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 AUTHOR
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 76
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islamization of london englandPage 4 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
Amazing how conveniently folks ignore the insanity in their own circles.


You're not getting it. That is messed up. If you want to start a thread about how messed up nutty, wacky christians are, I'm all in. It's very simply that the topic of this thread is different.


These d*ckheads are not only intent on global domination via violent theocracy, they plan to institute that theocracy here.


Then I guess it's good we have laws to prevent such nonsense. But still, you're afraid of this group? Would that be a rational phobia then? Or irrational?

Just as an aside, I peeked into the bios of a couple of the representatives mentioned in the article about the nutty christians. None of these guys in government sound particularily scary. Here's what Stupak has been up to recently...


Stupak voted for the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009, which expanded the definition of hate crimes to include sexual orientation and gender identity.


As for the 3000 times more likely to be murdered by a xian in the US....do your own math.


I'm not questioning your math. It could be ten thousand times more likely. That's just not the point.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 77
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/9/2011 8:30:17 AM
ModestMouse i think you are being a wee bit economical with the truth if you do not think islam has tried to invade the west.

Vlad Tepes fought a very succesful guerilla war against the ottoman empire and stopped islam in its tracks.

oh and earthpuppy that doesnt need links to awful christians and links to their deeds.

anyway thanks for your insights ModestMouse.

another couple of questions if you dont mind mate?

what happens when someone converts from islam to christianity or judaism? is it just accepted ?

and the fatwa that was issued on salman rushdie for his book 'the satanic verses' what was that all about? (although i think your lot may have been correct as he is turgid in extremis)

oh and again, earthpuppy let the man answer first before you go on your christian hating rant with links to converts and fatwas.

cheers in advance MM.

vlad dracul
 4rumninja
Joined: 11/30/2009
Msg: 78
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/9/2011 10:51:49 AM
Why are those who support the Muslims unwilling to offer any evidence as to why it is good for England or any other country?
The only thing that is being offered is that Christians are bad too...

Someone supporting the Muslim invasion and unwillingness to assimilate, please offer something other than "people who oppose this are Hypocrites because Christians are bad etc..."

Are many Terrorist acts based on certain Muslims interpretation of the Qu'ran?

Is allowing them to create their own communities governed by their own laws within any country a good thing?

Getting bored with all the misdirection..please offer something that proves that people should not be concerned........

There is a difference between phobic and concerned..labeling people as Islamaphobic is just another attempt by people to marginalize those who are concerned...it implies lack or rationality ...

Since many Muslims commit terrorist acts in the name of their religion everyday it is not irrational to be concerned...
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 79
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/10/2011 9:57:47 AM
well i did say let the man answer first BEFORE the christianophobic rant.

i did not say do not rant, i believe anyone who wants to rant should rant.
but the thing is earthpuppy tends not to try and answer anything, just find christianophobic rants.

ModestMouse is at least trying to answer some questions about islam from his muslim point of view.

if earthpuppy wishes to write christianophobic rants carry on.

im not a christian it bothers me none. anyone who wants to believe in a god or religion feel free. none of my business.

but when i find my freedom of expression being eroded because i feel my lifestyle under threat by a religion which accepts no man made laws only the laws that are set down in their holy book then i feel i have the right to object.

i live in a country where religion is a scourge between christian sects. but they are not trying to change my way of life.

i do find the droning intlibs amusing though as they cherry pick the bits they want to argue about.

lets take 'arranged' marriages then. yep in muslim culture its accepted in certain areas, in the uk its not common practice. most 'arranged' marriages are probably fine between the couples. but when young girls have to go and hide in this country as its not what they want then that is unacceptable. organisations are springing up everywhere to protect these young lassies. intlibs tend to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it doent happen.

it does. you might find it ok but most uk citizens do not.

i obviously cannot speak for the citizens in other countrys.

vlad dracul
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 80
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/10/2011 10:11:16 AM
Getting bored with all the misdirection..please offer something that proves that people should not be concerned........

Ok then, provide 5 examples how Muslims have directly affected your quality of life?


If not, then we can assume you are just ranting based on misinformation or your hatred lies deeper.





lets take 'arranged' marriages then. yep in muslim culture its accepted in certain areas, in the uk its not common practice. most 'arranged' marriages are probably fine between the couples. but when young girls have to go and hide in this country as its not what they want then that is unacceptable. organisations are springing up everywhere to protect these young lassies. intlibs tend to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it doent happen.

Nice cherry picked Islamicphobic rant you have there.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 81
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/10/2011 2:13:18 PM
Let it be known that I am of a Christian heritage and consider most Christians to be as kind and decent as anyone of any religion. In my rants, I sought to point out that for all the fear of others coming into our countries, that our own homegrown terrorists of the Christian taliban, Christofascists, and other Beatitudes haters who look just like "us", are in our midst, poised, ready and willing to dramatically change our country to their liking. Our fundies and abusers of religion are more numerous and a far more real threat. Much of their unfounded fear and hatred is being directed to homosexuals, brown people, and people of Islam. Much of that is being motivated by change in demographics. Whites will become a minority in the US in a few decades. The angy and fearful ones have to keep stirring sh*t up in futile hopes that will stem the tide of change.

That's one way to try to cope, but it tends to exacerbate tensions and divisions rather than address the issue. We have two towns here in Tennessee dealing with their growing Muslim population in two entirely different ways. One is doing the screaming anti-mosque, clammouring, threatening crowd route. In the other town, the church across the street where the mosque is being built opened it's doors to it's neighbors to allow them a place of worship til theirs is completed. I saw pictures out of Egypt, of Christian Egyptians, locking arms to protect their Muslim Brothers as they knelt in prayer.

We are all stuck on this finite planet, about to hit a food and fuel crisis of epic proportions. Expending such fear, misinformation about, and hate toward others is only going to make the mess worse and exploit crucial resources as we try to survive these changes.

As for arranged marriages...Adam and Eve was the first recorded Jewish and Christian marriage, and arranged marriages are making a comeback in those circles. Meanwhile, Muslim cultures are liberalizing away from such practices, marriages are by mutual consent, and tend to last longer and more frequently than western marriages. As for Muslim women..Ask what they think. More inquiry and less assumption on all issues related to Islam might open hearts and eyes and reduce tensions to the point we can all get along.

Here's what Mohja Kafh has to say on the subject of marriage in Islam.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/03/AR2008100301968.html
snip..
And the reasons for being a joyful Muslim woman go beyond the spiritual. Marriage is a contract in Islam, not a sacrament. The prenup is not some new invention; it's the standard Muslim format. I can put whatever I want in it, but Muslims never get credit for that. Or for having mahr, the bridegift that goes from the man to the woman -- not to her family, but to her, for her own private use. A mahr has to have significant value -- a year's salary, say. And if patriarchal customs have overridden Islam and whittled away this blessing in many Muslim locales, it's still there, available, in the law. Hey, I got mine (cash, partly deferred because my husband was broke when we married; like a loan to him, owed to me whenever I want to claim it) -- and I was married in Saudi Arabia, a country whose personal-status laws are drawn from the most conservative end of the Muslim spectrum.

I had to sign my name indicating my consent, or the marriage contract would not have been valid under Saudi Islamic law. And, of course, I chose whom to marry. Every Muslim girl in the conservative circle of my youth chose her husband. We just did it our way, a conservative Muslim way, and we did it without this nonsensical Western custom of teenage dating. My friends Salma and Magda chose at 16 and 17: Salma to marry boy-next-door Muhammad, with whom she grew up, and Magda to marry a doctor 10 years her senior who came courting from half a world away. Both sisters have careers, one as a counselor, one as a school principal, and both are still vibrantly married and vibrantly Muslim, their kids now in college.

I held out until I was 18, making my parents beat back suitors at the door until I was good and ready. And here I am, still married to the guy I finally let in the door, 22 years (some of them not even dysfunctional) later. My cousin, on the other hand, broke off a marriage she contracted (but did not consummate) at 16 and chose another man. Another childhood friend, Zeynab, chose four times and is looking for Mr. Fifth. Her serial monogamy is nothing new or radical; she didn't pick up the idea from reading Cosmo or from the "liberating" influence of U.S. troops in Afghanistan. It's simply what a lot of women in early Muslim history did, in 7th- and 8th-century Arabia.

And would you guess that we've also been freer to divorce and remarry than Christian women have been for most of history? In medieval times, when Christian authorities were against divorce and remarriage, this was seen as another Islamic abomination. Now that divorce and remarriage are popular in the West, Muslims don't get credit for having had that flexibility all along. We just can't win with the Muslim-haters.
end snip..

snip..
Here's another one: Medieval Christianity excoriated Islam for being orgiastic, which seems to mean that Muslims didn't lay a guilt trip on hot sex (at least within what were deemed licit relationships). Now that hot sex is all the rage in the post-sexual revolution West, you'd think Muslims would get some credit for the pro-sex attitude of Islam -- but no. The older stereotype has been turned on its head, and in the new one, we're the prudes. Listen, we're the only monotheistic faith I know with an actual legal rule that the wife has a right to orgasm.

end snip..
 ModestMouse30
Joined: 1/11/2011
Msg: 82
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/11/2011 10:13:07 AM
^^^

I choose not to answer Vlad's questions any more. Because others have done a great job!!!

I am very thankful to Mr. Earth Puppy for making such great points.
 gardenias2
Joined: 1/13/2011
Msg: 83
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/11/2011 11:59:28 AM
slightly off topic....i wish people would think for themselves as opposed to the filters imposed by their respective religions.

when it comes to people worshiping god i see 2 types of people:
1. those who love their religion first
2. those who love god first

if you genuinely love god first and foremost then you can love all your brothers and sisters not just a select few and humans will stop being so dam boring and predictable.
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 84
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/11/2011 12:29:01 PM

Let it be known........
Here's what Mohja Kafh has to say on the subject of marriage in Islam.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/03/AR2008100301968.html


This was a great post. Thank you.
 gardenias2
Joined: 1/13/2011
Msg: 85
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/12/2011 11:08:04 AM
i think the biggest problem with any organized religion is when there are too many of them in one area or country. as a minority they usually behave themselves. i read the stats not long ago(sorry no link) that when you have too many muslims in a country they start getting out of hand....sharia law, you know the whole kitten kabootle.

religions have a cult mentality. how else can individuals and families get so involved without thinking they are the supreme religion and belief system? the inscripion over the entrance of most catholic churches says its the one and only true church of god.

you get too many people together thinking how special they are and full blown meglomania starts setting in. we are so great that we are going to inhiliate everyone else yahoooo!!!! this is our world history folks.....boring and predictable, no?
 sexyisback!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 86
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/12/2011 12:12:16 PM

i think the biggest problem with any organized religion is when there are too many of them in one area or country.


so..that would be like "Roman catholics" in many countries, esp. S. America, parts of Europe?

way too many of those RCs in some places

perhaps Protestants in USA or UK?

VVVVV


Yep, those Protestants and RC's, way too uppity.


would have appeared to be the case during those murderous killing fests called "the Crusades";

and then again in No. Ireland , esp. from about 1940-s' through 1990's.

VVVVVVVV
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 87
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/12/2011 1:48:10 PM
"i think the biggest problem with any organized religion is when there are too many of them in one area or country. as a minority they usually behave themselves. i read the stats not long ago(sorry no link) that when you have too many muslims in a country they start getting out of hand....sharia law, you know the whole kitten kabootle. "

When you make such ignorant, outrageous claims, at least attempt to back them up with some sort of citation.

Most problems come when a dominant, and often oppressive majority, eventually gives way to more diversity in a community, as we are seeing in the US today. Therre was the fear of blacks getting to vote and have equal rights and the riots, dogs, lynchings, Jim Crowe, mob scenes at schools, etc. Where I was raised, the Germans resented the Norskies, Swedes and Pollacks, who came to these shores after the german immigranst gobbled up the good land. There were also those pesky Irish immigrants that were going to send the nation to hell in a handbasket, Slavs, Catholics, and a number of other scapegoats for the real problem of majority human ignorance. The majority did not behave themselves in most cases, as did neither the Brits against the Irish.

As for "Sharia law"phobes. Do you even know what you are fearing? http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/09/sumbul-ali-karamali-whos-afraid-of-shariah/a
Here they are, the six principles of shariah:

1. The right to the protection of life.
2. The right to the protection of family.
3. The right to the protection of education.
4. The right to the protection of religion.
5. The right to the protection of property (access to resources).
6. The right to the protection of human dignity.

Pretty terrifying stuff there. Perhaps we could incorporate some of that...oh WAIT...Dayammm..we called shariah the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We've been under Shariah principles for hundreds of years. Must have been those Muslim slaves we brought over that took over our country in 1776.

Sumbul Ali-Karamali also wrote a moving piece on being in Egypt as an observer. Muslims defending Christians, and Christians defending Muslims. Of course that is an older civilization and we have a lot of growing up to do...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sumbul-alikaramali/egyptian-muslims-egyptian_b_818829.html
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 88
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Posted: 2/12/2011 2:18:37 PM
As for "Sharia law"phobes. Do you even know what you are fearing? http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/09/sumbul-ali-karamali-whos-afraid-of-shariah/a
Here they are, the six principles of shariah:

1. The right to the protection of life.
2. The right to the protection of family.
3. The right to the protection of education.
4. The right to the protection of religion.
5. The right to the protection of property (access to resources).
6. The right to the protection of human dignity.

Pretty terrifying stuff there.


C'mon man. You have to know that Sharia laws is totally dependent upon who is interpreting it. You get a few nutty Imams and you have a whole different kaboodle of kittens. Modernist, traditional or fundamental makes a huge differences in Sharia law. It's a big jump from deciding what's halal to stoning people to death.


As of 2010, stoning is practiced in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, Iraq and Iran.


So yeah, fundamental sharia law is very scary. It's not at allsimilar to halakha ( jewish law) which is reserved for family or civil issues and matter of religious interpretation. Sharia law goes well beyond civil matters in a lot of countries.


Even a fanatic Mullah in ideal conditions would like to see her daughter educated. He just wants a safer environment for her daughter that is something beyond the understanding of the west. When he can't find such surroundings, he has no choice but to keep his daughter illiterate!!!


I keep going back to this quote and thinking that this is one example of what David Cameron is talking about when he suggests there is a cultural disconnect in his country. If you think it is unsafe to educate your daughter here or in Great Britain for whatever reason (teenagers dating, drugs, alcohol, slutty clothes, whatever) and you have no ability to home school her and your only choice is to keep her illiterate, then for the sake of your daughter, you should not move here.
 ModestMouse30
Joined: 1/11/2011
Msg: 89
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/12/2011 3:02:39 PM
^^^

No one wants to leave their homeland. The fact is, the west has oppressed all the non western countries for so long.

A fact for you!!! No Muslims was even remotely interested visiting a country in Europe during the middle ages even for a vacation. They were living a happy and prosperous life under their own Muslim kings, laws, and life style. They were advanced in every walk of life.

Go and study how British manipulated the people of India when they came to India, then you will know what I am talking about.

I don't have time to write the whole ssay!!!!

Oh yeah one more fact. Muslims never burned jews for being jews as it was a common practice in Europe in Middle Ages. The fact that Coptic and Assyrian Christians have lived in Middle East for hundred of years that goes to show that Muslims living around them ae not that bad. I am sure, Muslims had every opportunity in the world to throw all the religious minorities from Arab lands, but they never did. When Christians got the very first opportunity to throw out Muslims, they did so in a very brutal fashion.

So who has been more afraid of Islamophobia? Give me a break?

Let me ask you guys a question?

When Islam says, not to do give some one loan based on interested what is wrong with it?

When Islam says give at least 2.5% of your wealth to the poor every year? What is wrong with it?

When Islam says stay away from drugs, aclohol, and all the other ills what is wrong with it?

When Islam says show modesty in your life style so that people can respect you as a human being what is wrong with it ?

I like to see a woman more than just a juicy piece of meat. However, as a guy it is very hard for me to treat a woman like a woman when I see her in minmal clothing who is openly inviting people to rape her? Not physically, but through their eyes, thoughts, and in every possible imaginary ways. What kind of an impression a woman is leaving by dressing like that?

That woman could be some one's sister. Some one's mother. Some one's wife. Some one's aunt or in some cases some one's grandmother. Could I treat her like my own sister when she is showing all of her assets in sexual way on tv? Hell not. It is not possible.

What is so wrong about preventing men from disrespecting a woman like that?

You tell me this.
 Booyahhh
Joined: 11/4/2010
Msg: 90
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/12/2011 4:06:17 PM
Oh boy......^^^^^^^^^ time to break out the popcorn.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 91
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Posted: 2/12/2011 4:25:27 PM

When Islam says, not to do give some one loan based on interested what is wrong with it?


That would be awesome if it were reality. First rule of economics in any language faith or culture...There's no free lunch. Islamic banks or lenders have different ways of getting paid than interest. For example, a bank will buy the house you want and then sell it back to you at an inflated rate and lend you the money to complete the purchase for free. So they are making a capital gain on the house, but are not making any interest. It's common practice with many different types of loans, cars, any secured loan. But you can rest assured that there is no Islamic bank handing out loans for free.


When Islam says give at least 2.5% of your wealth to the poor every year? What is wrong with it?


That's great. One of the best features of many religions around the world. I believe Christianity says 10% goes to charity first so does that make Christians better? Kidding. Chill.


When Islam says stay away from drugs, aclohol, and all the other ills what is wrong with it?


Fabulous. It's just the penalties with extremism again are too harsh. You shouldn't get whipped or cained or stoned for drinking.


When Islam says show modesty in your life style so that people can respect you as a human being what is wrong with it ?


Fine. But when you take that and interpret it to mean all women must wear bags over their heads and can't leave the house without a man and if they do you can beat them with a stick, it gets a little diluted from its original meaning.


I like to see a woman more than just a juicy piece of meat. However, as a guy it is very hard for me to treat a woman like a woman when I see her in minmal clothing who is openly inviting people to rape her?


This will get you cyber killed here.


Not physically, but through their eyes, thoughts, and in every possible imaginary ways. What kind of an impression a woman is leaving by dressing like that?


So if women with bare arms create this reaction in muslim men, then maybe western countries aren't the place for you. You can't really avoid women in Canada, the US and Great Britain so you have two choices. Don't live here. Or segregate yourself into predominately muslim communities and avoid western style living as much as possible. This is the disconnect Cameron was speaking of and one of the reasons multiculturalism doesn't seem to work with Islam.


That woman could be some one's sister. Some one's mother. Some one's wife. Some one's aunt or in some cases some one's grandmother. Could I treat her like my own sister when she is showing all of her assets in sexual way on tv? Hell not. It is not possible.


If not now, I'd give it about three posts from now, before you'll realize this is entirely your issue, has nothing to do with women and is something you will need to change to live succesfully in a western society. You really can't live here thinking in this way. You'll be jailed for some form of assault very quickly.

Thanks for your honesty, modestmouse. It's a scary reality but one that is very common.
 MondoVman
Joined: 4/26/2009
Msg: 92
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/12/2011 4:27:27 PM
Ah, so it's about not being able to control one's erections.
In the states, adults know that most young people would be completely untrustworthy behind the wheel of a high-performance automobile. Yet, American males' erections arise many times of day, regardless their religion.
Not so in islama-nosexualexposure land?
 gardenias2
Joined: 1/13/2011
Msg: 93
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/12/2011 4:51:19 PM
I like to see a woman more than just a juicy piece of meat. However, as a guy it is very hard for me to treat a woman like a woman when I see her in minmal clothing who is openly inviting people to rape her? Not physically, but through their eyes, thoughts, and in every possible imaginary ways. What kind of an impression a woman is leaving by dressing like that?


guess what? the entire world is being affected by multi-national corporations spending billions of dollars in advertising to get people to dress like that, drive that car etc.....and to keep spending their dollars.

with the above information it is your responsibility as an adult to be aware of the programming bombardment on young underage teenagers and to behave like an adult and control yourself.

as with most middle eastern religions there is an incredible childish precedence to blame women and girls as being the negative part of being human.

grow up and learn that women are your equal counterpart....they balance you. you only get a false sense of superiority by abusing and objectifying them. there is good in man and bad in man and the same in women. like i said grow up.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 94
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/13/2011 11:27:45 AM
well you could do worse than look to tower hamlets and newham.

as for the east europeans i know what its like. im in the building trade my wages are heading downward

who said overrun by muslims? what ive said is that in some areas of the uk sharia law is practiced. why? the rest of us cant call special courts. the muslims , unless born here are guests in this country. they should be trying to integrate. but nope set yourself aside and then wonder why 'the ordinary' people of the uk get pissed off

i know newspapers print crap to get headlines but every time there is a headline there is a story. trivial maybe? but its usually something that is so petty that it gets bloody annoying that some guilt ridden middle class intlib feels the need to intervene and secure that wee result.

as i stated before im not a christian so i have no guilt ridden conciense.

im certainly not an intlib and i feel guilt about nothing this country has done in the past.

you should take a stroll late at night (if your a non muslim) and see what they think of you in the ocean estate or wander with the missus in spittalfields late at night. i certainly wish more intlibs would so they can experience the multi culti shitholes that they dont mind foisting on the indigenous population


vlad dracul
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 95
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Posted: 2/13/2011 11:39:13 AM
the muslim slaves?

is the origin of the word slave not derived from slav? whom muslims enslaved in their countless thousands?

i was just reading an article about slavery and islam and how it is acceptable under sharia law.

as for the six principles of sharia law do christians not have the ten commandments?

and if the host country is predominantly christian then should not the guests respect that sharia law is not recognised in that same host country?

vlad dracul
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 96
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Posted: 2/13/2011 11:43:23 AM
no thats true in the middle ages muslims only visited europe to capture slaves.

who are you and your co religionists to tell women in the host country what to wear and not to wear?

if you dont like what our women choose to wear then head back to the homelands and the dark ages


vlad dracul
 gardenias2
Joined: 1/13/2011
Msg: 97
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/13/2011 11:49:15 AM
vlad dracul,
what you are writing makes perfect logical sense. it's productive and you obviously care about the well being of your country and all it's inhabitants. however most of the religious and especially the muslims don't rationalize from a logical or fair standpoint. most dogma reads like a bad fairy tale. sharia law is as non-sensical as alice in wonderland. and for some god-forsaken reason they don't understand that god didn't write the koran, humans with agendas of their time and place picked up pens or rocks and scratched out the words.

so strange......projecting super human attributes to those authors. most of whom wrote from fear of death by the ruling party to support their regimes.....rulers afraid of losing power is the basis of most current world religions. there's a ton of documented and authenicated information about the creation of the catholic church to reel in all the different practioners of christianity. apparently there were 26 different versions of the bible from metaphysical to fundamental. guess which copy the ruling party chose? fundamental of course. and if you didn't join the new and only church of rome your death was entertainment for the ruling class via the gladiators. even public rape before murder.

i haven't studied the origons of the muslim religion yet. i'll bet its full of jewels too like rationalizing slavery.

 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 98
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/13/2011 2:13:59 PM
so i am a liar?

the times online
From The Sunday Times
September 14, 2008
Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts
Abul Taher

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said he had taken advantage of a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996.

Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.

Siddiqi said: “We realised that under the Arbitration Act we can make rulings which can be enforced by county and high courts. The act allows disputes to be resolved using alternatives like tribunals. This method is called alternative dispute resolution, which for Muslims is what the sharia courts are.”

The disclosure that Muslim courts have legal powers in Britain comes seven months after Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, was pilloried for suggesting that the establishment of sharia in the future “seems unavoidable” in Britain.

In July, the head of the judiciary, the lord chief justice, Lord Phillips, further stoked controversy when he said that sharia could be used to settle marital and financial disputes.

In fact, Muslim tribunal courts started passing sharia judgments in August 2007. They have dealt with more than 100 cases that range from Muslim divorce and inheritance to nuisance neighbours.

It has also emerged that tribunal courts have settled six cases of domestic violence between married couples, working in tandem with the police investigations.

Siddiqi said he expected the courts to handle a greater number of “smaller” criminal cases in coming years as more Muslim clients approach them. “All we are doing is regulating community affairs in these cases,” said Siddiqi, chairman of the governing council of the tribunal.

Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.

Politicians and church leaders expressed concerns that this could mark the beginnings of a “parallel legal system” based on sharia for some British Muslims.

Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: “If it is true that these tribunals are passing binding decisions in the areas of family and criminal law, I would like to know which courts are enforcing them because I would consider such action unlawful. British law is absolute and must remain so.”

Douglas Murray, the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, said: “I think it’s appalling. I don’t think arbitration that is done by sharia should ever be endorsed or enforced by the British state.”

There are concerns that women who agree to go to tribunal courts are getting worse deals because Islamic law favours men.

Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between three daughters and two sons.

The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts.

In the six cases of domestic violence, Siddiqi said the judges ordered the husbands to take anger management classes and mentoring from community elders. There was no further punishment.

In each case, the women subsequently withdrew the complaints they had lodged with the police and the police stopped their investigations.

Siddiqi said that in the domestic violence cases, the advantage was that marriages were saved and couples given a second chance.

Inayat Bunglawala, assistant secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “The MCB supports these tribunals. If the Jewish courts are allowed to flourish, so must the sharia ones.”

Additional reporting: Helen Brooks

what 8 killers in the stephen lawrence case?
you mean the 5 accused who have been freed by every court they have appeared in over it?

and of course in your world there are no white victims?

do what everyone else does and google before you waffle.
do you remember the john stoner atrocity in bethnal green?

na doubt it. 17 year old white lad chibbed by? oh who would it be now? why adherants of the religion of peace.
big cover up, no it wasnt racial whined the school and the police.

yes it was and i was proud to be at the demo organised by the lads grandad down the roman road.

so i will await your apology. or na maybe not i might just go for a pork rib and beer combo.

vlad dracul
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 99
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/13/2011 9:13:12 PM

so i am a liar?

Pretty much, dude... An obfuscater at the very least...

It ain't (at least according to the source you posted) Sharia law fer f*cks sake...

It's Sharia ARBITRATION...

Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.

Just like Beth Din arbitration...

Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.

Or any other form of binding civil arbitration... like labour arbitration for example...

But it ain't "practicing Sharia law"...
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 100
view profile
History
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/13/2011 10:25:02 PM

Just like Beth Din arbitration


I wouldn't say Sharia and Beth Din are at all the same in England. Sharia is much more disadvantageous, if not completely discriminatory to women whereas Beth Din courts have realized this potential within their own laws and have amended them accordingly. No such luck for muslim women.


Under sharia's civil code, a woman's testimony is worth half of a man's. A man can divorce his wife by repudiation, whereas a woman must give justifications, some of which are difficult to prove. Child custody reverts to the father at a preset age; women who remarry lose custody of their children even before then; and sons inherit twice the share of daughters


This is another place where the cultural disconnect in England shows quite obviously. Religious courts do not have to abide by British law but their rulings do have to be "reasonable" according to the British Arbitration Act. The above Sharia "codes" are in no way reasonable and thus can't be included in any kind of British legal enforcement. So, you're going to get conflict between people who suggest Sharia courts are just ticketty boo and people who correctly believe they create a parallel legal system. This is why Canada has amended its Arbitration Act to exclude any and all religious courts.

Suggesting Sharia court rulings are voluntary for women is equally inaccurate because it is important for muslim women to be divorced religiously. They essentially have no choice but to go through Sharia law. Beth Din courts will grant religious divorces based entirely on civil court rulings. So you don't even have to go through a Beth Din court hearing to get a religious divorce. It's automatic. The only way to get a religious divorce if you're muslim is to go through the Sharia system which, unlike Beth Din courts, is precided over by imams who are appointed and who have no monitoring or guidance like Beth Din courts do. Scary scenario.

These two systems are not the same. One's fair. One isn't. Beth Din has been around for a hundred years and fits seemlessly into British cultural expectations. Sharia, not so. And neither is even close to labour arbitration.
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