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 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 26
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islamization of london englandPage 2 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
msg 26 and msg 27

it sounds to me that you are both very intolerant of the intolerance, and hateful of the hate that you seem to claim that i have.

better watch. someone might denounce and accuse you of being what you claim others to be.

anyway lads im going to have myself some beers. and im going to drink more than the health fascists say is good for me as well.

vlad dracul

p.s.( funny how the father of vlad the impaler and the creation of baron frankenstein, both gothic outsiders are debating)
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 27
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/3/2011 4:43:21 PM
tolerance of intolerance has only allowed the far right to empower themselves further into the monsters they have become. Just because we no longer roll over, allow the lies and craziness to go unchallenged, does not mean that the remaining sane people are falling down to their low levels, but rather, that good people must speak truth to evil. No judgement involved, when it is so obvious that the motivations, results, and intentions of such actions from the far Reich, are indeed against basic human decency, truth, and sustainable cultures. By every measure in the reality based world, the tactics and results of those actions from that faction, are indeed the antithesis of making the world better, improving human relations, and providing sustainable solutions for a plethora of quantitative results.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 28
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/3/2011 5:50:18 PM

manufacturing fantasies to support their downward spiral into insanity.


Maybe you can make yourself available to give them some lessons in that. If you had anything coherent or rational to say, I might take you up on the points. But nothing I've seen from you even rates the effort of taping my hands and lacing on the gloves. I'll leave this thread to you.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 29
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 12:09:53 AM
msg 30
i have to say that all i took from the previous post to your one is that people who do not subscribe to the intlib (very catchy and soundbiteish) view will be dragged kicking and screaming until they do.
one mans 'far reich' is another mans normality. but intlibs dont want normality.

they have to interfere, tell you what you can eat, what you can drink and how much, if you wish to smoke you will treated as a criminal.

i tend to find though that intlibs never put a good argument up for the interference in everyones life.

if you chose to go and live in the country, miles away from anywhere. contact others when you need to but otherwise leave all the rat race behind. sounds good.

oh no its not. why are you staying away out here? where are your taxes, why have you not registered with the authorities so they can watch your every move and spy on you. the intlib wet dream. one world. their world. one leader. we want you big hilary

just a wee aside for you. did you know that in the uk you need a licence to watch tv? they come to your door and make you sign up there and then. it costs around £150 per year.

if you refuse to get one you can be fined £1000 or jailed. now thats intlib at its best.

and the money goes to the bbc, who of course monitor what goes out on the screen. hand picked tv of course.

anyway its going around in circles now. but the intlibs can try and control every aspect of our lives but they cannot silence non conformists having free thought.

go to your death with both hands untied mate.


all the best

vlad
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 30
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 8:08:25 AM

Laugh all you want, but Islam has given rights to women like no other!!!!

1). Right for education
2). Right to own property
3). Right to Own businesses
4). Divorce rights
5). Right to choose their own husband.


Even suggesting Islam GAVE these right to women indicates complete misogyny and a total lack of respect for women. Women always had these rights. You would have had to have taken them away in the first place in order to give them back.


Lets put it this way. I am not knowledgeable as I should be in religion matters.


No kidding.
 slybandit
Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 31
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 9:40:47 AM
@Matchlight:

1. It may sound like a quibble, but Dhimmitude was never a "subhuman" status, to start with. When dhimmitude actually was historically enforced, the status of non-Muslims in Muslim-controlled territory was much better than the status of non-Christians in Christian-controlled territory.

2. The virulent hatred of Islamists for Jews does have roots in the Qu'ran, more specifically in the petty tribal squabbles between the Prophet's followers and various groups of Jews in Arabia in the 7th century. But it's modern manifestation is primarily political and not simply religious in origin-- not that the Islamists make any clear distinctions, because Islam as they understand it is inherently political. It has everything to do with the "Naqba" or 'disaster'-- the creation of the state of Israel and the perpetuation of Israel's sovereignty over some of the 'holiest' sites in Islam.

3. That whole debate is completely internally contradictory in any event. Anyone who has done any serious study of the Qu'ran has to be aware that Muslims have, in effect, a duty to revolt against any government that is not run according to Qu'ranic principles. They are also not supposed to live in countries that are not run according to Qu'ranic principles.

Immigration to the West is actually contrary to Islam, which is a point which Islamists in Western countries conveniently ignore.

4. According to certain strands of Judaism, the existence of Israel in its present form is blasphemous. The general consensus is that the Mosiach has not returned, and Israel is not supposed to be established until He does return. Needless to say, many Jews have an issue with this belief system but this is cherry-picking out of religious texts.

So both 9/11 and the "Naqba" were contrary to Islamic and Jewish law, respectively, because Muslims, under Quranic law, have no business being in secular and sinful America, and Jews, under Halakhic law, have no business establishing a state in Palestine because the Mosiach is not back yet.

5. The "threat" is not just from radical Islamists. Political Islamism in its present form exists for very good reasons.

Many people in Western countries are just completely uninformed of the history of the rest of the world.

Western countries have a track record over the last century and into this one of invading, colonizing, co-opting and dominating countries all over the Muslim world. Iraq is only the latest example of this, and thousands of people have died as a result of an invasion prompted by lies. Western countries also have a track record of propping up the brutal dictatorships that populations across the Middle East are in revolt against right now, in Tunisia and Egypt and elsewhere.

I'm not defending terrorism, but oppressing people has consequences, and one of those consequences is that they try to lash out and strike back. No insult is intended to Muslims by this analogy, but if you kick a dog, how can you be offended if it bites you?
 ModestMouse30
Joined: 1/11/2011
Msg: 32
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 9:45:36 AM
^^^

How many women in Europe could own property or had divorce rights that time?

Many Arabs used to burry their infant daughters alive out of shame.

Holy Quran has stressed on respecting your parents. And prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has stressed more on respecting your mother and treating her like a precious jewel. The way I see it, if a man can't respect his own mother then I don't think he can ever respect any women. The respect for women start at your own home. And no woman deserves more respect than a mother in my opinion!!!!

That's how you respect a woman. In an ideal Islamic society, a woman is a sister, mother, an aunt, or a respectable grandmother. In that society she is all of that, but not a sex symbol as it is the case in the western society.

That's another thing that this noble idea was not implemented.

Historically, women and the minorities have been treated badly in every society. It were not until the late 20th century till the minorities and the women got full rights. For a long time, women couldn't even vote in USA.

It took USA almost 175 years to get their constitution right. Minorities suffered badly specially African Americans at the hands of majority whites. Many of the nations in the Islamic world are new. I call them new because many of their geographical boundaries have been changed since world war 1. If it took USA that many years to get the things right, so we need to be patient with these newly formed nations to get their laws right.

We have no right to implement our own ideas on them. What works for one nation, it does not work for another.

You can't use robitussin syrup to cure Diabetes. Get the idea?
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 33
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 10:02:46 AM

when they build the new mosque/islamic centre at ground zero will islam show the same tolerance and show that they respect others rights to live as non islamists? will there be a couple of bars built nearby?


Anyone very familiar with the area will tell you it is right smack dab in the center of a bunch of adult bookstores, bars and sex shops. But no one seems to object to those within walking distance from ground zero.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 34
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 10:26:45 AM
msg 34

i applaud you for your comments about your mother mate. she is the most important woman in your life.

but you do not seem to mention repecting western women? or indeed the wider population of muslim women.

after i read your post i remembered seeing a link one time of a muslim woman ripping a cleric to bits. and another about an islamic woman tv presenter.

could you please give them a wee look and pass comment?

again im not sure how to post links but typing into youtube

arab woman versus muslim cleric

and

muslim woman tells the truth about islam

i would be very interested to hear what you think. the second clip the holy man talking basically says she has to be not seen or heard.


cheers mate

msg 35

do you think that the bars and sleaze shops will still be there once the mosque is built though? in the uk, places have a habit of losing licences and having to close down. maybe just a coincidence though


vlad
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 35
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 12:17:42 PM
I guess some of us have forgotten that despite the unsubatantiated assertions of " hundreds of rape rooms" or [recent] mass graves in 2003 women in Iraq were walking their streets freely, getting the same education as men, and getting great jobs including some at the highest levels of government. Beyond women did you know Tariq Aziz was/is a Christian OP? The Invasion of Iraq gave women, Christians, etc., a one-way ticket to the 12th century. Sadly anyone that actually thinks these things through knows that our invasion signed the death notice for Iraq, partition is certainly the only ultimate solution.

There is no denying misogyny is alive and well in the Muslim World. However misogyny is alive and well throughout every world. Women in this country still make significantly less than men for doing the same work. Shame on those that stereotype billions on the basis of a few thousand bad apples. If we were really at war with the Muslim World we'd of had attacks far graver than 911 by now. If you "think" anyone or anything made us "safer" you are unequivocally ill informed. It simply is not in the interest of any REAL community to attack the United States or the West and galvanize support for MASSIVE retaliation.

I urge every citizen of the free world to act like an adult and not succumb to the ludicrous stereotype of billions from a tiny basket of bad apples.

Peace,

John
 Booyahhh
Joined: 11/4/2010
Msg: 36
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 4:12:32 PM
RE: "Tiny basket of bad apples"

That "tiny basket" is very dangerous....people's willingness to ignore, embrace, or even revere it is alarming in its insanity, not to mention danger to the rest of us.

Just because something is small doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.
 jsphn11
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 37
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 6:01:15 PM

Just because something is small doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.

Sounds so simple, but how many people still don't understand that....
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 38
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 6:20:01 PM

Just because something is small doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.

For something small to become dangerous it requires validation, thus assuming something small is dangerous is a self fulling prophecy and therefore a dangerous thing to do.

If you acknowledge its existence but do not give it any attention, it will never be come relevant.

Just like a crying baby, only deal with it when you really have to, and it will work out for the best.
 Booyahhh
Joined: 11/4/2010
Msg: 39
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/5/2011 12:22:11 AM
I am not willing to wait until this country is under Sharia law to finally acknowledge the danger of the "tiny basket of apples". That will be too late.

Fundamentalist radical Islamics are dangerous. It is a fact.

What does it take for people to get that thru their heads? For it to be cut off while the benign "apples" praise Allah?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 40
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/5/2011 7:10:36 AM
Frankster...Trying to control the infestation of the Dominionists far right is difficult because of the stealthy tactics they use to attain office, willingness to lie to whatever degree it takes to manipulate the voting public, and often gobs of money thrown at them by corportations who can use willing fools like them. The electorate is also easily distracted/manipulated and kept in a constant state of fear of imaginary boogie-men. Islamophobia and anti-immigrant hysteria are just a couple of those tools/lies that keep people looking at the wrong direction while the real threat to the republic and democracy is standing right in front of them.

The Dominionists are getting on school boards, re-writing history, to the congress trying to re-write the constitution. Our last congressman was a C-Street Theocrat who tried for the governorship. Most people were unaware of how deeply his theocratic roots were, and unfamiliar with the evil doings of The Family.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 41
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/5/2011 10:11:32 AM

Holy Quran has stressed on respecting your parents. And prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has stressed more on respecting your mother and treating her like a precious jewel. The way I see it, if a man can't respect his own mother then I don't think he can ever respect any women. The respect for women start at your own home. And no woman deserves more respect than a mother in my opinion!!!!

That's how you respect a woman. In an ideal Islamic society, a woman is a sister, mother, an aunt, or a respectable grandmother. In that society she is all of that, but not a sex symbol as it is the case in the western society.


The holy Quran is vastly different from the religious laws the nuttier practitioners of Islam have come up with over the years and especially lately. One small bad apple example is making women wear bags over their heads. There's nothing in the holy Quran about that. That's the disconnect us infidels see all the time.

This is going to be another example....complete the sentence "In an ideal Islamic society, a man is........."

ps-single women with no kids and no siblings (not sisters, mothers, grandmothers)...aka, sex symbols, are very much worthy of your respect too. You're the one who should be averting your eyes in shame young man.
 ModestMouse30
Joined: 1/11/2011
Msg: 42
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/5/2011 10:50:45 AM
^^^

When I said women, I was including the women that are single and with no kids also. Even the hot looking ones!!!!

Get it now?
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 43
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/5/2011 11:32:27 AM
I never said anything about forgetting the bad apples, I put them in an actually relevant instead of ignorant and bigoted perspective. What will you do? You want to keep spending more than 20 times as EVERYONE else combined on defense and keep pushing our Grandchildren into greater and greater debt while we are still just as vulnerable to a massive terrorist attack? You don't see that as a terrorist victory? With all due respect get thee beyond the trees.

We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear. When we allow fear to consume us WE LOOSE.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 44
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/5/2011 4:34:25 PM

When I said women, I was including the women that are single and with no kids also. Even the hot looking ones!!!!

Get it now?


Well no. You didn't say that or imply it in any way. You specifically said that ideally women will be mothers, sisters, grandmothers, aunts and not sex symbols. Your language was precise and clearly indicates you have taken the holy Quran and run with it just a little bit.

Here's another little bad apple from a few posts ago...


He just wants a safer environment for her daughter that is something beyond the understanding of the west. When he can't find such surroundings, he has no choice but to keep his daughter illiterate!!!


Is that in the holy Quran some where?

So no, I don't get it now. Sorry.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 45
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/5/2011 5:49:35 PM
The bible is equally or even moreso, dismisive of over half the world's population and more than that, the intelligence.

Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Isaiah 3:12
As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Colossians 3:18
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.

1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 46
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/7/2011 7:14:45 AM
Laugh all you want, but Islam has given rights to women like no other!!!!
1). Right for education
2). Right to own property
3). Right to Own businesses
4). Divorce rights
5). Right to choose their own husband.


Well I would laugh, but it's not the least bit funny. What country are you talking about? The US? Certainly none in the middle east. Divorce rights? Who are you kidding with this? How about the fact that if a Muslim woman is raped, then SHE is the one charged with adultery? Great logic there.

If the "facts" quoted by ModestMouse are true, then Muhammad seems to have been a bit contraditory.

The fear of Islam is based on the actions of the extremists. Of which there are many, with the intent of taking the world by force wherever necessary.
 ModestMouse30
Joined: 1/11/2011
Msg: 47
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/7/2011 8:51:59 AM
^^^

Stop judging the ideology based on the action of few. And how Muhammad was in contradiction? When he himself practiced what he preached. How about you pick up a book on Islamic history and study hadiths (The sayings of Prophet Muhammad) and then come and talk to me?

Yes it is sad that a woman is always get punished even when she is raped. That is because the powerful people try to cover up their crimes, they bribe the police and authorities, and they make it look like that woman was a prostitute and she was a whore. Not because Islam said so to treat a woman like that.

Seriously your comments have really offended me and they are really forcing me to question your intelligence!!!

Do you even know how hard it is to prove adultery in Sharia Law if the law is implemented correctly?

Enough said!!!!
 ModestMouse30
Joined: 1/11/2011
Msg: 48
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/7/2011 9:11:13 AM
^^

It is very difficult to prove it. You require four witnesses to prove it. Obviously these guidelines are ignore in countries like Pakistan where caste system and class system is existed when a poor woman of a lower caste is raped by some one form higher caste.
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 49
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/7/2011 9:38:25 AM
Fair enough. You comments have really offended me too.

Let's just call it a day.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 50
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/7/2011 9:45:04 AM

That is because the powerful people try to cover up their crimes, they bribe the police and authorities, and they make it look like that woman was a prostitute and she was a whore. Not because Islam said so to treat a woman like that.


I realize English is your second language so I'm not in anyway attacking your writing...I can't speak a lick of Arabic so you're much more accomplished than me. But you really need to read what you write for context...for what it implies. In the above, it sounds like it's okay in Islamic law to treat a prostitute or whore to a whack of stones. Again, what you write and what you're trying to say are very different. Do you think it's okay to stone whores? There's nothing in the holy Quran about stoning adultresses, but that is how it has been interpreted by religious scholars and Mullahs. And this again becomes the religious laws that are not okay and that do not represent a small fraction of the Islamic world. It represents entire countries, vast populations, millions of people. It's not a small thing. It's not even an extreme thing. It's common law for many Islamic nations.


It is very difficult to prove it. You require four witnesses to prove it.


I'll bet you those witnesses must be male. How many female witnesses would it take?
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