Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 176
view profile
History
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a PartyPage 8 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

The stimulus plan paid for lots of roads that even Republicans like to drive on. When those roads start to fail, then you can call the money spent to build them a failure. I think our infrastructure is given a grade of a D. When do Republicans plan to care about the roads? How many bridges have to fall down before they stop crying about building roads?
Also, the majority of the stimulus plan was in the form of tax rebates and cuts. I think all Republicans should send back those checks they got since they're crying so hard about them. What was it, $600 for a single household and $1200 for a dual income household? Bet y'all Republicans ran right to the bank with those checks.


Skooch, I do agree that the stimulus plan wasn't the silver bullet to spur the economy that some thought it would be or possibly even what they thought it was promised to be but I have trouble labeling it a failure when every weekday morning I drive 45 mph while flashing past no less than 60 employed people that otherwise wouldn't be. Besides the fact that my car isn't rattling apart anymore on pothole infested roads that were worse to drive on than an old gravel road. Without solid and reliable infrastructure, commerce cannot proceed... I thought that was one of our core values as Republicans.

And I do take your point about the facts that everyone cashed their IRS rebate checks without question. Also when you drive past the unemployment office, be sure to count how many Bush/Cheney and McCain/Palin bumper stickers you see on the cars parked outside. The fact is that when any human whether Democrat, Republican, or Other needs and there are handouts to be had, we ALL get in line and our principles fade. Our principles do seem to adjust in relation to our fortunes regardless of who we are and it's easy to be staunch in them in times of prosperity.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 177
view profile
History
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/3/2011 6:15:33 AM

You mean like Ron Paul? He has never come close to a victory as a presidential candidate. Policies and integrity are one thing; charisma and electability are another. Many of his ideas are pretty radical and extreme. He has few political allies, and the corporate media certainly doesn't want to give him too much of a voice.

Paul is a well-meaning politician with integrity-- a rare description. But he is not really "electable." He doesn't even want the office that badly. He'd rather that his ideas get implemented than actually become president.

The Republican's problem is that they NEED the fervor of the religious right to get the majority vote, as halftime said. The loyal Republicans who do not hold an evangelical Christian worldview are in a very small minority.


Fly, that's a pretty solid post. I disagree that RP's ideas being radical or extreme... we're merely conditioned over decades to believe that they are by those with millions upon millions of dollars along with power to be gained. They really do still apply and always will and if we had stuck to these ideas as a nation long ago, we would not be facing the perpetual problems that we believe we have to endure.

But overall, I think you articulated your post very well.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 178
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/4/2011 9:31:19 AM
Mike Lofgren, a 30 year veteran of the GOP explains whats wrong with the GOP and the Dems and our body politic in general I find he lays it out pretty well. Long read, but worth the time.

Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult
Saturday 3 September 2011
by: Mike Lofgren, Truthout | News Analysis

Barbara Stanwyck: "We're both rotten!"

Fred MacMurray: "Yeah - only you're a little more rotten." -"Double Indemnity" (1944)

Those lines of dialogue from a classic film noir sum up the state of the two political parties in contemporary America. Both parties are rotten - how could they not be, given the complete infestation of the political system by corporate money on a scale that now requires a presidential candidate to raise upwards of a billion dollars to be competitive in the general election? Both parties are captives to corporate loot. The main reason the Democrats' health care bill will be a budget buster once it fully phases in is the Democrats' rank capitulation to corporate interests - no single-payer system, in order to mollify the insurers; and no negotiation of drug prices, a craven surrender to Big Pharma.

But both parties are not rotten in quite the same way. The Democrats have their share of machine politicians, careerists, corporate bagmen, egomaniacs and kooks. Nothing, however, quite matches the modern GOP.

To those millions of Americans who have finally begun paying attention to politics and watched with exasperation the tragicomedy of the debt ceiling extension, it may have come as a shock that the Republican Party is so full of lunatics. To be sure, the party, like any political party on earth, has always had its share of crackpots, like Robert K. Dornan or William E. Dannemeyer. But the crackpot outliers of two decades ago have become the vital center today: Steve King, Michele Bachman (now a leading presidential candidate as well), Paul Broun, Patrick McHenry, Virginia Foxx, Louie Gohmert, Allen West. The Congressional directory now reads like a casebook of lunacy.

It was this cast of characters and the pernicious ideas they represent that impelled me to end a nearly 30-year career as a professional staff member on Capitol Hill. A couple of months ago, I retired; but I could see as early as last November that the Republican Party would use the debt limit vote, an otherwise routine legislative procedure that has been used 87 times since the end of World War II, in order to concoct an entirely artificial fiscal crisis. Then, they would use that fiscal crisis to get what they wanted, by literally holding the US and global economies as hostages.

The debt ceiling extension is not the only example of this sort of political terrorism. Republicans were willing to lay off 4,000 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) employees, 70,000 private construction workers and let FAA safety inspectors work without pay, in fact, forcing them to pay for their own work-related travel - how prudent is that? - in order to strong arm some union-busting provisions into the FAA reauthorization.

Everyone knows that in a hostage situation, the reckless and amoral actor has the negotiating upper hand over the cautious and responsible actor because the latter is actually concerned about the life of the hostage, while the former does not care. This fact, which ought to be obvious, has nevertheless caused confusion among the professional pundit class, which is mostly still stuck in the Bob Dole era in terms of its orientation. For instance, Ezra Klein wrote of his puzzlement over the fact that while House Republicans essentially won the debt ceiling fight, enough of them were sufficiently dissatisfied that they might still scuttle the deal. Of course they might - the attitude of many freshman Republicans to national default was "bring it on!"

It should have been evident to clear-eyed observers that the Republican Party is becoming less and less like a traditional political party in a representative democracy and becoming more like an apocalyptic cult, or one of the intensely ideological authoritarian parties of 20th century Europe.

http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all-reflections-gop-operative-who-left-cult/1314907779

Read it all if you dare.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 179
view profile
History
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/4/2011 11:14:44 AM

2 Wars ongoing, guess what they still cost us money, funny to see how the Libs ignore the cost of the ongoing wars now that Obama is President.
Ya ... I'm guessing the only reason you know that is because the wars are now IN the budget.

Show us a budget "Dumbya" ever gave us where the wars were included. I recall that he often went to Congress for "funding" the troops (ie the illegal wars) but I can't recall seeing the illegal wars on any line in any budget he gave us. Can you show us ... please!!!

The Repugnicans and Teabaggers are big on condemning any kind of spending without funding, but please show us (and this should be good) where "Dumbya" funded his two illegal wars.

The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party ... embracing the Teabaggers. I do believe they will very much regret that move. They already do. Thanks to our Teabagger governor ... Ohio will make quick work of SB5. I predict the majority will vote "No" on Issue 2.

And I hope when the time comes, the citizens of Ohio will vote against re-electing Kasich ... the guy who got rich while Ohio seniors lost their pension money ... only about $480 million.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 180
view profile
History
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/4/2011 3:32:56 PM

You mean like Ron Paul? He has never come close to a victory as a presidential candidate. Policies and integrity are one thing; charisma and electability are another. Many of his ideas are pretty radical and extreme. He has few political allies, and the corporate media certainly doesn't want to give him too much of a voice.

Paul is a well-meaning politician with integrity-- a rare description. But he is not really "electable." He doesn't even want the office that badly. He'd rather that his ideas get implemented than actually become president.

The Republican's problem is that they NEED the fervor of the religious right to get the majority vote, as halftime said. The loyal Republicans who do not hold an evangelical Christian worldview are in a very small minority.

Ron Paul's ideas aren't extreme. In fact, 80 years ago they were common sense.

Let me rephrase that: not all Ron Paul's ideas are extreme. He is not a viable candidate because of the way he espouses them, and to the extent he does so. Republicans who do not hold an evangelical worldview are not a very small minority, but their numbers are dwindling. But more important than the evangelical vote is the moderates. And the Republicans do not appeal to the moderates because they have allowed their party to be represented by the extremists.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 181
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/4/2011 4:22:38 PM
"Ron Paul's ideas aren't extreme. In fact, 80 years ago they were common sense.

Let me rephrase that: not all Ron Paul's ideas are extreme. He is not a viable candidate because of the way he espouses them, and to the extent he does so. Republicans who do not hold an evangelical worldview are not a very small minority, but their numbers are dwindling. But more important than the evangelical vote is the moderates. And the Republicans do not appeal to the moderates because they have allowed their party to be represented by the extremists. "

Paul wants to return to the gold standard. Not only is the idea ridiculous, it's impossible. That should be enough right there to show he's not a serious candidate, theres his stance on allowing a return to discrimination. No, I don't give a damn HOW you try to phrase it, thats what it is. The fact that groups like StormFront LOVE them some Ron Paul should be warning enough.

Personally, I think he should be apologizing everyday for inflicting his idiotic son on our goverment as well.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 182
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/4/2011 8:49:04 PM

But more important than the evangelical vote is the moderates. And the Republicans do not appeal to the moderates because they have allowed their party to be represented by the extremists. "


You have it backwards. That should say "Democrats do not appeal to the moderates because they have allowed their party to be represented by the extremists."

Moderates, as usual, will flee The Democratic party like a 3 alarm fire whenever an left coast/New England/ adversarial liberal runs for president. That is how Reagan & Bush won twin terms when the nation had a roughly 2/3 democratic-leaning edge..

Here's a good example: In 2000 & 2004, Democrats outnumbered Republicans by a rough ballpark 3-2 margin.(72 million vs. 55 million) The majority of Independents (42 million) are either former Democrats, or Democratic-leaning moderates that were chased out . That wildcard Independent swing SHOULD give a roughly two-thirds traditional Democrat-leaning ideological majority that I quoted, but it doesnt.

Moderates gladly switch sides when given a choice between an adversarial liberal, or a conservative. Adversarial liberals still dont understand that we moderate Democrats will pick the lesser of 2 evils when given that choice. Reagan & Bush are glaring proof of that. If not, we would have had Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, or Kerry as 2-term presidents.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 183
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/4/2011 10:36:15 PM
Neopoli, please explain to us, in this age of Teabaggers showing up at town halls with assault rifles, enagaging in eliminationist diatribes, and bending over backwards to pretend the violence from the right isn't the result of their rhetoric, please tell us what
"Extremists" on the left you refer to. Because you're going to have a tough row to hoe trying to top the above.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 184
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 8:27:06 AM
Well, a few examples for starters would be, extremists such as animal rights activists raiding medical research facilities where many Democrats are employed & destroying property, following hunters, (many of them Democrats), into the woods in organized attempts to assault, harrass & intimidate sportsmen, environmentalists chaining themselves to trees, sabatoging construction equipment & jeapordizing innocent workers, ( many of them Democrats), ....and protesting at workplaces & facilities they deem "environmentally unfriendly" with full intention of curtailing production, and/or shutting them down, at the expense of the well paid unionized, mostly mainstream moderate Democratic workforce, in in order to further their green agenda that holds no tread with the majority mainstream. Dont forget erase former Democratic support of the victims of all this, & add it to the other side.

Plus, the moniker "teabagger" that you throw around with 5th grade swagger, is only composed of about 60+% Republicans. The rest are Democrats & Independents who will NOT vote for your adversarial liberal hero. But those like me, who are not "teabaggers" but just MODERATE democrats, are so tired of our party giving us adversarial liberal philosophical left-coast/New England liberals for our candidates, that we form an unlikely alliance against you. This is your own doing.

The moderate Democrats are the majority of middle class. but there is no room for ANY OTHER philosophy in today's Democratic party for anybody other than adversarial liberals. Nothing else will be tolerated.

Anyhow, since registered Democrats outnumber Republicans by nearly 3 to 2, & due to of the rest of us, we DO vote for Republicans. Why?? Because limousine liberals mock, deride & sneer at our beliefs, & paint us with all with NEOCON pant, & dismiss us out-of hand.


The party's own exclusive philosophies were the reason Bush 43 won 2 terms. Same for Reagan. Go back & look at who the Dem candidates were(left coast/New England liberals), & you'll see the connection. Why does this have to be explained to you more than once?



Again, due to limousine liberal control, the Democratic party DOESNT embrace, or at least tolerate some of these principles that HALF of fellow Democrats embrace.
One issue voters are always a large part of any constituancy. Gun rights is a perfect example. Close to half of NRA members are present or former Democrats.

Thats why half of democrats routinely switch sides time & time again. Their one- issue philosophy results in the sucessful election of their moderate/conservative Democratic governers & senators, but they NEVER have anybody from their party to elect at the presidential level..havent for decades. Why??

Its a no-brainer. Tolerate some of these issues, promise fair representation & inclusion of ALL beliefs of the WHOLE Democratic party(yes, liberals must acknowlege that moderate/conservative Democrats exist & are actually living, breathing human beings within the party), bend on some adversarial liberal positions(fat chance) & you will never see another GOP president in your lifetime.

Dont believe me? When our neighboring state like West Virginia(OVERWHELMINGLY 2/3 registered Democrat) goes red for the 3rd presidential election cycle in a row, that should tell even the most obtuse adversarial liberal that, hey.....what are we doing WRONG within OUR party(not just yours)?
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 185
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 8:49:45 AM
Itechman-- thanks for the kind words. Likewise on all of your contributions.

OT: Paul's ideas not radical nor extreme?

Lets see:

-abolish the CIA, the IRS, the Dept of Education, and probably numerous other alphabet bureaus-- EPA, FBI, NASA, FDA, FEMA, NSA...

-abolish the income tax (sure, sounds really nice on the face of it)

-reestablish the gold standard (perhaps on the right track but a bad choice of securities)

-no federal assistance to the states, even in cases of natural disasters and emergencies (a principle he regularly violates in representing his own district)

-no Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid

-suggesting that airlines handle their own security individually-- perhaps allowing passengers to pack heat...

Yeah guys, I'm gonna have to stand by what I said.

I'll probably still vote for him in the primaries-- he's the only one who hasn't sold out to the corporations.


Well, a few examples for starters would be, extremists such as animal rights activists raiding medical research facilities where many Democrats are employed & destroying property, following hunters, (many of them Democrats), into the woods in organized attempts to assault, harrass & intimidate sportsmen, environmentalists chaining themselves to trees, sabatoging construction equipment & jeapordizing innocent workers, ( many of them Democrats), ....and protesting at workplaces & facilities they deem "environmentally unfriendly" with full intention of curtailing production, and/or shutting them down, at the expense of the well paid unionized, mostly mainstream moderate Democratic workforce, in in order to further their green agenda that holds no tread with the majority mainstream. Dont forget erase former Democratic support of the victims of all this, & add it to the other side.

Right. Now, connect these fringe groups to the Dems who have run for president in the past and lost because of those extreme connections.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 186
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 11:08:50 AM
Neopoli, I call them teabaggers because thats the name they chose for themselves. It shows the lack of depth and ignorance they have and that they still cling to. Don't rag on me for using THEIR terms. They picked it.

You're REALLY going to try and equate the realtively few and heavily marginalized PETA nuts to the say 400% increase in death threats to the president, the 28+ overtly VIOLENT acts (Thats actual, gun slinging violence we're talking about here, bombs and bullets flying, not a bunch of half arsed college kids stomping through the forest scaring off game) that have happened since Obama took office that can be directly traced back to right wing eliminationist rhetoric? Seriously?

It ain't the bunny huggers flying planes into the IRS building, or trying to blow up the Tides Foundation and kill everyone inside, or killing cops who get in their way. It ain't liberals who are showing up at town hall meetings wearing tactical gear and carrying pistols and assault weapons, talking about "if ballots don't work bullets will".

Heres a short list, if you're actually interested in anything resembling the truth. But comparing people scaring off game from hunters to actual physical violence? Ridiculous.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201010260050
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 187
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 11:50:21 AM
Dang ..Really..Media matters reported all of those allegations?....

progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media.
SO a progressive organization reports a bunch of allegations against unknown allegedly conservative perpetrators...wow!

"At Media Matters inception wealthy, liberal donors connected to the Democratic party gave Media Matters $2 million, and according to Byron York, additional funding came from MoveOn.org and the New Democrat Network."
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 188
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 12:17:29 PM
Don't be disingenuous, Un. It's unseemly and an obvious ploy.

Those storys are collected from various media outlets, local and national. You canverify them from those various sources to your hearts content. Why not address the message, instead of trying to kill the messenger?
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 189
view profile
History
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 12:31:47 PM

Paul wants to return to the gold standard. Not only is the idea ridiculous, it's impossible. That should be enough right there to show he's not a serious candidate, theres his stance on allowing a return to discrimination. No, I don't give a damn HOW you try to phrase it, thats what it is. The fact that groups like StormFront LOVE them some Ron Paul should be warning enough.

It is indeed impossible and ridiculous. I wasn't advocating for him as a candidate, but simply saying many of his ideas are not ridiculous.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 190
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 4:03:02 PM

You're REALLY going to try and equate the realtively few and heavily marginalized PETA nuts to the say 400% increase in death threats to the president..


LMAO...all of your information is 3 YEARS OLD....its from the first 7 months of his presidency. Bush had the same 400% increase from adversarial liberal extremists during the first 6 months when HE took office in 2000. Do you think we are stupid? This is how you continually get duped by alarmist agendist blog sites that you swallow withiout chewing.

This alarmist 400% number is drawn from the first 7 months in office where the most activity of this type occurs. That was is the highwater period for Obama threats, hence the 3x statistic.

Bush averaged 10 threats per day from adversarial liberal extremists & had an 8 year average of highs & lows, numbering into the tens of thousands . The very same adversarial liberal extremists in post #189 that you are trying to dismiss as harmless.

The first 7 month period of Bush's presidency matched or exceeded Obama's temporary alarmist snapshot threat number. In other words, if Obama serves 8 years, his threat numbers would quite probably end up averaging the same as Bush, or any other president for that matter.

P.S.: Teabagger" is a sexual slur spread by adversarial liberals. They prefer to be called "Tea Partiers". Rachael Maddow was one of the first to use the slur on mass media when she said "Even Governor Mark Sanford of South Carolina is getting in on the hot tea-bagging action,", then laughed, on her show in early 2009. It caught fire in liberal circles & went from there.

In the spirit of reciprocity, I should be calling you a "libtard", but I refuse to stoop to childish namecalling of that level. Back off a notch, please.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 191
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 5:01:45 PM
So sorry for your problem with the name, but no, I won't. They chose the name and rallied around it. You don't get to make up your own facts. They picked the name, they were happy wiht the name, until someone pointed out that it already had a prior and hilariously ironic usage. I don't really give a flip what they prefer to be called. They're thugs and terrorists and don't have our nations best interests at heart. They have no business at the grown up table, much less dictating terms to the GOP.

So no, I think I will continue using the word they chose. If they weren't smart enough to do a little fact check for possible negative connotations, thats on them. It's indicative of their lack of knowlege and sense overall. Do you get it now? It ain't a slur, because they CHOSE to lable themselves thusly.

The Treasury dept still maintains that Obama has gotten, and still continues to recieve, more death threats than any president EVER, and has since day one. You calling them a liar?

Bottom line, you're desperately trying to equate some bunny huggers in the woods making a racket to actual documented right wing violence, and it's ridiculous. Worse, it makes you look ridiculous with the effort. Over 28 or so actual violent acts in the last 2 years committed by the right wing, acts that have caused actual loss of life and physical injury, and you want to compare that to PETA scaring off bambi so hunters can't shoot them.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 192
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 6:15:24 PM

I don't buy the idea that the Tea Party is only 60% Republican when 100% of their elected leaders are Republican. They never even put a Dem or Independent on any ticket. The one thing they can agree on is that they hate Obama, Pelosi and Reid; all Of which are Democrats.


Below is a CBS news story. Unlike some posters on here, I bypassed a dozen or more agendist extremist blog sites in favor of a reliable trustworthy source, as I usually try to do. I'm sure the numbers would/could/do differ wildly on all the other agendist/extremist sites, in order to glorify their accompanying agenda.



Tea Party: 4 in 10 are Dems, Independents, Survey Says

More than four in 10 self-described members of the Tea Party also identify as either Independents or Democrats, according to a recently released, comprehensive survey.

Yet the Tea Party's priority appears to be fiscal conservatism, and the group by large margins trusts Republicans in Congress over Democrats to solve the country's problems.


In a collection of three national surveys conducted by the Winston Group, 57 percent of Tea Party members called themselves Republicans while 28 percent said they were Independents, and 13 percent said they were Democrats. Two-thirds of the group identified as conservative, but 26 percent said they are moderate and 8 percent called themselves liberal.

Seventeen percent of people surveyed said they were "part of the Tea Party movement."

While a sizable portion of tea partiers identify as Independent or Democrat, they overwhelmingly disapprove of President Obama. In the February survey conducted by Winston, 81 percent of Tea Party members said they disapprove of the job Mr. Obama is doing as president, compared with 44 percent of people overall who said they disapproved.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20001743.html
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 193
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 6:48:15 PM
There's a lot in that story that doesn't make sense. Sorry. If they disapprove of Obama at rates nearly twice the general population, then it's pretty unlikely there are really many Democrats or Independents. And if they vote the straight Republican ticket, it doesn't matter much what they tell a pollster. They're probably Republicans who are too ashamed to identify as such because of the extraordinarily disastrous previous administration.

But what really gets me is how a supposed "mainstream" news agency lets them get away with calling themselves fiscal conservatives. You can't call yourself a fiscal conservative unless you're advocating tax hikes. It's simple arithmetic. There have been decades of cuts, to the point where criminals have taken over entire areas of the economy - there can't be more significant cuts. There has to be more revenue.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 194
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 6:51:08 PM

The Treasury dept still maintains that Obama has gotten, and still continues to recieve, more death threats than any president EVER, and has since day one. You calling them a liar?


I dont know who is lying, or skewing, or twisting. Somebody is. Post your quote/source so we can decide.

Here is what U.S. Secret Service Director Mark Sullivan said:



U.S. Secret Service Director Mark Sullivan dismissed published reports that the level of death threats against President Obama are four times greater than typical threat levels against recent presidents — claiming the current volume of threats is comparable to that under George W. Bush and Bill Clinton.

"It's not [a] 400 percent [increase]," Sullivan said during a heated exchange with Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.), who suggested the service needed additional agents to protect the first African-American president.

"I'm not sure where that number comes from," he said, adding that the number of threats against Obama "are the same level as it has been [against] the last two presidents."

Sullivan said he would get more specific in a closed-door session with members of the Homeland Security Committee.


Again, this all popped up at the start of President Obama's term 3 YEARS AGO & caused a stir. Issue was discussed & resolved behind closed doors, because the Secret Service doesnt discuss its operations, or comment publicly on anything. No more reports about this since.....but somebody continues to dig up this 3 year old body & prop it up in its coffin to further an agenda.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 195
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 8:29:34 PM
Neo, you're still ducking and dodging the real issue, but keep dancing man. I ain't seen footwork like this since Micheal Jackson snuffed it.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 196
view profile
History
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 9:41:30 PM

You can't call yourself a fiscal conservative unless you're advocating tax hikes. It's simple arithmetic. There have been decades of cuts,

I'd posted this two years ago in response to one of your posts:

From 1970 to 1995 social welfare expenditures in the US have increased from $2,454 (per capita) to $5,622.... that's in adjusted for inflation 1995 dollars. These numbers were supplied by the US census bureau and you can have a better look at all of the figures here:

http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/598_social_welfare_expenditures_under_public_programs.html

Now for some reason I still can't find any numbers newer than 1995, but I did find another site that listed these social expenditures as a percentage of the GDP.... 11.0% in 1965 versusus 20.9% in 1995. You can see those numbers here:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104767.html

So.... it's possible that there's been 16 years of cuts to these social programs, but that's not the same as decades.... and until I see some actual numbers since '95, I'm not inclined to believe there has been significant cuts at all.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 197
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 9:53:34 PM
You're quoting stats from before the Welfare Reform Act of 96. The reason you can't find newer figures is because the numbers would belie the notion that poor people are taking from hard working Americans. There are no interest groups looking to publish those numbers. That Act would be one of the examples of "decades of cuts."

There are no cops left to police Wall Street, or coal mine owners, or deep sea drilling outfits, or polluters, or, hell, name any industry where money can be made if you break the law. Even the ATF can only put gas in their cars 2 weeks a month.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 198
view profile
History
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 10:26:48 PM

There are no interest groups looking to publish those numbers.

If these cuts are indeed significant, there should be plenty of left-leaning news sources that would be falling all over themselves trying to publish these figures... some of these sources have big bankrolls behind them (how much was the Huffington Post sold for again?). As I said, until I see some proof I'm having trouble swallowing this. And again, 16 years does not constitute decades...



427cammer said: "I also mentioned earlier that the US now has the highest corporate tax rates in the world.... do you agree with me that this has the potential to hurt your economy?"

Problem is, those taxes aren't being PAID.

.... well, you should of read my next post down where I quoted a piece from the NY Times:

The average total tax rate for the 500 companies over the last five years — again, including federal, state, local and foreign corporate taxes — was 32.8 percent. Among those paying more than the average were Exxon Mobil, FedEx, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, Starbucks, Wal-Mart and Walt Disney.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/business/economy/02leonhardt.html

He's talking about fortune 500 companies. The first time I posted this I was accused of cherrypicking these companies, and I let it slide. The author clearly states "The average total tax rate for the 500 companies over the last five years" and later goes on "Among those paying more than the average were ..." I didn't manipulate anything.

So... according to this article, on average these companies do pay taxes. Now I have no idea about the tax holidays you speak of, or which corporations are doing this... if it's being done it should be stopped. Have you got any sources where I could go and find out for myself?

Neo, you're still ducking and dodging the real issue, but keep dancing man. I ain't seen footwork like this since Micheal Jackson snuffed it.

He gives you a quote from the U.S. Secret Service Director (who, more than anybody would know this information) that completely contradicts your earlier statement... then he asks for some verification from you, which you dodge (big surprise)... and you accuse him of dancing??
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 199
view profile
History
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/5/2011 11:18:42 PM
Halftime:

I looked up the US budget from 2008 here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_federal_budget#Total_spending

...and I found this:

$608 billion (+4.5%) - Social Security
$386 billion (+5.2%) - Medicare
$209 billion (+5.6%) - Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)
$324 billion (+1.8%) - Unemployment/Welfare/Other mandatory spending
..........
$69.3 billion (+0.3%) - Department of Health and Human Services
$56.0 billion (+0.0%) - Department of Education
$39.4 billion (+18.7%) - Department of Veterans Affairs
$35.2 billion (+1.4%) - Department of Housing and Urban Development

Which totals out at $1.73 trillion, or 12.1% of the 2008 GDP ($14.3 trillion).

So... assuming I did the math right, and I didn't miss any big expenditures, then it would appear that you were correct. At least as measured by percentage of GDP, these numbers have fallen (close to 1965 levels if I'm correct).

I would still like to see the numbers laid out neatly as they were in the first source I gave you... it'd give me a better understanding.

And I still think North Americans have massive entitlement issues.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 200
The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party
Posted: 9/6/2011 7:23:05 AM

and I didn't miss any big expenditures


Gee it seems that you missed the 2 greatest discressionary expenses...you had to cut and paste "around" them:

$481.4 billion (+12.1%) - Department of Defense
$145.2 billion (+45.8%) - Global War on Terror



The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party


The biggest problem with the GOP???Well, in the upcoming presidential electioons they present the greater choice of the bad choices for president...Bachmann, Perry, and Romney...I often wonder what ever happened to all the "moderate republicans?"
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > The Republicans Single Greatest Problem as a Party