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 AUTHOR
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 476
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Oy Vay, just to make it clear - I consider you a reasonable and intelligent man and do appreciate many of the thoughts you offer. Just not all of them.


"Because women no longer have to remain in marriages for financial security"

(sigh) Now a statement like that, only leads me (and probably others) to believe she married him for monetary gain in the first place. It would be easy to extrapolate that she thought "he ain't my first choice, but he makes a good living"!

And to me, it means that women's financial independence allows them to marry for reasons other than money, and leave for reasons other than money.

I'm sure there are women who consider money first and foremost when assessing men and I also agree that it is a consideration, to some degree, for most women. I do not agree that women, as a gender, give it as much importance as men think they do.

we now have 27 pages of rage by guys ..... women saying it doesn't happen, denegrating men becuase they do claim it happens.

Imagine for a moment that I started a thread that claiming "Increasing numbers of men are raping women" and proceeded to cite a biased study. Suppose a few men attended the thread and said "I don't believe that's true; I've never raped anyone and none of my friends have either". And I respond with "Of course it's true; it must be true - it happened to me, and nearly every woman I know! If you deny my personal experience, then you are a liar!" So the discussion goes, and it turns out I'm claiming a man's gentle seduction of a woman is rape, when it's really just a part of normal male/female interaction. I bet there'd be more than one man getting a little frustrated with such an unfair accusation leveled against their entire gender.

To my mind, the phrase "Marry for money" means that money is the only or the primary consideration when selecting or accepting a mate. So, is money the only or primary consideration in most women's mate-selection? I don't think so. I think it's part of it, along with intangibles based on a woman's very personal preferences. I think for most women, money is rather far down the list and regardless of how much money a man has, if he isn't suitable in other ways, his money isn't going to make him suitable. For men to insist that women who base their selection on many factors, including money, are "marrying for money" is as unfair as my defining a man's gentle & and successful seduction as rape and telling those who disagree with me they are liars, or delusional.

It may well be true that women are less likely to accept a jobless man, or one with little earning power, than a man is likely to accept in a woman. But - as some have pointed out - is that a crime? Are women obliged to behave the same exactly as men do when selecting mates so they can avoid being considered money-grubbing parasites? Maybe men would actually be better off to follow the example of women and stop accepting women who are jobless or have little earning power. Men might feel less (financially) victimized and even those more money-oriented women might recognize their ability and accept their obligation to be self-supporting.


Sorry I don't agree with one thing you did, the CS thing. He had a child, he should love and support that child and be in it's life. Congrats on doind what you did.

We had two kids; he was actually out of work for a while at the time of the divorce through no fault of his own. He never hesitated to do the best he could for the kids or even for me when I needed it, and later, when both the kids lived with him for a while, I didn't pay child support either. For us, this worked - we cooperated and money never became an issue. He's done more financially for those kids than I have because he's had more earning power throughout their lives, and he's done more than many a parent who's had child support court orders.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 477
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/18/2011 2:07:57 PM
Oh grizz, I expect more of you than that! You've been reading these forums too long to take serious, most claims of golddigging! I'd be willing to bet that there are less than 200 members of POF's 20 million who actually have money worth marrying for. Just because you have a 40 foot boat, nice house and drive a porsche, buy the lobster at dinner doesn't make you liquid and wealthy.

I guess my first question to your last post would be:

"No more having to deal with some idiot"

Why would ANYONE marry an idiot? If it's all about the control, wouldn't you see that BEFORE you married him? Controllers are pretty easy to spot. You say let's go see this movie and he responds, no I will see that one or better yet let's do this. If he's stupid, again why would you marry or live together?

We're not talking 40 years ago, we're talking today, right now. Whatever is history is history, we ca't put the gene back in the bottle.

"whole lot different than being a gold digger or marrying him for his money"

There you go with that word again. Dating up or marrying up is not the same as gold digging. I am saying women will seek a man either who has made money from his chosen job or has prospects to do that, which is what the article alledges.

"If a woman doesn't want to get involved with someone because they would be a potential financial drain on HER"

This is the crux of the matter. If Sally is a waitress and makes 25K or Sheila is a secretary or bank teller and makes 40K, but Joe the doctor meets her and falls in love (lust) whatever, he doesn't view it as a drain. He views it as a person he wants a life with and whatever else.

When Mary meets tom a bank teller making 40K while Mary makes 90K, she maybe aattracted to him, date him, bed him, but most likely will eliminate him as a potential long term mate, because he is not making the same money. When she meets Phil the accountant who makes 120K, she is more at ease, and would consider him, because their incomes are more in line. That's marrying up OR for money.

Again are there exceptions, yes. Most women look up and rarely down, when it comes to money.

But to say it's her choice is bogus! She may have been more attracted to tom, but because of money she is much more attacted to Phil. Is that gold digging? Still to me it's not enough money to golddig, but it WAS money that was the deciding factor.

Ergo marrying for money. You can call it smart or her preference, or whatever name lets you sleep at night, the fact of the matter is tom got knocked out of the box(no pun intended) by money.

It's even paraded everyday for you on TV. The Karadisians, the commercials, the very encouragement from your mothers, who smile when you bring home a doctor and frown at the mechanic.

The differences are subtle, but the results are the same. So please save the arguments. Looks play a part in how men select women and money plays a part in how women select men.

Edit to add: You might be right 4me, about what men do, and who they should select. He11 I'll give you guys a good laugh at my expense. I have more than once railed at LDR's. So who do you think flew from atlanta to london ontario for a date last weekend? Me! Alas the heart wants what the heart wants. Perhaps that is one of the key differences between men and women, part of the crux of this issue.

Women seem to be level headed with regard to dating and what comes next. Men not so much, we (or at least me, can't speak for all guys)want the woman we find attrative to us. Rarely do we consider the drawbacks, that might come with some women.

In my case, it's no biggie, I have flown a number of places to see women, to see if it works. I can afford it, it's no sweat, so I do as I please. But I doubt many women would view the cost of it, the way I do. There is a key element in the difference in our processes.
 Amorado
Joined: 11/23/2010
Msg: 478
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/18/2011 2:55:04 PM
Fleuron why is it that women stick up for each other all the time but when one man sticks up for another man why "He must be gay!"

Go play your 'gay card' somewhere else.
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 479
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/18/2011 2:59:29 PM

more women are choosing to marry men who are substantially better educated than them, and therefore have higher earnings.


I am very attracted to intelligent men. But it has nothing to do with money. Or education necessarily. And if he looks like a warthog, I don't give a sh!t how much money he's got...he aint' gettin' any. In my experience, people with alot of money tend to act like jerks. So, I'd rather avoid them.

And really now, does a better education necessarily mean higher earnings? Because I know a lot of dumbasses with degrees.


According to a new study more women are are marrying for money than did in the 1940s.


Wow. This article has a wealth of information about the so-called "study". {sarcasm font}
 Amorado
Joined: 11/23/2010
Msg: 480
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/18/2011 3:03:19 PM
OyVay... you have put much thought & time into your posts on this subject. Very well put, I must say.

Insofar as dating goes "Endeavor to Perseverve!"
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 481
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/18/2011 4:08:04 PM

Fleuron why is it that women stick up for each other all the time but when one man sticks up for another man why "He must be gay!"


Beats me. I didn’t say you or anyone else must be gay.

Maybe you should try being more discerning about who you stick up for…? Just a thought.
 SC67
Joined: 6/21/2009
Msg: 482
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/18/2011 6:12:27 PM
Oh for Pete's sake! The vast majority of women who marry for money are marrying men who know full well that their bank account brought them to the dance. Over on the "men prefer prostitutes to wife/gf" thread they're saying women should drop trou whenever & wherever their husband decides or just accept that he's gonna buy sex on the side.

Women, by nature, marry to have someone share the burden of home & family. They want security. It does not make them bad people unless they abuse the situation. Many men marry with the idea they'll have sex on demand from a woman who also cleans up after them. Usually both are sorely disappointed.

My only issue with this thread is one word in the subject line...increasing. pfft...troll post if I ever saw one.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 483
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 9:21:18 AM
^^^^ SC, you are making way too much sense for this thread.

Who needs money anyway if a guy's got a really ripped bod.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 484
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 9:58:21 AM
The last few pages of this thread has seriously cracked me up, man I love reading the forums, its better than watching TV it really is

On topic, increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money? Im not a woman so I have no idea if that is true, I would think most women wants to meet and marry a man that has the whole package, Financial security, the ability to remain faithful, has the ability to communicate, and she is attracted to him physically, mentally, emotionally and if he is good in bed doesn't hurt, are their gold diggers out there of course that goes without saying, just because someone wants to marry someone who is financially secure doesn't necessarily mean they are after their money?

That is insecurity talking and listening to a lawyer who gets paid drawing up pre nups
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 485
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 10:55:16 AM
Cdn-ice, glad I could provide a little entertainment to your day!

As you can see, deflection makes a better stance than debate! If you can't beat em, change the subject.

OT:

"According to a new study more women are marrying for money than did in the 1940s."

and

"My only issue with this thread is one word in the subject line...increasing."

Well according to one poster a page or so ago, more women are attending college. Now I'm sure it's way more than the 40's. There are many articles stating the same recently.

Since that's the case, obviously more women will seek men, who have a degree, who they would have more in common with. Hence his opportunities will be better, than the average line worker or regular joe. So he will make more money, again she will look to marry up. No surprise there.
 frank89419
Joined: 10/29/2011
Msg: 486
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 11:45:16 AM
I love how a man points out the truth and the women who are the gold diggers bash on him for being honest, oh no we're in America, don't tell the truth, you'll get smashed in the forums for it! Just smile and throw the truth under the rug!
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 487
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 12:33:45 PM
Gawd!!! There goes that freakin word again "gold digger"!

Where have I ever mentioned gold digger? You people seem to have an obssession with it! What I have been going on and on about has NOTHING to do with gold digging!

Please get that through your heads! Most of you wouldn't know a gold-digger if she bit you on the azz! There ain't no gold-diggers on POF! They couldn't be bothered with the men here, there ain't no gold to dig. Well maybe as I said earlier there might be a few who are well off, but not enough for a true gold-digger.

I've in my life met quite a few. They want a fabulous life style. Bentley cars, skiing in Vail, getting there by private jets. They want to drink Crystale Champagne, not dinner at Denny's! They want an afternoon shopping spree in Paris, on the Champs Elysees. The frakin men here can't spell Champs Elysees, much less know where it's at.

Gawd, you people make me crazy!

And who says you would have to be sick to your stomach? Or that he has to be some old geezer? I've simply pointed out that many women would prefer a man of financial security over mister nobody.

He11 for that matter, I never said it was wrong! Just a fact of life that happens when women select a man. Why TF, is everybody going off on these tangents?
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 488
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 12:40:53 PM
^^^

lol. You tell us. Sounds alot like a tangent to me. We are all entitled to opinions here. You don't get to approve how we express them.
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 489
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History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 12:59:53 PM
Some of the arguements here are being presented as though at cross purposes

If a man doesnt want to marry a broke ass woman he IS criticised because of it, and excuses like shes a parent, she was "made" to stay at home and similar drivel tends to be wheeled out

Being not only a parent but a stay at home one is a "choice" for all women, its only men who can end up being a parent without choosing to be one

Being "made" to sit on your arse at home why the other person earns all the moeny is SUCH an imposition too I'm sure. But its also a CHOICE, the choice to BE financially dependant and have spa days and watch daytime TV instead of working

But when people claim that women wanting men who earn an "equal" amount isnt seeing money as being relevant it does kind of seem like somebody trying to sneak a joke through hoping nobody is watching. Because were men to expect the same from women they would be "tight", they'd be criticised and labelled as too materialistic, insecure etc etc

Basically if a man has a financial expectation from a partner even if thats equality they ARE viewed negatively because most women STILL need a man to be the main breadwinner because they either wont be able to be, or just dont WANT to be able to be

Women who at least expect a similar level of income however try to make that sound like money "isnt" important, when it obviously is or a potential partners income wouldnt matter so it really does stink of the pot calling the kettle black really

And although some people might marry for love, most women do infact seem to divorce for money. Or more acurately a lack in its amount when you look at the common problems in relationships

At times it seems like there must be some secret class many women attend that teaches them how to say "I want a man who can make a decent wage, buy a nice house, keep me in nice clothers and a decent car and all the other things a princess like me deserves as long as she keeps looking pretty" but in ways that dont ACTUALLY say that at all like

A man should have a good work ethic
He should be driven
He should have goals
He shouldnt be materialistic (meaning he should earn lots of money, but shouldnt mind spending it all on me)

As mentioned, this subtle, and maybe even subconcious vetting process starts from the very first date

Somebody on another thread said something like

"Maybe he should say I have something to eat before we meet for the first time because I dont want to shell out for feeding you and I bet no women would want to meet him"

As though its "reasonable" to view a person you havent met yet with disdain because he wont shell out money on you.

Its no different to the woman saying that, something like

"If youre not going to spend at least $50 on a meal why on earth would I want to meet you?"

Theres droves of posts like that where women quite subtly but overtly manipulatively try to twist things around so that its not the "expectation of being treated" thats bad, but mens reluctance to want to treat a total stranger

Whilst also trying to claim that money isnt important to women

In reality its not important to women, as long as its constantly flowing towards them

it only becomes important when theres any resistance to that process it seems
 Archangel_07
Joined: 6/21/2010
Msg: 490
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 1:47:03 PM
females,
whatever floats your bloat. If you want to marry a man for his money go for it, all the more power to ya, if not all the more power to ya. But the point is marry someone that will overall love you, fight for you and protect you. End of discussion on my part.
 Fly_Boy22
Joined: 10/13/2011
Msg: 491
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 2:02:09 PM
I dont see anything wrong with a woman wanting to marry a successful semi wealthy man, but at the same time it's not really fair because there are some good men that was never given the golden spoon. It goes both ways.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 492
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 2:38:15 PM

I love how a man points out the truth

No-what is being done here is everyone is pointing out their own truth. Sometimes these reports of one's own pwrsonal truth are not delivered in a pretty package-that doesn't make it "bashing" or "smashing".

Besides, if it really IS"the" truth, why do you give a rats' ass about being bashed or smashed? If you feel like your success in social interactions is contingent on "throwing the truth under the rug", what might that say about you?
Cindy O
 SC67
Joined: 6/21/2009
Msg: 493
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 5:12:01 PM

Well according to one poster a page or so ago, more women are attending college. Now I'm sure it's way more than the 40's. There are many articles stating the same recently.

Since that's the case, obviously more women will seek men, who have a degree, who they would have more in common with. Hence his opportunities will be better, than the average line worker or regular joe. So he will make more money, again she will look to marry up. No surprise there.

but you see...you made my point. You said women who have a degree will be looking to marry someone THEY WOULD HAVE MORE IN COMMON WITH. Could it be that women with a degree are making money of their own & want a partner who also makes money of his own?

Could it be this was all a super hilarious way to get men & women to have the same old argument that happens in every other thread? Nah...I'm sure you guys aren't ready to let go of the idea that the world is crawling with women just trying to get their dirty paws on all your cash. I might as well try to have a conversation with a stop sign.
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 494
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 5:35:14 PM

I might as well try to have a conversation with a stop sign


If more women started chatting up stop signs we would probably also be bombarded with threads about the legnth of the pole the stop sign was mounted on and why stop signs never showed their emotions and never paid for dinner on a first date

So not much would change really
 RAMPERBILL
Joined: 2/16/2010
Msg: 495
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 6:13:24 PM
Not me. Everytime that thought crosses my mind I think of Anna Nicole Smith kissing that old corpse she married ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Her testimony itself states that she didn't do this for money. Her words were "it was a gift." If you marry, then die, all your wealth goes to your spouse. This is very convenient when you don't like your own son and can't cut him out of your will. Just find a complete stranger at your local strip club and make the arrangement. The arrangement was "marry me and go ahead and live your life as you would." Divorce, get half. Stay until death, get it all. Unloving son would have to fight it out in court until death. I agree with her. It was a gift.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 496
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 7:30:24 PM
"Could it be that women with a degree are making money of their own"

A good point, and one I will happily embrace. So then women with a degree, making their own money should gladly ask men out and pay for dates, not even go dutch right? They will be happy to ask a man to marry and give him a token of their love, right?

Well, I guess the universal truth of women making their own hasn't quite reached their pocketbooks, now has it?

"Nah...I'm sure you guys aren't ready to let go of the idea that the world is crawling with women just trying to get their dirty paws on all your cash."

WOW! Assume much? I never said anything like that. I simply pointed out that women married up, not that it was a money grab. While I won't bother to look for statistics, I'm fairly confident, college graduated men, marry more women who aren't than vice versa.

Now would you have me believe that's a fluke or abberation? I doubt it, women just naturally go for a financial better man, than not. You don't have to go to that many profiles on POF, to see that financial security ranks high on women's lists of requirements.

Your comments show a certain derision for the concept, yet it seems it continues generation after generation. Younger women still cling to the concept of dating rules that were prevelant in the 50's. From a world they never knew or even were exposed to. They rely on phrases like "I prefer it that way" or "that's the way it's supposed to be" even as they make as much or in some cases more than men.

Sounds like the guys living in 2011 are the ones having conversations with stop signs.

edit: Oh and I apologize for the omission of the "`" required for the french street name.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 497
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/19/2011 7:58:08 PM

I might as well try to have a conversation with a stop sign.


At least you wouldn’t have to listen to it repeatedly insist that you are a greedy, money hungry witch with nothing more to offer it than a vagina. Or was that the other thread?

There goes that thread vertigo again.
 sensualseekerns
Joined: 6/1/2010
Msg: 498
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/20/2011 12:11:02 AM
Those who marry for money deserve each other. They are not fit people, and their priorities are too damaged to make them worth loving. As long as they stay out of my life I am happy.

That there are so many sick people who put money or looks as a priority is a sad comment on how pathetic our society has become.

That the numbers of women who are not materialistic driven is so low is frankly depressing.

 SC67
Joined: 6/21/2009
Msg: 499
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/20/2011 4:41:27 AM

Your comments show a certain derision for the concept, yet it seems it continues generation after generation.

I guess you missed the part where I said...

Women, by nature, marry to have someone share the burden of home & family. They want security. It does not make them bad people unless they abuse the situation. Many men marry with the idea they'll have sex on demand from a woman who also cleans up after them. Usually both are sorely disappointed.



I simply pointed out that women married up, not that it was a money grab. While I won't bother to look for statistics, I'm fairly confident, college graduated men, marry more women who aren't than vice versa.

Could it be that men are placing more value on a woman's looks, whether consciously or subconsciously, & less on her ability to provide financially for herself? Then those same men are mad when their trophy wife wants alimony? Pfft...don't get mad at me when you get what you wanted.
 sensualseekerns
Joined: 6/1/2010
Msg: 500
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 11/20/2011 11:46:37 AM
My own experience was this....

When I first came onto this website I listed my profession as "healthcare" because that was the related field I was working in.

On average I got six email contacts a day, sometimes more. That was without any picture on my profile. Every second email asked me whether I was a doctor. When I said no, I rarely ever heard from those women again. I had a couple of them send back emails saying I misrepresented myself. Like they were offended that I was not a doctor.

When I changed my profession to "technology", I got very few emails. On average about once a week. Mostly from women who said they liked tall men.

When I changed my profession later to "Explorer" or "Humanist", I got no emails. In fact in the past six months I have been contacted maybe four times, and half of those were by people who already knew me.

A pretty telling experience..

In the past couple of weeks I have since changed my profile from something positive to something no-nonsense, and direct. There are emails now, but I suspect judging by the content of those emails it is not the quality of the man they seek. Some are simply curious and show general disinterest, while a couple have been from women offended at my honesty.

To be truthful I have a very low view of these websites any more as a result of my experiences on this one.

<div class='quote'>Could it be that men are placing more value on a woman's looks, whether consciously or subconsciously, & less on her ability to provide financially for herself? Then those same men are mad when their trophy wife wants alimony? Pfft...don't get mad at me when you get what you wanted.

Could it be that you and several of the other women posting on here are just making excuses for modern female behavior?

When you put "Money" as a higher priority then your "Humanity", then you get the very miserable existence that you deserve. Please stop attacking men for a situation that many of you ladies created for yourselves. We did not make you the way you are.
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