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 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 66
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Dec 25th new Son or new Sun Page 3 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
He deals with the "hands-off" delinquent dude quite hilariously. His gospel is every bit as relevant as most of the others. Steve..aka Swami Beyondananda, also covers this space.
http://www.wakeuplaughing.com/
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 68
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/3/2011 3:03:53 PM

Gregorius's reform moved the calendar back to where it was in Roman times, and reduced the rate of the calendar's steady longterm drift from that position.


I didn't know that--so I did a bit of research! (Not that wikipedia is a great source, but it is quick.)

I found:


The fact that we use the same month names as the Romans encourages us to assume that a Roman date occurred on the same Julian date as its modern equivalent. This assumption is not correct.


How does that affect the lining up of the solstice with ancient calendar dates?

 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 73
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/5/2011 5:03:47 PM

Most human cultures have gone through similar developmental paths, so it only stands to reason that the heritage of cultural development of each nation left the same stamps of important lessons to preserve, in its stories of deital and religious mythologies.



I think this is what Gwndln was trying to tell to K, but she was for some reason or another tongue-tied about it.


This is a forum on Dec. 25 and why Jesus was assigned the birthdate. I didn't realize it would turn into a forum concerning archetypal myth, but I am not tongue-tied.

Jung, of course, said the existence of archetypal myth is ingrained in our subconscious--collectively and personally. They are the result of repeated acts and experiences of our earliest ancestors.

The dispersion or diffusion theory says that there was a central culture with certain beliefs. As the people from this culture migrated over the globe, they took their beliefs with them. As time passed and more distance was put between the immigrants and their core society, the essence of the myths remained the same.

There are other theories, as well, at least for visual symbols such as the swastika and pentagram. The swastika might be a representation of a type of comet seen worldwide.

Maybe it is all three.

I tend more toward the dispersion theory, but where was this culture located? I like Jung's theory, and it might have some validity as evidenced by dreams: we have the same types of dreams--flying, being caught naked in public, etc. Why are some dreams so widely experienced? Dreaming is not a learned behavior; we personalize our dreams, but why the similar ones?

There is much, much more to be said on the topic, but it takes forever to type information and give enough detail for everyone to understand.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 75
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/5/2011 8:04:23 PM

The ingredients missing from certain cultures are a key to understanding that not all cultures are the same, in their mythological development. Or maybe some lost part of their teachings -- hard to believe, but hey, it's possible.


By no means have I studied every mythos of every culture, but the commonalities of certain myths are undeniable--even given the differences in the myths and the cultures.

For example, creation myths--from Egypt to preColumbian America to Africa, they have the same elements: darkness, a void, an abyss, nothingness, chaos, or as the Norse put it, the "grinning gap" or Ginnungagap. The first being arises from the abyss and creates the universe, instilling order. The tales often contain one or several other aspects such as the cosmic or universal egg, a snake/serpent, a world tree, and the separation of the earth and heavens/firmaments. Humans are most often made from clay.

The myths vary according to the culture and geography. Ginnungagap has fire on one side and ice on the other: volcanoes and glaciers. Sometimes the first being is hermaphroditic, sometimes it is female, and with the advent of the patriarchies, it is male. The development of myth in cultures is not as different as one might think.


I never dreamt being caught naked or catching someone naked.


Being naked in public in a dream is usually interpreted as the fear of being caught unawares or exposed. For some, it is a true nightmare, but for anyone who can have this type of dream and it isn't a nightmare, it means that they have learned to deal with the fear.

Dreams of flying are quite common, and they can take the same format. I was surprised once to read about the commonalities of some flying dreams because I had a flying dream that, apparently, others had shared the facets.

The dream of falling is also quite common, but I am not sure if that is not prompted by a physiological reaction.

Our dreams are sometimes personal myths; I have a recurring wave dream (Tolkien and Jung both had at least one wave dream) that has taken many different scenarios, but there is always a wave/water and the danger of being engulfed. While the wave dream is shared by others, it is personalized by each person.

Other dreams are flotsam and jetsam from the day.

I used to do meditations that would veer from my guidance and go in a direction of their own. As I was surprised about the wave dream, I was also surprised to read something Jung wrote--I don't remember in which of his writings I found it, but the steps he outlined for the dream or "waking" dream paralleled one of my own so closely, it was spooky.

I call them archetypes--other people can call them what they will, but they do exist.

Even if you haven't had one!
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 80
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History
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/8/2011 7:50:48 PM
Jesus, Horus, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra, et all... Sun Set...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9f0XU_S78&feature=related
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 81
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/8/2011 8:31:25 PM

Jesus, Horus, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra, et all... Sun Set...


Gasp! Someone brought the thread back on topic! (Grin.)
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 83
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/9/2011 5:37:55 AM

one thing im not understanding about the video it states that on December 22,23,24 when the sun appears to stop in its decent south that it resides in the vacinity of the Crux constellation or Southern cross


Yeah, that one gave me pause as well. I think, while the presenter is making some valid points, I think he's stretching it quite a bit for the sake of the win.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 85
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/9/2011 6:37:05 AM

but would the precession of the equinox alter the observed path of the sun through the constellations ? would there be a period of time in the last 26.000 yrs when crux and other constellation would of been in the suns yearly observed path ?


Only in the timings and the height we see constellations in the sky from any particular location on Earth. For instance, 10,000 years ago, several of the southern sky constellations that are invisible in our sky now would be visible above the southern horizon. Meanwhile, some circumpolar constellations would actually set, etc.

I ran a simulation similar to the one you did with astronomy software and, in 2000 BC, the sun was in Capricornus during the winter solstice but, by 11 AD, was closer to Sagittarius. Nowadays, it's closer to Scorpius.

For the actual paths of the planets against the background constellations to change, Earth's orbit inclination or the entire sun's rotation axis would have to change drastically. Since that's not likely to happen without major disruption to...well...everything, it's not going to be a factor.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 86
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/9/2011 7:17:43 AM

Yeah, that one gave me pause as well. I think, while the presenter is making some valid points, I think he's stretching it quite a bit for the sake of the win.


I have seen this video in the past and didn't watch all of it again, though I might later. I don't track the stars, so I don't know about the constellations.

However, when I saw the video, I thought at that time it made some points for the "win" that might not jibe with the "facts."

Damn. Now I will have to watch it to remember what they were.

Regardless, the birth of Jesus was deliberately placed to coincide with the birth of Mithras and other sun deities. Jesus is one more dying and resurrected god in a long line of dying and resurrected gods and goddesses.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 88
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/9/2011 11:54:10 AM

i heard they were called Celtic crosses and the circle merely represents eternity is this true ?


Circles are generally symbols for eternity, as is the figure 8, particularly when it is on its side. A pentagram becomes a pentacle when placed inside a circle--representing the five elements and eternity.

Maybe the maker of the video had inaccurate information and didn't know it.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 90
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History
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/10/2011 4:12:29 AM
I start celebrating the solsice on December 11th lately. During the darkest time of the year, I still strive to make it home to watch the sunset as part of my seasonal affective therapy. On Decemeber 10th, the sun sets at 5:29 here. On the 11th, it sets at 5:30 and continues to lengthen from there, even as sunrises come later till the solstice. One gets desparate to celebrate the littlest glimmers of hope in the winters.

The Cross, aka the four directions, have long been around well before christian mythology and independent of that mythology concurrent on different continents. It's just another symbol co-opted for the cause.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 91
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 2/10/2011 8:46:49 AM

The initial topic was the relation between the solstice and Christmas. Therefore, discussion of when the solstice is, and when it was in former millenia, is relevant to this thread's topic.


Considering that the rebirth of the sun god is in the general time frame of the winter solstice, does it matter to nitpick over the actual day of the solstice? Mithras was born on December 25th--I don't think the solstice drifted from the 25th to the 21st in roughly 2,300 years, did it? Or did the solstice fall on what have been the 25th in the Roman calendar?

Likewise, taking into account that the new year is based in the dead of winter as opposed to spring because the solstice is the "rebirth" of the sun, shouldn't the new year begin on the day after solstice when the day becomes a minute or so longer?

Persephone should descend to Hades on the autumnal equinox OR the winter solstice and reappear from Hades on the vernal equinox, but I can never find specific dates given.

In addition, Saturnalia originally was on Dec. 17 and later expanded to a week. Arguing about the specifics doesn't change the meaning of the myth! People who get caught up in such details often overlook the symbolism, and symbolism is the language of myth.
 twowheelsdown2012
Joined: 10/8/2011
Msg: 94
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Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/27/2011 8:40:27 PM
The 25th of December is totally Pagan just like most things in Christianity. Sun dies on the horizon for 3 days and rises again on the 25th.(why does that story sound familiar?)

The Catholic Church is completely based on Sun worship. They build the Vatican with a large circle with an opening to the East and the rising Sun. They make it into a giant Sun dial and as a pointer they put an obelisk from a Sun worship temple in Egypt. Then they put the image of the Sun behind the pictures of all their saints. Then they carry a staff in front of them with a Sun image on it. And they change the day of worship to SUN-day.

Kinda think they just might be Sun worshipers don't you?

And to top that off, I like the image of the fish that people have on the back of their cars. I bet they don't know that this is the image the Pagans used to represent the vagina? Yep, turn it upwards and it represents the symbol for where life comes from. What's not to worship though? Vaginas not only give pleasure, but also bring forth life. But please Christians, don't turn the symbol on the side and call it a fish.

http://www.luciferianliberationfront.org/sf.html

Another case of adopting Pagan symbols and calling it Christian.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 95
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Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/30/2011 10:57:42 AM
The reference to the Fish is because Christ came at the beginning of the Age of Pieces, the fish....the fish represent the duality of man...same with the I Ching symbol...we just call it pagan...its astrology, same as the Persian Magi that visited Christ...Zoratorism.

We place to much emphasis on the idea that these people who lived in those days were superstitious and foolish...they weren't. They simply used different words and terms, they never had the English Dictionary and a limited alphabet...so some terms may not be expressed they way it was intended.

The Romans had...should I say....Astrologers...no different than any race of people then and now...today they are called...advisor's...big business and political people have astrologers. Don't kid yourselves...as above, so below....Sun Worship only represents the worship of G-d. Amen-Ra....Amen....right. We can take that eve a little further...All religion comes out of Egypt...all of it. Moses or Thutmoses...who knows but take for instance this....Isis is the Moon....Amon/Amen-Ra the Sun.....Elohim the Gods, as to say.
Well Is-Ra-El....Israel...was a Sun/moon cult....the Elohim are the planets...simple. There not gods there planets.....and in those days the only planets they could see were ones that could be seen...Saturn being the last planet to be seen is now....the Lord God....Saturnalia.....Mithra...Christ...and a host of others....that does not mean they never existed...but it might mean that they have been used for PTB sake.

Christ was a Jewish reformer, instead of fearing the Lord God he said to love the Father God...Christ never once used the term the Lord God...always the Father...sun worship the Sun not saturn....The color of Saturn is black, like black robes the priest and judges wear. We still worship the Lord God Saturn...the Lord of the Rings.

In astrology, Saturn is the devil. Well thats what they said and believed, its time is Capricorn and Dec 21 is the first day of Capricorn.....we placed Christ Birthday on the day of the Devil....go figure....lol

Its all Astrotheology.
 Enki_Ea
Joined: 12/18/2011
Msg: 96
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/30/2011 5:37:15 PM
Jesus was born on September 11, 01AD, and was conceived on the 91st Day of 12.17-18, 01BC. The Catholic church, which is NOT Biblical Christianity set up December 25 in conjunction with Babylonian worship of Tamuz. The Catholic church also did away with the practice of keeping the SOLAR Passover, which is the same two days every year: April 2-3(noon to noon), and May 2-3(noon to noon), and instituted Easter. This is conjunction with the Calendar that Jesus Christ taught to the Mayans, and why that Calendar is actually older than the Mayans.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 97
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Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/30/2011 7:51:48 PM
Enki hows enlil....hey, I like your stuff...I thought I read everything on the Sumers so where did you get this info....I like it....I want more....let everyone know....
 Enki_Ea
Joined: 12/18/2011
Msg: 98
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/30/2011 7:58:28 PM
The 25th December was celebrated in ancient days as the birthday of the unconquerable SUN god, (variously know as Tammuz, Mithra, Saturn, Adonis or BAAL) centuries before Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem.


En Lil is doing well, since He finished His work, bringing to light who Anu's and Antu's Covenant people are. Did you know that in relation to the Ark of The Covenant: En Lil and Enki-Ea are the names of the Cheribum? These names are also anagrams of two Prophets who were taken from the earth: Elijah(En Lil) and Enoch(Enki-Ea).
Yours Truly!
 Enki_Ea
Joined: 12/18/2011
Msg: 99
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/30/2011 8:09:14 PM
Pappy,
The Sumers stuff greatly parallels the Bible. Much of it requires a between the lines analysis. The "us" and "our" in the "Let us make man in our image" in Genesis 1:26 is refering to Anu(of whom Jesus Christ is the Human vestige thereof), Antu(The Holy Spirit by which Jesus said to be "born again of the water and the spirit), En Lil, and Enki-Ea the two Cheribum of The Covenant. Such certainly destroy the false paradigm of Religion/Creation versus Science, so that Science is the Knowledge of Creation. That false paradigm has kept both sides in ignorance battling each other rather than the organized religious, secret societies, and science establishments that work to keep people poor and dumbed down. I despise organized religion, and think people should pursue the Knowledge of the relationship between Creator and Creation. True Evolution therefore is a Creation aspiring itself after the inspiration of it's Creator, just like Elijah and Enoch, who were physically removed from the earth in their day.
 Enki_Ea
Joined: 12/18/2011
Msg: 100
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/30/2011 8:16:43 PM
Pappy,
Part of the Book of Genesis is a simplification or highlight outline of Sumerian accounts of Creation.
 Enki_Ea
Joined: 12/18/2011
Msg: 101
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/30/2011 8:48:06 PM
Pappy,
When you factor En Lil and Enki-Ea into the Koran, it actually validates it, because it is these that would be "Allah," but of course not the "Father God" Anu of the Bible. That actually does make Mohommed quite prophetic, though this account and analysis in light of the Sumerian accounts is not organized Islam. Really anymore than my analysis of the Bible is akin to contemporary organized "Christianity." It is kind of too bad that neither organized religion has this Knowledge, so that there can finally be peace between Arab and Israelite. I enjoy analyzing and interpretating dreams and parables and such; it is a delight to my mind. As things come to a head and pan out, I do think things will change for the better. It is incorrect to call them "aliens," because Angels both the Good and the fallen, have names. They can make and even assume a human form, making a human speak; after all the body is just a vessel. Carpenter's spirituality: the Body is a house; the Soul: mind, will, and emotions is the furniture in the house; and the Spirit is what/who lives in the house.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 102
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History
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/31/2011 10:40:13 AM
Yrs ago I read Samuel Noah Kramers book on the Sumerians...it blew me away. From that point on I was driven to learn more... and of course I did...I like the way you put it together on the post....if more people really got into this I am sure the fantasy of religion would be the reality of there being....Thanks for the imput.
 Enki_Ea
Joined: 12/18/2011
Msg: 103
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/31/2011 12:30:48 PM
Pappy,
Zechariah Stitchen wrote some interesting books too. The "Chronicles of The Earth" series is available online. There are some narrations on youtube, but I bear in mind that many people's inputs on the subject are from secular or "Hollywood" points of view.
Additionally, I believe the Nazca Lines of Peru were made from the very same "Cloud" that Jesus ascended into in Acts 1. If you look at them, check out the picture of the hands and notice 5 fingers on the left, and 4 fingers on the right hand, a missing little finger. I say that this a Revelation by Omission because it is in the Bible that God wrote the Law to Moses as He communed with Him in a "Cloud" on Mt Sinai. So you could say by the "Handwriting" you know who made the Nazca Lines. I told a friend of mine who had a two year son at the time about these, and told him I would pull up the drawing of the Nazca "Spaceman," which resembles a child's drawing in it's simplicity. I had everyone in the house gather around to see the child's reaction. When I pulled up the picture on the computer screen, and faced the child to the computer to look at, everyone in the room saw and heard the child run to the computer screen with arms outstretched calling out "God, God,God!!" So the child is right, and I knew how he would react ahead of time. I have similar Biblical interpretations behind the meanings of the drawings there. Take another example "The Parrot." Both parrot and Prophet start with P and end with T, and the Prophet is God's parrot because He says what God teaches Him in His heart to say.
You are welcome Pappy!! Great talking to you.
 Enki_Ea
Joined: 12/18/2011
Msg: 104
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/31/2011 12:49:11 PM
Pappy,
Proper understanding of the dynamics and even biochemistry of human spirituality, yields insights into psychology in the microcosm, and into sociology in the macrocosm. There are people who purposefully work to keep people poor, dumbed down, and therefore enslaved. In witchcraft a Spell is cast to subdue opposition and/or to gain affection. Basically a Spell is gear to put someone in state of double-mind, hold two opposites as valid and true: a false paradigm. The Republican vs Democrat false paradigm reveals there is not a dime's worth of difference between the two bought-off/sold-out political parties, yet most of Americans are polarized against even each other being under the Sorcery Spell of one "horn" of the "Goat" or the other. I do have a handy knowledge of the Occult, which simply means "secret;" and, there are a lot of things kept secret from the people so that they perish from a lack of Knowledge. It is written that a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways. In Orwell's "1984" it was called "double-think;" I maintain that in light of events in this world we are about 28 years into "1984."
I am happy to see that someone else takes the time to illuminate themselves. It does make it hard to find a woman having such points of view as my own, but some people I am happy to be without in life.
 Enki_Ea
Joined: 12/18/2011
Msg: 105
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/31/2011 1:00:46 PM
Pap,
I am not too big on The Beatles, but I do love Jim Morrison's music and poetry. You got to love "The Lizard King" aka as "The White Salamander." So it is that there is a Lizard among the drawings at Nazca in Peru.
 Enki_Ea
Joined: 12/18/2011
Msg: 106
Dec 25th new Son or new Sun
Posted: 12/31/2011 3:13:52 PM
It all about flipping over the money changer's tables and driving them out of The Temple. Even all the Mayan and Aztec gods are all aspects of one and the same God, who is described identically in their writings as He is described Revelation 1, and in aged depictions of the written descriptions of Jesus Christ by Roman and Jewish historians. Yes, I even have an interpretation of the Book of Mormon that is not the organized religion of Mormonism. Just like my interpretation of the Koran and the Bible is not akin to organized Islam or "churchianity." Nor my interpretation of the Mayan, Aztec, and Native American religions quite the practice of those either. For what I say to people where I live, most of these Bible Thumpers instead of Bible Readers call me the . "If Satan be divided against himself, how then can his kingdom stand?"
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