Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 WaywardWynde
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 178
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their moneyPage 8 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)
BINGO! EVOLUTIONARILY (is that a REAL word, LOL?) The more successful men want the best looking females & the best looking females get the more successful males. The reasons you cited about providing for future children are totally instinctual


*IF* that were true, THEN virtually all fathers of newborn children you'd see in hospital maternity wards would be rich men, and older rich men to boot (because young men seldom, seldom, seldom are rich).

Yet ...

... virtually all fathers of newborns are under age 35, with nearly all under age 30, with a whole lot under age 25, with a bunch of fathers of newborns still teenagers, and some fathers barely even teenagers. You'll find more 16 year old fathers than you'll find rich 46 year old fathers.

The empirical evidence clearly shows (you can stand around hospital maternity wards for a couple weeks watching, if you want) women who get pregnant, do so with young, athletic men with handsome faces. Clearly, that is women's choice to have children by across the world.

Just as clearly, young men chose to have children by young, thin, pretty women.

Psychologists say there is no such thing as an "accidental" pregnancy. All of us here (each one of us) has male ancestors who were on the short side of age 14, and a LOT of ancestors on the short side of 19. A LOT more such ancestors than males who were on the long side of 35 and/or rich.

Go ask a thousand 17 year old women (most of whom will be pregnant at least once before age 30, many several times) if *they* are even willing to marry a man of 45 "who is rich". As each of those 17 year olds answers, ask them if they would sleep with the captain of the football team tonight.

Justifications for being a fungus are nothing more than justifications. The real world marches on as it always has.

BTW, googling Welders Alberta Canada wages brought up as the first entry a site that showed jouneyman welders wages there were $25 to$40 and hour, with a long list of requirements to even be considered. That's only a fraction of two hundred grand a year, and I doubt welders in Alberta average even 30 hours a week on a year round basis. (Most trades don't, even in warm climates, but most certainly not where weather is a safety issue.)
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 179
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 12:33:19 PM

The empirical evidence clearly shows (you can stand around hospital maternity wards for a couple weeks watching, if you want) women who get pregnant, do so with young, athletic men with handsome faces. Clearly, that is women's choice to have children by across the world.

bb-but...how does this line up with the supposedly solidly researched study claiming that women are marrying men for their money? What about the women who don't like sex who marry fugly men with money? Just because they don't like sex doesn't mean they wouldn't have sex in order to have a child,does it?
So which is it? Are people marrying to make sure they have quality children, or are women marrying men for their money?
I think people are marrying the person they marry because that is the person they WANT to marry,and that wealth and beauty are matters of individual perception.
Cindy O
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 180
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 12:44:39 PM

*IF* that were true, THEN virtually all fathers of newborn children you'd see in hospital maternity wards would be rich men, and older rich men to boot

WW, I have seen you post this, or similar, position in several places. What I believe you sidestep is the notion of potential. Dr. Hakim's study, likely precisely because the subjects were young, uses education attainment as a predictor of income potential. (Which doesn't imply - with a nod to the welders and truck drivers of the world) that only the educated have high income potential - just that education, as an indication of higher earning potential, is a means to isolate and measure behaviour within society ... especially among the young).

I believe I have read others make the point that people in their 20's *tend* to date potential.
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 181
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 12:45:05 PM
Pipelines are being built here 12 months of the year. Oil dug from the sand is going on 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. If you live in a northern climate you adapt. Go work in the northern area of the province - secretary's don't get out of bed for under 35 bucks an hour. Many are working shifts like 12 days in, 4 out and 10 to 12 hours a day. Some work a month straight, fly home for a week and then fly back. Even in that pathetic waste of skin Sarah Palin's state work goes on 24 hours a day. Climate here means nothing. A guy can haul on the ice roads for 2 months and make 50 grand, what he does for the next 10 months is up to him, maybe he works at Home Depot. But we love you folks down south, you buy our oil and keep our economy going.

I know you like to be right, have the last word, look shit up - most of the time you're sort of right or parts are right. Sometimes not so much. Maybe lighten up.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 182
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 12:48:22 PM

The empirical evidence clearly shows (you can stand around hospital maternity wards for a couple weeks watching, if you want) women who get pregnant, do so with young, athletic men with handsome faces. Clearly, that is women's choice to have children by across the world.


Where did you get the empirical evidence for your claim? Source, please.

While it might be true that most babies are father by men under age 35, that does NOT correlate into those men being athletic with handsome faces: that cannot be proven by empirical evidence.

Most men are not athletic and most are not handsome. If every woman waits for such a man to father her child, most will remain childless. Given the rise of obesity in the US, there are many, many men who are overweight. Others might not be fat, but that doesn't mean that they are athletic. In addition, most men simply aren't handsome.

Athletic, handsome men seek out like partners; fat and/or ugly men have like partners. I might live in the backwash of Missouri, but I don't have to leave the town where I live to know that couples exist in all sizes and stages of "attractiveness."

The rest of the world might be less fat than are Americans, but the same holds true.


All of us here (each one of us) has male ancestors who were on the short side of age 14, and a LOT of ancestors on the short side of 19.


For thousands of years, life expectancy was at 30 years or below; of course we have ancestors who were young.

As for stats on fathers, the numbers are changing:


But 34 is now the average age for a first-time, married father in the United States, according to recent Census estimates.

In 1975, only 4 percent of first-born children had fathers over the age of 40. By 1990, however, that had doubled to 8 percent, and by 2006, it had nearly doubled again to 14 percent.
http://www.allbusiness.com/population-demographics/demographic-groups-parents-single/14668808-1.html

If 34 is the average age, then the majority of fathers under 35 might not hold if trends continue.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 183
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 1:00:35 PM
Casting my mind over the most recent additions to my extended family, I can make the observation that while the fathers were under 35, they are distinctly average looking. One was an athlete in high school-so was the child's mother. The other one did a little amateur dirt-track racing a few years ago but I wouldn't call him particularly athletic.
And yes, I suspect the young parents one sees in a maternity ward married for POTENTIAL, not a ready-made bank account.
Cindy O
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 184
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 2:30:11 PM
Underwater welders and welders willing to work in Iraq and Afghanistan can make up to $100.00 per hour doing so. They also have a much shorter life expectancy though. About 10 to 15 years less life for underwater welders.


Health Concerns

Airborne particles pose a variety of health concerns to workers in the welding industry, including increased risk for developing lung cancer; damage to nose, throat and lungs; and metal fume fever.

It has been well documented that long-term exposure to the fumes that welding on metals – such as stainless steel, high chrome alloys and chrome-coated metals – produces can lead to an increased risk for developing lung cancer.
As the most serious potential health concern, lung cancer begins with changes in the lungs caused by exposure to carcinogens. These changes are characterized by the development of abnormal cells on the lining of the bronchi (breathing tube) that multiply with increased exposure and eventually become cancerous, progressing into a tumor. Symptoms of lung cancer include chronic cough, hoarseness, chest pain, shortness of breath and repeated episodes of bronchitis and pneumonia.

The inhalation of known welding by-products such as hexavalent chromium also can damage or irritate the nose, throat and lungs. Larger airborne particles deposit in the nose and throat, contributing to coughing and sore throat, and may be eliminated by sneezing or blowing one’s nose. Smaller particles, however, collect in the tiny air sacs of the lungs, causing inflammation and swelling of the blood vessels.

Metal fume fever is an acute allergic condition that affects many welders throughout the duration of their careers. It chiefly is caused by exposure to zinc oxide, another welding fume, and produces flu-like symptoms. Welders afflicted by metal fume fever may experience headache, fever, chills, muscle aches, thirst, nausea, vomiting, chest soreness, gastrointestinal pain and weakness. These symptoms can last anywhere from 6-24 hours and complete recovery can usually be expected within 48 hours.
http://ehstoday.com/ppe/respirators/ehs_imp_77118/


Back on topic, when I fell in love with my partners I was looking at their potential as well. While they both had excellent potential their addictions took over their lives.

Skilled trades can make excellent salaries with many commercial trades working government jobs that pay higher than their wage.
 jackfouru
Joined: 9/10/2010
Msg: 185
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 2:49:57 PM
All other things being equal, women will always choose the high potential guy over the lower potential guy, the better educated guy over the less educated guy, the more intelligent guy over the less, the better looking over the uglier, etc. etc. But there are too many other issues to consider . . chemistry, personality, how the couple get along, etc. . . . that being said, highly educated women often short change themselves by refusing to date less educated men. In my mid fifties now, I can look back at many of the women from my high school and college who chose the guys with potential who are now divorced, or married to ugly guys with pot bellies, etc. etc. I suppose its too bad none of us can see the future.
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 186
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 2:50:44 PM
When I married I didn't even consider "potential", just had stars in my eyes, lust, and plans for the future with my guy with a secure job. What he ended up doing 10 years later in a career change made more money as did another career change 10 years after that. I never even thought of jobs, job changes or potential.

Now? At my age I'm not sure I'd be looking at "potential" either, I'm sure someone in their 50's is relatively settled in their career and at the top of their earning range. Someone who may well be looking at retiremenr in a couple of years. I'm looking more at "where are you now and what are your plans" and does their timeline match mine.

If I had a daughter in the 25 to 30 year range I don't know what I'd tell her - would I say find a guy that cranks your tractor or find a guy you can put up with that has potential. I think I'd trend to say go with your heart. I know I'd tell her not to be someone's arm candy and don't be a gold digger. I would also tell her to have or get the education and skills to support herself, have things in her own name, and a few other things in that area. A sort of Plan B. What would you say to your young daughter?
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 187
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 3:10:14 PM

If I had a daughter in the 25 to 30 year range I don't know what I'd tell her - would I say find a guy that cranks your tractor or find a guy you can put up with that has potential. I think I'd trend to say go with your heart. I know I'd tell her not to be someone's arm candy and don't be a gold digger. I would also tell her to have or get the education and skills to support herself, have things in her own name, and a few other things in that area. A sort of Plan B. What would you say to your young daughter?


I was very much in love with both of my husbands and love tends to be blind sometimes. The potential part is complimentary to the person that has it and admiration to the one that finds it attractive. Being young and in love I overlooked their party habits until the habits didn't change even after children were in the mix. Their habits overtook everything. Their love for me, their love for the children, and their career aspirations. When someone is young and changes jobs repeatedly you do not see that as a problem in the beginning; but when they continue to change jobs (many times after only 2 days to a week) you should start to realize that they are never satisfied and won't be satisfied. How do you make a person like that happy with themselves and with you? You don't and they end up dragging you down with them. I always tried to uplift them by telling them the potential I saw in them yet they couldn't see it themselves. Both of them had my father's full support and he had offered to help both of them start their own businesses. I think my father thought that perhaps they needed to be their own bosses to be happy and yes, I'm sure dad wanted to make sure his daughter and grandchildren were taken care of well. Was my father wrong in offering to help them anyway he could? I don't think so. I believe he just genuinely cared about them as much as I did.

I would and do tell my daughter's that love is a good thing but to make sure they can take care of themselves first so that they do not end up in a bad situation. I hope that they look for someone who not only shows potential but uses their potential as I see those people as happier. No matter how anyone wants to think about life and love the reality is that in order to live life well it takes money and it takes being happy with who you are. I'm watching my daughter's try to make selections now and it is somewhat scary so far.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 188
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 4:15:38 PM
I forgot to add:

WWW wrote:
Go ask a thousand 17 year old women (most of whom will be pregnant at least once before age 30, many several times) if *they* are even willing to marry a man of 45 "who is rich". As each of those 17 year olds answers, ask them if they would sleep with the captain of the football team tonight.


Seventeen year old GIRLS are not quite the measure of whether WOMEN would marry an older man with money, eh?

By the way, I missed what you said earlier, WWW:
There is no legal requirement for a psychologist to have more than a BA. A psychiatrist is different story. A psychiatrist must be a licensed MD.


Although my ex boyfriend with a PsyD told me the requirements, I looked them up anyway so I would have evidence of my earlier claim:


Psychologists go through five to seven years of academic graduate study, culminating in a doctorate degree. They may hold a PhD or a PsyD. Those who are mainly interested in clinical psychology -- treating patients as opposed to focusing on research -- may pursue a PsyD.

Licensing requirements for psychologists vary from state to state, but at least a one- or two-year internship is required to apply for a license to practice psychology.
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/psychology-vs-psychiatry-which-is-better


Psychologists receive graduate training in psychology and pursue either a Ph.D. or Psy.D. in clinical or counseling psychology. Doctorate programs typically take five to seven years to complete and most states require an additional one or two year long internship in order to gain licensure. Other states require an additional year or two of supervised practice before granting full licensure.

The title of "psychologist" can only be used by an individual who has completed the above education, training, and state licensure. Informal titles such as "counselor" or "therapist" are often used as well, but other mental health care professionals such as licensed social workers can also claim these titles.
http://psychology.about.com/od/psychotherapy/f/psychvspsych.htm

People with BAs in psychology can be COUNSELORS or THERAPISTS. The ex worked as a licensed counselor, but because he hadn't taken his boards, he COULD NOT technically call himself a "psychologist," and again, he has a doctorate.

Where did you get your information that people with BAs can be psychologists?
 Dili_gent
Joined: 1/8/2011
Msg: 189
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 5:28:03 PM
Halcyon Skies said


Nothing newsworthy here. After all, prostitution IS the oldest profession, and it's here to stay---especially in this economy.


Some would say that a woman who accepts a free meal, or movie is a prostitute. He buys the woman's food and she spends her "valuable" time with him. Then they part ways and go home seperately.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 190
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 7:05:35 PM

BTW, googling Welders Alberta Canada wages brought up as the first entry a site that showed jouneyman welders wages there were $25 to$40 and hour, with a long list of requirements to even be considered. That's only a fraction of two hundred grand a year, and I doubt welders in Alberta average even 30 hours a week on a year round basis. (Most trades don't, even in warm climates, but most certainly not where weather is a safety issue.)

You really have no clue about the oil patch workers, do you? I have friends who worked on the North Slope when it was being built and wells drilled. A lot of them made a hell of a lot of money. I have other friends who are skilled welders in the fishing industry. Lots and lots of money there, too. Even here, where I live, a plumber gets 75.00 for a house call, if it takes him 10 minutes to fix whatever it is, he still gets that 75.00, and for every minute over the first hour, it's another 75.00 per hour. That's a minimum of 800.00/day, though I have to admit some days are shorter and some are longer. That's a hell of a lot of money in an area where I can feed myself and my animals for 100.00/month. I used to date a man long ago who, along with his brother, bought a one man submersible and they made enough money with one dive to live extremely well on one day's work each month. He bought a beautiful 4 story house near the waterfront in Vancouver, BC, and paid cash for it.

It's all relative anyway. On another site (since I live on social security alone) I said I expected any SO to be self-supporting and able to pay for his own expensive toys. I was ranked by the site as ambitious and materialistic - just because I don't want to be totally responsible for a man who didn't think or plan for the future!
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 191
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 8:28:40 PM
I don't know how the reference to WWW's post about the 17 year old girl (who may well be pregnant or have multiple pregnancies by the time she is 30) won't chose the rich 45 year old guy but will sleep with the captain of the football team - like wtf cares. Aren't 17 year olds supposed to be out doing what all 17 year olds should be doing - tasting life. I just don't see the relevance of the statement.

And WWW, you know jack shyte about what goes on in my province - totally different than in New York. Google a little more. What I posted was and is the way things are. We may have had a boom, the boom may have died down but it sure isn't dead by any means. Oil is oil and demand is high. And it's not only my province, check out Saskatchewan and Newfoundland. Grab a map, learn a little, put the ego on the shelf.
 WaywardWynde
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 192
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 8:49:35 PM
Three times a month or more, someone starts a topic here about how it is right and holy and biologically ordained that women can and should and do marry for money.

All statements from people who haven't been in a serious relationship since Bill Clinton's first term.

More times a month, someone starts a topic about how men, as a class, are too horny. Also from people who haven't been in a serious relationship since Bill Clinton's first term.

Since the start of Bill Clinton's first term, more than a billion babies have been born with fathers too young to have made themselves rich. Born to young women who chose athletic young men, women who were themselves young and thin.

More than a billion mothers who formed intimate relationships with men since Bill Clinton's first term. Precious few of those women chose men to be fathers who were old enough to be rich.

Go figure. Rich ... or ... athletic? Rich ... or ... handsome?

BTW, one can indeed work as and call themselves a psychologist with just a BA degree. They can not, however, treat patients in a clinical setting.

BTW, most welders -- like most other tradesmen -- work as journeymen. Journeyman is the standard, not master. Even most masters draw journeyman's wages most of the time, if they want to work.

BTW, "journeyman" is not a raw rookie beginner. That is an "apprentice".

BTW, how many who claim to fully understand tradesmen's work know the difference between Snap-On and Craftsmen, a Dykes and a side Dykes, an SAE and a Whitworth, a Forstner from an EZ-Out?
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 193
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/15/2011 9:37:40 PM
Okay, I'll bite.

I agree that too many babyies are being born by folks too young - both genders. I agee most young folks having babies aren't prepared mentally or financially. Been going on for awhile now, probably won't change too much. Rich has nothing to do with their choices and neither does that fact that they are athletic. Just horny kids that think they know more than they do.

There is also the groups that are chosing to wait until their 30's to start families and those that chose not to have children at all. Both of these groups I think are growing in number. And no, I don't have the statistics to back that up, just observation.

For the record, I have had a serious relationship since Bill Clinton was in office and I've had sex since Bill Clinton was in office. And I don't mind that men are horny, I don't even mind that they are "too horny" - sure beats the alternative.

The whole point of the welders, which seemed to get a life of it's own, was don't discard the tradesman or anyone who works with their hands as they may well earn more than someone with a university degree. And while we're on this topic - not all areas of the country (mine and yours) make the same kind of money. I do know the difference between an apprentice, journeymen and master. I know my plumber is 89 bucks an hour for apprentice and 99 bucks for journeymen and if it's on weekends or at night - it's more.

As for psychologists - could care less. Not my argument.

As for Craftsmen, Dykes, Whitford.....WTF. Could care less because that statement just adds to the "always have to be right" category. You working at Home Depot too?
 WaywardWynde
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 194
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/16/2011 7:44:55 AM
^^^ THE headline of THIS thread is about what women AS A CLASS are doing, not about what some fringe element "past 30" or "past 40" MIGHT be doing.

Clearly, the women "out there in the real world" having billions of babies by billions of fathers not old enough to be rich hugely outnumber the women having babies by rich men. Therefore, women do not -- as a class -- chose men by the thickness of their wallets. Not even close.

Just as clearly, women who state, and mean, they "won't settle" for a man of less than some particular (high) asset value, fail -- the vast, vast, vast majority of them -- to effect a relationship with a man. They go without the rest of their lives.

Just as clearly, marriage counselors define a "sexless relationship" as one where the couple has ten or less peneratrive sexual encounters in a year. Sexless. By definition, by the professional help community.

Just as clear (to the professional help community), "sex workers" (what used to be refered to as "prostitutes") have little or no sexual feelings for the class of tricks they work.

Therefore, women who have little or no sexual desire (because they started with low to begin with, or because of disease, or because of advancing age, or because of medications, or because of changing mental conditions) for men are the likely group from which one might find the "take 'em for all their worth, I won't settle for less" mentality.

This is also the group from which the "women chose rich men to have babies by" qttitude comes from, never ming that rich men are OLD compared to the desires of women who actually DO have babies. Theory disproved, in spades.

So, that leaves those who insist grubbing for money -- NOT having sex with a man unless he "has money" -- without a man in their lives, for the rest of their lives. No surprise there.


I know my plumber is 89 bucks an hour for apprentice and 99 bucks for journeymen and if it's on weekends or at night - it's more.


That's not what your plumber makes, though, that's what you pay the plumbing company. The plumbing company has to meet company expenses first (even if a solo proprietorship). A company usually needs to charge a customer AT LEAST 3X what it pays the worker just to stay in business, something most non-business people don't have a clue about.


As for Craftsmen, Dykes, Whitford.....WTF. Could care less because that statement just adds to the "always have to be right" category.


People who know the trades well enough to know what trades ACTUALLY make at the end of a year, know those words.

FWIW, in my career choice, I wore a wool suit, white shirt, maroon tie, gold watch with black leather strap, and black wingtip shoes, well shined. But I am handy with tools, having started using them as a 5 year old. I started repairing engines professionally for adult men (who couldn't fix them) the summer between 6th and 7th grades (my father owned the place). I built a professional class racing hydroplane the winter I was in 8th grade. I built an airplane in my late 20's. Three years ago, I sewed a mainsail for a 28 foot sailboat in my Manhattan (size) apartment.

Now, about that premise that more and more and more women ARE marrying men FOR their money than in times past .........
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 195
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/16/2011 7:48:37 AM

BTW, one can indeed work as and call themselves a psychologist with just a BA degree. They can not, however, treat patients in a clinical setting.


I can call myself a "psychologist," too, but that doesn't make me one. I referred to DOCTORS, people who are LICENSED psychologists, which is the general reference to the word. I believe that I stated this in my first post about the guy who claimed to be a psychologist but hadn't finished his schooling.
 Gashlycrumb_Briny
Joined: 9/26/2010
Msg: 196
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/16/2011 7:55:13 AM
Hey, Wayward. Your next project is to build yourself a hot air balloon, right? You can just hop in and start talking and it'll take you several times around the world.
 WaywardWynde
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 197
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/16/2011 8:19:54 AM
^^^ Yet the reality remains, women who go for athletic and handsome have billions of babies each year ....

... while ...

.... women who "won't settle" for less than a man "who has money" fail -- by the vast, vast, vast majority -- to even sleep with a rich man, let alone marry one, let alone marry one and then have children by that man.

The statement that women are biologically driven to marry a man "who has money" is a vacuous rationalization that does not stand even slight cursory examination. But, it seems, some people hold dear their dreams, no matter what the reality is.

Anyone wonder just why any particular woman might not want an handsome, athletic man in favor of a man "who has money"? Billions of women each year don't.

~~~~~~~~~~

Th .. th .. th .. that's all folks!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 198
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/16/2011 9:21:42 AM
Just as clearly, women who state, and mean, they "won't settle" for a man of less than some particular (high) asset value, fail -- the vast, vast, vast majority of them -- to effect a relationship with a man. They go without the rest of their lives.

Got stats and sources to back up this claim? Or is it just wishful thinking thinking? Is there an experience of a change in women's interest driving the theory someone is attempting to "prove"?

Just as clearly, marriage counselors define a "sexless relationship" as one where the couple has ten or less peneratrive sexual encounters in a year. Sexless. By definition, by the professional help community.

And this has exactly WHAT to do with women marrying men for either their money or their perceived POTENTIAL to acheive a high income?

Therefore, women who have little or no sexual desire (because they started with low to begin with, or because of disease, or because of advancing age, or because of medications, or because of changing mental conditions) for men are the likely group from which one might find the "take 'em for all their worth, I won't settle for less" mentality.

This is also the group from which the "women chose rich men to have babies by" qttitude comes from, never ming that rich men are OLD compared to the desires of women who actually DO have babies. Theory disproved, in spades.

so you are saying that Dr. Hakim is WRONG? Remember, her basis for making the observation was that women were marrying men with more education than themselves. I saw nothing in that little article about ages or level of sexual desire.

So, that leaves those who insist grubbing for money -- NOT having sex with a man unless he "has money" -- without a man in their lives, for the rest of their lives. No surprise there.

Well, I don't recall "money" being the driving force behind my choice of ANY of the men in my life. Having a stable source of income and a work ethic might make a man a better candidate for a serious longterm relationship...even though my parents taught me to depend on MYSELF rather than place all reliance for a comfortable life on having a man. (Both my grandmothers experienced having men die young, or prove to be unreliable.)But I and all my siblings were encouraged to look at not only LOVE, but stabililty, potential, and work ethic in choosing our life partners.

A company usually needs to charge a customer AT LEAST 3X what it pays the worker just to stay in business, something most non-business people don't have a clue about.

On the contrary, I think most people are well aware of that. Even people who aren't retired educators are pretty good at figuring out these things work, at doing some research so as to get the best deals,etc.

The statement that women are biologically driven to marry a man "who has money" is a vacuous rationalization that does not stand even slight cursory examination. But, it seems, some people hold dear their dreams, no matter what the reality is.
I don't think anyone made that exact statement...they referred to the instincts that drive natural selection, which have morphed into longstanding cultural practice,grooming girl children to make choices based on getting a good situation in which to raise her children. And when it is still easiest and proably best to have children before age 40,yes,women tend to marry POTENTIAL,and so do men these days. That's not exactly new, though a woman's level of education and earning potential are fairly new factors in a man's selection process of a woman to form a family unit with. Of course physical attraction and good health play in, but young men also look at things like work ethic and attributes that make for a good mother. If they are just looking for fun, they might not focus so much on character, values and personality.
I can only guess that someone WANTS to think that women who make income considerations an important part of her dating and relationship decisions are shooting themselves in the foot, and they can stand up on a clock tower and bang that drum all damn day but it's not going to significantly change something that is a matter of EONS of conditioning. Yes, it IS changing in younger people, because they EXPECT to work as a team to create a household and family.
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 199
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/16/2011 10:40:37 AM
I wonder if men are experiencing that their matches are with women who make the same or less?
Is this following a proven premise in dating, or is it some kind of financial class system?
Cindy O
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 200
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/16/2011 10:52:15 AM
I'm curious about whether people have found that men do not like to marry women who make more money than them. It's possible women only have the choice of marrying men who earn more, as men who earn less will not date let alone marry them.

When I do a search for matches on POF it tells me it matches me with men who earn the same or more......


My oldest daughter, who makes substantially more than most of the men she dated, found that while they liked her they weren't committing to her, and in fact were seeing other women on the side. One guy finally told her that he didn't feel worthy enough of her since she made more money. Men still want to be the main breadwinner.

I found this article today on another study that might explain why women marry up.


Infidelity Rises When She Makes More Than He Does
In such couples, 'gender identity threat' may make men less faithful, study suggests

MONDAY, Aug. 16 (HealthDay News) -- A new study finds that men are more likely to cheat if their income is much lower than what their wife or female partner makes, while women are more likely to fool around if they make more than their husband or male partner.
The findings suggest that disparities in moneymaking play a significant role in infidelity, at least among the young couples they studied.
"With women, they were less likely to engage in infidelity the less money they make relative to their husband," said study author Christin Munsch. "But for men, the less money you make relative to your spouse, the more likely you are to engage in infidelity."
Munsch, a graduate student at Cornell University, said she came up with the idea of studying the effects of income on infidelity after hearing from a friend who has cheated on his partner. He told Munsch that "she made all the money, she had all the friends, and he'd moved up there to be with her. He felt completely powerless."
While there's been previous research into infidelity, it didn't look into differences in income among couples, Munsch said.
So she examined the results of a national survey that tracked 9,000 people beginning in 1997 when they were children. She focused on the results of the survey from 2001-2007, when the participants were between 17 and 27 years old.
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/642146.html
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 201
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/16/2011 12:05:04 PM

It's easy for a man to say that the reason he can't find the "woman of their dreams" is because ALL the women only are interested in really rich men....and are only interested in men over 6' tall...and are only interested in dating men who are very athletic...

It's easy for a woman to say that the reason she can't find the "man of her dreams" is because ALL the men only are interested in women who wear a size 1....and are only interested in women who are 10 years younger than they are....and are only interested in women who have no children living at home...

Precisely. And many of us have at one time or another probably written or spoken veriable diatribes about the situation.

But all you have to do is go downtown, or to the mall, or anywhere that you will see a lot of people, and you will see literally thousands of examples of how none of that is true....I think if we all stop looking at dating as a "shopping trip"...trying to get "the most, the best" for what "we have to offer", and instead focus on just finding someone who we are attracted to and who we enjoy being with...we're all gonna be fine.

Again, correct.With an acknowledgement for those who have become single in middle or retirement years that many of our opposite gender contemporaries are still in relationships/marriages, or are still regrouping after a marriage fails or the partner has passed away,that the pool may not be as wide and deep as it is for the twentysomethings. Some people find the prospects of having less time to go and possibly going it ALONE, a prospect that sends them into a state of near-derangement. It may indeed be part of that whole progression, something that has to be gone through,the unfortunate part being that the near-derangement can be either off-putting, OR a tool that can be used by someone who does have an "agenda".
Cindy O
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 202
view profile
History
increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money
Posted: 1/16/2011 2:40:22 PM

Three times a month or more, someone starts a topic here about how it is right and holy and biologically ordained that women can and should and do marry for money.
All statements from people who haven't been in a serious relationship since Bill Clinton's first term.
More times a month, someone starts a topic about how men, as a class, are too horny. Also from people who haven't been in a serious relationship since Bill Clinton's first term.

Gee, another memo I didn't get. I was in a serious relationship well before Clinton, and still in it well after Clinton. He never stopped being horny until he reached the point he was so medicated he barely knew who he was, not long before he died.

As for other men, I can't say. I do know what kinds of contacts I've had on numerous dating sites, and as far as I'm concerned, a man who expects to have sex before he even meets a woman - yeah, I think he's not thinking with his brain. Even in my stodgy age group there are plenty of STDs going around, and I want to know who I'm doing, not what's doing me.
Sue me for being 'too picky.'



Since the start of Bill Clinton's first term, more than a billion babies have been born with fathers too young to have made themselves rich. Born to young women who chose athletic young men, women who were themselves young and thin.

More than a billion mothers who formed intimate relationships with men since Bill Clinton's first term. Precious few of those women chose men to be fathers who were old enough to be rich.

Go take a walk around your city and take another look at a lot of those young mothers. They may be young, but not very many are thin and athletic, and they got pg by some hot guy in the 'hood. Or any guy they just happened to get it on with. "Intimate relations" really doesn't have anything to do with serious relationships. It has a lot more to do with whoever is handy at the moment, and there's no thought of the future in any way, unless you consider the potential for 'baby daddy' or 'baby momma' drama the future.......



Go figure. Rich ... or ... athletic? Rich ... or ... handsome?

What a shallow and superficial way to look at the world. My daughter's husband, while healthy, is neither rich nor GQ handsome, though he's good looking. He is bright and has a job he loves, and to her, he's handsome. She's probably more athletic than he is, she runs about 5 miles/day, but she also had her first baby at 38, not 17.



BTW, one can indeed work as and call themselves a psychologist with just a BA degree. They can not, however, treat patients in a clinical setting.

BTW, most welders -- like most other tradesmen -- work as journeymen. Journeyman is the standard, not master. Even most masters draw journeyman's wages most of the time, if they want to work.

BTW, "journeyman" is not a raw rookie beginner. That is an "apprentice".

BTW, how many who claim to fully understand tradesmen's work know the difference between Snap-On and Craftsmen, a Dykes and a side Dykes, an SAE and a Whitworth, a Forstner from an EZ-Out?

Who really cares, as long as the Snap-On truck shows up where and when it's supposed to?

And BTW, my plumber works for himself, his wife does the books. So that 75.00/hour he gets, he does indeed get to keep. It's not going to some company that sends him out on calls and pays him an hourly wage. Most of the plumbers I've known - and electricians, and furnace/HVAC repairmen - have all worked the same way, and they make steady high incomes, even in today's economy. No one, no matter how hard hit they are, wants to go without running water or deal with an electric stove that doesn't work.
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > increasing numbers of women are marrying men for their money