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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)      Home login  
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 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 76
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)Page 4 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Just got home a little while ago after seeing it twice. I would have seen it a third time but the evening shows were SOLD OUT (hooray)! The theater was about 2/3 full for the 3:20 show, and about 80% full for the 5:50 show. When the opening scene came up, it gave me chills both times. It's MUCH better than the critics are saying, but then again, I didn't expect them to like it.

Everyone applauded when Dagny stood up to the union bully and he went out of her office with his tail between his legs. Applause at the end of the movie, too.

I can't go see it again this weekend, but I plan to go for 2-3 more shows next weekend!
 U make it entertaining
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 77
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/15/2011 7:47:42 PM
PittsburghVixen ... where can I get a listing of where the movie is playing?

I have a choice: Florida, Illinios or Ontario.

jco415 <=== I get it now, your birthday!

Have a happy one!
(Mine was on the 13th)
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 78
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/15/2011 8:27:02 PM
Go to the movie's website (google Atlas Shrugged Part 1) and they have a list of theaters by state. I don't believe it's in Canada at this time.

Enjoy! And a belated happy birthday!
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 79
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/15/2011 9:17:54 PM
I just got back from seeing it in a very packed theatre... now normally when the theatre is packed I hate it because people talk, are rude, kick seats and open phones....not this theatre, quiet and polite except for the clapping at the end and laughs at the union boss scene.

Loved the movie and can't wait for the second and third.


Yeah 4/15....pretty clever huh?
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 80
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/16/2011 3:27:00 PM
Supposedly if the first is a financial success, the second will be released April 15 2012 then the third April 15 2013
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 81
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/16/2011 3:27:45 PM
Does anyone know if its playing in Canada?
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 82
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/16/2011 5:28:37 PM
I read the book years ago--dull, dull, dull. I can't imagine the movie will be much better.

I like this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/ayn-rand-and-the-vip-dipe_b_792184.html
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 83
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/16/2011 6:32:07 PM
BalderDog, you might try reading it again. It's coming true in today's headlines...

Personally, I have never understood how people can think that book is "dull". I find it to be a page-turner even after reading it a couple dozen times. I get something more out of it each time I read it. But that's my take, YMMV.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 84
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/16/2011 10:23:45 PM

I like this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/ayn-rand-and-the-vip-dipe_b_792184.html

Thanks for posting this. It's good to know that she was able to recoup some of the funds she paid (er, the government took) from her wages after coming to the US. It would have been a shame if she didn't get anything back. Makes you wonder about the people who use the system but had never paid anything into it.


Personally, I have never understood how people can think that book is "dull"

You hear it all of the time from people who never finished reading it or had only read the Cliff Notes version. Or possibly those who had only read articles or movie reviews about. It's typical.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 85
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/16/2011 11:07:00 PM

Makes you wonder about the people who use the system but had never paid anything into it.
Like orphaned babies? How are they treated in Ayn Rands system?

I agree that there is not a person on this planet that doesn't act in their own perceived self interest. How ever that doesnt mean I accept Ayn Rands philosophy. Which I will admit I know very little about.
In fact I find it a revelation as to how it seems to be the source of what has permeated the American psych to a greet extent even if the majority have never heard of Ayn Rand.

At the moment I'm tossing up between reading her fiction or philosophical works to try and get a handle on her thinking.

Havent heard anything about the movie coming to this top of the world
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 86
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/16/2011 11:38:38 PM
Like orphaned babies? How are they treated in Ayn Rands system?

In Rand's philosophy, people who are unable to burden the accountability of having children would be reasonable enough to know that having children would not be in their or the child's best interest. That's the thing about her philosophy, people don't act merely on whims, they take the time to consider their actions first.

I agree that there is not a person on this planet that doesn't act in their own perceived self interest.

Yes, the difference is that the people who follow Objectivism do not do it at the detriment of other people. Take your example, people who bring children into the world without having the accountability of following through completely on their actions are doing it to the detriment of the child. People who follow the philosophy would at least be accountable for their actions.

I agree that there is not a person on this planet that doesn't act in their own perceived self interest. How ever that doesnt mean I accept Ayn Rands philosophy. Which I will admit I know very little about.

The other thing about Objectivism is that it is about rational self interest. For example, it's reasonable for someone not to accept Objectivism but someone who has objections with it while knowing very little about it isn't very rational. It's unfair to denounce it without understanding it as much as it is unfair for someone who understands to fully debate its premises with a person not prepared to rationally defend accurate tenets of the philosophy.

At the moment I'm tossing up between reading her fiction or philosophical works to try and get a handle on her thinking.

If you're prepared to undertake the challenge of reading the book from cover to cover, I'd commend you. Most wouldn't consider it after learning that it's almost 1200 pages. If you do and afterward you still have issues with her philosophy, I'm pretty certain that Objectivist would enjoy fully debating its actual tenets with you.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 87
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/17/2011 10:00:57 AM

It's good to know that she was able to recoup some of the funds she paid


By accepting the government payments, it makes me wonder about the depth of her convictions.

Years ago, I lost a job and ended up homeless. I was in my 20's and at that time, and I felt that any able-bodied 20 year old without children should not collect welfare from the State. So, finding myself homeless, should I allow self-interest to over-ride my beliefs? Of course not--I toughed it out; eventually finding a job (which wasn't an easy thing to do without a phone, food, clean clothing, transportation, and having to sneak into gas station restrooms to clean up). It sure would of been easier to take the welfare, but I refused to do so.

Seems Rand's convictions were not as strongly held as mine.

Yes, I finished the book:


You hear it all of the time from people who never finished reading it or had only read the Cliff Notes version. Or possibly those who had only read articles or movie reviews about. It's typical.


In fact, I have a first edition, first printing copy sitting on my bookshelf. With the minor the interest in the movie, and more interest in Rand in general, it is probably a good time to sell it.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 88
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/17/2011 1:29:34 PM

By accepting the government payments, it makes me wonder about the depth of her convictions.

You do understand that the Government was basically giving back the money that they took from her wages, right? That's how the system works, at least if you're over 50 nowadays. People under 50 have little chance of recouping what is taken out of their paychecks upon retirement under the current system.

It sure would of been easier to take the welfare, but I refused to do so.

That doesn't make you a martyr, it makes you ill-informed. When you work for a wage, the Government makes your employer withhold a portion as FUTA (look it up). When you lose your employment at no fault of your own, you are due payments from the fund which has been paid into. You worked hard to earn a living and have your pay into these funds withheld yet you wouldn't take back what was taken from you in your time of need? Ever consider that you could have found another job more quickly if you had taken the payment?

Yes, I finished the book:

I stand corrected. Finishing the book doesn't necessarily mean that a person understands it premise. From your example, you worked, the Government took its payment along with funds for insurance in case you lost your job; you lose your job and decided to become homeless because you wouldn't reclaim money that was taken from you in the first place. And what did you end up with, the ability to say that you were a martyr because of your own actions.

If this is the manner in which you support yourself through life, I suggest that you look for additional things to sell along with the book to have funds available for yourself. But perhaps the title of martyr is worth more to you.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 89
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/17/2011 1:47:26 PM

In Rand's philosophy, people who are unable to burden the accountability of having children would be reasonable enough to know that having children would not be in their or the child's best interest. That's the thing about her philosophy, people don't act merely on whims, they take the time to consider their actions first.

This side steps the true orphan that has no capable living relative.


If you're prepared to undertake the challenge of reading the book from cover to cover, I'd commend you. Most wouldn't consider it after learning that it's almost 1200 pages.

And the bible has how many pages? I didn't have to read all of them to know I don't agree with its record of history.
An audio book sounds like an option. I just need to work out where I can download one that isn't overpriced or overly complicated in the download process.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 90
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/17/2011 2:35:39 PM

This side steps the true orphan that has no capable living relative.

There are always exceptions where the child loses the parents to tragedy but that is such a small percentage compared to those who parents are living but unaccountable. There are always ways to adjust for exceptions but you can not say that in today's times that exceptions are the norm. Unaccountable people at the family, business and government levels are the norm and that's the problem.

And the bible has how many pages? I didn't have to read all of them to know I don't agree with its record of history.

But yet there are those who have read it, undaunted by its length because of their drive to completely understand it's message. Choosing not to read it is fine but I challenge anyone who hasn't to feel that they would be in a place to debate its contents completely.

An audio book sounds like an option. I just need to work out where I can download one that isn't overpriced or overly complicated in the download process.

Try your local library and check out the unabridged version. I don't know how many audio files it will take but it's approximately 50 CDs.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 91
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/17/2011 4:48:29 PM
I think it's interesting that when in discussions about politics, the Liberals continually change the topic and focus on things either NOT addressed, so they can build straw men to knock over OR they attack the personal lives yet when it's one of their own's personal lives being attacked they scream foul.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 92
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/17/2011 9:47:40 PM
I think it's interesting that when in discussions about politics, the Liberals continually change the topic and focus on things either NOT addressed, so they can build straw men to knock over OR they attack the personal lives yet when it's one of their own's personal lives being attacked they scream foul.

I don't know if it's a "Liberal" thing but I agree that there are those who will change the topic. My guess is that they don't know enough of the details to discuss them in detail so they attempt to equate a situation which they deem morally wrong or corrupt with debate. They hope that by selecting such a reprehensible situation as their platform, you'd either agree with them negating your stance or disagree with them and make yourself out as reprehensible as their situation. When you lump it all together, it isn't rational.

Now speaking of something that isn't rational, how about the fact that the largest industry in the US takes more than it gives? In a nutshell, there are twice as many government workers in the US than all of manufacturing? Specifically there are more Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. And how are these people paid? Tax dollars. There are way too many people in construction and manufacturing yet the Government says that they need to expand in order to support the unemployed. That doesn't make sense. Take a look at this WSJ article.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050204576219073867182108.html

Now the people you described jco415 would probably say that I probably would want those out of work people to suck it up and fend for themselves. No way! Because their work set aside FUTA for their well being for such a situation and they deserve it. They'd have more money available if it didn't take so much to run and pay for such a large government.

There would be more money available for FUTA, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Education, you name it. Americans who get income tax withheld would like for the Government to repay them through these services but most of their payments go to sustaining government workers who produce no goods. Thus the US has become a nation of takers and not makers thanks to our government. THIS is what "Atlas Shrugged" is all about.

Now if someone would like to equate the need to sustain parentless orphans with the need to sustain a bloated Government, well... That should be another thread altogether.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 93
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/17/2011 10:28:52 PM
^^^^^^So true.

Now, I don't claim to know everything about Rand...or much at all beyond the basics of her Outlook, bit I'm tired of hearing about orphans...

Did she ever MENTION orphans or was her work simply for adults, about adults and just didn't have children in the stories/equations?

Now, believing that people should stand on their own is nor automatically saying no one should be helped...every millionaire/billionaire I've ever read about have given graciously to charities.... but on THEIR terms and to those of their choosing...as it should be....not forced on them by the government.

...And if someone CHOOSES not to give...that's their right...and legacy.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 94
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/18/2011 3:31:15 PM
...And didn't Reardon generously GIVE to an unknown charity without pause? In fact, even after hearing the charity didn't want to be connected to him he didn't rescind the gift...
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 95
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/19/2011 8:31:48 AM
Yes, and "Give" being the operative word as opposed to being taken by force. Only thieves and the government does that. The thing with the government is that they do it in the guise of looking out for "the little guy." If that was the case, they'd suggest that more of them learn how to benefit from the legal tax breaks that corporations use. But if the Government did that, they would not be able to keep themselves so large and indulgent.

SO... Is this thread dead because we've decided not to play the "guilt game" any more?
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 96
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/19/2011 2:43:11 PM

The best economy is one that is a combination of capitalism and socialism. There will always be people who need the help of the strong, but the strong are often stingy, so to leave social welfare up to private charities means to leave a great many people to suffer and suffer miserably.


Seems to me that the more Government charity there is the more people seem to "need" it! Look how welfare has grown!

Perhaps if all of the productive members of society went on strike......

The only way socialism or collectivism work is if there is someone industrious to collect from!
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 97
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/19/2011 4:21:16 PM
Want to see the result? Go to India.

How about making it easy for the rest of us and describe what you mean.

When I look at their GNP, it looks like at least a couple of people over there are doing a little better now than 20 or 30 years ago.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gnp_mktp_pp_cd&idim=country:IND&dl=en&hl=en&q=india%27s+gnp
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 98
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/19/2011 8:00:05 PM
There is poverty everywhere, poverty on a scale Americans have never seen, not in the ghettos, not in the poorest rural areas. No social services. People, whole families, living on the street in big cities. Beggars everwhere. Working people living in hovels without plumbing or electricity....


Here's statistical data about India (again). Their GNP is going WAY up.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gnp_mktp_pp_cd&idim=country:IND&dl=en&hl=en&q=india%27s+gnp

Now I'm not saying that there isn't any poverty in India, but I'm seeing another pattern that when evidence is presented, there are people who seem to disregard it and restate their personal opinions (be they accurate or not). I'd say that this has happened in this thread probably three times or so. This is what politicians do and we can all see how well that works.

Now people can keep doing as they have prior to the depression, prior to World War I and prior to the revolution which is complain and play the "Ain't it awful" game. How far has it gotten the masses? At best they've become "mediocre" because they listen to the "educated" who keep telling them how bad off they are.

Now you have another, much smaller group of people who had grown up with that same group of people yet they had somehow stepped out of that environment and onto a path of prosperity. Were they lucky? Were they given some divine right that the others weren't privied to? Perhaps, if you consider having the fortitude to do something different, to take a risk, to do something that the masses had been conviced to believe couldn't be done.

Columbus sailed across the ocean because he didn't believe the masses. The Pilgrims left England because they didn't believe the masses. So did the colonist. People still immigrate to this country because they didn't believe the masses. These people had the fortitude to do something different and many either paved the way for others and became very successful as compared to the masses back home.

Open your eyes and look around you. All you see are the masses of people listing to diatribes about how messed up their lives are. If you look closer, you will find people in each of this groups who were able to break the mold due to their own effort. Do the naysayers point out these people as examples which everyone else could learn from? Not hardly. They'd rather stand on their soapboxes making themselves feel better by pointing out all the people who don't have it as good as they do.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 99
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/19/2011 8:59:44 PM

I have seen it.


(Again) Have you seen this? Or more specifically, do you care?

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gnp_mktp_pp_cd&idim=country:IND&dl=en&hl=en&q=india%27s+gnp
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 100
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/19/2011 10:04:42 PM
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."  - Thomas Jefferson



Holly...... I have a question for you. You've said that you are institutionaly educated... do you believe that, when applying for a job, your education should put you ahead of someone with just a high school education in the hiring process?

Why? Aren't they just as deserving of being hired as you?


Likewise your attempt at using your education as a way of somehow granting more validity to your point is very much an objectivist view.... that your effort to educate yourself should be rewarded... and you therefore have more value than one whom isn't as educated.

Granted, it blew up in your face because you assumed the gent you tried to stomp on, actually had bigger shoes than you... nevertheless you have shown that at your core you believe ones effort and accomplishment should equal more gain...
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