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 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 126
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islamization of london englandPage 6 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
i like this thread. its fascinating to see all the different responses but most importantly because the muslim religion is spawning off too many extremists that ARE a current world threat. many religions are fundamentally and potentially dangerous as history has repeatedly and blantantly shown us, they just get too carried away with themselves, its the nature of the beast. and once again she raises her ugly head and we are seeing that danger NOW. tell your azz kissing politicians that sharia law/arbitration is not ever acceptable and needs to be stompted out permanently. i would look terrible in a burqa, not to mention hot and sweaty.



Current world terrorist groups

current List of Designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations
Foreign Terrorist Organizations

Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism

November 24, 2010

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) are foreign organizations that are designated by the Secretary of State in accordance with section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), as amended. FTO designations play a critical role in our fight against terrorism and are an effective means of curtailing support for terrorist activities and pressuring groups to get out of the terrorism business.



Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMS)
Al-Shabaab
Ansar al-Islam (AAI)
Asbat al-Ansar
Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army (CPP/NPA)
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group)
HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)
Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
Hizballah (Party of God)
Islamic Jihad Union (IJU)
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed)
Jemaah Islamiya organization (JI)
Kahane Chai (Kach)
Kata'ib Hizballah (KH)
Kongra-Gel (KGK, formerly Kurdistan Workers' Party, PKK, KADEK)
Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous)
Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)
Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (GICM)
Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)
National Liberation Army (ELN)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
al-Qaida in Iraq (AQI)
al-Qa’ida (AQ)
al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (formerly GSPC)
Real IRA (RIRA)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
Revolutionary Organization 17 November (17N)
Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Revolutionary Struggle (RS)
Shining Path (Sendero Luminoso, SL)
United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)
Harakat-ul Jihad Islami (HUJI)
Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)
Jundallah

As you see it is not only extremist Muslim fundamentalists.

it's interesting how so many want to be in denial of this and have such a hard time living and responding to the current moment in time. yes it is much easier to think it will never happen to you or your family however history tells us quite differently. the tragedy of bosnia is a great example close to home, most did not see it coming.


Denial that out of 1.3 billion Muslims on the planet their are perhaps a few thousand who are extremists no I'm not in denial.I just don't accept the lunacy that all Muslims are terrorists.

As for using bosnia as an example
Bosnian Genocide April 1992, the government of the Yugoslav republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina declared its independence from Yugoslavia. Over the next several years, Bosnian Serb forces, with the backing of the Serb-dominated Yugoslav army, targeted both Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) and Croatian civilians for atrocious crimes resulting in the deaths of some 100,000 people (80 percent Bosniak) by 1995. It was the worst act of genocide since the Nazi regime's destruction of some 6 million European Jews during World War II.

Struggle for Control in Bosnia
Far from seeking independence for Bosnia, Bosnian Serbs wanted to be part of a dominant Serbian state in the Balkans--the "Greater Serbia" that Serbian separatists had long envisioned. In early May 1992, two days after the United States and the European Community (precursor to the European Union) recognized Bosnia's independence, Bosnian Serb forces with the backing of Milosevic and the Serb-dominated Yugoslav army launched their offensive with a bombardment of Bosnia's capital, Sarajevo. They attacked Bosniak-dominated town in eastern Bosnia, including Zvornik, Foca, and Visegrad, forcibly expelling Bosniak civilians from the region in a brutal process that later was identified as "ethnic cleansing." (Ethnic cleansing differs from genocide in that its primary goal is the expulsion of a group of people from a geographical area and not the actual physical destruction of that group, even though the same methods--including murder, rape, torture and forcible displacement--may be used.)

 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 127
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/28/2011 3:52:43 AM
Here's a map of terrorist organizations in the US. As you can see, the vast majority of of white eurotrash extraction.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map#null

And to really juice the fearful fish of the Fear Industrial Complex...the mother of all conspiracy theories...Fun stuff.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/obamas-secret-muslim-plot
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 128
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/28/2011 5:27:56 AM

out of 1.3 billion Muslims on the planet their are perhaps a few thousand who are extremists


If you really believe it is only a few thousand...then I believe you are in serious denial.
Out of the entire mideast and far east you think only a few thousand???? Get real.

I'm not concerned about American Muslims. ( I have to agree that the right wing extremists worry me quite a bit.) I'm concerned about how open our borders are to militants.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 129
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/28/2011 10:06:46 AM
Say what you will, there are many, many Muslims who feel the same way as these alleged "extremists" ...you act as if millions and millions of Muslims disagree with the actions of these Terrorists, and have yet to offer any proof that they do not condone or support their actions...If this was not the case you would be able to offer Millions of examples of these alleged peaceful Muslims speaking out against the actions of these "Few"? ....


U.S. MUSLIM RELIGIOUS COUNCIL ISSUES FATWA AGAINST TERRORISM

The Fiqh Council of North America wishes to reaffirm Islam’s absolute condemnation of terrorism and religious extremism.

Islam strictly condemns religious extremism and the use of violence against innocent lives.

There is no justification in Islam for extremism or terrorism. Targeting civilians’ life and property through suicide bombings or any other method of attack is Haram – or forbidden – and those who commit these barbaric acts are criminals, not “martyrs.”

the light of the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah we clearly and strongly state:

1. All acts of terrorism targeting civilians are Haram (forbidden) in Islam.

2. It is Haram for a Muslim to cooperate with any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence.

3. It is the civic and religious duty of Muslims to cooperate with law enforcement authorities to protect the lives of all civilians.

We issue this fatwa following the guidance of our scripture, the Quran, and the teachings of our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). We urge all people to resolve all conflicts in just and peaceful manners.

We pray for the defeat of extremism and terrorism. We pray for the safety and security of our country, the United States, and its people. We pray for the safety and security of all inhabitants of our planet. We pray that interfaith harmony and cooperation prevail both in the United States and all around the globe.

Ameen,Summa Ameen

JazakAllah Khair for reading,


This page focuses on condemnations of the 9/11 terrorist attacks and other terrorist incidents since then as well as of terrorism in general. It is not a complete listing of all condemnations written or spoken by Muslims but is intended to provide a representative sample.

It has often been claimed in the media that Muslims are "silent" and do not condemn terrorism. This page is intended to refute that claim. Muslims have not been silent. Not even close. See also How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11 for more information about the Muslim response to 9/11. And another listing is at Statements Against Terror. Also Muslim Voices Against Terrorism. Related commentary at Friedman Wrong About Muslims Again , by Juan Cole and The Myth of Muslim Condemnation of Terror by Ali Eteraz.

Muslim Leaders

A Message from the Council on American-Islamic Relations

American Muslim Leaders Condemn Attacks

American Muslims Denouncing Terrorism

American Muslims and Scholars Denounce Terrorism on Anniversary of 9/11

Australian Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attack

Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say

Bin Laden's Idea of 'Jihad' is Out of Bounds, Islamic Scholars Say

British Muslim leaders condemn terrorism

British Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Canadian Muslims Condemn Terorist Attacks

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders

Islamic World Deplores U.S. Losses

Looking for Answers in Islam's Holy Book: What Islamic Scholars Have to Say

Muslim Reactions to Sept 11

Muslim Voices Against Extremism & Terrorism – Part II – Statements by Organizations

Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S.

Muslim rulers condemn WTC attacks

New Zealand Muslims Condemn Terrorism

Organization of the Islamic Conference Foreign Ministers Condemn International Terrorism

Quran a Book of Peace Not War, Islamic Scholars Say

Scholars of Islam Condemn Terrorism

Some American Muslims Take a Look at Their Communities' Shortcomings

U.S. Muslim Scholars Condemn Attacks

UK Muslim Leaders Condemn 'Lunatic Fringe'

When is jihad OK? Muslim Perspectives



Specific Muslim Scholars

A Common Word Between Us and You, by 130 Islamic scholars

Attacks on Civilians: Forbidden by Islam, by Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi

Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah of Lebanon condemns Osama Bin Laden, by Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah

Bin Laden's Violence is a Heresy Against Islam, by AbdulHakim Murad (Tim Winter)

Defending the Civilians (a fatwa against terrorism), by Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti

Expert Says Islam Prohibits Violence Against Innocents, by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf

Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar Condemns Suicide Bombings, by Shaykh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi

High Mufti of Russian Muslims calls for Extradition of Bin Laden, by Russian Muslim leaders

Iran's Supreme Leader Condemns Attacks on U.S., by Ayatollah Ali Khamanei

Islam and the Question of Violence, by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Iranian scholar

Jihad and the Modern World, by Dr. Sherman Jackson

Jihad: Its True Meaning and Purpose, by Muzammil H. Siddiqui

Most Prominent Sunni Muslim Scholar Condemns Killing of Civilians, by Shaykh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University

Muslim Attitudes about Violence, by Shaykh Muhammad al-Munajjid

Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism – Part I – Fatwas, by various scholars

Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism – Part IV A few Quotes, by various scholars

On the Terrorist Attacks, by Imam Zaid Shakir

Prominent Pakistani Cleric Tahir ul Qadri condemns Bin Laden, by Tahir ul Qadri

Reclaiming Islam from the Terrorists, by AbdulHakim Murad, British scholar

Reflections on the National Horror of September 11, 2001, by Muzammil H. Siddiqui

Refutation of Bin Laden's Defense of Terrorism, by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani scholar

Response to a Question about Islam and Terrorism, by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani scholar

Saudi Clerics Condemn Terrorism, by Sheikh Abderrahman al-Sudayes

Saudi Grand Mufti Condemns Terrorist Attacks in U.S., by Shaikh Abdulaziz Al-Ashaikh

Scholars' Statements Regarding The Attacks In The United States, by Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Aali-Shaykh, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and President of the Committee of Senior Scholars, and Shaykh Saleh Al-Lehaydaan, Chief Justice Of The Saudi Arabian Judiciary, and Shaykh Dr. Saaleh Ibn Ghaanem As-Sadlaan, Pres. Higher Studies Dept. Al-Imaam Muhammd Ibn Saud Islamic University

Spanish Muslim Clerical authorities Issue Fatwa against Osamah Bin Laden, by Spanish Muslim leaders

Terrorism Is at Odds With Islamic Tradition, by Khaled Abou El Fadl

Terrorism: Not a doorway to heaven, by Jamil Abdul Razzak Hajoo, of Idriss Mosque, Seattle

The Myth of Islamic Terrorism Exploded, by Shaykh Abdul Azeez bin Abdullah bin Baaz and Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saalih al Uthaymeen

The worst enemies of Islam are from within, by Hamza Yusuf

Top Saudi Cleric Says Attacks on U.S. a Terrible Crime in Islam, by Shaykh Salah al-Lahidan, head of the Islamic Judiciary of Saudi Arabia

Violence Against Innocents Violates Islamic Law, by Imam Siraj Wahhaj

What is jihad? What is terrorism?, by Statement by Muslim scholars
 jsphn11
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 130
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/28/2011 10:18:45 AM
re. messege 196


Or are you that simple to think the actions of this person reflect the actions of an entire group of people?


No, I am not simple. I hear about too many of this type of persons. Who knows what’s behind those angelic dark eyes of a young stranger? Is he just a regular student, or is he planting a bomb? I was in the air on my way to Rome when 9-11 disaster happened. I found out about it when I got to a hotel. I was on vacation in London in 2007. Guess what… One morning just a few minutes from my hotel the police found 2 cars with bombs. One was on Trafalgar Square, another one on Piccadilly Square. One of the Islamic extremist groups took responsibility. Very unpleasant experiences…


If so then we know for a fact that history shows us that the christians loved killing people and take a look over to the west bank and we see those jews love doing it too.

Sure, if you look at the history of Spanish Inquisition, it was horrible. However, it’s in the past and is not happening now. And in regards to the West Bank situation…. Well, Arabs like killing Jews way more than the other way around. If Palestinians put down their weapons, they would get their state. If Israelis put down their weapons they would get killed.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 131
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/1/2011 8:32:34 AM
cheers Booyahhh my infidel friend. may your days be free of intlib interference.

i may not live in oxford which is closer to london than edinburgh is apparently, but even thick building trade twats like me can get annoyed about things.

anyway for non uk viewers two wee snippets that i found at the weekend

searchlight, the anti fascist, anti racist magazine held a poll recently. now this has been quoted by all the msm in the uk and mp's are all beating themselves up because it doent read as they would like.

although it is about immigration in the main the interesting finding was that 52% of all polled found that muslims create problems in the uk.

so just over 30 million feel like me. oh dear all us thickos who if only we would listen to the intlibs and fascist left would not need to be re educated in the multi culti orgasm fest.

the next wee snippet is a beezer our previous pm the slimy rodent tony blair has a sister in law called lauren booth. she converted to islam. in a rally attended by an estimated 10,000 young muslim males she went on an anti israel rant. a big anti israeli rant.

then taking a cue from that other half wit bonio who used to phone bill 'i never had sex with that woman' clinton she told the crowd she had blairs number and apparently phoned his office and left a message as the crowd shouted.

funnily enough i never seen this story in the msm . totally ignored.

but from what i see the leader of the bnp has made a complaint to the police

its on youtube under the heading

the uk march the bbc didnt let you see

have a lovely day my infidel mates

vlad dracul
 sexyisback!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 132
islamization of london england
Posted: 3/1/2011 10:48:24 AM

So, a government building was blown up by a christian in Oklahoma., does that mean we should fear all christians?


well I do in a way, not so much fear of bombs but more of how so many of them would like to restrict freedom of expression, civil liberties, etc.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 133
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Posted: 3/1/2011 4:23:42 PM

but more of how so many of them would like to restrict freedom of expression, civil liberties, etc.


I don't know just which civil liberties you think these people want to restrict, but I don't see any reason to be afraid of them. Let them want whatever they like.

And if they're in the majority in a state, and the thing they want to make the rule doesn't violate anything in the Constitution, let them make it that state's law. Those who don't like it can work to change the law, or if they can't, move to another state.

At least in the U.S., the Constitution protects our civil liberties--including freedom of speech--from being infringed too far by the federal government. And through the 14th Amendment, it also protects almost all these liberties from being infringed too far by state laws.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 134
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Posted: 3/2/2011 5:39:13 AM
Apparently, the US state in which I preside, is on track to re-write the US constitution to outlaw Muslims in Tennessee.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/02/tennessee-considers-bill-following-shariah-felony_n_830101.html
These would be some pretty devious principles were they not already embedded in our Constitution and also found in the Christian Babble.
Here they are, the six principles of shariah:

1. The right to the protection of life.

2. The right to the protection of family.

3. The right to the protection of education.

4. The right to the protection of religion.

5. The right to the protection of property (access to resources).

6. The right to the protection of human dignity.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 135
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Posted: 3/2/2011 6:27:58 AM

There is a difference between "supporting the Islamization of England" and disagreeing with whether that is actually happening


I'm not sure you could really say that islamization isn't happening. It's obviously happening but to what degree and to what end? Is it a bad thing? Is it a large concern or a small minor thing? But it's definitely happening to some extent. 80 out of 85 Sharia courts operate without any control. As with Sharia law, muslim faith based schools in the Uk are also operating outside of normal school guidelines...


There are 126 full-time Muslim schools in England, according to the Department for Education and Skills. The vast majority (115) are independent. Just eight Muslim schools are state-funded and another three have been approved to open in the state sector


If your school is privately funded, you don't have to adhere to all curriculum standards. Nor do you have to abide by admission standards. While not a legal standard, christian faith based schools makes regular commitments to have at least 25% of their students come from non christian families. There is also no requirement for teachers to be christian except in religious classes. This is actually a mandate for any new christian school as dictated by the Arch Bishop. The opposite seems true for many islamic based schools...


Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teahers as role models during their development period. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school


That was from the London School of Islamics, one of the first and largest state funded islamic schools for children 5-16. No non muslim kids should be allowed. And this is a state funded school ideology.


In November 2007, the Jewish Free School in north London was found guilty of discrimination for giving preference to children who were born to Jewish mothers


In most islamic faith based schools in the UK up to and including the muslim school of Cambridge university, criteria is based not only on your faith in islam but your family history of faith and generational aptitude in islam. Basically you can't do the three week course in islamic studies just to get into an islamic school. You have to have a "sincere history" of islamic faith. Kind of like islamic blood. Kind of like what the jewish school got busted for.

More from the London School of Islamics web site....


The pupils are not exposed to the pressures of racism, multiculturalism and bullying


So multiculturalism is a bad thing? I thought it was supposed to be a good thing. Seperation is encouraged, not discouraged. That's islamization.

Iftikar Ahmad of the London School of Islamics...


There is no end to Forced marriages and honour killings as long as Muslim girls keep on attending state schools with notoriously monolingul non-Muslim teachers


No choice but to have forced marriages and honor killings if you don't go to an all muslim all the time school? Awesome.

I'm all for seperate religious schools and seperate religious legal systems but not at the expense of existing UK curriculum requirements and legal standards. Do your thing, but follow the guidelines of the country in which you're doing it.


Here they are, the six principles of shariah:

1. The right to the protection of life.

2. The right to the protection of family.

3. The right to the protection of education.

4. The right to the protection of religion.

5. The right to the protection of property (access to resources).

6. The right to the protection of human dignity


I'd chalk the above quote up to being naive once. But to go there twice in the same thread? Do you know how many ways I can interpret anyone of those 6 broad generalizations about islamic law? Are you seriously defending the right of Sharia law to stone homosexuals and adultresses? Are you seriously suggesting girls should be kept out of school in order to "protect the family"? Go back to the Islamic Council of Great Britain web site where I've already quoted some of the crazier fatwas and have a really good look for yourself at what moderate islamic law mandates in western society. It is in reality none of the above six philosophical ideals. You really need to wise up before giving anyone carte blanche to protect "human dignity".
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 136
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/2/2011 6:02:49 PM

Few facts:

1). It took a Muslim country to select a woman as their leader. Not just one country, but two Muslim country that have plenty of the conservative Muslim population. They are Pakistan and Turkey. I wonder what would take USA, England or any other so called free country to elect a woman as the prime minister.


Cool. Now, can you pick a muslim country that elected a woman prime minister and then DIDN'T assassinate her? Also, Margret Thatcher lead Great Britain for a long time and well before Bhutto. Golda Meir was Prime Minister of Israel for a term at least. Canada even had a female prime minister for a short while. You weren't educated in a muslim school, were you?


2). No one is against education. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO STRESS THIS FACT IN THIS THREAD?


Yes you absolutely are, though. If a safe muslim education can't be provided, you have to keep 'em illiterate. You said so yourself. In the context of this thread, it seems some muslim religious schools in the UK have exactly the same philosophy. They do not promote a well rounded education that is condusive to living in and among western society. The goal of muslim education is to keep students seperated and along the path of "we're different and we're going to stay that way". We have a similar problem in Canada; specifically in Quebec where education is conducted in certain schools only in french. Some kids in Quebec grow up not speaking any English and thinking they're from a different country and it's hugely disadvantageous. I've taught ESL to them in Calgary. It's a travesty. It seems like the same is true in some private muslim schools in the UK where western curriculae is ignored and in some cases contradicted. This doesn't promote multiculturalism and is not "education" in the best sense of the word. I know that some state funded muslim schools in Endland to work towards a goal of educating kids to live in a western society along with teaching traditional islamic values. That's fabulous. But not all do and there is no way of mandating that they do.


Need another example?


Hell no. I have no idea what the first example was for.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 137
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/3/2011 6:53:17 AM

So much ignorance. Just because a group of people want to do the things different way, you call them extremists and backwards. No tolerance. No room for understand and the context? It must has to be the western way


You have provided possibly the best examples of the dangers of a muslim religious education in this thread. In reality, muslims absolutely have their own share of crusades and invasions throughout history. Europe, Africa, Asia. You can't possibly suggest that the arab world has peaceably enforced its influence over time. It's just total ignorance. At the very least you are going to have to blow up the Al Hambra to cover your tracks.


Iran still has a sizeable jewish population. If the government of Iran wants, they could kick all the jews out of Iran. They have nothing to lose. The Mullahs of Iran can orchestrate other Idhi Amin of Uganda act. They are already hated. So a little more hate would not do harm to them.


Since the return of the shaw to Iran, the jewish population has gone from 150k to 15-30k. Jews live under strict regulations, are prevented from holding certain jobs, living in certain areas, worshipping openly, traveling freely and having any connection with Isreal. And wtf does "a little more hate would do them no harm" mean? Your "education" and opinion on Iran and their gracious acceptance of anything haram is pathetic. If anything, Iran is a shining example of intolerance in the muslim world and is something you should all be ashamed of. If the west treated muslims like that we'd be blown out of the water and rightly so. I have no doubt that the truly educated population in Iran doesn't agree with you.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 138
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Posted: 3/3/2011 1:21:58 PM
And speaking of Iranian Jews, they are still living in Iran with whatever liberties they are given with. Its not like Iranian Mullahs are asking them to get out like Idhi Amin asked Indians to get out Uganda. or like spaniards asked muslims and jews to get out


I'm not arguing with you, modestmouse. Especially about your weird concept of history. That has nothing to do with anything. I'm just sharing information with you that they didn't teach you in muslim school. 95% of the jews in Iran have left. There are as of 2006 only 10,600 jews left in Iran. What does that tell you? A country doesn't lose 95% of its population for no reason. In short, you should seriously be ashamed to site Iran as a champion of human rights in the muslim world.

Here's a smaller, more understandable example for you that related to the topic of islamization in the UK. In the Uk, state funded muslim schools are allowed to operate as they please with the condition that they accomplish a standardized curriculum that all British students must fullfill. There are no boundaries given as far as language, religious classes or content of those classes. There are no requirements for mixing different religious students together. The private schools are not even bound as much to this curriculum as the state funded schools. Sadly, this means that muslim students are mostly segregated from the rest of the population.

In Iran, your shining example of muslim tolerance, jews aren't even allowed to conduct classes in Hebrew. As well, they are only permitted to admit jewish students. They are not allowed to mingle with persian culture in the slightest.


The Islamic government appoints the officials who run Jewish schools, most of these being Muslims and requires that those schools must open on Saturdays, the Jewish Sabbath


Before the strict islamic state took over, schools in Iran were purposely mixed so that jews and persian/muslims could understand each other. This created a fairly positive environment that the shaw flushed down the toilet.

The same thing is happening in England where muslim schools are trying to purposely segregate themselves from british society. So when you ask...



You guys try too hard to force them to act like British, Dutch, and French. If you guys think those guys will never give up their own unique customs, you guys should not let them enter at the first place?


It's not that anyone is trying to force muslims to be like Europeans and change their cultural habits. But what is being asked is that muslims do not isolate themselves in western society because that breeds misunderstanding, intolerance and hatred. That should not happen here. You should have to watch all those damned American teenagers hugging, all those gay men holding hands and all those cursed jews taking saturday off to worship. Your kids should go to school with christians and jews and speak as many languages as possible. You have to tolerate, if not fully accept, all that stuff if you want to live here. You can still do your thing, but you have to accept western standards of education, legal protocol and some social norms. If not, you're correct. We should not let you enter in the first place.
 sabbycat251
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 139
islamization of london england
Posted: 3/3/2011 10:07:21 PM
THX for replying M. Glad you cleared that up . :)
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 140
islamization of london england
Posted: 3/4/2011 5:36:26 AM
Apparently, the US state in which I preside, is on track to re-write the US constitution to outlaw Muslims in Tennessee. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/02/tennessee-considers-bill-following-shariah-felony_n_830101.html


That's not how I comprehend your link.

"Tennessee is considering making it a felony to follow some versions of the Islamic code known as Shariah"
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 141
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/4/2011 10:35:47 AM
i read that huffington post thing.

so SOME versions of sharia law would be banned.

not the banning of muslims as earthpuppy made out.

your veering very close to the generalisations that you accuse me off mate.

if the state of tennessee stops women from wearing blankets with post boxes cut for the eyes then well done tennessee.

and if federal and state laws have seen the people of tennessee alright for years why do the people of tennessee have to have alien laws brought into their lives?

should not the newcomer embrace the laws of the host country?

maybe not in earthpuppys world but in mine i think they should at least make the effort.

and as a wee aside earthpuppy why is your demagogue 'big brother' hilary trying to involve your countrymen, and also drag mine into a war with iran?

just a question mate no malice intended


vlad dracul
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 142
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/4/2011 1:05:32 PM
sorry saharam

ill go and hang my head and stand in the naughty corner for not being as intelligent as the rest of you.


again

sorry


vlad dracul.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 143
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/5/2011 4:32:48 AM
saharam

aye im sorry about that it was petty. my only defence is 'have you seen some of the patronising replies to my posts? thats why i get sarcastic sometimes, that and too much drinking on an empty head.

i apologise.

what i should have said was that I know what im trying to say it just does not come out very well.

what change are we talking about though? is it change for the people of tennessee as a whole? nope its change for only muslims. why should the people of tennessee have additional laws just for one section of society?

does it mean any minority religion or even people with no religion can then demand to have their version of laws introduced?

i wouldnt hold my breath. laws in the uk change to pander to minority groups/religions never for the general population. everyone gets 'human rights' except it seems the majority who get arrested and/or jailed for objecting.

an interesting case from years ago was when robert relf. he was jailed for trying to sell his house to 'an english family only'. race laws you see? although when asked 'are you trying to say blacks and asians are not english?' the authoritys side stepped that question.

he was also jailed for refusing to wear a crash helmet, as sikhs did not have to. now robert relf was/is a rascist and has never hid that fact. but the state would not tolerate any dissent. and the same thing happens now with even more draconian punishments.

i just feel that the majority in the uk are being railroaded by the unelected eu intlibs who will not tolerate dissent.

and it bothers me. and millions like me. we are going to see much much trouble on the streets in the uk. the 'tommy atkins' of this country are getting mightily pissed off.


vlad dracul
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 144
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/5/2011 6:28:37 AM
Tennessee is comprised of a dominance of people of English/Scots/Irish ancestry. Thus it would seem that the similarities between the UK and here would be seen in legislative agendas. I don't know of any such similarity in the UK or London of having a dominant majority pushing for a state Theocracy, a state religion as we are seeing here by the same ones opposing Mosque construction. School sanctioned prayer events are being promoted as challenges to the Supreme Court and the constitution, as well as attempts to place the 10 Commandments in all public institutions, bible courses in public schools, mandatory teaching of christian creation mythology and politicians who want to take it further. My recently former congressional rep. ran for the Governorship and thankfully lost to someone sleazier, but non-theocratic that we know of. Zack Wamp of the C Street Theocrats fame, said when running for governor,
“We are a Godly state, a state after God’s own heart. What Sonny Perdue has done down in Georgia, we can do in Tennessee. We’re not going to run from the Lord, we’re going to run to him as a people, as a state, and we’ll be blessed for it.”

Not sure how the Mormons and Adventists will fare should a Baptist Theocracy be established one day. For all the fear of Shariah Principles, these folks have no fear of what a christian Theocracy would look like and threaten the majority of the populace with harsh olde testament punishments for consensual acts. Our Dominionists and Reconstructionists DO have a pronounced agenda to not only take over the US with Theocratic law, but to impose it on the rest of the world using the world's largest, and most deadly arsenel at their disposal. The whole "Islam/Shariah" distraction is just that. A distraction while the very real and deadly fanatics in our midst that look like us, work in the background to fundamentally change our nations and the world.

Any movement like this in the UK Vlad?
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 145
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/5/2011 6:32:38 PM

Tennessee is comprised of a dominance of people of English/Scots/Irish ancestry. Thus it would seem that the similarities between the UK and here would be seen in legislative agendas.


Good god that's a stretch.


I don't know of any such similarity in the UK or London of having a dominant majority pushing for a state Theocracy


The Church of England maybe. Sheesh. They make up laws all the time. Someone has to when you have a coalition government.


For all the fear of Shariah Principles, these folks have no fear of what a christian Theocracy would look like and threaten the majority of the populace with harsh olde testament punishments for consensual acts


I just don't get you, earthpuppy. Your sensationalist headlines about Tennessee banning muslims is the exact kind of nonsensical drooling you'd see on Fox news, an establishment you profess to despise. You fear christians taking over and enforcing their beliefs on you, but you're more than willing to allow and in fact encourage negative aspects of islam to wander down the same road in the UK. You're an inigma, inside of a puzzle, surrounded by a mystery. A Rubic's Cube of contradiction with little arrows drawn on all the green squares to try to make it easy.

Canada voted against sharia law in 2005 yet it is clearly not illegal to be muslim here..
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/13/2011 7:30:27 AM
well i think that the fact that laws are introduced to stifle free speech in the uk and europe as a whole are enough proof.

if we had free speech why the need to introduce race/religious laws to prevent discussion? why not just defeat peoples views with discussion rather than hastily brought in laws?

oh there are millions like me mate.

and the lawn one lol

well i would let anyone in my garden who means me and mine no harm. i would even allow you into my garden also earhpuppy and the person whos name escapes me but lives in oxford which is closer to london so they should know better than me.

as long as everyone knew that i have rules which to abide by if in my garden.

and if i visited their garden then i know i would also have to live by their rules.

if in my garden people do not like those rules? then piss off. cheerio. bye bye

and if i dont like what goes on in their garden then i shall also piss off.

but i feel that someone like you would not be happy with how things are in my garden. you would want wee changes, minor but still change.

na it wouldnt happen, no way pedro. or as we would say in edinburgh bolt ya radge.

if you go to or are invited into someone elses garden respect THEIR rules. dont try and change them. all you achieve doing that is pissing people off.

anyway me and yourself would never agree on much. im not bound by christian guilt or afflicted by liberalism so i would say what i think.

tolerance works two ways. its not always just the host that has to show it.

anyway this auld (add your own insult) is not that oppressed as he is away for a pint and to watch scotland v england at the rugby.

have a nice day

the infidel

vlad dracul
 sexyisback!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 147
islamization of london england
Posted: 3/19/2011 8:58:16 AM
^^^

yes, did you miss THIS paragraph in the story..intentionally..? or on purpose? (yo make your point)

"Police said Thomas, who is the executor and sole beneficiary of Seidman's will, returned to the apartment and pretended that he had just discovered Seidman's body."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/18/philly-cops-elderly-man-stoned-death-allegedly-making-unwanted-sexual-advances/#ixzz1H3rM3z7c "

hmmm, would appear that perhaps the age -old LOVE OF MONEY was the root of THIS evil? (killing the man who had named Thomas executor & sole beneficiary..)

wouldn't be a leap of logic to assume that Thomas & Seidman (the victim) were most likely homosexual lovers ,thus the reason the elder man would name the younger his sole beneficiary (rather unusual, a non-relative)

come on FrankNStein you can do a little better than THAT can't you? simply because a greedy younger homosexual lover killed the older man for money, then CLAIMED it was all about religion, you take that at face value?

besides even the occasional oddball nutjob making such claims in western society is SLIGHTLY different that institutionalized Islamic law enforced by the state as it is in many countries (e.g the gov. of Iran regularly having people stoned to death for 'crimes' against Islamic law..
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 148
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/19/2011 9:16:44 AM
Isolationism worked in the enormous world of centuries past. But when the world got smaller Nationalism became an engine of morbid failure. When we seek to marginalize fellow citizens because a few thousand of their more than one billion "fellow" religous followers are hypocritical terrorists we shame ourselves with our own selctive reading of the historical record. They are people in the Western World killing innocent people in the name of Jesus Christ. There is an incredible central arrogance to Christianity just as their is in Islam. I will not condem all of Christianity because of its hypocrites.

When any of us cast ultimately political struggles over resources in deceitful religous lights they are promoting unsubstantiated hatred. You can make up all the inane rules for your garden that you want to OP, as a citizen of the free world you're not going to selectively dictate the rules of the community without a bonafide majority supporting you. Thankfully millions of us remeber what it means to be an actual Englishman or American; that whatever bad taste a few folks give us we're not about to impinge on the freedoms of millions because of the actions of an ultimately trivial few. We'll give those trivialities all the attention they deserve, but we will not dishonor the greatness of our Founders and other Magnificent Minds by endorsing unsubstantiated discrimination. My proverbial God, my own country was founded by predominantly well off citizens that didn't want to pay their taxes.

"Let FREEDOM ring!"

"Think! Its very Patriotic!"
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
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Posted: 3/26/2011 5:07:46 AM
oh dear saharaM it seems like a wee hissy fit.

i know all about difference of opinion. intlibs dont.

please dont put words in my mouth. i may not articulate it very well but i know what i mean.

you can express any views you wanted in my garden. doent mean i have to follow them or take them on board.

if you said anything which i found of interest then i would listen.

you can be as offensive as you like in my garden.
be honest now would you let ME express my views freely?
i think not. banning orders would be put in place.
we have a freedom to speak on this site. which does allow most views to be discussed and is not either of our gardens.

have a wee think about who you would ban from your garden.

if in doubt ban it.

yours from a sunny edinburgh

vlad dracul
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 150
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islamization of london england
Posted: 3/26/2011 8:46:42 AM
It seems we have an almost identical struggle over here, Vlad. It strikes me that the two struggles are near identical also, in how the people arguing about them misunderstand exactly the same sorts of things.
The equivalent over here to what you seem to be complaining about, are the folks who claim that "Political Correctness Police" in the form of "liberal Left-wingers" are trying to unfairly limit the lives of the MAJORITY in favor of various minority views. here, as I think I see in our arguments, there are the same things confused:

1. There certainly ARE people pushing for the minorities to be given special treatment that completely ignores the rights of the majority, HOWEVER, those are the loud fringe of the proponents of adjusting everyone's sensibilities, NOT the majority of them. So yes, you CAN find someone who says we should cater to every small group who wants to run all of life there own way. But to oppose the ENTIRE move to have us be civil to each other on the grounds that the nut jobs are so wrong, is nonsense.

2. Many cases are pointed to, almost INVARIABLY erroneously, as supporting the idea that we are already being forced to cater to some small religious group or another. When examined closely and factually however, it almost always turned out to be the case, that the people who STARTED complaining that the minority was being catered to, was a small group that HATED the minority, and wanted to have them crushed. As we have seen in this very thread, stories were bandied about with critical facts excluded, that made it APPEAR that the government was letting some small group run everyone else's lives, when it was nothing of the kind.
In the cases where it WASN'T a case of outright deception by the hate groups, it has turned out to be a complete, and innocent misunderstanding, either in the reporting, or by the government enforcement people, who when apprised of their error, backed off.

3. Often as not, the ones agitating for us to fear the encroachment of someone such as the "Islamists, " are themselves trying to either continue their belief that we already SECRETLY run our government on "Christian" principles, or they want to CHANGE us so that we do. They aren't, therefore, interested in affirming a non-religion-influenced government at all, because they DO want one, just not one influenced by THAT religion.

4. As here, the result of all the tumult isn't anything even APPROACHING a real solution. That's because no one has correctly identified a problem. Famous politicians of all stripes, are eagerly pouncing on the excitement, not to try to help, but to get elected to a position of power where they can pursue their OWN unrelated goals. This refusal on the part of our governors to show the basic courage and honesty required to address what's REALLY going on, increases the confusion and fear in the general populace, making more of us believe the nut cases who are shouting about it all.

Here, the best solution is to recognize that we HAVE a tool in place to deal with those who want religious concepts to change law: the idea of the separation of church and state. We just have to step up, and find detailed ways to get what we want IN the law, WITHOUT resorting to religious concepts of any source.
We will always have people being frustrated, and not getting what they want. Because we DO need Minority Rights, to protect ourselves, there will be times when the majority wont get what THEY want, no matter how sure they are that they should. When a minority succeeds in getting the majority to leave them alone, it might seem that we are catering to them.
Here we have argued over things like whether we can put the Ten Commandments on the local Government buildings and grounds. The folks who wanted them, insisted that it somehow WASN'T an infringement of separation of church and state, and WASN'T an imposition on those who weren't believers. That, or that they were in the Majority, and so they should get the government they wanted. They felt that THEY were being imposed upon by the minority, because the minority wouldn't let them have what they wanted. They too, claimed that "political correctness" and "Liberal left wingers" were running the government.
Now, we are beginning to learn that in some areas, the majority is becoming Hispanic and Catholic. The folks who wanted pure majority rule, and minority-put-up-or-shut-up, are now in THOSE areas, starting to sing a different tune.
I would suggest the same thing for your situation there, with concerns over Islamic stuff. If you establish a set of rules that protects EVERYONE from everyone else, including protecting them from you, you will be safe in the future, in case THEY become the majority.
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