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 smalltowngirl0
Joined: 6/13/2008
Msg: 26
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacyPage 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
good grief, get off the "poor me, i'm black" bandwagon.
 ejg701
Joined: 10/29/2010
Msg: 27
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 6:09:48 AM
Some people just don't get it. I understand that the folks flaming me think that I'm looking for pity, and complaining. I'm sorry, but that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm proud to be who, and what I am. Sure there are some things that need improvement, but that's not the point I was trying to discuss here. I thought I made it clear that all I was doing was stating statistical difficulty that men, especially Black men have ON THE INTERNET, and why! I think some people just sit at their computers with their flame throwers on "white hot," ready to pounce at a moments notice. What ever happened to intelligent discourse? For anyone else that wants to go on a tirade, I suggest you first read my second post. There I try to clarify what I'm try to discuss here. If you still don't get it, I suggest you go read, Understanding Context Before Jumping to Conclusions. Have a nice day.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 28
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 6:13:12 AM
I thought I made it clear that all I was doing was stating statistical difficulty that men, especially Black men have ON THE INTERNET, and why!


taking your statement purely at value, i cannot help but come to any other conclusion than "so fukking what". which is really not all that different from what i said before, minus the self-pity aspect.

you can't do anything about being black, and you can't do anything about the internet. it is what it is. who cares about the statistics? because that's just a general probability that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your personal, individual experience.

so where do the statistics of shy, black men on the internet leave you, with a shitty attitude about stuff you can't do anything about? "learned helplessness?"

your choice, man.

when people complain about stuff that is completely beyond their control, it looks for all the world like self-pity to most other folks. so you can't really blame us for your lack of communicating your thoughts more clearly, now can ya
 shakeitupbaby2012
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 29
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 7:08:59 AM

What ever happened to intelligent discourse?


Oh, it's alive and well, sometimes we just get off on tangents, OP. I'll give it a whirl- I'm in a bit of a reflective mood this morning.

I'm going to open up some discourse based on your second post and in regard to your profile.


I know the score. I know that in order to be successful in anything, you have to be confident in your abilities to achieve what you want. My confidence gets a "needs improvement," rating, that's why I got online in the first place. Truth be told, I went online to try to circumvent the prerequisite of developing confidence in order to be successful in dating. It actually had the opposite effect of bolstering some of the insecurities I had about my desirability. Maybe I could have made it more clear, but my concerns were directed at Internet dating only!


I feel that this is what people in this fora are openly sharing, with regard to internet dating--that it's a come-as-you-are situation, and we attract people who are within the frame of mind we are in at the time. Right now, it seems that you are in the frame of mind that emits both angst and disappointment with online dating; therefore, you will send out vibes of angst and disappointment/ frustration.
You have a tool at your disposal that will become what you choose to make of it. If you are, indeed, a positive person, simply make the decision to utilize this site in a positive manner...but let it be reflective of who you truly are.
One poster took the time to address your profile and stated what she felt could use some improving changes. You chose neither to address that or to apply the changes other than the photo you changes to as your main pic, which, btw, I was going to suggest yesterday- this is a great photo-too bad it can't be centered better or posted where it shows your guns- never hurts.


Online dating is all about snap judgment. You could have the best profile ever written, and send the most creative replies, but if she doesn't like the shirt you were wearing in your profile picture, because it was the one her ex was wearing when he told her he was doing her best friend, consider yourself deleted. There is no opportunity of "convince," someone that everything they though they knew about a certain person, or group of people is wrong. Boundaries, and prejudices still exist in out society. While I believe they are easy to overcome in person with they right mentality, they become virtually insurmountable Online. Most things in life aren't fair, and Online dating for men is no exception. SFW, get over it- I get it.


This is great! I see all of these as being positive points! I see you as being fortunate that your dating pool is already narrowed down to a chosen few-
Many of us are hit by a ton of messages- lots of people who, I feel ( based on my experience online) are randomly clicking on a photo looking for a response. Period.
While that's good that they have an initial attraction- so what? They look, sometimes send a message of no consequence and seemed POSITIONED to move along at the slightest drop of a hat.
Then along comes a guy who seems to have the attitude that we (used to?) carry in the real world, who stops by and says hello and has a nice persona, we have a nice chat, and there's a bit of interest. I'm just offering that we keep it in perspective, yet utilize what we have available here.


I think the moral of the story is, " it's unproductive to focus on the things you can't change. It creates the irrational impetus not to change because you have convinced yourself that there is nothing you can do about it."


I think it's more that you're being shown to alter what you're doing if it's not working.
Utilize what's available here--such as the forums, profile review, messaging people differently, engaging people in discussion, reading the threads, posting good, clear photos routinely, and getting a profile up that is VERY reflective of you. So you're discerning of who you date; you're a thinker and you tend to over analyze a bit; you're a positive person with an edge to it ( as in , frustrated for now)---this will all be reflected in your profile and I see that as a positive, as you will attract people to who you truly are. As you evolve in your thoughts and in your personal growth, it's imperative to rewrite your profile to reflect who you are becoming.

These comments are all in regard to online dating. I think it's also important to keep it in the real world as well to maintain perspective.

Now then, in regard to your profile- the points the lady made in the prior post had good merit. Best wishes in your journey.
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 30
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 9:24:55 AM
OP...you cannot change your skin color, or the way that may be percieved...but you alone are in control of your actions and personality.

If shyness is an issue, join a toastmasters club, volunteer...get out and practice those social skills. No one can help you, if you dont help yourself.
 SouthBayNative
Joined: 10/15/2010
Msg: 31
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 2:21:36 PM
Blah, blah, blah. Spend some time on here and you'll find plenty of whining about why people can't get dates. It gets old and tired and blaming it on your race is the oldest, tiredest one of all.
 BoonDockSaint73
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 32
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 3:11:36 PM
OP- I really don't see what the problem is...although I can surmise...

You are a black man and by the looks of it- you seem to have your shtuff together....

You are at some level sabotaging yourself.

A black man that has his stuff together is a man in HIGH demand....

All the black women will want you.
White women will want you.

An old college roommate of mine was/is in a similar situation as you. a few years older than you, but still in a very similar situation...

He was a bit shy with women and he always seemed to have issues with getting women. It was very odd to me, especially when he was in his 30s and had a good job.

Women should have been knocking the door down to get with him/you...especially black women.

But he was his own enemy...

He had NO clue how to get women and he refused to learn and take advice....

It turned women off and he is 38 and still not married.


Go learn how to use your shyness to your advantage.

You should be able to get a gorgeous, gorgeous black woman....and she will be happy to be with you.

Demographics alone support this...
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 33
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 4:09:02 PM
^^^^
A good point about being your own worst enemy.
If we don't know ourselves...how we seem to others...and what type we're seeking...
then we're in for alot of anguish.
When young, we know none of these things and unless lucky, learn em painfully over time.

For the OP and all disinterested bystanders the thing to key on is what type of personality can jive with yours. If you want to niche date,(to borrow Ablion's term) without knowing that, you'll just get rejected by a whole different set of people than you normally would.

If you want to date a person of a different race, fine.
But find someone compatible to your personality type instead of just hitting on everyone
you see in that niche. When you can do that, you'll get the responses you want.

Personality types are your keys to success.
What type are you?
What type interacts well with yours?
How do you recognize that type in a million profiles?

As for me I look at a woman's eyes.
Open, laughing eyes tend to reply to my emails and are easier to deal with in general.
Not because those eyes are superior to others.
But because those eyes seem to reflect a personality compatible to my own.
So we understand each other innately.

Now the opposite, serious eyes can be major attractive.
You've seen those eyes. Tend to belong to Supermodels and women in sales.
They look directly at you and thru you.
They have power and substance and are just sexy as hell.
but not a type that will jive with me.
While I may charm a girl with laughing eyes, I'd annoy a girl with serious eyes.
Why go there? Laughing eyes are plenty cute.
I'm not missing out.

So instead of generically seeing all women in a particular niche as the same,
concentrate on those with eyes(personality) that will respond to yours.
Can't tell you what eyes you should look for.
I don't know you.
But if you sortof think along those lines you'll figure it out.

Since I did, Most emails are read. of those, most answered.
I don't have the problem alot in here complain of.
Figured I help yall out with that tidbit.

good luck all.
 sweetlikesugarcane
Joined: 5/16/2009
Msg: 34
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 4:50:13 PM
OP,

You just want to complain. People are telling you what is wrong with your post and you say that you are being flamed.

I tell you what is wrong with your profile and why you are not getting dates (no degree, super hero, homophobic comment) and instead of saying thank you and acknowledging that you may be looking at women outside of your league, you ignore my recommendation for a profile review....

I don't think there is any hope.
 BoonDockSaint73
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 35
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 5:02:45 PM

you may be looking at women outside of your league,


sweetsugarcane...

well, with his game- most women are out of his league...

that being said, no woman is out of virtually any man's league as long as he knows how to be a man and work his words...

but ya- the friend I mentioned, he was determined to find and marry his Halle Berry...

and he was too closed off and snooty to go and find and marry a young beauty from the Islands...and give her a green card...that way he could have his Halle Berry.


Some folks resist any and all forms of legitmate advice...when it comes to the other sex.

And yet they are quite fine with carrying on as a martyr...


Some with the belief that they will wait for "the ONE" who will make their lives complete...

Its an ok thought when you're 19 or so...but when you're in your 30s...
 sweetlikesugarcane
Joined: 5/16/2009
Msg: 36
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 5:04:37 PM
Hmmm

Are you suggesting that he could get a pretty Caribbean girl by offering her US citizenship?
 jezebellpgh
Joined: 2/3/2010
Msg: 37
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 5:23:54 PM
Rush:

It might be your new game society just not mine. I don't chase men.
 BoonDockSaint73
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 38
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 5:26:41 PM

Are you suggesting that he could get a pretty Caribbean girl by offering her US citizenship?


not many women that can compare....don't you think?

of course, I've heard of some men that marry girls for such typically do terrible with the woman once she gets with them....simply because most of these men do not understand women....

The ones that do well with these women- understand women.


Where does he fall?
 BoonDockSaint73
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 39
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 6:03:21 PM

Boondocks, like I told the OP, I think it's about Marketing. NOBODY has the corner on "all the black women", or all of any other ethnicity for that matter.

That's why I'm not running down the man down. For all the beating he's taking on this thread, there is a kernel of truth in the concepts he speaks about. Maybe I wouldn't phrase it the way he did, or express it the way he does, but since I've yet to meet a "perfect" person on this website, or anywhere else, I'm not gonna flame him.

There's enough out there about single Black men, masculinity, sexuality, stereotypes, identity and relationships out there to just totally dismiss what he's basically saying. You also can't apply the male logic "women should want" line on Plenty of Fish to ANY thread, so why would that work in this case?

I just don't think it's as big a deal as he makes it, given the rest of the issues in our society. My main problem with the OP is that by his own words there ARE women who are attracted to him, but they're dismissed for one reason or another. That means that the celibacy OP claims to be doomed to is voluntary--not forced.


True, noone has the "corner" as you say on black women- however I do believe that given the demographics of his age group and ethnicity that he is in high demand based on the amount of available black women stateside.

Rules are very different from what I can tell for black women than say, white or latin women. If you find a white or latin women in her early 30s, having never been married- one automatically can begin to question why? Is there something that all the other men who have dated her found out about, which is why she has not married?

Different for black women in her early 30s having never married and I am sure you understand this however unfortunate it is.

That being said, I have no desire to beat him up at all- nor the old college roommate I mentioned previously in this thread.

My main contention is that he, as a black man who likely has his life squared away should have ample opportunities to find available, attractive quality black women.


I'm one that believes for myself- that dating and relationships, etc is an evolving, ever-learning process.

If what I am doing is not working, with more than 1, 2, 3 women or more- then I need to find out what I am doing "wrong" or "incorrectly" which is keeping me from the success which I seek.

I think the OP should as well.

Is that not fair?
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 40
view profile
History
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 8:44:04 PM
You are meeting women.......you just haven't met this perfect fantasy image you have in your head.


My friends say I'm picky- so if picky means being only interested in emotionally stable, baggage free, height-weight proportionate, open-minded women with a sense of humor, and the ability to have intelligent discourse, I guess I'm picky.



I know I'm desirable, don't need validation of that, but I can recall countless situations where attractive women out and about have given me the come on.



The women that do approach me overtly... Let's just say that they represent a class of women that doesn't appeal to me in the slightest- pretty much a polar opposite of the aforementioned traits


This isn't a "Shy Black Man" issue.........this is a personal choice to only date this
perfect image you have created.
 BoonDockSaint73
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 41
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 8:51:48 PM
I cannot speak for you or the OP- however, in the example of my old roommate and friend- I would think this is part of his problem.

He grew up in middle upper class America and he's a fairly sensitive guy. Clearly there were very few black girls in his neighborhood where he grew up and thus the schools he attended.

His first of college, he attended an African American college and he told me he felt sorely out of place. I am sure it was a culture shock for him.

I would gather there is a lot to be said for that, actually.

Perhaps that has a good deal to do with things, at least with him. The demographic disparity of finding "educated", successful black women (from what I understand there more young black women in this category than their male couterparts) versus just finding a black woman who is not is likely more significant than the mere "numbers" show.

Maybe at that level, regardless of the numbers, the women he considers to be in his dating pool are a bit more even.

I would gather then that he would need to be more creative and open to dating all black women available to him, rather than narrowing his criteria too much.

Add on top of that, when black ladies in that same group are opening themselves up to white men as well, I am sure that heightens the frustrations.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 42
view profile
History
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/11/2010 9:40:11 PM
ejg,
I understand all the factors you mentioned. Maybe some or all of them are true--I don't know. But it's obvious you've thought pretty carefully about them.

Here's some food for thought, though: could your preoccupation with all the things that seem to weigh against you be just another side of being shy? If things are really that grim, it's almost futile for you to approach women you're attracted to. But isn't it convenient that the more convincing your evidence that's true, the better excuse you have not to approach them?

I wonder about this because if you were hitting, you wouldn't care how difficult it was. I'm pretty sure that if things magically turned around for you tomorrow, you wouldn't even give a thought to all the obstacles.

Don't beat yourself up for not being on top of your game all the time. No one is. And don't listen to people who want to have fun at your expense--they may not be so great themselves.

A lot more has been learned about shyness/"social phobia" during the past 20 years or so than ever before. Just determine to overcome it, do some research and draw up a plan, and then start.

As you get better at approaching and talking with attractive women, you'll still have some butterflies, but it will seem less and less like an ordeal. And after you succeed a couple times, you'll find you won't much care how the deck's stacked against you.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 43
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/12/2010 4:52:30 AM

What ever happened to intelligent discourse? For anyone else that wants to go on a tirade, I suggest you first read my second post. There I try to clarify what I'm try to discuss here. If you still don't get it, I suggest you go read, Understanding Context Before Jumping to Conclusions. Have a nice day.


Ever hear of "whoa is me"???????? When you walk around talking of the negatives,,,or "losing",,,,,,you will. Doesn't matter the colour of your skin,,,it's YOUR thought process. "Finding" or "using" stats to "prove" you theory of your troubles makes you look even more negative. Anybody can find reasons for situations in their lives. I tend to define them as "excuses". The first thing you should do is try and stop that process of YOURS.
My second thought would be learn to try and "attract" those that you want. Reading your words, I honestly don't know of any human(male or female) that would be "attracted" to you as a "person". You say you are "not whining",,,but it comes across as you are. Some of the "succesful" members of the African American community have pointed out this failure in the community ITSELF. If you are "depending" for certain people to change their thoughts and beliefs by themselves,you will be standing on the sidelines forever. It maybe "unfair" in your eyes,,,but hey,,,welcome to the real world!!!!!! Life can be unfair to all of us at some point in our lives. It won't change unless you want it to.
Good luck.
 nated012
Joined: 10/29/2010
Msg: 44
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/12/2010 5:57:14 AM
I could completely see how this site would suck for black guys.
I like dating black women and there simply is not that many black women on here at least where I am at. Also, half of them I've talked to straight up said they only date white guys.
 nated012
Joined: 10/29/2010
Msg: 45
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/12/2010 5:58:24 AM
Also , I'm sure this thread will get the moron women coming out of the woodwork saying "WELL I DON"T CARE ABOUT RACE"...as if that has anything to do with the average woman on here.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 46
view profile
History
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/12/2010 6:52:14 AM
Ya'll do realize POF isn't the only dating site around, right?!!!
There are numerous sites geared towards the African/Americans.
And just as many for whites that want to date blacks and vice versa.
Guess it's easier to sit here and complain then actually do some research
and go for what you want
 1eastshore
Joined: 11/3/2010
Msg: 47
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/12/2010 8:06:30 AM
Don't worry about the people that may not date you due to race. Obviously a person can't change their race. ( Unless they are Michael Jackson. LOL. ) But the OP can focus on the things he can control. Such as his attitude, personality etc. Also the OP stated that he has rejected pretty much all of the women that were interested in him. Of course people have allowed to have any requirements they wish. However when people are complaining about not getting dates, perhaps they should re-examine and make some adjustments to these requirements.
 BoonDockSaint73
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 48
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/12/2010 9:56:45 AM
amboy....

Well what type of black men are these black women looking for? Celebrity types? Rich, super successful, upper class types? athletes?

Do you think that because they feel they have made it to a certain level that they are setting their sites even higher? Maybe they feel they are so exceptional that in fact - they believe they are in demand by the "best" or at least the perception of who they think is the best?


I believe earlier I mentioned getting creative about dating, etc...

I could see how you, the OP, my friend, and many other black men of the same are wanting to attract a certain "type" of black woman...however- I would have to believe there are many of these women who have not necessarily attained that "status" level yet.

Education and a good job does not equal quality.

I would have to believe there are plenty of young women in the "lower" classes that just need the chance to 'rise' up to a guy like you guys. Most likely she'll be much younger and the key I would guess would be that she comes from a good family. A family that has and teaches their children character, integrity, self respect, etc.

Perhaps a black girl such as this just hasn't had the opportunities to rise up from her surroundings as of yet. Maybe she feels like all she has around her is guys who she has no desire to be with.

Do you know anyone in your extended family and friends who could search out and find such women?

It might be a situation that is sorta similar to an "arranged" type of marriage/relationship kind of thing- however if things are frustrating on both sides- once you know the family and the reputation of the girls in that family, that could help eliminate things or at least reduce the frustration of things....

It seems since there is a polarization a bit in your culture, at least in the dating world in trying to give 2 people with similar goals and desires for life to even get an opportunity to meet face to face even...

And with you being up in NJ- have you ever oppened yourself up to the idea of meeting/marrying some beautiful, quality black women from Trinidad, Colombia and the Dominican Republic and some of the other Carribean Islands? There should be plenty of women from these countries who have emmigrated to NYC....

Women from Angola, Nigeria and other African countries as well.

These women and their culture is quite a bit different than the African American culture.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 49
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/12/2010 4:59:15 PM

The common stereotype or perception of Black male sexuality doesn't have anything to do with "shyness", "intelligence", or "productive citizenship." That's not a complaint or whine. That's a reality check.


Okay,,,since I am one to wonder,,,and find out things,,,,,what IS the "common sterotypical or perception" of a Black male's sexuality???????

After ya answer,,,,I'm going to leave it up to you,,,as a "Black male" to go out and change it,,,,cause ya know,,,us "other" guys can't do it for ya. Just like you can't change the "sterotypical peception" of us drunk Irishmen. Ya know what I mean?????
 shakeitupbaby2012
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 50
Shy Black men doomed to forced celibacy
Posted: 11/12/2010 6:53:47 PM

life is too darn short.


Amen and pass the biscuits. The large ones.

Life IS too short to worry about things such as this.
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