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 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 26
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a PartyPage 2 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party

The hypocrisy.


Broken Promises: The House GOP Breaks Several Of Its Own Pledges On First Day In Power
Yesterday, Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) gaveled in the GOP takeover of the House. Christening his rein in tears, the self-proclaimed “most transparent person in this town” promised an era of more “honest” and “accountable” government with a set of new House rules to match. But that was yesterday afternoon. By nightfall, the House GOP leadership had already broken key pledges of transparency and accountability. Republicans have already walked back three key promises they touted up through the end of 111th Congress:...

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/01/06/house-gop-broken-promises/



Report: House GOP's Constitution Reading Could Cost Over $1 Million
The amount I get is nearly $1.1 million. $1,071,872.87, to be exact, though of course this is more back-of-the-envelope than exact. When one chamber of Congress is in session but not working, we the people still have to pay for members' salaries and expenses, and for their police protection, and for keeping their lights and phones and coffee machines on. Even Eric Cantor (R-VA) and Mike Pence (R-IN) combined don't blow enough hot air to heat the Capitol in January.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/report-house-gops-constitution-reading-could-cost-over-1-million.php?ref=fpb



Why Progressives Find It Difficult to Take the “Fiscal Responsibility” Movement Seriously
...One major concern relates to the changes in PAYGO budget rules. Replacing the two-sided PAYGO rule with a one‐sided CUTGO rule will not only make it harder to offset legislation, but also exempt potentially budget‐busting tax cuts from any discipline. The one‐sided focus on spending also could result in the further proliferation of tax expenditures. As the Bowles‐Simpson commission has highlighted, tax expenditures are simply spending by another name and should not be exempt from scrutiny.

We have a similar concern with the new budget reconciliation rules, which will no longer allow budget reconciliation to increase spending but will permit it to be used for tax cuts which increase the deficit. This is a step backward that would allow for a return to the process that was used to enact the tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 that continue to contribute to our fiscal problems. The special procedures for budget reconciliation legislation are intended to make it easier for Congress to enact the tough choices necessary to reduce the deficit, and should not be used for politically easy and fiscally irresponsible legislation...


http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2011/01/why-progressives-find-it-difficult-to-take-the-fiscal-responsibility-movement-seriously/



Republican bid to scrap healthcare hits snag
(Reuters) - Republican efforts to scrap President Barack Obama's healthcare reform took a hit on Thursday when budget analysts said repeal would add billions of dollars to the federal budget deficit.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated overturning the reform signed by Obama last year would add about $230 billion to the deficit by 2021 and result in 32 million fewer people having health insurance.

That was a blow to Republican campaign promises to slash the federal budget deficit...


http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70113W20110106?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+reuters/topNews+%28News+/+US+/+Top+News%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetch


^^^ and why does this matter?

because:
More Small Businesses Offering Health Care To Employees Thanks To Obamacare
The first statistics are coming in and, to the surprise of a great many, Obamacare might just be working to bring health care to working Americans precisely as promised.

The major health insurance companies around the country are reporting a significant increase in small businesses offering health care benefits to their employees.

Why?

Because the tax cut created in the new health care reform law providing small businesses with an incentive to give health benefits to employees is working....



etc
etc
etc
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 27
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/8/2011 2:19:09 PM
^^^^^Yeah, hypocrisy's the worst.

I'd much rather elect someone who had the decency to tell me ahead of time that their solution to our financial crisis was to spend our way out of debt.

Errr... wait a minute....
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 28
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/10/2011 11:01:09 AM


Report: House GOP's Constitution Reading Could Cost Over $1 Million


It's well worth it. For most Congressmen it will be their first exposure to the document.



The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated overturning the reform signed by Obama last year would add about $230 billion to the deficit by 2021 and result in 32 million fewer people having health insurance.


The CBO gets that number through unrealistic assumptions. GIGO. The CBO has a terrible record for accuracy in their estimations. It's not the CBO's fault (and has nothing to do with any political biases), but rather the laws they they are bound to follow which prevent the more realistic assumptions from being made (for fear of partisan biases!).
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 29
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/11/2011 5:25:13 AM
"I'm sure you're correct, but I don't like the way you've worded this. How big of a racist element are we talking about?.... I mean, out of the millions of people who are pro-union, I have absolute certainty that there would be a substantial amount of racists in this group. I don't expect that the Democrats would condemn this group because of racist elements. And really, other than choosing a black man as their last presidential candidate, what have the Dems done to root out the racists in their own ranks?"

The fact that there might be racist PEOPLE within ANY subgroup is not the point being discussed. That there are likely racists in some labor unions who support the Democrats (by the way, you should really pay attention to the changing profile of unions: many of them vote AGAINST Democrats these days!) is meaningless in a discussion of groups who have racism as CENTRAL ELEMENT of their stated thinking. You will find criminals within any group you can name as well, but that doesn't mean that the GROUP is bent on criminal activity.

Again, THIS THREAD IS ENTIRELY FOCUSSED ON THINGS THE REPUBLICANS COULD DO TO IMPROVE, AND IS NOT INTENDED TO SUGGEST THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE WITHOUT PROBLEMS OF EQUAL OR EVEN GREATER IMPORT. In fact, one of the repeating mistakes the REPUBLICANS have made, when shown that they have clearly made mistakes that conflict with their own stated beliefs, is that they point at the Democrats and say "they did it too!" Instead of CORRECTING their errors, they compound them, and play a childish game of "yeah, well HE'S got goo on HIS shirt too!"
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 30
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Posted: 1/11/2011 6:45:18 PM

THIS THREAD IS ENTIRELY FOCUSSED ON THINGS THE REPUBLICANS COULD DO TO IMPROVE

I think the prevailing ideology coming from the Dems is that Republicans (and much more dear to my heart, conservatives) are either greedy millionaires or poor working schlubs who aren't smart enough to deserve an equal vote, who are usually Christian zealots, gun nuts, racists, enviroment haters, just hateful individuals overall (I find this one to be the height of irony), and dangerous extremists.

I dunno... did I miss anything? (I don't think I misused the word "ideology" here, as it does seem to be their bread and butter.... it's kinda like "We know we're not running on much here..... but look at WHO we're running against!?!!")

I take issue with all of these descriptions, not only because they're not fair, but because this kind of thinking is on the move north across my border.... all of a sudden us Canadian conservatives are not only idiots... we're also evil. I think it all started when we dropped the word "Progressive" from the front of "Conservative"...

Instead of CORRECTING their errors, they compound them, and play a childish game of "yeah, well HE'S got goo on HIS shirt too!"

I think you're right about this... any idea how to counter these tactics in an adultlike manner and still manage to win the odd election? I'd love it if governments could manage to be more productive....
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 31
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/12/2011 10:28:32 AM

This is at the core of why they have SEVERAL TIMES convinced themselves that they have to lie, and cheat, and outright steal elections

This doesn't make sense. The Democrats are the party that has consistently stolen the most votes in the most elections the most number of times. Hell, Chicago is a vote-manufacturing machine for the Democrats. This isn't even news. It's not even a point of debate. It's just "well, that's one of those things we just account for".

Actually your entire opening post makes no sense and is completely at odds with historical and current politics.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 32
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/12/2011 11:26:30 AM
I can honestly say that I am pleasantly surprised by the quick action taken by the Arizona Republicans. These are the same politicians that passed the racist anti-immigration law targeting Americans of hispanic or latino descent for racial profiling and discrimination.

However, this time I will praise their legislative work restricting the hate demonstrations by a so-called Christian sect at the funerals of the victims in the Tucson Massacre. Even though the citizens of Tucson were preparing to neutralize the protest of the so-called Christian hate group, law or no law, is a good sign for the betterment of a civilized society when the hate groups are told in a clear voice that they are going too far when they plan to protest at the funeral of a 9 year old innocent girl, victim of a senseless crime.

If Republicans can act to control the hate groups, then perhaps there is hope that they can do other good things for our society.



Tucson rallies to protect girl's family from protesters
Arizona lawmakers pass an emergency measure to stop Westboro Baptist Church from demonstrating at the funeral of Christina Green, 9. Outraged residents make plans to shield her family.

January 11, 2011, 6:34 p.m.
Reporting from Tucson — Arizona lawmakers moved quickly Tuesday to try to block protesters from the funeral of 9-year-old shooting victim Christina Green, passing an emergency measure prohibiting protests within 300 feet of any funeral services.

In addition to the new law, hundreds of Tucson residents were making contingency plans to try to protect the family of the girl who was slain in Saturday's rampage.

The actions were prompted by the Westboro Baptist Church, a publicity-seeking Kansas congregation known for demonstrating at the funerals of U.S. soldiers, arguing that their deaths are retribution by God for America's acceptance of homosexuality. The church announced it would protest Green's funeral, scheduled for Thursday, because the family is Catholic.

The protest drew instant and unanimous condemnation from Arizonans.

"Protesting or picketing outside the funeral of an innocent victim is despicable," said House Speaker Kirk Adams. "It's time to bring Arizona in line with the many other states that protect the sensitivities of victims against groups that use fear and hate to denigrate the lives of Americans."

Adams sponsored the emergency measure that prohibits people from picketing or protesting within 300 feet of any residence, cemetery, funeral home, church, synagogue or other establishment during or within one hour of a funeral service or burial service.

The House and Senate passed the bill unanimously Tuesday. Gov. Jan Brewer signed the measure Tuesday evening.

The founder of the Westboro Baptist Church, Fred Phelps, has traveled with his daughters and granddaughters throughout the county picketing soldiers' funerals, prompting new state and local laws to keep them away from grieving families. The Supreme Court has agreed to take up a free-speech case related to the funeral protests.

Tucson residents are preparing to line the funeral procession for Green, both to show their support of the family and to block them from seeing the Westboro protest.

"We just want to show the families in Tucson that we're a community that's bound together, through the good and the bad," said Janna Zankich, a 46-year-old dance studio manger.

On Tuesday evening, she planned to gather with dozens of people at Breakout Studios to construct 8- to 10-foot wings that volunteer "angels" would wear along the funeral procession to block the family's view of the protesters.

Residents' grass-roots response to the church's planned protest has spread quickly through social media.

A friend of Zankich's, Christin Gilmer, put up a Facebook page calling for volunteers to help protect the family from picketers from Westboro. Hundreds of volunteers have said they would attend.

Trevor Hill, a University of Arizona junior, is trying to coordinate the myriad groups so they are a calming and peaceful force on Thursday.

"Our goal is to be silent. We don't need to be a distraction — these are funeral processions," he said. "No signs or music, no counter-protests. Do not engage Westboro Baptist. It's just not worth it, and it's equally disrespectful for the family for us to be yelling."

Hill also hopes to show the world a different side of Tucson.

"There have been people claiming Arizona is the center of intolerance, the mecca of bigotry. That is absolutely not true. These are people who live their lives and want to raise families," he said. "It's honestly a very special community."

seema.mehta@latimes.com


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-funeral-protest-20110112,0,7494257.story
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 33
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/12/2011 7:11:30 PM
CountIbli: As far as I know, every US congressperson and governor uses their office budget to print and distribute copies of the constitution (admittedly with assorted accompanying slants they design) free to constitutents who visit or meet them. Pretending they've never read them (though I'm not using the above as proof of the contrary) is really stupid posturing to imply that anyone who had read it would agree with you. Sorry, you do not define reality for anyone other than yoruself.
- - -
For our American friends - it's not at the core of the topic, but it is part of the "swing to the right" we've lived through:

The Canadian Progressive Conservative party traditionally stood for fiscal responsibility, traditional values, and care and concern that hard-working Canadians deserved a fair deal from government and business. A large segment - often called the "Red Tories" - linked their religious beliefs to taking care of the poor, the sick, and women with useless husbands. (It's a very old tradition, and like many traditions part of it can look a bit dated today.)

Today's Canadian Conservative party is in fact the Reform party, which changed its name to the Canadian Alliance party to try to get more traditional Conservatives to join. Eventually, they took over the Progressive Conservatives and became the Conservative party of Canada, having purged the Red Tories and following a more US-style neo-conservative bent.

Ironically, the Reform Party was founded by Preston Manning, son of former Alberta provincial prime minister (AKA Premier) Ernest Manning, a classic god-loving Red Tory in many ways. Back in Ernest's day, Alberta was more poor farmer than rich oilman, and Preston didn't want to abandon that.

Alberta's conversion to an oil-rich province came with very close ties to the Texas oil industry, and many of the cultural heroes of today's Alberta are Texan. Texas lobbyists opposing universal health-care and firearms regulation have targeted Alberta as the place in Canada best suited to trying to discredit the "bad example" of Canada's history of firearms use (pretty common ownership, very rare use in murder) and universal health care.

Today, the Conservative party is much more conservative, led by a man who devoted his life to reducing taxes on rich people and advocating flat income taxes with heavy consumption taxes. In fact, before entering politics, Prime Minister Stephen Harper prepared policy for anti-tax politicians and created the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, a seriously rabid right-wing tax lobby group that survives today without him.

Still, Canadians are Canadians. Neither Harper nor most of his backers are comfortable with comparisons to Tea-Party types or the motley crew of haters and axe-grinders the US Republican party tolerates to fight its minority status in siding with the rich in so many ways.

ANOTHER NOTE: The provincial Liberal party in BC is not a liberal party; it was taken over by the traditionally-conservative Social Credit party in the '90s after the SoCreds had defaulted on their debts. They dissolved Social Credit and walked over to the Liberals, bought membership hards and promptly ejected all the Liberals. Today, the B.C. Liberal party is strongly regressive-tax neo-conservative, and supports the similar federal Conservative party despite its name.

The B.C. Liberals recently dumped their neo-con leader, and it remains to be seen whether the new leader will lead the party closer to the middle. In the absence of a strong centre-left party, their chief opposition is the more leftist New Democratic Party, which is routinely defeated by labeling them socialist and communist.

There's pretty much nobody in Canadian politics willing to tolerate racism and bigotry being associated with them outside Quebec, where divisive hate is the main political issue. There have been a couple of "embarrassing" candidates here or there with white supremacist or anti-immigrant positions, but the parties shut them up and ease them out pretty promptly.
ED BEAR
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 34
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/12/2011 9:18:55 PM

However, this time I will praise their legislative work restricting the hate demonstrations by a so-called Christian sect at the funerals of the victims in the Tucson Massacre. Even though the citizens of Tucson were preparing to neutralize the protest of the so-called Christian hate group, law or no law, is a good sign for the betterment of a civilized society when the hate groups are told in a clear voice that they are going too far when they plan to protest at the funeral of a 9 year old innocent girl, victim of a senseless crime.

I think we can all agree that the WBC are a bunch of hateful douchebags contributing nothing but another debate topic to society. However, I'm torn on Arizona's actions here. While we can all agree that them not disturbing a final resting place of a victim of senseless crime is a good thing, I worry that this sets a dangerous precedent empowering the state to declare what is an acceptable exercise of our most important freedoms inherited from the misdeeds of our previous British rulers: the freedom of speech and assembly (and I suppose, religion, but that is a lesser issue in this case).

As they say, "the trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all".
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 35
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/16/2011 9:39:54 PM


CountIbli: As far as I know, every US congressperson and governor uses their office budget to print and distribute copies of the constitution (admittedly with assorted accompanying slants they design) free to constitutents who visit or meet them. Pretending they've never read them (though I'm not using the above as proof of the contrary) is really stupid posturing to imply that anyone who had read it would agree with you. Sorry, you do not define reality for anyone other than yoruself.


The smiley should have been a big clue that I was kidding.

Back to the OP. I think the greatest problem facing the Republican Party is that it's been taken over by the Neocons, especially the Religious Reich Neocons. For example, if McCain hadn't shifted his rhetoric to pander to the RRN he would have easily won the election. The new Republicans in Congress rode in on a wave of populist opposition to Obamacare and bailouts, but these are really things that Neocons would support if they hadn't been offered up by Democrats. Obamacare was invented by Neocons in the early 90's and put into place in Massachusetts under Neocons Mitt Romney and Scott Brown. Corporate bailouts and welfare have always been popular with Neocons. I predict that if the new Republicans stick to their Neocon values then we're going to see a shift back to Democratic control of the Congress in 2 years.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 36
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/22/2011 11:50:02 AM
McCain certainly had his popularity before turning Bushian, but it's hard to say if Jesus on a cloud could have brought the GOP back so soon after Bush.
ED BEAR
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 37
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/23/2011 4:36:42 AM

There's pretty much nobody in Canadian politics willing to tolerate racism and bigotry being associated with them outside Quebec, where divisive hate is the main political issue.

First off, I'm going to make an attempt at dispelling the notion a few here hold that America is the only country left in the world where racism is a problem. In my area, it's still going strong... although intolerant attitudes here are usually aimed at the Indians... and at East Indians. I've spent enough time with the pot-smoking, volkswagen-driving, lovebead-wearing people on the BC coast to know it's no better over there. While I normally would never be one to come to the defense of the Bloc, I've seen several instances where our media has tried to paint them as racist when really they just weren't politically correct.... it's not the same thing.

many of the cultural heroes of today's Alberta are Texan.

Can you name one?.... otherwise it's just an empty talking point.

the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, a seriously rabid right-wing tax lobby group

Rabid? I could accept "extreme right-wing tax lobby group", even though I realize that unless you're a 17 year old snowboarder, "extreme" is almost always a perjorative. This is what I meant when I talked about how attitudes are migrating north.

comparisons to Tea-Party types or the motley crew of haters and axe-grinders the US Republican party tolerates to fight its minority status

As long as we all accept statements like this as "known facts", everyone can get along and have civil discussions?

A month or so ago I caught part of a "60 Minutes" interview with Jimmy Carter where him and the interviewer were discussing how Obama was the most hated President in history. I believe that there is certainly a lot of unwarranted criticism directed Obama's way.... but really.... nobody remembers how G.W. Bush was treated?... even here in Texas lovin' Alberta, everyone knows how stupid (and sometimes evil) W. was... very few individuals here could give any specifics as to why he is stupid... but we all know what we've been pablum fed, and most believe "Bush is an idiot." And there's still plenty from the left with an intense hatred of Nixon....

But it's conservatives who are the haters, and as long as we accept this "fact", everbody will get along swimmingly?

siding with the rich in so many ways.

Since I bought a computer, I've visited wikipedia enough to recognize a "weasel phrase" when I see one...
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 38
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/23/2011 7:40:45 AM
427cammer: There's only so much I can supply in a brief attempt to explain the "paradoxical" status of some Canadian political parties today when compared to their founding. There are others in the past, but these remain and are likely confusing many of our non-Canadian readers. We're in a public forum where you and others may contest any part of my personal account you disagree with.

No disagreement about the common nature of bigotry - I noted that it survives, but:

'There's pretty much nobody in Canadian politics willing to tolerate racism and bigotry being associated with them outside Quebec, where divisive hate is the main political issue. There have been a couple of "embarrassing" candidates here or there with white supremacist or anti-immigrant positions, but the parties shut them up and ease them out pretty promptly.'

The Canadian Taxpayers foundation has its own website and materials, and speaks for itself. It WAS founded and steered by our current Prime Minister, and he still shares most of its ideals though he has become more pragmatic about power-keeping since then.

When the US Republican party declares its top priority the creation of tax breaks for the richest citizens, nobody asks whether that's a "right-wing" position. In strict economic principles - not moral or social - the Canadian Taxpayer's Foundation stakes out the far right in Canadian economic policy and does it proudly. "Rabid" is a word you may complain about, and you do. I think it applies here.

In Alberta, the rich and powerful are concentrated in the oil industry. Oilmen dominate the social scene and are the successful examples of business that naturally get looked up to. In other areas of Canada, the economy is build on other things, and popular business leaders are less tied to US interests.

This is not a PhD thesis - just an overview of changes in the BC Liberal and Federal Conservative parties in Canada. The old Social Credit party in BC, too, moved dramatically to the right during its years in power.

ED BEAR
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 39
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/23/2011 1:04:28 PM

When the US Republican party declares its top priority the creation of tax breaks for the richest citizens, nobody asks whether that's a "right-wing" position.

First off, I know the Republicans recently fought to extend tax cuts to all of US citizens; the fact that they did not want to single out the wealthy as the only ones to have their rates raised is proof of what side they're taking? Making statements like this add to nothing but divisiveness.... and no, I'm not worried about protecting the rich from having their feelings hurt.

I'm actually a believer in trickle-down economics which so many seem to think Reagan invented (whereas I'm pretty certain it's been an economic principle throughout time). I've seen it work here in Alberta; oftentimes I think it worked too well... while I would have preferred to see a slower economic growth here at home in the last 15 years, NOW is not the time to bring everything to a screeching halt just because we want to tax the hell out of the oil companies.

In strict economic principles - not moral or social - the Canadian Taxpayer's Foundation stakes out the far right in Canadian economic policy and does it proudly. "Rabid" is a word you may complain about, and you do. I think it applies here.

Near as I can tell, this organisation's main goal is to reduce government waste... from my own experience I've seen a lot of wasteful spending in all levels of government. Except for those who are benifitting financially from this wastefulness, I would think few would have a problem with this type of thinking.

And if you're not trying to make "moral or social" implications about this organisation, then "rabid" is certainly a poor choice of words.

In Alberta, the rich and powerful are concentrated in the oil industry. Oilmen dominate the social scene and are the successful examples of business that naturally get looked up to.

While some people have a great deal of respect for the local small business owner who made it big, here, as is the same as anywhere, oil companies are pretty much universally held in disdain (even by those whose personal fortunes are inextricably tied to oil). Try as I might, I can't think of one Texan who comes close to qualifying as a cultural hero.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 40
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/23/2011 1:21:50 PM


siding with the rich in so many ways.


Since I bought a computer, I've visited wikipedia enough to recognize a "weasel phrase" when I see one...


Funny how you complain about other poster's opinions about the U.S. Republican Party with phrases that reveal your animosity against anyone who voices an opinion about the legislative efforts of the Republicans in the U.S. That comment in your post reveals that you are a victim of the same maladie that you complain about.

In the last fifty years the U.S. Republican Party has been working for the upper class, passing legislation in their favor and putting obstacles to derail any law that tend to favor the interests of many millions of working Americans who toil for wages that keep them stuck in poverty. This is not an opinion. It is a fact available to anyone who is interested in learning about the history of the federal minimum wage in the U.S.

Since Wikipedia says that "words or claims that turn out to be empty upon analysis are known as "weasel words," I suggest that in order for you make such an accusation you needed to make an analysis and prove that the poster's opinion was voided of facts. However, you don't provide anything of substance to back up your words, and unless you give us something that would support it, the comment you made will sound just like empty words.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 41
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/23/2011 2:44:02 PM
.dej:
Can you cite any references for your claim " The Democrats are the party that has consistently stolen the most votes in the most elections the most number of times. Hell, Chicago is a vote-manufacturing machine for the Democrats. This isn't even news. It's not even a point of debate. It's just "well, that's one of those things we just account for". "
I agree that Chicago WAS proven to have directly helped Kennedy win back in 1960, and there have always been allegations since, but to extend THAT to say that DEMOCRATS have stolen more votes than Republicans is a HUGE stretch.
What I was directly referring to, was the infamous Watergate mess, and the much more recent published instances of Republicans actively working to force Democrats off of polling lists, when they had the temerity to return Republican literature to the senders. Republicans have been the ones calling for requiring special voter ID cards, and working to limit how many people CAN vote.
If anything, .dej, your post is an example of the kind of thinking that IS holding the Republicans back: Unfounded (as in unproven) paranoia that "someone must be stealing elections from us" seems to be a big problem for them, leading to bad decisions LIKE the various published efforts to prevent Dems from voting.
What both parties should be doing, is working to WIN elections, by WINNING our votes through good decisions, not trying to gain votes by default, through making us fear something about the "other guys."
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 42
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/23/2011 6:31:40 PM
I wrote that post longer enough ago I don't remember the sources I had looked up, but if I get a moment, I'll head back out to the wonderful world of Google and see what I can dig up.

I don't know how you can accuse me of any sort of representation for how the Republicans are held back, because I'm not one, I'm merely educated and vote along those lines. Yes, Republicans are known for doing crazy things like advocating requiring ID to limit fraudulent votes, requiring some sort of mechanism to stop people from voting more than once, etc...

Why do you think that might be?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 43
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/24/2011 1:16:19 PM
It might be paranoia. It might be a calculated distraction to make their own people think they should continue to believe that Republicans only lose because of cheating by the other side. I do note, that IF THEY HAD PROOF I WAS A REAL PROBLEM, THEY WOULD PRESENT THAT PROOF AS PART OF PUSHING FOR THE ID'S.


They DON'T have proof.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 44
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/24/2011 10:14:43 PM
I don't particularly believe that the Republicans lose mostly because the other side cheats. I don't think most Republicans believe that, either. I think voter fraud in most cases is something that doesn't overall affect the outcome of major elections.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/25/2011 8:25:33 PM

Funny how you complain about other poster's opinions about the U.S. Republican Party with phrases that reveal your animosity against anyone who voices an opinion about the legislative efforts of the Republicans in the U.S. That comment in your post reveals that you are a victim of the same maladie that you complain about.

No, I didn't call all Democrats crooks, or I didn't call them all liars. I intended nothing personal at all in my comment; if someone accuses me of using a strawman argument, my feelings don't get hurt.... I just attempt to prove otherwise. I didn't use this term because of the negative sound of the words "weasel phrase", I used it because I felt it fits... I still do.

This is not an opinion. It is a fact available to anyone who is interested in learning about the history of the federal minimum wage in the U.S.

No, it's still an opinion. Without bothering to check the Republicans voting records on minimum wage, I have the highest confidence in this.

Raising minimum wage would accomplish nothing but increase inflation and make the US even less competitive to countries with lower paid workers.... sending more jobs overseas. If the workers at the bottom got a 10% raise, workers throughout the spectrum are going to want the same raise. This is because most people know how valuable their work is..... it's why the mechanic who rebuilds your transmission gets paid more than the mechanic who changes your oil.

I would suspect most of your elected representatives realize this. When a politician pushes to raise minimum wage from $7 to $8, he's pandering to get votes; he knows that extra dollar an hour isn't going to make a difference. This same politician would never suggest a raise from $7 to $15.... he knows that would crush your economy.

I suggest that in order for you make such an accusation you needed to make an analysis and prove that the poster's opinion was voided of facts.

I did this. When Ed Bear elaborates on his earlier post with "tax breaks for the richest citizens", I make a reasonable assumption that he's referring to the recent extensions of Bush's tax cuts. These cuts were extended to all citizens; the republicans never asked for tax raises for the poor did they? If your country has a progressive tax system as Canada does, then the wealthy are already paying a higher tax rate than the poor or middle class.... have I made a wrong assumption here?

I had a disagreement with another poster on his perceptions about the Republicans siding with the rich instead of poor. With well reasoned arguments backed up by facts, it's possible he could change my mind in this matter. However he was terribly misinformed about the nature of Alberta's heroes; I hope I changed his mind about that.

We're in a public forum where you and others may contest any part of my personal account you disagree with.

Ed Bear gets it.... why can't you?
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 46
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/26/2011 11:40:31 AM
^^^^^^

Ed Bear gets it.... why can't you?


You didn't do that at all. Ed Bear said that U.S. Republicans are always siding with the Rich, and you characterized his opinion as a "weasel phrase" without making any attempt to refute it with facts or presenting a well-reasoned analysis to support an opinion that contradicts his.

Now in your last post you have only repeated the same ideological stuff used by the U.S. Republicans to justify their legislative efforts to keep working people living in poverty.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 47
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/26/2011 1:22:12 PM
First off, I know the Republicans recently fought to extend tax cuts to all of US citizens; the fact that they did not want to single out the wealthy as the only ones to have their rates raised is proof of what side they're taking?...

It is proof they are siding with the rich, as it was proposed to only extend the tax cuts to those that really need the help and for the benefit of the economy.




I'm actually a believer in trickle-down economics which so many seem to think Reagan invented (whereas I'm pretty certain it's been an economic principle throughout time). I've seen it work here in Alberta; oftentimes I think it worked too well... while I would have preferred to see a slower economic growth here at home in the last 15 years, NOW is not the time to bring everything to a screeching halt just because we want to tax the hell out of the oil companies.

Not Reagan, it was humorist Will Rogers, who said during the Great Depression that "money was all appropriated for the top in hopes that it would trickle down to the needy.

Trickle Down is nothing more than political rhetoric and the facts back that up.

Look at tax rates over history and then overlay that with the state of the economy and you will see the less the rich pay in taxes the wore off the general population is.

The last time the US was in this situation with these tax levels there was the great depression and one of the major factors getting the US out of that pickle was raising taxes on the rich, which worked very well until the rich started fighting back and now have the tax rates back to where they were and the whole time crying poor.

You give a guy with 10million in the bank a 5% cut on his taxes and the chances of that money making it back into the economy is low compared to give a guy a 10% break that has a negative or zero net worth and he is going to be spending 100% of that tax break and thus helping the economy.


So if the tax cuts where are so needed for the rich to create and stimulate the economy, then why didn't they work during the Bush administration?
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 48
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/26/2011 6:19:24 PM

The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party


They have absolutely no idea on how to create jobs or maybe it's that they just don't care take your choice
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 49
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/27/2011 10:23:46 AM
^^^^^^

That's quite an interesting statement considering that government data shows that during the first 2 years of Obama's presidency (and the democratic supermajority), more jobs were lost than at any other time since Hoover's reign during the great depression.
Compound this with the fact he & his fellow democrats spent trillions of dollars to supposedly create jobs in what ended up as this 3% negative job growth, what exactly would you cite as the democrats grand ideas?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 50
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The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 1/28/2011 1:17:59 AM

Now in your last post you have only repeated the same ideological stuff used by the U.S. Republicans to justify their legislative efforts to keep working people living in poverty.

Firstly I'm not repeating anything (maybe others are repeating me?). I'm just stating what occurs based on observances of my own and others' behavior. If I wake up one day and see others who were making less than me are now making the same, I'm going to demand a raise. If my employer wakes up and sees his payroll has increased by 25%, he's going to increase his prices to cover the additional costs.... this isn't rocket science.

How are you making a contribution to this discussion other than taking poorly aimed potshots? Maybe you could explain how artificially increasing wages isn't the very definition of inflation? Or.... seeing as how no one here has actually done anything other than make vague claims about "Republicans siding with the rich in so many ways", you could provide some specifics, along with some detailed analysis of your own. So far I haven't had much to refute....

It is proof they are siding with the rich, as it was proposed to only extend the tax cuts to those that really need the help and for the benefit of the economy.

????...... I just can't bend my brain enough to think this way. Extending tax cuts to EVERYONE (and the smallest cut of all to the rich) is proof?.... the government isn't giving money to the rich; they're just agreeing to steal just a slightly bit less than usual for a few years.

Trickle Down is nothing more than political rhetoric and the facts back that up.

....not from the view out my front door. Oil companies are making money over here, and everyone, from the roughnecks and truckdrivers and welders to hotel staff and waitresses and the kid working at Wal-Mart, is reaping benefits. When unemployment is practically nil, workers have a lot more leverage in wage negotiations, as well as almost limitless choices in careers.

You give a guy with 10million in the bank a 5% cut on his taxes and the chances of that money making it back into the economy is low compared to give a guy a 10% break that has a negative or zero net worth and he is going to be spending 100% of that tax break and thus helping the economy.

The rich are known for blowing their money too. And the money they don't use buying $1000 shoes or $50,000 vacations, is usually spent building industry. If the area they live has a government that is business friendly, these jobs are created at home.

Really though, I have trouble wrapping my head around the idea that the only solution to a recession is an increase in rampant consumerism. There's gotta be better ideas out there...... anybody???
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