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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > On Wisconsin.      Home login  
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 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 201
On Wisconsin.Page 9 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)

Like it or not the days of uber socialism is coming to a end in the US

It sure is and your middle class will not be far behind and people will get what the want where the advantaged stay advantaged and the poor stay just that way, but if you think the middle will not keep falling down the ladder like it has been you have no idea how an economy functions.


So, Congratulations voters of Wisconsin on shooting yourself in the foot and doing exactly what the Koch brothers wanted you to do and that is blame it on the poor people.

Proving once again you can be number one in America if you have a better marketing plan.
 balrog67
Joined: 4/1/2012
Msg: 202
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 11:12:30 AM

So now going to fund raisers is the same as honoring fallen heros, who gave ALL so that he could CHOOSE to ignore them?


Again, you have no clue whether he 'chose' to ignore them or not. The fact that he didn't fulfill a cliche by calling attention to himself and showing up at Arlington tells you absolutely nothing about his commitment to our soldiers. We all get to 'choose' how we show our respect - even our CIC.

Are you really stoopid enough to think that because a President goes to Arlington and says "Look at me! Look at me! I'm honoring the fallen! Take some pictures!!" - that this really means anything? Give me a break.

For all you know the President decided to visit individual soldiers or sent letters to mothers - all without feeling the need to make it a media event.

Kings post was just his was of sticking out his tongue at the President, while wrapping himself in the flag. As I Vietnam Vet, I find that pretty childish, and offensive.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 203
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 11:29:43 AM

It sure is and your middle class will not be far behind and people will get what the want where the advantaged stay advantaged and the poor stay just that way, but if you think the middle will not keep falling down the ladder like it has been you have no idea how an economy functions.


Go back and see when the middle class came about. It was when business' flourished the people had jobs.

The middle class is not a product of government socialism it is a product of having a healthy economy.

The 2010 elections and now the Wisconsin elections have shown that people do know how a economy functions.

Even Californians voted last night to modify the pensions of workers so it is at least a sustainable endeavor.

Here read about it yourself.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/06/06/2863184/2-california-cities-voters-embrace.html#storylink=mirelated


By nobama ramming socialism down our throats has woke up the American people. We don't need the government to take care of us.

We just need them to allow us to make our own way. For business to have a chance to make jobs. We want to work not live on the government.


"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
-- Thomas Jefferson
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 204
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 12:19:19 PM

Yes, I get that. And you will surely mistake what is waste from what is not because it doesn't matter to you and you're ready to tear down anything that doesn't fit into the ideology you value.

The thing is, what you may call waste are still human beings. We owe it to them not to trash their lives, just as I'm sure you believe no one should trash yours without considering if you are a waste or not. Everyone wants fair and equal treatment, and people like you won't take any time to worry over it. Do this enough, and it just becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy...your community will be crud because more and more people will be homeless and in need of help.

You're not giving me any ideas that hasn't been cosnidered, and nothing you've provided so far is of much value.


So you claim cutting waste will cause our community to be crud......lets see if that is true.

This is from the Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303640104577440331413176116.html


Wisconsin's unemployment rate is 6.7%, which is well below the national average of 8.2%. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the state added more than 23,000 jobs last year. And a recent survey found that Wisconsin employers were eager to hireā€”an indication that Mr. Walker's policies have made the state more business-friendly. Mr. Walker also managed to close a $3.6. billion budget deficit without raising taxes, which fulfilled a campaign promise.


Sounds to me like cutting waste has improved the communities and the whole state.

The only drawback I see is that some people will have to get a real job and quit riding the tax payers for a living.

Which I don't see as a drawback.

In case nobama is reading this, I hear Two Men in a Truck are reasonable and do a good job you will need them on Nov 7TH 2012.

Also Thinking did you see the link about your home state trimming waste in the public pensions?

Here is the link.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/06/06/2863184/2-california-cities-voters-embrace.html#storylink=mirelated
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 205
view profile
History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 12:32:33 PM
most government worker I find are pretty much like the rest of society...they work and then go home to their families. They aren't millionaires, they maintain an honest living, more so than today's greedy rich who often haven't earned their way but mostly were just born into it, who you obviously have not problem with.


Of course they are not. The problem is their jobs existence and not them nor their willingness to work. The only one that creates jobs for no other purpose then to create jobs is the government. There is a need for government workers but using the need as a bubble to create jobs is self-defeating. They do not generate revenue. They cost more than they bring in.

Also, saying they are more honest than the greedy rich is a not true. What about the DMV workers selling ID's to drug lords? Not being a millionaire does not make your living more honest. It isn't a value judgment. It's a totally invalid statement to say that greedy rich don't earn their way and are mostly born into it. Do you have those statistics that show how most not making a court clerks salary don't work hard and add no value to the businesses that hired them?

Unions have a purpose. When that purpose is exceeded and it becomes over bearing their real purpose is obscured. But you already knew that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEwXa197uBU
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 206
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 1:00:05 PM

Well, if the non-unionized households that makes less than public employees consist of 90% of the population, logic dictates that they will enter the work force in that lower wage category, which means they will have less to spend in real money. Good job.


Logic dictates that the state and its people are better off since Mr. Walker became Governor. That is why they wanted to keep him. Also as more people are hired more people will have money to spend which in turn makes more jobs.

Now please explain how more people working and creating more jobs which is what Walker did a bad thing. Other than he cut out the socialist part.


Proving once again that the rich have you by the collars.....misery LOVES company.

Since Walker had his buddies fudge the employment numbers, we'll find the truth in the next few months when the real numbers, which has not been certified yet are released. Winsconsin already has new employment numbers that are much lower than it's neighbors, something I'm sure you won't be talking about. Time will tell.


Lets look at the unemployment rates of Wisconsin's neighbor's.

Michigan....8.5%

Minnesota...5.8% (note they have never had the out of control public unions)

Illinois......8.8%......nobama's home state....HUMMMMMM.

Iowa.......5.2% (again not runaway public unions)

Notice a pattern here greedy public unions hi unemployment.

Notice the rate for Wisconsin has dropped from 8.6% in 09 to 6.8% after Mr.Walker started his work.

That is a 2.2% drop In just 18 months!


Jeaulous? Sounds like your projection...I don't care if anyone's rich, why should I? They've already made it. What I care about is that 90% who can't even make it above the status of a Public Union Employee, who thinks the only way they can get ahead is not to make more than them, but to drag them down to their level...that's what you call jeaulousy.


Yes as we know how many socialist millionaires were produced out of the USSR!

Get real. Capitalism is the best way for some one one the bottom to get to the top. I did and my first job was a $3.10 a hour bag boy.

I am now semi-retired at 45 and have been for two years now. I done this on my own no pensions from anyone I paid mine 100% by myself.

If a person wants it bad enough and is WILLING to WORK for it they can do it also.

Any more cop-outs you want us to debunk?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 207
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 1:46:12 PM

Go back and see when the middle class came about. It was when business' flourished the people had jobs.

The middle class is not a product of government socialism it is a product of having a healthy economy.

...and the thing that for some reason people seem oblivious to, is while those business continued to flourish and keep making record profits they cut jobs thus reducing the number of tax payers and hurting the economy while getting to keep more and more of their profits.


So now thanks to Walker those business are getting rewarded even more yet are helping even less.

The idea that getting rid of good paying jobs with respect to helping the economy while at the same time giving incentives to the ones that are hurting it, is stupid at best.


It would be like running a business and you are seeing that you bottom line is no longer profitable, so you decide to cut production, slash prices for your biggest customer.

Epic fail at best.

Middle class workers are the fuel that the economy runs on, and people seem hell bent on getting rid of them thinking that they are the problem, all the time not noticing that there are some who are talking more and providing less, ironically these are the same people that are spending billions to convince everyone that it is the poor peoples fault.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 208
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 1:59:15 PM

So now thanks to Walker those business are getting rewarded even more yet are helping even less.

The idea that getting rid of good paying jobs with respect to helping the economy while at the same time giving incentives to the ones that are hurting it, is stupid at best.


So then why has unemployment went down since he took over?


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein


He did something different and it worked. The people liked it and kept him. Much to your chagrin.


Middle class workers are the fuel that the economy runs on, and people seem hell bent on getting rid of them thinking that they are the problem, all the time not noticing that there are some who are talking more and providing less, ironically these are the same people that are spending billions to convince everyone that it is the poor peoples fault.


Funny the jobs added in Wisconsin are middle class jobs.

So how does actually creating middle class job destroy the middle class?

Talk about epic fail!
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 209
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 2:04:36 PM

So then why has unemployment went down since he took over?

Because they cooked the books, which will all come out.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 210
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 2:05:53 PM

Why not quote where they were two years ago? A year ago? And measure the differences in the gains? We shall see about the real Wisconsin when the real numbers come out.


Please do quote them they show how as the public workers got greedier the rate went up. And the numbers to come are really going to cause you grief.

As Wisconsin business' are saying they are going to add even more jobs.

How about them California's cutting the pensions? Seems the even the most liberal state in the union is getting a clue.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 211
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 2:16:27 PM
I think the key difference last night came down to:

1. Massive levels of out of state funding. (but that money did not come from Hollywood elite, or dirty liberals who are thinking of people other than themselves, so its ok money)

2. Outright lies from Walker's people as he straight up lied about the WI budget, lied about the results of his efforts to date and lied about his plans for the future. then just hammered those lies home with all that money he had sitting around.

Though as some have predicted money really did make the difference, nor did the illegal robo- calls and voter suppression tactics, so lets just forget they lied and broke the law, they won and that is all that matters.

It is not like he is a black guy that you can try and toss out of office because you think he was born elsewhere, this guy is clearly white, so please people be kind he was only doing what the Koch brother told him to do.


So funny when corporations cry poor when they are asked to kick in the same % as everyone else, but come up with millions to fund elections and people think that they have the peoples best interest in mind, both funny and sad.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 212
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 2:40:39 PM
So, Congratulations voters of Wisconsin on shooting yourself in the foot and doing exactly what the Koch brothers wanted you to do and that is blame it on the poor people.


Which, in many cases, is actually "yourselves".

Good job

Here in Toronto; they had a fear that the public transit folks were going to play a hardline, and that Mayor Rob Ford was going to have to give them the beatdown. It turns out the transit folks took a 6% raise over three years with the consensus that they got deeper job security

That's how it's done; no hardball needed, everybody did what was best for all involved collectively.

That gave me respect for both groups.

It's just too bad that the public sector, under Dalton McGuinty in Ontario, is pillaging so much over and above everyone else's standards of living. We are all receiving far less, so that they can have far more. The level of services are also not good at all. Rallying and luncheons for lobbying and influence winning has become their main job role.

P.s. I'm liking the California thinkers views; they seem about right to me. (And not because you're gorgeous; promise)

The middle class is not a product of government socialism it is a product of having a healthy economy.


Different here in Canada. Our Ei and Universal health care are the strong ropes in a safety net meant to ensure a minimum standard of living.

Well, if the non-unionized households that makes less than public employees consist of 90% of the population, logic dictates that they will enter the work force in that lower wage category, which means they will have less to spend in real money. Good job.


I guess the flipside is that, were public citizens taxed less and paying less for rote services; they would keep more of their income, thus. have "more" expendable money.

Since Walker had his buddies fudge the employment numbers,


The Ontario Government is doing the same thing up here; blatantly

The problem is their jobs existence and not them nor their willingness to work. The only one that creates jobs for no other purpose then to create jobs is the government. There is a need for government workers but using the need as a bubble to create jobs is self-defeating. They do not generate revenue. They cost more than they bring in.


And get to the point of counterproductivity; where a Government Dept is roadblocked by or correcting what they state as errors in process by ANOTHER Government department, or division of their OWN department.


Notice the rate for Wisconsin has dropped from 8.6% in 09 to 6.8% after Mr.Walker started his work.That is a 2.2% drop In just 18 months!


NOw run a concurrent study focused on median average income throughout the whole state; what do you see? <---THAT would be the marker to measure in my opinion.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 213
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 2:50:02 PM
Walker is the best governor special interest money can buy.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 214
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 2:51:39 PM
Oh, bullhockey. The private sector doesn't make all those profits in a vaccum. They often have to use services provided by the public sector, otherwise they won't have people educated by our schools, and use our roads and infrastructure to move their products around, are derive protection frome them, etc. etc. It's a balance between the two sectors, in fact, the biggest beneficiaries of the public sector is private enterprise


And the public service can NOT be paid more than the private sector makes! You said it a balance and the scales tiped back closer to even yesterday with more balance to be achieved on Nov 6th 2012.

You do realize this all started because Mr Walker ask the public workers to pay just 5% of their pensions that was being paid 100% by the state.

I sure wish I could have had someone pay 95% of mine!

You want to talk about greed.......at least the greedy business' are the one actually making the money.

Bottom line the taxpayers have spoken and will speak again in November.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 215
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 2:55:48 PM
So then why has unemployment went down since he took over?


Drop the hourly wages to 1.00/hr, and you may just be able to completely eliminate unemployment! (to those who actually register in those numbers; meaning those who are not lost off the grid) Once a person no longer takes EI, or welfare, or any other type of Government wage; they go off grid.


BINGO!!! You win the prize for stating the obvious........ BUT, the middle class workers that you refer to cannot include the public sector workers, because THEY get paid from the PROFITS made by the PRIVATE SECTOR workers.......... THAT is the part you just can't seem to wrap your mind around........ and it is not even that big of a point, either. The public sector workers do NOT make any profit at all........... they are paid from taxes collected from the PRIVATE sector, where the money is made..........


That seems somewhat undebatable


So funny when corporations cry poor when they are asked to kick in the same % as everyone else, but come up with millions to fund elections and people think that they have the peoples best interest in mind, both funny and sad.


Called a spade a spade.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 216
view profile
History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:22:07 PM
but that wasn't what the corporate money backed governor wanted. He was out for their collective bargaining


I'm glad to see whatever corporations contributed to Gov. Walker's campaign exercise their First Amendment right to free speech. If there's evidence any of them broke any laws that set limits on and require disclosure of campaign contributions, you haven't said what it is.

Even FDR opposed collective bargaining for government employees. I hope this is a major step toward eliminating it in other states also.


And if the polls hold, they will be voting in Obama...again.


It's obvious millions of them will--for whatever that's worth. I don't know what polls you're referring to, but it's far from obvious from the ones I've seen that Mr. Obama's supporters will account for enough electoral votes to re-elect him. And the Supreme Court hasn't even struck down the Obamacare law and his attack on Arizona SB 1070 yet.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 217
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:25:00 PM

You wrote:
"Drop the hourly wages to 1.00/hr, and you may just be able to completely eliminate unemployment! (to those who actually register in those numbers; meaning those who are not lost off the grid) "

You do mean "employment".... right? Why would anyone work for $1.00/hr?

Paul K


Paul don't you just love people from other countries trying to tell us the best way to run ours. Especially when their people are jumping the boarder to get health care here.

The PEOPLE have spoken they wanted the change Walker is implementing. They realized things were better after he came into office.

That is the bottom line.

The liberals hate it when their plans are show for what they are unsustainable.

Still waiting for Thinking to comment on her own people cutting pension benefits in California.

The truth is we can't keep spending money that is not there. The PEOPLE showed last night that they are ready to go to work and cut what needs cutting so they can get back to work.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 218
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:29:03 PM
You do mean "employment".... right? Why would anyone work for $1.00/hr?


Because they have no other choices.

Only

Paul don't you just love people from other countries trying to tell us the best way to run ours. Especially when their people are jumping the boarder to get health care here.


When we need to, and because we "can"

P.s. I never made one declaration about what Wisconsin should or should not do (just a heads up)

It's funny that you mention cutting and/or selling off entities that make a profit. Our premier (akin to a Governor) wants to sell of one of the most profitable tax incomes ot the Government here also.

Sorta loopy; to say the least.


IF the imbeciles that run a PRIVATE company, run it into the ground, they lose their jobs, and their shareholders


Often times they lose their jobs with a massive buyout that would furnish most people for life.

Assuming they dont win a bailout for their actions
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 219
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:36:45 PM

Saids who? Instead of hoping that their incomes go down, how about hoping that your employers increase your pay upwards? That way everyone wins, instead of everyone losing, which is stupid.


Says anyone who understands business. You can't spend more than you are making as the government does and even the government can't continue to do so. That is what the people said last night!


Great, they will get another chance to let everyone know how smart they are for reducing the money circulating in their economy. And if the polls hold, they will be voting in Obama...again.


Actually Wisconsin has more money circulating now than before Walker that is why he kept his job.

And don't count on the polls, the ones from right before the election had the challenger winning and he lost by more than he did in the first.

Even the exit polls showed Walker in trouble however when the real votes started coming in it took only 45 minutes to call the election for Walker.

Nobama knew to stay out of this battle and knows now just how much trouble he is in come November.

On November 6th the people will speak again......I just hope the ones that are elected have the same backbone as Mr. Walker and start the needed cuts to get America back to the glory it once had!
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 220
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:38:41 PM
On Wisconsin.

So any predictions as to who they blame in a year when the state is broke once again when the impact of less taxes collected is felt?

I am going to predict that they blame the inability to pass any legislation because now the democrats will control the house and nothing will get done.

Yeah for democracy, where pretty much everyone loses because some rich white men who spend their time spurning hyperbole (from both sides) with the end result being a major division in opinion and the system and it comes to a halt.


The democrats clearly broke the cardinal rule of power and control, and that is never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake, as it would probably been in their best interest to just let the shit show happen and then be able to with blame point to the obvious mess that is at this point too big to sweep under the rug.

Now they have to take some of the blame.

They saw him stubble and they went for the knockout 5 mins on the first round and gassed themselves out.




Paul don't you just love people from other countries trying to tell us the best way to run ours. Especially when their people are jumping the boarder to get health care here.

Calling Bullshit there, Canadian going to the US for free health care? really?

I have to buy health insurance each time I travel to the US, if I knew I could have been getting it for free I would have loved to known.

What do I need to do if something happens to me next time I am in the US?
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 221
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:40:33 PM

As oppose to your own countrymen thinking you should be paid less...which I think is even worse. And don't blame the Candians for having a better healthcare system....including being able to afford jumping the border if they don't want to wait for some services...they're still way better off individually than we are, and that's nothing to scoff at.


If they are so much better than the US then why are we the country the whole world is trying to get into?

Also if you think they are better off why are you still living here? If I thought another country was a much better place to live I would be living there!
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 222
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:42:56 PM
Also if you think they are better off why are you still living here? If I thought another country was a much better place to live I would be living there!

Well clearly you have never been to a Scandinavian country or probably actually know anything about them.



Edit for below:
Still waiting for you to tell me how I can get free health care in the US.

 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 223
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:47:20 PM

Well clearly you have never been to a Scandinavian country or probably actually know anything about them.


Never been to them but I do like their divorce laws. Other than that I will take the USA and the opportunity it provides.

Plus I love the sugar sand beaches of bay county FL.

I also love the fact we are taking America back.......The chagrin of the ones that don't like it is just icing on the cake!
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 224
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:59:16 PM
Calling Bullshit there, Canadian going to the US for free health care? really?

I have to buy health insurance each time I travel to the US, if I knew I could have been getting it for free I would have loved to known.

What do I need to do if something happens to me next time I am in the US?


Wow have trouble reading much? I did NOT say free I said they were coming here to get it. Many from your country are electing to come here and pay for health care when they could get it for free there.

Do some research on life spans of people with cancer here compared to your and other countries.

Edit to add.....

The Dow had its best day this year after the news of the Wisconsin elections. Got to love it!
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 225
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 6/6/2012 4:18:44 PM
Many from your country are electing to come here and pay for health care when they could get it for free there.

It is not many, it is select few and that is their right to do so.




Do some research on life spans of people with cancer here compared to your and other countries.

Now I know you really have no idea what you are talking about and can only spew what you have been told by the Tee Vee.

List of countries by life expectancy

1 Japan
3 Switzerland
5 Iceland
12 Canada
15 Norway
16 Austria
16 Netherlands
25 Finland
38 United States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

See a trend here?




The Dow had its best day this year after the news of the Wisconsin elections. Got to love it!

Yeah because two things that are totally unrelated are fun to put together to try and make a correlation.





hey pau....
Seeing how the badget is now BALANCED, as long as they stay the course, they will not have a problem. Walker started with a state that was upside down, and he straightened it out.............

That still does not account for the shortfall that is going to occur, he has given away 100's of millions in tax breaks to corporations and he has offset that with the gutting of social programs.

So now less money is going into the hands of the people that spend it in the community and more is going out of state, so there will be a shortfall and they will try and blame it on something.

So what the republicans need to do is propose some stupid stuff they know will not get passed and them when the shit hits the fan go, see they would not let us do this so it all feel apart.



Unless you can explain how that shift in tax revenue will positively effect the economy I will assume you like many others have been duped.
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