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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)      Home login  
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 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 51
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)Page 3 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

I've never read the books you have, and even I know she argued for a much more radical and all encompassing world view.

So I'll ask. Since you haven't read the book that best expounds her ideals, what exactly are your sources of information?
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 52
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/25/2011 12:00:41 PM
>>>There's a profound difference between a scientist and a philosopher (3/24/2011 7:02:18 PM)
>>>Objectivism is a philosophy the same way Scientology is a religion, or a Bazooka Joe comic is a graphic novel. (3/24/2011 9:08:20 PM)

If you don't believe it is a philisophy, why did you state did it is? If you don't think its a philiosphy, then your first argument is moot- if you do think it is a philosphy, your second argument is moot.

--------------

>>>If you (and a lot of others) got your way in true Objectivist or Libertarian fashion, we would be stepping over sick children and elderly on the way to the store.

And would this bother you? Would you take steps for this to change?

Welfare will be replaced with the replacement that honestly exists today- Charity. If you believe you have something to gain from helping the sick children and the elderly, then it is in your own self-interest to help- charity and volunteering instantly come to mind. Being Libertarian doesn't mean being heartless. It simply means its not the Governments business's to forcefully take some of our income and give it to whomsoever they deem "deserves" it more. Rather, you have the freedom to do it voluntarily. Isn't that a moral solution?

Not to mention, competition breeds greater results- you have a problem with homeless people hooked on drugs? Donate. Did the people you gave your money to help the situation, or did it go to exorbitant adminstrative costs? If they didn't, you can give your money to a different organsation- and if enough people get discouraged, the superior service will become the big dog. Isn't this something to strive toward- helping the most people, with the least ammount of money? Or is it somehow better that we are hemorrhaging money unnecessarily?

>>>everybody gets what they deserve society in history?

Whatever happens, in such a society, people would get what they deserve. The only people who do not get what they deserve are the ones who are being supported by others- and the people who support those people surely must get some sasification out of it.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 53
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/25/2011 2:53:30 PM

Welfare will be replaced with the replacement that honestly exists today- Charity.

I have quite a bit more I could say about this, believe me, but for now I'll just say this much: because it already exists today, as you said, it is hardly a replacement for the system currently in place. If charity WERE addressing the problem satisfactorily to begin with, we wouldn't have our current system, would we? And, as I already said earlier, "The needs of the neediest outpace the most generous charities by a pretty large margin-- especially in tough economic times."

I can just see it now-- a family's house burning to the ground because they couldn't pay the fire department in advance. There seems to be no end to the madness. The good news (for me) is that this is all merely academic.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 54
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/25/2011 2:57:15 PM

I can just see it now-- a family's house burning to the ground because they couldn't pay the fire department in advance.


WTF??? How would paying a fire department prevent a house from burning to the ground?
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 55
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/25/2011 3:00:55 PM
If the fire department is not paid for by taxation, or is a for-fee private entity, it could refuse to do a job without a guarantee of payment.

Not my most serious and pressing point, admittedly. I really have to resist the urge to make comments that distract from my other points.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 56
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/25/2011 3:05:39 PM
Fly , come on.. you and I have debated before and I know you're smarter than that bud....
fire department? good lord....
 CallmeKen
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 57
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/25/2011 3:08:26 PM
I just hope that they leave the giant squid in this time.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 58
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/25/2011 3:21:00 PM
>>>If charity WERE addressing the problem satisfactorily to begin with, we wouldn't have our current system, would we?

I look at it from the opposite angle- if millions were not forced to donate to what is essientially a federal charity, people would have more money to voluntarily support actual charities. And actual charities, being forced to compete with your dollar, will have actual results, quickly weeding out "welfare junkies".

As it is, people think they're already "doing their part" and just shrug their shoulders.

>>>"The needs of the neediest outpace the most generous charities by a pretty large margin-- especially in tough economic times."

Again, we're experiencing pretty tough ecconmic times, but charity donations are still going strong.

At the end of the day, all you're arguing is people won't do what you feel is best with their own money- so you need to force them, under threat of violence and property theft. And that is wrong. People should be free to live their lives, reguardless if you agree with their decsions.

>>>a family's house burning to the ground because they couldn't pay the fire department in advance.

And, again, if people have something to gain- richer customers, a happier community, a neighbourhood that isn't on fire- then they will help people. Somewhere down the line people thought that self-interest means that you will leave people to die in the streets. I mean, for gods sake, haven't you ever heard of the volunteer fire department?
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 59
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/25/2011 3:24:13 PM
Lol i still can't get over that first statement...."If charity WERE addressing the problem satisfactorily to begin with, we wouldn't have our current system, would we?"- couldn't that be said about any government program? "If we didn't need it, it wouldn't exist"- its closeminded garbage.

Its the verbal form of closing your eyes and covering your ears and yelling "LALALALALALA"- just because something exists doesn't mean its should.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 60
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/25/2011 3:37:33 PM
if millions were not forced to donate to what is essientially a federal charity, people would have more money to voluntarily support actual charities.

There was a time when government was much smaller, when social programs didn't exist, when only the wealthy were educated, and when taxes were lower overall. As I was trying to point out, if charities were satisfactory then, we wouldn't have what we have now.

People should be free to live their lives, reguardless if you agree with their decsions.

And these people have freely elected representatives to address problems for them through government initiatives and services. In other words, I am saying that free people will do what free people have done: look to their government to solve problems that were not being addressed much at all otherwise-- and that happens regardless of whether all agree with government solutions or not.

Edit:


couldn't that be said about any government program?

Maybe, but because we are speaking VERY generally, it isn't the place to pick over exact programs and bureaus.

"If we didn't need it, it wouldn't exist"- its closeminded garbage.

So you don't have an insightful retort instead?

It has been said that necessity is the mother of invention. That doesn't mean that all inventions have proven themselves totally necessary. However, many do increase our quality of life significantly.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 61
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/25/2011 4:14:53 PM
Well, anyway, fire departments or not - they're doing a very cool thing for the movie, but the deadline to participate is coming up soon. Go to the movie's website (or Facebook page) and check it out. It's not your allotted 15 minutes of fame, but what the heck!
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 62
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/26/2011 2:15:50 PM
Can't post that link here, Paul. As I said, go to the movie's webpage or Facebook page and you'll see the video about how to participate.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 63
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/28/2011 12:10:02 AM
Last I checked, they had a brief video of when Rearden and his family was first was introduced- and like I said before, from that brief video, it was clear everything had rushed dialoge and a mini-series over-dramatic like feel to it. It hurt to watch.....

Still, on the directed responses;

>>>There was a time when government was much smaller, when social programs didn't exist, when only the wealthy were educated, and when taxes were lower overall.

And we don't live in such a time- the lower class and the middle class are far larger, and far more educated. The results will not be the same, nor do we need to live in an atmosphere of violence to keep such a standard.

>>>And these people have freely elected representatives to address problems for them through government initiatives and services.

And where did I object to peoples right to representation? Again, you're looking for demons that don't exist.

>>>In other words, I am saying that free people will do what free people have done: look to their government to solve problems that were not being addressed much at all otherwise

And if those people attempt to infringe on other peoples rights, as they have clearly done, then they are wrong to do so.

>>>Maybe, but because we are speaking VERY generally, it isn't the place to pick over exact programs and bureaus.

Why not? Certainly if government systems have failed, as they often do, then the numerous examples will clearly paint a picture of whats working.

>>>That doesn't mean that all inventions have proven themselves totally necessary.

But when it comes to the Government, all inventions have an exorbitant cost, both to the physical expense and to the wasted time- when private companies risk private ventures, they waste their own money on their own mistakes- when the government takes risks, however, its everyones time and money that is wasted- and if a private business were to deny its flaws, and drive itself into the ground, only they would lose because of it- in government, as we've seen with FEMA and numerous other organisations at their disposal, if it fails, the Government would rather dig a deeper hole than admit a failure, at the cost of everyone.

>>>However, many do increase our quality of life significantly.

I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing there a more efficient, more cost effiective way, that offers people greater liberty, than we have now. We don't NEED the government to threaten to send us to prison if we don't pay for everyone who 'needs' it- and having these programs AS A RIGHT only promotes the exploitive nature that you cannot deny feeds off the hardworking individuals who have been mislead into believing that their taxes are the only way- its not.

If you truly hoped to help people, you would embrace more efficient ideas. If you truly cared about individual rights, you would embrace a solution that offered more liberty. But you don't. You support expanded costs, decreased freedoms, and increased debt, And thats says alot.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 64
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/30/2011 4:09:33 PM
Hallelujah! I am a happy camper today. I just found out that the movie is coming to Pittsburgh.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 65
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/30/2011 6:16:22 PM

Hallelujah! I am a happy camper today. I just found out that the movie is coming to Pittsburgh.


Alright, I'm jealous. It seems that there is little chance of "Atlas" being shown in my state on the 15th. I guess that I'll just send in my taxes on that day and go see "Scream 4." It's not "Atlas," but it seems to still be apropos given the release date.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 66
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/31/2011 12:40:59 PM
CMonster - if you keep emailing them or posting on their Facebook page asking them to bring the movie to your state - and get people you know to do likewise - maybe it will happen. Good luck!
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 67
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 3/31/2011 7:54:51 PM
I've been rallying the Minnesota troops to use the eventful.com site to voice their desire to have "Atlas" viewed here. Minneapolis has actually one of the top 10 cities wanting the movie. We're actually jockeying back and forth with Chicago!

I've also sent Harmon and the gang contact information for the managers for several of movie theaters and their parent companies. I've been in email contact with these guys since last November! I'm bugging the h3ll out of them!

They're basically asking themselves "Who is C. Monster?"
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 68
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/1/2011 6:02:48 PM
^^^^^^ ^^^^^^

Keep at it and I hope your dedication pays off!
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 69
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/9/2011 3:36:32 PM
I've also sent Harmon and the gang contact information for the managers for several of movie theaters and their parent companies. I've been in email contact with these guys since last November! I'm bugging the h3ll out of them!

They're basically asking themselves "Who is C. Monster?"


^^^^^^ ^^^^^^

Keep at it and I hope your dedication pays off!

I am happy to announce that Atlas has been confirmed to be released in Minnesota at seven different theaters, one of which is in my neighborhood!!!

"DUH.. WINNING!!!"

Alright, that was my one and only time that I will ever use that catch phrase.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 70
view profile
History
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/9/2011 3:56:12 PM
"I can just see it now-- a family's house burning to the ground because they couldn't pay the fire department in advance.
WTF??? How would paying a fire department prevent a house from burning to the ground?"

If the fire department is not paid for by taxation, or is a for-fee private entity, it could refuse to do a job without a guarantee of payment."

Amusingly enough, this has actually HAPPENED in the past. There actually HAVE BEEN towns long ago, even in the US, which decided to have a purely privatized fire department, and when a non-paying someone's house burned, the privatized department indeed refused to help.

There are lots of things that CAN NOT be done well through private enterprise, just as there are things that CAN NOT be done well through government.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 71
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/11/2011 12:56:24 PM
Its funny how people can find flaws in a philosophy they know nothing or very little about? it absolutely astounds me, Its like going to a bar watching Sunday afternoon Football and all these arm chair quarterbacks giving us their opinions but has never played the game or the position and if they did play the game they never played on the starting squad yet can criticize the quarterback for what ever reason.

I suggest before watching the movie, read the book " atlas shrugged" first, actually read the Entire book not just a few pages and think you know what its all about.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 72
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/13/2011 7:37:26 AM
My GF is taking me to see it for my birthday Friday ! 415
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 73
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/13/2011 6:19:02 PM
Now that's a great birthday gift!
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 74
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/13/2011 7:30:11 PM
^^^^^^ I'm not so sure about the rice cooker....




Now that's a great birthday gift!

Yeah, especially when combined with dinner and sex!
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 75
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/15/2011 3:33:10 PM
Saw the movie this morning. All I can say is that it was good enough (if you've read the book).
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