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 AUTHOR
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 253
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their moneyPage 11 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)
WTF do romance novels and singles bars have to do with women tending to marry men with more education? Are Jim, Jack and Johnny helping you write your posts.
The issue of what skilled tradespersons make has been addressed. No one said that ALL tradespersons make this kind of money on a regular basis, it was NOTED that some of these incomes are in "boom" areas with skilled labor shortages. Heck I had a couple of cousins-one of them female, go work on the big Alaska Pipeline project and make big money operating heavy equipment.
People who wear Carhartts and work with their hands are every bit as good as people who wear ties and sit in offices. Most people marry who they marry because they LOVE them. It is not anything new that even women with professional occupations( or high-paying blue collar jobs) tend to marry men that are at least EQUAL earners, I think partly because the woman wants to know that taking some time off her career(or working reduced hours) to have children is not going to put the family in the poorhouse. And as others have observed, there still tends to be some male reluctance to form serious relationships with women who out-earn them. I'm sure that in a case where the woman develops a career and EVENTUALLY out earns her husband, that they adapt, though I have heard quite a bit of anecdotal information indicating that sometimes that adaptation is quite difficult,or that the marriage is negatively impacted if the wife becomes a higher earner.
Cindy O
 WaywardWynde
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 254
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 11:00:06 AM

WTF do romance novels and singles bars have to do with women "marrying men for their money" (quote edited to reflect the title of this thread)?


Expectations, hopes, dreams, "the way it is", as reflected in the mindsets of the readers of the romance novels who buy 55% of ALL paperback novels sold each year. Millions and millions and millions of readers.

Now, what those readers actually do, is they marry the boy next door, or at least lives within 5 miles of next door.

Those readers might judge romance novels to be "escapist" but can also build some resentment when they hear about "skilled tradesmen" pulling down two hundred grand a year (nevermind the Union Hall for the specific trade mentioned for the specific area mentioned states journeyman's wages for a worker working full weeks a full 50 weeks a year (no weather delays) makes 25% to 40% of that figure(*) ) while her man -- slug or hard worker, depending her view -- has a hard time paying the heat bills in winter.

Braggards in singles bars (and high school reunions) bump up their incomes even more so than when they are lying to the Census Bureau. Reality sux sometimes, but talk is easy. Never believe what a person says about their income until you see their bank statement. Better yet, their bank statements.

(*) To make two hundred grand in one year in that trade in that area, REQUIRES a journeyman to work 80 to 115 hours EVERY week for 50 weeks in a year. Even if that were economically possible, it is not physically possible, for as one trade worker said, "You gotta stay alive to spent it."
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 255
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 11:10:48 AM
^^^where do you live? Nobody I know except my mom reads romance novels. In fact, I don't hang around many women who do read those.

I think you are still living in some alternate universe or commercial on TV.

You need to get out more because I have never ever talked about incomes at a singles bar or a high school reunion - this sounds kinda age specific. In fact, I don't think I've ever had a man tell me how much money he makes and if he had, I'd be walking away.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 256
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 12:08:30 PM

but can also build some resentment when they hear about "skilled tradesmen" pulling down two hundred grand a year (nevermind the Union Hall for the specific trade mentioned for the specific area mentioned states journeyman's wages for a worker working full weeks a full 50 weeks a year (no weather delays) makes 25% to 40% of that figure(*) ) while her man -- slug or hard worker, depending her view -- has a hard time paying the heat bills in winter.

the only resentment being built up here is NOT from women.
I've NEVER had anyone tell me their income in any sort of social or casual situation, whether it was high tea with the Ladies Aid Society or a bar where musician friends were playing. I do occasionally run into snobs...usually ones with no cash to back their attitude, who have conniption fits when they find themselves in an environment where claims of money and education carry little weight.
Cindy O
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 257
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 12:28:02 PM

I've NEVER had anyone tell me their income in any sort of social or casual situation, whether it was high tea with the Ladies Aid Society or a bar where musician friends were playing. I do occasionally run into snobs...usually ones with no cash to back their attitude, who have conniption fits when they find themselves in an environment where claims of money and education carry little weight.


Thanks Cindy. What I find interesting is that we are almost 20 years apart in age and have experienced and feel the same way.

Do some men live on another planet? Maybe they are hermits, living on their sailboats with no link to society other than beer commercials. Sorry dude, but your posts really are coming across as lacking experience in some areas.
 WaywardWynde
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 258
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 12:58:09 PM
^^^ Annasthasia,

please take more care to quote me accurately, should you be inclined to quote me at all.

I never "worked on Wall Street", nor in any part of the financial world. I started out as an auto mechanic while in high school (I am decent at fixing things, my little bros is truly superior). Later I worked as a hired killer for my Uncle Sam (as a combat Marine), later yet wrote advertising (selling much and gained a good rep, but found the business way too unstable), and then spent the rest of my career as a communicator (in an area which extremely nicely took great advantage of my aptitude for the hard sciences).


Where I come from, women are not raised to act like stupid virgins and believe me their actualization goals are NOT to find a richer and/or better educated man.


Where I come from, EVERYONE (except the very young, the infirm, and the old folks) worked. Period. The watchword was, "You don't wanna work? You don't wanna eat."

I chose to be an "old folk" and retire because I wanted to do more sailing each summer.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 259
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 1:00:11 PM
romance novels??
Really??
The fact you think any sane woman believes the crap they put in those books.....speaks volumes of your character.....not the women's!!

Seems the one b!tching the loudest here.....is the one that feels the need to
brag the most about his supposed wealth! You get what you advertise for.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 260
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 1:03:06 PM

Now, what those readers actually do, is they marry the boy next door, or at least lives within 5 miles of next door.

Those readers might judge romance novels to be "escapist" but can also build some resentment when they hear about "skilled tradesmen" pulling down two hundred grand a year (nevermind the Union Hall for the specific trade mentioned for the specific area mentioned states journeyman's wages for a worker working full weeks a full 50 weeks a year (no weather delays) makes 25% to 40% of that figure(*) ) while her man -- slug or hard worker, depending her view -- has a hard time paying the heat bills in winter.


This I agree with somewhat.

Some not all women do compare reality to fantasy. And think the grass is greener on the other side.

They divorce hubby one for hubby two that makes more.
However some soon find that all is roses 45% of women in a study admitted they were sorry they divorced their first husband. And would go back if they could.

Now what I don't agree with........The journeyman can make around 30k in 2 months on a outage on their regular pay. Add in the per-deim at 70-100 dollars a day and you can see the money accumulates quickly. Not even accounting for retirement and health care.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 261
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 1:07:19 PM
I got into this thing for awhile, when describing an encounter with a snobbish, elitist individual or group, to say "Who the hell do they think they are? The Daughters of the American Revolution?"
A few years back one of my cousins took advantage of more leisure time afforded by an emptying nest, to research the geneaology of our family from our grandmother and grandfather back...guess what?
I could JOIN the D.A.R.
Who knew??!!
Cindy O
 WaywardWynde
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 262
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 1:20:37 PM

The fact you think any sane woman believes the crap they put in those books.....speaks volumes of your character.....not the women's!!


Harlequin buys and prints 115 romance novels EVERY month. Those novels are not thrown in a dumpster immediately after printing. In fact, Harlequin claims (justifiably or not, I do not know) that the "pass-a-long" readership of romance novels is FAR higher than any other genre.


Seems the one b!tching the loudest here.....is the one that feels the need to
brag the most about his supposed wealth! You get what you advertise for.


Other than a quality suit (worn at my daughter's wedding), there is absolutely nothing in my profile that says I "have wealth". I don't. (A quality, ocean-capable sailboat can be had for well less than the price of a decent used car. I know a guy who just bought a sailboat capable of circling the world for three thou. It's a good boat. I've sailed on it, and would take it offshore in heartbeat.)

When I changed out old pictures on my profile for newer ones (the only available to me were pics from my daughter's wedding), my response rate went UP 15 to 20 TIMES! No other change in my profile, which at that time was just the first paragraph. I added the rest of the paragraphs (all but the second) in a specific effort to reduce the response rate, specifically to try to eliminate the gold digger tone I got from most of the 15 to 20 times more responses. It worked (gold diggers usually take a pass on those with an athletic background). I added the now 2nd paragraph when a (woman) friend said perhaps I wanted to soften my profile a tad.

BTW, every last thing there is absolutely real, but I didn't included everything.

There is time for talking and time for doing. In the end, most people talk, few do. And that's a shame. They miss so much.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 263
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 1:36:59 PM

When I changed out old pictures on my profile for newer ones (the only available to me were pics from my daughter's wedding), my response rate went UP 15 to 20 TIMES! No other change in my profile, which at that time was just the first paragraph. I added the rest of the paragraphs (all but the second) in a specific effort to reduce the response rate, specifically to try to eliminate the gold digger tone I got from most of the 15 to 20 times more responses. It worked (gold diggers usually take a pass on those with an athletic background). I added the now 2nd paragraph when a (woman) friend said perhaps I wanted to soften my profile a tad.


Now this I can believe.

As I said some here act as if there are no women out there looking to marry up. That is a ridiculous stance.
Are all of course not but to act as if none are is delusional.
 tinkerbellcgy
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 264
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 2:57:15 PM

As I said some here act as if there are no women out there looking to marry up. That is a ridiculous stance.
Are all of course not but to act as if none are is delusional.

In order to have balance in this discussion, let's not forget the men who don't have a pot to pizz in and/or the higher society wannabes who are also looking to marry up. And don't try to brush this fact off as non-existent because it does indeed exist. I have been contacted by more ne'er do well men than I can count who have nothing to show for their existence on this earth yet appear to be more than willing to expect to share what a woman has acquired.

With respect to tradesmen earning $200,000.00 or more per annum in Alberta, I live in that province and a wage such as that is not unheard of here. I suspect all the poo-pooing on the part of the naysayer(s) that this couldn't possibly be true is probably a case of sour grapes as well as jealousy in that they weren't able to command such a wage . Maybe that is why some have changed careers and are now writing Harlequin romances, eh?
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 265
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 3:16:27 PM


In order to have balance in this discussion, let's not forget the men who don't have a pot to pizz in and/or the higher society wannabes who are also looking to marry up. And don't try to brush this fact off as non-existent because it does indeed exist.


I never said there were not men doing the same. The topic is about a study that is about women marring for money.
While I agree that there are men who look to do this it is hardly as common as a woman doing it.

Just the fact that women make less makes it harder to accomplish.

I have proposed pre-nups in the past as a way around this problem and was ridiculed more than once. Always by a female. Funny how some act as if marrying up is never done by women but when you mention a pre-nup some go ballistic.

Seems to me if one is not concerned with acquiring monetary gain from their mate if a divorce happens.
Then why object to a pre-nup?

There are good and bad in both genders. Protecting oneself is not only prudent but necessary in this day and age. No matter their gender.
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 266
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 3:45:09 PM
I still cannot believe there was a study on basic human nature...of course women will want men with a better potential to earn...the women are usually expected, even today, to be the ones to stay at home during babies early years...cant do that with a male who doesnt earn enough. Its just basic needs being played out.

Claiming that women who read romance novels actually believe them is the same as saying men who read playboy actually believe if they get onto an elevator with two women a threesome is gonna break out any second. Get real. Its an escape, fantasy, and anyone with half a brain knows this.

Both genders should be looking out for thier future.

There is always a percentage of BOTH genders who will take, take and take some more. Some women take money from thier men they did not earn, and thanks to equal rights, now men can do the same, and they do.

I think prenups are fantastic and anyone going into a marriage/common law situation who wants to ensure things they already had are still around to be passed on to thier heirs should seriously have one...male and female...and I would be very suspiscious of someone not wanting one. Thier motives would be questionable, to me.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 267
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 4:01:14 PM

Harlequin buys and prints 115 romance novels EVERY month.

Reading a book and believing it can happen to you are 2 completely different things.
I read all kinds of nonsense on this site daily.....doesn't mean I believe any of it or
want it to happen in my life!!

and I agree, your condenscending attitutude, you nonstop efforts to put down
anything beneath your "world class sailing" attitude do come off as a man trying
to act like "he has it all".
Since I couldn't tell you about one thing or picture in your profile.....my thoughts
are based purely on your posts in these forums.

You remind me of the kind that pretends to have wealth and "class"....so they can
latch onto someone that actually does.
 WaywardWynde
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 268
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 4:45:39 PM

your "world class sailing" attitude


I have no idea what "world class sailing" is, let alone a "world class sailing" attitude. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me? Before this moment I've never seen or heard the term.


You remind me of the kind that pretends to have wealth and "class" ...


If you had paying attention, you would have noticed I have clearly stated I NEVER use the word "class" as an adjective. Bad form, and all that. You would also have noticed I have clearly stated I do not "have wealth".


....so they can latch onto someone that actually does.


At the grade school dinner table I heard MANY times my father say "He (never "she") who marries for money, EARNS it." Now, my father liked his mother one whole heck of a lot better than he liked his father, but his father (with some family money) married his mother with a whole lot of family money. "He EARNS it." (FWIW, money on both sides gone b/4 my father got out of high school.)

Me, I made every nickel I ever had, and do have. I started earning money when I was 9 years old, shoveling snow off sidewalks. By age 12, I was repairing motors for money for adult men who couldn't fix 'em. By age 16, I was working as an auto mechanic. By age 20, I was making less than $6/day to get shot at. What did you do when you were young?

When I (gleefully) retired my daughter took me out for brunch, telling me I earned my retirement because I had "worked hard". Ya know what? I didn't then, and don't now, think I "worked hard."

Now, if you'll tell this social-climbing sycophant just what "world class sailing" is, I'd be grateful for the information.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 269
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 5:50:38 PM

Me, I made every nickel I ever had, and do have. I started earning money when I was 9 years old, shoveling snow off sidewalks. By age 12, I was repairing motors for money for adult men who couldn't fix 'em. By age 16, I was working as an auto mechanic. By age 20, I was making less than $6/day to get shot at.


And this makes you different from the rest of those that did the same thing......how?

I do thank you for serving our Country.....but it doesn't make you any better than those that also served, or those that didn't serve.

btw......the "world class sailing attitude" is the attitude you project when you go on and on and on......and on.....demeaning other types of boaters......and everything else you seem to think is beneath you.
 Gashlycrumb_Briny
Joined: 9/26/2010
Msg: 270
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 5:53:53 PM

what "world class sailing" is


It's yammering on about sailing all the time, no matter its relevance to the original topic. It might also be mentioning expensive brand names in order to act all blase about them.


Back somewhat on topic, I was just thinking about how other trends in marriage and education might also be useful in interpreting this particular study. People generally are more likely to get married later in life, or not at all, and more women are pursuing higher levels of education (compared to 1940). If women who have similar or higher 'earning capacity' than the men in their age range are the women who are less likely to get married, then then proportion of women who do get married will be skewed towards more 'average' or 'lower' earning capacity. If that makes sense.

What I'm trying to say is that marriages with income disparities may have increased in proportion (to other marriages), but not necessarily in absolute numbers.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 271
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 6:56:11 PM

Over 7,000 romance novels were published in the United States last year, and virtually every last one of them had a H.E.A. ending (Happily Ever After, i.e. they got married).

So how do you interpret an HEA when the romance is gay, lesbian, or paranormal? All of which are rapidly growing subgenres of romance novels, by the way. I will admit that the majority do end up with a traditional boy meets girl HEA, but they are rarely the ones next door.

Quite a .generalization for someone who couldn't even spell Harlequin properly in his profile. And Harlequin is far from the only publisher of romances - and quite a few even make *gasp* the NY Times Best Sellers lists.

You might actually do some research before displaying your ignorance. The vast majority of those who read them - and a lot of romance readers are men - are very well aware they are pure escapism, that those things just don't happen in the real world. They are also well aware that men or husband/wife partners write a lot of the more successful ones, too. But then, think how much a successful writer of anything at all contributes to the family income.
 WaywardWynde
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 272
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 7:15:45 PM
This thread started as an attempted justification of fungus behavior by moral reprobates. It never did come even close to center of the road, from a societal point of view.

I understand, though I have no direct experience, when a sex worker is told her (or his?) rates are too high, said sw typically resorts to insults of one's manliness/attractiveness/income/car/shoes/voice/whatever, and in turn the attempted trick responds by saying the sw's her tea cups are too small, her assets too big. I understand these are the steps in a negotiating dance for both.

Yet, it takes both a sw and a trick to step the dance.

I don't know, because I don't do those steps, don't know that dance.

finis
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 273
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 7:20:25 PM
Annathasia
D.A.R= D.aughters of the A. merican R.evolution...you had to have a direct ancestor who fought for the emerging United States of America in the Revolutionary War. Some chapters are quite snooty,which is why I often compared snooty/snobbish people as "who do they think they are, the Daughters of the American Revolution. Then one of my cousins did a big geneaology project,tracing back her dads'-and my mothers', ancestry. Guess what...we have a documented ancestor who fought on the US side in the Revolutionary War-ironically, I am eligible for membership in an organization that I used as an example of elitism!
As for this romance novel thing...it's ENTERTAIMMENT. Just like movies and television shows. I don't think women actually believe them or use them as examples of life, any more than Stephen King fans all run in terror from 1958 Plymouth Furies.
And again, to the topic, because of several factors, young women who want to raise families do tend to marry men that could support the household if she needed to leave or reduce her time in the workforce to care for the child(ren).
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 274
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/25/2011 7:26:47 PM
This thread started as an attempted justification of behavior by moral reprobates.

WTF?? Because there seems to be a trend,a trend that may have several causes, for women to marry men who have higher education, therefore theoretically higher earning power, these women are moral reprobates? They are "sex workers"? Did you not read the posts where younger women with high earnings about have to marry men who earn more, because men that earn the same or less can't handle it?

Cindy O
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 275
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increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/26/2011 7:21:16 PM

People who claim tradesmen can regularly make upwards of two hundred grand a year might be expected to know at least a little of the nonenclature of the trades.


Two hundred thousand? Not in this town. Not even close.
 Gashlycrumb_Briny
Joined: 9/26/2010
Msg: 276
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/26/2011 7:53:57 PM

an attempted justification of fungus behavior by moral reprobates


You just called a lot of peoples' moms moral reprobates. Does your daughter earn more or less than her husband? Just curious. (If a husband earns less than his wife, is he the moral reprobate of the relationship?)

The study in the original post was not really attempting to justify anything, it was more of an observation of certain trends followed by some speculation on what they mean. A different interpretation of the same trend could have produced a title such as,

'Men too insecure to marry women of equal earning capacity,'

or

'Marriage trends show men are intimidated by successful women'

or any other bs you had pre-concluded on your own.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 277
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/27/2011 5:38:11 PM


Two hundred thousand? Not in this town. Not even close.


Traveling nuclear works can.

Base pay $35.00 per hour.

First week to process in....4-10's = $1,575.00 36 at 35.00 6 at 52.50

Union contracts say anything over 8 hours a day is time & a half.

7 weeks of 7-12's = $24,010.00

per-diem at $70.00 a day=3710.00

Total=$29,295.00

That is for two months $29295.00 x 6 = $175,770.00

If you have any hot hand turnovers or shift changes that turn in less that 24 hours and you can add a lot more to that.

Skilled workers can make a lot more than you think.

The $35.00 is a average some contracts are as high as $75.00 base.

So it is very possible for a tradesman to make $200,000.00 per year.
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