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 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 32
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.Page 2 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)
What about if he makes the decision to convert?

By convert, do you mean decide to go along with the religious thing for the sake of getting married even though he still doesn't believe in god? I suppose that's ok as long as no one minds that being nothing but a facade.

I see people converting all the time for love. married even

Unless you really think someone can decide to believe in god or a different god on a whim, then the only conversion you see is a conversion to expediency. Sure, that's fine if that works for them, but it rather silly to get him to go through the motions when nothing has really changed.

It's the same thing as when someone says " I love you" for the first time in a relationship. If they don't get " I love you too" back in return, there is a huge cloud now hovering over that relationship. That relationship, no matter how solid before, is now on VERY shaky ground.

Wow. I must be living on another planet, because not only have I managed to not say ``I love you'' right away in return, I've managed to make that a plus by responding in such a way that women have felt like when I did say it later, that I really meant it instead of just echoing the words back. I'm sure those women would have liked to hear me say it right away, but on the other hand, I think it meant more when I said without being put on the spot.

Your scenario shouldn't/wouldn't have happened if either party had any convictions of the own beliefs. I'm talking BOTH of them. No "true" atheist would hang with a Christian, and it goes the other way also.

Eh? I'm about as athiest as athiest gets, but I don't really care what other people believe, no matter how silly I think it is. I've had some good friends who were jesuit priests even though I consider believing in a god of any sort to be no more rational than believing in the tooth fairy.
 scottey63
Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 33
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History
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 2:21:56 PM
A christian should realize that converting to Christianity strictly in order to get married or for any other reason for the sake of another person is a poor reason to convert to Christianity. If it's not in the non-believer's heart, it will only be a charade.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 34
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Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 2:28:04 PM
Where in the Bible does it forbid sex before marriage? The Old Testament sanctions concubines. That's sex outside of marriage.

It's a ridiculous demand and I wouldn't be able to give in to it. After all, you can't "decide" to believe in something you don't believe in. What if my intended wanted me to believe in the Easter Bunny? How can I make myself believe in something I know is not real? Okay, so she's going to insist that obviously the Easter Bunny is not real and her God is. But where is the evidence for that? People always believe their God (or Gods) is/are real and the others are false. What if she were required to believe in Krisha? At least if she is Christian, Jews and Moslems believe in the same God. It's a matter of culture, different ritual. But she's asking him to believe in something he does not believe in. You can't make someone do that. It doesn't work.

When I was growing up Catholic, if you married a non-Catholic and wanted to be married in the Church, the non-Catholic spouse was required to agree to raise the children Catholic. That's doable. You didn't have to believe, you had to agree to perform certain functions.

My mother-in-law "converted" to Judaism to appease her husband's family. Curiously, the conversion did not require her to actually believe anything, only to agree to keep the Mosaic laws. (And since she converted to reform Judaism, the interpretation of what that was was pretty loose.)

They knew from in front this would be a problem. What did they expect? If religion, or lack of it, is that important, they should have figured this out a long time ago.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 35
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Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 2:57:16 PM

It's the problem with believers(including "atheists",,,especially those that enjoy this time of the year,,,but yeah,,,they don't believe...


I get rather sick of this, as though Christians have a title to the season, as though there are no other reasons for anyone to celebrate at this time of the year. What a load of uneducated crap. Personally I love Santa Claus and the whole idea of giving and presents and dressing up a tree with lights and other pretty baubles. What, I don't believe in a walking-on-water snake oil salesman so I can't love and participate in the holiday season? Who the hell gave December to Christians? Pagans, witches, Jews, many others have celebrated their beliefs in December. I can be an atheist, which I am, and have a grand time in December giving presents and having family around and thinking that the idea that Santa will remember to bring us fun and happiness. I make it a point to make sure some poorer than me get to join in too, Christians also don't hold the title to charity and goodness in people. Just because I don't believe in some supernatural entity doesn't mean I don't have just as much right to have a reason for the season as the next person.
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 36
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History
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 3:03:31 PM

For those who are religious, is there a heaven and hell for animals?

OT, i know, but i hadda respond to this. there's actually a company out there selling 'rapture' insurance for christians' pets. how it works is you pay a premium so that when jesus comes to take you away to heaven, someone will look after your pets. so there are christians who believe there is no heaven or hell for pets, or at least they can't take fluffy and fido with them onto jesus' bus. absolutely brilliant scam, and of course there's no way the courts could do anything about it because they'd have to rule scripture is fraudulent. which it is, of course, but ain't never gonna happen here.

eternal-earthbound-pets.com/Home_Page.html
 *topchef*
Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 38
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 3:07:40 PM
What is more important? The label (Christian) or the actual behavior???? Surely she hasnt been with this guy for so long and not valued his ethics and morals. So he needs to label himself a Christian and all is well in her world. Such nonsense. He would be better off finding someone that was more open minded and lived the values instead of just preaching them.
 AintNoDeal
Joined: 2/3/2010
Msg: 39
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 3:20:29 PM

WIP: Since marriage is such a scary thing, he can take his proposal off the table and continue the relationship. Everyone should win.


You said that so nicely -- I would simply say that he should continue to fcuk her over and over and over again like he's been doing. It's a time-tested technique that has worked for pretty much every religion and every class and race of people on Earth. Just keep screwing until the shotguns and chains come out and you HAVE to get married or executed. In this event, HE WINS by not having to convert and getting his marriage in the long run. In the mean time, he gets to live the way he wants, and the way she IMPLICITLY accepted by screwing around with him to begin with. If she's THAT into him, she'll pop out a few kids before giving up on converting him.

There's no argument with success.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 40
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 3:41:13 PM
There's another issue not mentioned if they go the distance, make some sort of compromise with the religious issue and start making wedding plans. Almost all Christians want a church wedding and married by a priest/minister. Would the guy be OK with that-having the marriage at church and sanctioned by God? If they end up having kids, would the guy be OK if the wife wants their kid(s) to be baptized and raised in the Christian faith and have them attend church every week?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 41
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History
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 3:55:47 PM
Fair? Sure. Rational? No way.
One cannot DECIDE to believe (or not to believe) in God, any more than one can DECIDE to become gay, or straight. You can decide only to PRETEND to believe. That she would ask him to do so suggests that she hasn't thought things through at all.
As for your mention that "the bible does not believe in sex before marriage," I would dispute that, both scholastically, and grammatically.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 42
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 3:57:16 PM
Is this a fair demand on her part? What would you do if you were in his situation?.

Its as fair as my solution
He needs to demand that if they marry they dont have kids.
If either wants kids they will just have to find someone else on the side to have and raise them with

Actually on second thoughts
My solution is fairer
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 43
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 4:05:21 PM
The Bible does NOT believe in sex before marriage. However, I believe in sex before marriage.

I cannot marry a man without test driving him first.

Also, how much of a Christian can said girl be? There aren't any such thing as real Christians.
 U make it entertaining
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 44
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 4:13:53 PM

As for your mention that "the bible does not believe in sex before marriage," I would dispute that, both scholastically, and grammatically.


My first father-in-law was a Lutheran minister and I questioned him about the "sex before marriage" topic.
(As I was sleeping with his son). His faith stated that providing you were betrothed, then it was ok. They believed the betrothal to be more important then the ceremony.

Now that is the Lutheran rendition, as per ONE of their ministers. What is the scoop with the other religions? Each one has a different story. So again I believe religion to be flawed. Religion is man made, suited to whatever was happening at that time in history and to benefit them, whether financially or put them higher on the totem pole. Sort of like the telephone game you played in kindergarten. One whispers a story in your ear, you whisper it in the next ear, and so on and so on. By the time it gets back to you, it is no where near close to what the original story was. That is what happened to religion.

However, do I believe in a God? Well that is another story. Let me whisper that in your ear.
 *topchef*
Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 45
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 4:21:50 PM
If god didnt want humans to have sex he wouldnt have made our bits fit together so perfectly or made it feel so good. The bible was written by men, not by god. Whatever ancient scriptures the KJ's bible was based on that advocated abstinence from sex, has clearly been lost in translation.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 46
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Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 4:47:31 PM

http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/Home_Page.html


Hilarious! And obviously pretty tongue-in-cheek. Wonder how many "takers" they have?

"You've committed your life to Jesus. You know you're saved. But when the Rapture comes what's to become of your loving pets who are left behind? Eternal Earth-Bound Pets takes that burden off your mind.

We are a group of dedicated animal lovers, and atheists. Each
Eternal Earth-Bound Pet representative is a confirmed atheist, and as such will still be here on Earth after you've received your reward. Our network of animal activists are committed to step in when you step up to Jesus.

We are currently active in 24 states. Our representatives have been screened to ensure that they are atheists, animal lovers, are moral / ethical with no criminal background, have the ability and desire to rescue your pet and the means to retrieve them and ensure their care for your pet's natural life.

We currently cover the following states:
Maine,New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, North Carolina, Georgia, Alabama and Ohio.

Our service is plain and simple; our fee structure is reasonable.
For $110.00 we will guarantee that should the Rapture occur within ten (10) years of receipt of payment, one pet per residence will be saved. Each additional pet at your residence will be saved for an additional $15.00 fee. A small price to pay for your peace of mind and the health and safety of your four legged and feathered friends.

Unfortunately at this time we are not equipped to accommodate all species and must limit our services to dogs, cats, birds, rabbits, and small caged mammals. [Please note: we can now offer rescue services for horses, camels, llamas and donkeys in NH,VT, ID and MT ]

Thank you for your interest in Eternal Earth-Bound Pets. We hope we can help provide you with peace of mind. "
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 47
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History
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 5:48:49 PM

Where in the Bible does it forbid sex before marriage?


Does the word fornication ring a bell?

(1 Corinthians 6:18-20)

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

(Galatians 5:19-21)

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

(1 Thessalonians 4:3)

For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication"

(1 Corinthians 7:1-2)

"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."


^^^^^ So, in Genesis God tells us to increase and multiply, but Paul says that a man should not touch a woman. Which is it? God or Paul? Who has more authority? Do *you* believe what Paul said, that it's better not to marry at all? If so, isn't this directly contradicting God's commandment to increase an multiply? Which is it?

There are O.T. restrictions against men having sex with *married* women or women "belonging" to another man (i.e. their female slaves or concubines). In the New Testament, both Paul and Timothy go so far as to advise against even married sex. Go figger. The verses you quote do not spell out what is "fornication" and completely contradict many other places where concubines (women with whom men had sex who are not their wives) are mentioned and obviously condoned. Solomon, for instance, had (according to the Bible) 700 wives and 300 concubines. God rebukes him not for having concubines but for having concubines that were non-Hebrews who worshiped other gods. There are many places in Mosaic law that spell out that the restriction is against a man having sex with a woman who belongs to another man, not against having sex with an unmarried woman to whom he is not married.

Do you also condone stoning to death? That's in the Bible. Slavery? How about killing all the men when you invade a country but allowing the men to take the women for themselves?

"And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." -- Numbers 31:15-18

Divorce and remarriage is considered adultery so, since you are divorced, I hope you are ready to be celibate for the rest of your life.
Luke 16:18 ESV “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."

Buying and owning slaves is condoned. Most concubines were, in fact, slaves who were required to have sex with their owners, whether they wanted to or not.
Leviticus 25:44-46 "As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly."

Those who love to quote the Bible are selective and conveniently ignore that which is so obviously contradictory and immoral. If you're going to accept the Bible as a source of authority, then you can't pick and choose. You're going to have to accept it in its entirety. And there's some pretty unsavory stuff there.


God created sex as a form to celebrate love, and I do firmly believe that, as such, it's ok with him. For the Bible has a number of books agreed across denominations, which include two whole books about love stories and romance (Esther and Ruth) and another whole book about sex (Song of songs, or Song of Solomon).


Actually, a number of Protestant faiths do not accept the Song of Solomon as part of the Old Testament. As for God creating sex as a form to celebrate love, it seems that Genesis makes it clear that it's for procreation. It commands us to "increase and multiply" and mentions nothing about love.
 U make it entertaining
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 48
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 5:53:32 PM

God created sex as a form to celebrate love, and I do firmly believe that, as such, it's ok with him. For the Bible has a number of books agreed across denominations, which include two whole books about love stories and romance (Esther and Ruth) and another whole book about sex (Song of songs, or Song of Solomon).


I also remember having to read a story (from the old testament) to my son when he was in confirmation class, about 2 daughters who got their father drunk so they could have sex with him (in order to keep their race going) ... WTF!

Had a hard time explaining that one to him, very controversial!

The bible (at times) is a beautiful story book, but that is all it is. Times have changed, and so should religion. In fact I believe it is, look at all the churches that are struggling to maintain their following.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 50
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 5:57:24 PM
I don't think it is for the simple reason that even if he was to become Catholic, it would only be on paper with no profound belief. If she is okay with that then, why not jump through the religious hoops and become a Catholic... on paper?
 blindfish
Joined: 11/16/2007
Msg: 51
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 6:44:38 PM
How did this question get the attention it did? Oh, right, it involves religion.

The moment she asked him to change who he was, the relationship began to circle the drain. Even if he converted it would not be real. This is not a "you need to stop picking your nose", this is a "you need to change a fundamental part of who you are."

This is game-playing at its finest, and someone who plays games like this is not worth anyone's time.
 U make it entertaining
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 52
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/12/2010 6:48:03 PM
Gotta admit, TDH9 does start some interesting threads eh?

Where else can we b1itch about stuff?

OK, round of drinks for everyone!
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 54
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History
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/13/2010 3:58:03 AM
So, the atheist is good enough to have sex with, but not good enough to marry ?
Actually, I think most atheists wouldn't mind that.

If he's really an atheist, I don't see how he's put up with her all this time.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 56
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/13/2010 6:44:31 AM

If we pick what we are told about how we should live, that is still very current.

If you pick and choose the principles you like, then your belief is meaningless. Real principles always have a cost.
 moonwalkerman
Joined: 2/19/2008
Msg: 57
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/13/2010 6:52:38 AM
I can add something from my own experience. I once had a girlfriend of whom I knew pretty fast that she was religious. She did not make a point of it in the beginning, and sex was not a problem at all. I met her parents and really really got along well with them. Being an atheist myself, I found it kind of cute that they would pray before dinner and thank God for all the good stuff. We never argued about it either. I am not sure if her parents knew that I was a non-believer. They knew I was German, and that didn't seem to bother them (and yes, two of my family members, from very long ago, were Nazi soldiers, hey, but they vanished somewhere near Stalingrad). All they ever said to her was that it didn't really matter to them whom she brought home, as long as it wasn't a black guy. That really DID seem to bother them. We are talking about the Southern US here...
Until that one day later in the relationship when I played my favourite Iron Maiden song, The Number of the Beast, in the car, and she totally freaked out. From then on, she occasionally mentioned that she wanted to send me bible verses, which I really vehemently opposed. Well, we didn't get married. Thinking about it in retrospective, I think it was the dealbreaker.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 58
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History
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/13/2010 7:04:14 AM
Apparently who she fools around with as a single woman has absolutely nothing to do with who she wants to marry and raise children with, I certainly did not consider many of the guys I dated husband material.
She is not going to change her beliefs for him so the question becomes, What the hell was he thinking? Did the Atheist really think this girl would not be raising her children in the church? did he believe she was more than willing to go against her core beliefs and those of her entire family for him?
Was he really willing to keep his mouth shut and allow her to get the kids baptised, sit through Bible school and get dressed in their finest every Sunday?
It appears to me that he did not put a whole lot of thought into the proposal. A leopard doe not change its spots.
 I-am-Rei
Joined: 9/11/2009
Msg: 60
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/13/2010 8:34:15 AM
I wonder why there's a debate about this? The guy asked the woman to marry him. So? Marriage is not only a religious rite. It is also a civil rites. Why can't they have a civil marriage instead? Anyways OP had claimed they were having sex before marriage therefore it belies the label devout Christian. Therefore again, asking the guy to convert is full hypocrisy when she's already living unchristianly.

Atheist? Really? Throw them a dead rat and they will exclaimed "OMG".

 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 61
Christian girl refuses to marry her Athiest b/f unless he converts to Christianity.
Posted: 12/13/2010 9:56:27 AM
^^^Pointing out the obvious? As I pointed out earlier, devout Christians wouldn't be caught dead with Atheist. After all, they follow Christs' every move, or supposedly.

Religion is full of hypocrisy, and is one of the main reasons why I don't associate myself with religious organizations.
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