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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner i      Home login  
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 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 26
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheatingPage 2 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)

you dont go snooping into other peoples personal affairs......EVER!!

When you get married, you aren't meant to have personal affairs that are separate from your spouse. If I ever get married again, my husband would have full freedom to check what he wanted: phone, letters, email or whatever.
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 27
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 5:48:53 AM
I think if a spouse has a suspiscion that thier mate is cheating, they should be allowed to check all forms of communication. If it were me, I know I would. To ignore those signs and pretend nothing is wrong is just a stupid thing to do, with deadly diseases out there. I would try to get him to talk to me first, maybe sort some things out verbally...however, if the feeling that 'something is amiss' just wont go away, I will snoop to find the truth...before I leave him.

I firmly believe once you have to resort to snooping, it is over. The lines of respect are gone. The person hiding things is not showing respect, and the one snooping has also resorted to showing no respect.

People shouldnt let it get that far, but they do....out of a sense of "I shouldnt be so suspiscious'...and it bites them, pretty much everytime.

If I were the judge in this case, Id toss out the complaint, as it did net an affair. If he had snooped, found nothing, and was caught, Id say the lady has a case...but seeing as he found proof of what he suspected in first place, Id boot her azz/case out pretty fast if I were judge.
 DrummingNut
Joined: 4/26/2010
Msg: 28
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 6:17:58 AM
To hack into someone else's account.. ANY kind of account.. should very well be against the law, and punishable if caught and proven.
Note the word "account". Shared computer or not.
Where do you draw the line?
It's okay to hack just for the giggle of it, something to do that day?
It's okay to hack "only" to read personal stuff and not copy it?
It's okay to hack and steal $5 from a bank account, but not $500?
It's okay if it's your husband's account?
It's okay if it's an email account and not a bank account?
It's okay if you think they're cheating?
I don't think there should be any line drawn.. I think it should be a blanket "do not hack into anyone's account".

The only way I see it as "shouldn't be against the law and punishable" is your own .. under your care.. children UNDER THE ADULT AGE of your state/country.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 29
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History
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 6:23:30 AM
I'm certainly not a lawyer, but when you share a computer there has to be a certain amount of lenience given to the partner.
I don't believe in snooping, opening mail or checking each others phones for calls and texts. They are not the actions of a grownup.
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 2/21/2010
Msg: 30
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 6:32:19 AM
My husband and I are careless with each other's pins and passwords, not only do we freely tell the other, but we both forget and we each have to repeat them, later. We don't snoop because we just don't have any need to, and it's darn hard to call it snooping when it's freely shared, anyway.

Why snoop if you feel your spouse is cheating? If you find you were paranoid, you will probably keeping snooping til you do find evidence and once you find it, you won't be any happier. If your feelings are that strong, walk away. One of you is wrong, and the wrong can't be fixed by snooping.
 Munchausen
Joined: 11/28/2010
Msg: 31
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 7:16:16 AM

Does this have the potential to effect relationships in the future?

I think it's more a symptom of the past than anything else.
I don't think this lawsuit will have a significant impact or effect on relationships in the future.
What it's a symptom of will though.


Do you think it should apply to cell phones and all other mediums of personal and private interaction?

Depends if they share a cell phone and other mediums of personal and private interaction.


Do you think it's ridiculous?

More sad and petty than ridiculous, unless he used it to cause harm to something other than the relationship.
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 32
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 7:26:30 AM
That's absolute insanity on its peak. If a guy finds out that his wife is cheating then SHE should be the one on trial and not him. In some countries she'd shot or stoned.
 TerrieLynnC
Joined: 7/4/2007
Msg: 33
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 7:28:09 AM
I agree with a lot of points made here on this. Especially muchausen and femaleconnection and the guy that said if its on the books to be thrown in jail for cheating..throw 'em in there.

When your married, IMO, it's just not right to hide things. I think the wife in this case is just pissed because she got caught. What's done in the dark always comes to the light. And most have to learn that the hard way. It might take awhile but it always comes out.

If you ask me the issue isn't even the email, the bigger issue is that the wife cheated.
 I-am-Rei
Joined: 9/11/2009
Msg: 34
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 7:55:21 AM

Does this have the potential to effect relationships in the future?

It is because it is about trust and respect.


Do you think it should apply to cell phones and all other mediums of personal and private interaction?

A person who respect their partner will not use or read or snoop on their partners phones, et al. A partner who has nothing to hide will have no qualms if their partner look into their gadgets. Again, trust and respect.


Do you think it's ridiculous?

There are laws about adultery and concubinage. There are laws about computer hacking, invasion of privacy or whatever. As they say, the law maybe harsh but it is the law.
 Helen0426
Joined: 6/2/2009
Msg: 35
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 9:21:39 AM
From the article:

They have charged him with unauthorized access to a computer in order to “acquire, alter, damage, delete or destroy property.”

Antiquated law to apply to a current situation, indeed! I do not think a conviction is possible if this is the charge since none of these things appears to apply. "Information-seeking" does not seem to be covered therein.

And I don't think any spouse has a reasonable expectation of privacy when it comes to hiding an affair!
 niagara45
Joined: 8/15/2010
Msg: 36
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 9:27:26 AM

If a guy finds out that his wife is cheating then SHE should be the one on trial and not him.


Adultery is not a crime where I live.


In some countries she'd shot or stoned.


Would you like that?
 myrgth
Joined: 8/15/2009
Msg: 37
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For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 9:48:33 AM
More information from an article in USA TODAY:

A Michigan man faces up to 5 years in prison for reading his wife's e-mail to find out if she was having an affair, the Detroit Free Press reports.

The newspaper says Leon Walker, 33, of Rochester Hills, has been charged with a felony after reading Clara Walker's GMail account on a laptop the now-divorced couple shared. He goes to trial in February.

Oakland County prosecutors used a state statute typically used to prosecute crimes like identity theft or stealing trade secrets, the newspaper says.

Leon, Clara Walker's third husband, found out in an e-mail that she was having an affair with her second husband, who was once arrested for beating her in front of her small son. Leon Walker showed the e-mail to that son's father, Clara's first husband, who filed an emergency motion to obtain custody.

"I was doing what I had to do," Leon Walker, a computer technician, tells the Free Press. "We're talking about putting a child in danger."

Oakland County prosecutor Jessica Cooper, in a voice mail to the newspaper, calls Walker a skilled "hacker" who used his wife's e-mail "in a contentious way."

In preliminary testimony, Clara testified that while Leon had bought her that laptop, it was hers alone and that she kept the password a secret.

Leon Walker says he routinely used the computer and that she kept all of her passwords in a small book next to it. "It was a family computer," he says. "I did work on it all the time."
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 38
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 11:58:24 AM

Note the word "account". Shared computer or not.
Where do you draw the line?

In all likelyhood, by who owns the computer, the terms of service that apply to the system and the privacy policy that applies to the system. If the mail is physically stored on a computer owned by both the husband and wife, I can't see how either party could have any expectation of privacy. If the mail was stored on a gmail server, then it's possible that one might interpret the law in the way it's being interpreted. On the other hand, by filing the charge, the question would be whether or not the wife gave her password to her husband. If she gave it to him voluntarily, then the law might also make that an offense, since technically, you cannot give out passwords you aren't authorized to give out (at leat according to the computer misuse act in Texas). If you want to overreach to that extent, the overreaching cuts both ways. The husband can't be both authorized and not authorized for access and if the person with the password to an account had authorization to share the password with another person, the law on computer misuse would be pointless. If I were his attorney, I'd argue that she gave him the password voluntarily.
 dondea
Joined: 12/10/2007
Msg: 39
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For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 12:39:25 PM
For Helen0426:

In my state when obtaining information, whether electronically or physically, the word "...aquire...." would be considered the same thing as "information-seeking" because the information was taken without the knowledge of the person who wrote it or owned the account.

JMO: I think the charge against the 3rd husband should be dropped. She got caught cheating and it should be part of the divorce proceedings because of the alleged violent past with her 2nd husband. The 3rd husband may have in good faith tried to protect her child while he was getting back at her. Like others have said, let 'em fight it out in divorce court.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 40
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/28/2010 4:57:01 PM
We have killers and rapists walking around free and some jackazz DA is prosecuting a guy for looking at a cheaters e-mail!
And people wonder why this country is in the shape it is.
 Helen0426
Joined: 6/2/2009
Msg: 41
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/29/2010 1:19:47 AM

gotta love americans and their sue first never ask any questions later..

Nobody's suing here (yet, anyway). He's being prosecuted! That's very, very different.

To dondea, the statute refers specifically to "property." The man didn't acquire any property, including intellectual property, through this action, nor is it, in my view, reasonably arguable that it was his intent to do so.

IMO the prosecutor is out to make a name for himself. Which he will, but probably not the kind he had in mind. The charge is ridiculous.

I can't imagine being in a marriage wherein we didn't share e-mail account information anyway, just in case of emergency. My close family members have mine and I theirs. Should one of us become hospitalized or something, it's nice to know there's a "second" on hand to create an auto-response and deal with anything pressing.

In this instance, I think it'll be a very successful defense, should it even come to that (I strongly suspect it won't), that if one expects privacy, one doesn't keep passwords written down next to a shared family computer!
 DrummingNut
Joined: 4/26/2010
Msg: 42
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/29/2010 2:11:37 AM

The man didn't acquire any property, including intellectual property, through this action, nor is it, in my view, reasonably arguable that it was his intent to do so.
I thought he copied the mail? Sent it on to someone else, too. Sounds like "acquiring" to me.
In this case I doubt it can be proven he did it underhandedly.
BUT.. I still stand by this: no one should be able to get away with hacking into any sort of account, of anyone, if it can be proven they did so.

Yes, as someone mentioned, we have big crimes to worry about in these days. Well, actually we've always had big crimes to worry about.
So do we just ignore all the little crimes? "Go ahead and do the little things, we're only going to go after the big ones"?
Is that how people want to live their lives now?
"We have murderers to go after, stop going after the little guy" is not going to be any comfort to me when someone does a 'little thing' against me.

"Stone HER.. she committed the bigger crime".. someone said.
Yes, she did wrong.. and it may be against (probably so) the law of her state.
So yes, she SHOULD face punishment, if it can be proven.
But he also did a crime, according to what's written in the law, so he also should face the consequences, if it can be proven.

And the person who said the "you americans" bullsh1t.. what utopia do you live in?
I did not know there was a country on this world that was perfect with perfect people.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 43
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/29/2010 5:37:13 AM

So do we just ignore all the little crimes? "Go ahead and do the little things, we're only going to go after the big ones"?


Ok then why isn't she being prosecuted for the adultery then?
It is a "small" crime as well!




THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931
Chapter V
ADULTERY
Back to Infidelity Cases

*
750.29 Adultery; definition.
Sec. 29.

Definition - Adultery is the sexual intercourse of 2 persons, either of whom is married to a third person.
*
750.30 Adultery; punishment.
Sec. 30.

Punishment - Any person who shall commit adultery shall be guilty of a felony; and when the crime is committed between a married woman and a man who is unmarried, the man shall be guilty of adultery, and liable to the same punishment.
*
750.31 Adultery; complaint and time of prosecution.
Sec. 31.

Complainant and time prosecution to be commenced - No prosecution for adultery, under the preceding section, shall be commenced, but on the complaint of the husband or wife; and no such prosecution shall be commenced after 1 year from the time of committing the offense.
*
750.32 Adultery; cohabitation of divorced parties.
Sec. 32.

Cohabitation by divorced parties - If any persons after being divorced from the bonds of matrimony for any cause whatever, shall cohabit together, they shall be liable to all the penalties provided by law against adultery.


My point was there are far more important crimes to prosecute than this and if the DA is going to charge one "small" crime he should charge the other "small" crime!
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 44
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History
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/29/2010 5:46:23 AM
I think this sort of snooping is... well, just not right.

On the other hand, it IS very different from opening mail - particularly in the US, where very strict federal mandates protect mail, as the founders wanted it to be a dependable infrastructure. Also why mail order in the US is much safer than internet commerce, which is not subject to the federal mail mandates.

Exactly what laws come into play with e-mail probably varies widely across jurisdictions, as it's a fairly new field.
ED BEAR
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 45
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/29/2010 11:05:22 AM

This might be a case of selective enforcement, I’m not in position to say. But in order for the prosecutor to charge her with adultery, he needs proof she did the deed with the other guy. That’s difficult to come by.


Yes but in this case we have her e-mails proving it so why is the husband being singled out?
The laws says the wife and the man she was with should be charged too.

So in this case if the DA is truly trying to clean up crime he/she would charge the wife and lover with adultery.

I see this as a case of sensationalism.......Something to grab headlines.....I don't see it going anywhere.

Just a DA looking for their 15 minutes of fame.
 fastdogphotog
Joined: 5/27/2008
Msg: 46
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History
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/29/2010 11:27:52 AM

In this instance, I think it'll be a very successful defense, should it even come to that (I strongly suspect it won't), that if one expects privacy, one doesn't keep passwords written down next to a shared family computer!


While I tend to agree with you, let me play devil's advocate and ask, does that mean, if you were to leave a journal or diary in a place where a spouse had access to it, that you would not have an expectation of privacy with respect to it's contents?



This might be a case of selective enforcement, I’m not in position to say. But in order for the prosecutor to charge her with adultery, he needs proof she did the deed with the other guy. That’s difficult to come by.


Yes but in this case we have her e-mails proving it so why is the husband being singled out?
The laws says the wife and the man she was with should be charged too.


In my experience and opinion, selective enforcement is the norm and not the exception. There are too many crimes being committed on a daily basis pretty much everywhere for the limited legal resources available to process and prosecute them. As a result, decision makers often have to arbitrarily pick which cases to move forward, which to let sit, and which to toss out.

As for the idea that the emails could be used to prove the adultery, my bet would be that they would be inadmissible as hearsay. Furthermore, assuming they could be admitted into evidence, and assuming that they included explicit reference to facts and events that would prove establish such a crime, the prosecution would still have to prove both the authenticity of the emails as well as the veracity of the contents. So what happens when the second husband says that the emails were all just an exercise in creative writing between him and his former wife? Very difficult to prove without a direct (peeping tom) witness who saw the actual act of adultery taking place.


So do we just ignore all the little crimes? "Go ahead and do the little things, we're only going to go after the big ones"?
Is that how people want to live their lives now?
"We have murderers to go after, stop going after the little guy" is not going to be any comfort to me when someone does a 'little thing' against me.


In a perfect world, every crime, no matter how big or how small, would be dealt with according to the applicable law(s). However, in the real world, it's just not possible to do that. So, unfortunately, the "little crimes" typically don't get prosecuted, or much white collar crime for that matter, unless it is a significant enough case, a media worthy case, or a situation where it is otherwise politically expedient to do so.


While that conduct violates the letter of the law, it lacks mens rea (and is done with consent - a clear counter indication of malintent).


Mens rea? Someone either went to law school or is well read. :)
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 47
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History
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/29/2010 2:12:10 PM
Just as I expected, now it is coming out that this was NOT a case of a married man checking up on his wife, using the family computer. It is a case of a DIVORCED man, breaking into his ex-wifes private email, as part of a general invasion of her privacy.
This should be most reasonably looked upon, as being functionally identical to someone opening your REGULAR mail without your permission, AFTER the two of you had your lives LEGALLY disentangled. He SHOULD be prosecuted.
I wont predict how the case might come out, because again, we DON'T HAVE ALL OF THE FACTS. All we have is a few clumsily written news blurbs. What I can say, is that in my opinion, it will not be justice for HER, if he is found to be within his rights to do what he did.
 niagara45
Joined: 8/15/2010
Msg: 48
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/29/2010 4:14:34 PM

Ok then why isn't she being prosecuted for the adultery then?
It is a "small" crime as well!


Duh. She isn't being prosecuted because adultery is not a crime.

At worst, it is a civil matter, as in the breaking of the marriage "contract".

When you cheat on your spouse the penalty is usually that you lose your spouse/marriage. Or not. You don't go to jail. Crime= jail.


So in this case if the DA is truly trying to clean up crime he/she would charge the wife and lover with adultery.


LOL. As if the DA or Crown Prosecutor give a flying **** about people who cheat on their spouses. If your partner cheats, leave. You don't need the government to fight that battle for you.


I see this as a case of sensationalism.......Something to grab headlines.....I don't see it going anywhere.


You couldn't be more wrong. This is an American case that is getting lots of news coverage in Canada and other countries as well. It is an important test case. The law is struggling to keep up with technology, and in this case, the "hacking" laws are being tested, and may well be drastically redefined in the near future. A lot of people will be watching this case very closely.
 TerrieLynnC
Joined: 7/4/2007
Msg: 49
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/29/2010 4:27:42 PM
Here's the latest:

(CNN) -- Leon Walker, a Detroit, Michigan, computer technician, faces a jury trial in February for allegedly hacking into his then-wife's e-mail account.

"She'd asked me to read her e-mails before," Walker said in an interview this week. "She gave me the password before. She didn't hide it."

Walker says the e-mails revealed that Clara Walker, who has been married three times, was having an affair with her second husband.

Walker, the third husband, shared the documents with his wife's first husband, who then used them to file an emergency motion to obtain custody of his son with Clara Walker. Leon Walker said he and the first husband were both concerned because, according to Walker, husband No. 2 had a prior arrest on a domestic violence charge.

"He took action with the courts to have himself protected and I took action with the court to have my daughter protected," Walker said.

When Clara Walker learned how the e-mails made their way into court, she complained to police.

Oakland County, Michigan, Prosecutor Jessica Cooper used a state anti-hacking law to charge Leon Walker with a felony.

Cooper did not immediately respond to CNN calls for comment, but the Detroit Free Press published a voice-mail from her.

"The guy is a hacker," Cooper told the newspaper. "It was password protected, he had wonderful skills, and was highly trained. Then he downloaded them and used them in a very contentious way."

The Michigan statute forbids someone from accessing "a computer program, computer, computer system or computer network" to acquire property "without authorization."

New York criminal defense lawyer Paul Callan said all 50 U.S. states have such laws, but he called this "a highly unusual use of a criminal statute."

The laws are typically used to prosecute "some technological guy who's broken into a company's computer system and damaged it or stolen something," Callan said.

Leon Walker's defense lawyer agreed.

"I find it so hard to believe that our legislature would enact a law and say 'You know what, if husbands and wives are reading each others' e-mail, that's a priority for us and we've got to stop that,'" attorney Leon Weiss said.

Walker said his decision to peek into his wife's e-mail account was like someone kicking in a door to save someone from a burning house.

"Do you kick the door open or do you let it burn?" Walker said. "I did what I felt was absolutely necessary."

Clara Walker responded in a written statement submitted by her attorney, saying "Leon is not the saint portrayed in the media."

"If you believe news reports you would think he was the faithful husband looking to protect my children. Nothing could be farther from the truth," she said.

The couple's divorce was finalized earlier this month.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 50
For those that have no qualms snooping to find out if their partner is cheating
Posted: 12/29/2010 4:42:55 PM


Duh. She isn't being prosecuted because adultery is not a crime.


You must have missed the posting of the law that says it is a felony in their state. I'll re-post.


THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931
Chapter V
ADULTERY
Back to Infidelity Cases

*
750.29 Adultery; definition.
Sec. 29.

Definition - Adultery is the sexual intercourse of 2 persons, either of whom is married to a third person.
*
750.30 Adultery; punishment.
Sec. 30.

Punishment - Any person who shall commit adultery shall be guilty of a felony; and when the crime is committed between a married woman and a man who is unmarried, the man shall be guilty of adultery, and liable to the same punishment.
*
750.31 Adultery; complaint and time of prosecution.
Sec. 31.

Complainant and time prosecution to be commenced - No prosecution for adultery, under the preceding section, shall be commenced, but on the complaint of the husband or wife; and no such prosecution shall be commenced after 1 year from the time of committing the offense.
*
750.32 Adultery; cohabitation of divorced parties.
Sec. 32.

Cohabitation by divorced parties - If any persons after being divorced from the bonds of matrimony for any cause whatever, shall cohabit together, they shall be liable to all the penalties provided by law against adultery.


So DUH.......it is a felony!



LOL. As if the DA or Crown Prosecutor give a flying **** about people who cheat on their spouses. If your partner cheats, leave. You don't need the government to fight that battle for you.


It is a felony just like he is charged with so they should treat it the same!


You couldn't be more wrong. This is an American case that is getting lots of news coverage in Canada and other countries as well. It is an important test case. The law is struggling to keep up with technology, and in this case, the "hacking" laws are being tested, and may well be drastically redefined in the near future. A lot of people will be watching this case very closely.


I could be wrong but I believe when the facts are presented he will walk.
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