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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)      Home login  
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 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 126
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)Page 6 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
^^^^^ I learned early the best way to defeat an opponent was to use their own weapons on them!
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 127
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/28/2011 3:36:08 PM
^^^^^^^^^^
You'd think that they'd realize that they started off pointing the weapon at themselves. Gives a new meaning to "survival of the fittest."
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 128
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/28/2011 5:48:48 PM
Like the book, I think people just got bored with this thread.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 129
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/28/2011 10:14:33 PM
Yeah, some people seem to only enjoy emotional drama. Philosophical themes seem to just go over their heads. No wonder they get bored.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 130
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/30/2011 6:50:07 PM

No wonder they get bored.


They get bored because after a while, the discussion becomes pointless. I check on this thread every once in a while to see if something new--meaning a new point of view--has been added. Nothing yet...just the same old same old. Yawn.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 131
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 4/30/2011 10:44:40 PM
They get bored because after a while, the discussion becomes pointless. I check on this thread every once in a while to see if something new--meaning a new point of view--has been added. Nothing yet...just the same old same old. Yawn.

That's because it seems that whenever brings up something which moves them emotionally and irrationally blames it on something that they don't truly understand, people can point inaccuracies in their beliefs. Besides that, they're asked rational questions which challenges their beliefs. Perhaps they see that using emotion to debate facts is pointless.

So, what's stopping you from contributing something interesting , what's stopping you? Do you have anything interesting to add besides just a "yawn?"
 Jan Sobieski
Joined: 7/4/2008
Msg: 132
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Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/1/2011 8:32:42 PM
Philosophical themes seem to just go over their heads.



Well quite. Much like Rand herself in fact, however she did at least provided a fair amount of entertainment. Her work has given myself, and many others I'm sure, a fantastic amount of laughter over the years.

I'm also sure the film is positively awful.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 133
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/1/2011 9:34:12 PM

Her work has given myself, and many others I'm sure, a fantastic amount of laughter over the years.

For example???
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 134
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/1/2011 9:38:48 PM



I'm also sure the film is positively awful.


Well, you can form your own opinion by seeing it it do the liberal thing and regurgitate the opinions of others as your own...
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 135
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/3/2011 6:34:44 PM
I'm still waiting to come across someone with an opposing view who had actually completed the book and could discuss/debate its nuances instead of creating more regurgitated verbiage or orthogonal situation. That would be an interesting discussion.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 136
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/3/2011 6:54:31 PM
I'm reading it now...
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 137
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Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/3/2011 8:57:54 PM
"do the liberal thing and regurgitate the opinions of others as your own..."

As is well documented, conservatives NEVER quote each other and pretend to believe the same thing.
 Jan Sobieski
Joined: 7/4/2008
Msg: 138
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Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/3/2011 9:48:48 PM
For example???


Where do I begin? Well, there is of course the fantastic insights she makes regarding great thinkers such as Kant and Nietzsch: these of course being that she had absolutely no idea what they are talking about. However I would have to say that my favourite example Rand's simple minded vulgarity is her insistence that a meaningless tautology can actually form the basis of a meaningful metaphysics (she claimed herself that her entire 'philosophy' rested on just such a metaphysical foundation).

Rand and her acolytes are nothing more than dogmatists and gluttons who do not wish to be regarded as such. It would be far more noble to display a bearing that acknowledged this state, but then again nobility is about as far removed from Rand as her philosophy is from being worthy of serious study.
 Jan Sobieski
Joined: 7/4/2008
Msg: 139
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Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/3/2011 9:57:05 PM

Well, you can form your own opinion by seeing it it do the liberal thing and regurgitate the opinions of others as your own...



I really don't know what point, if any, you are trying to make here. Are you suggesting that anyone who does not find the film/book to be brilliant are merely regurgitating the opinions of others? No, I have not read Atlas Shrugged, nor seen the film. I am however quite familiar with Rand's non-fictional work, and it is rubbish.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 140
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/3/2011 10:00:48 PM
^^^^^My point? My point is you're commenting about a movie you have not seen...or at least commenting about the MOVIE is what SHOULD be happening here since that's the topic!
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 141
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/3/2011 10:21:20 PM

Rand and her acolytes are nothing more than dogmatists and gluttons who do not wish to be regarded as such.

Isn't it a bit absurd to feel that someone is a glutton just because they produce while there are those who feel that they should receive the benefits of that production just because they don't have as much? Who is really the glutton here?

It would be far more noble to display a bearing that acknowledged this state, but then again nobility is about as far removed from Rand as her philosophy is from being worthy of serious study.

And of course a person's merit should be defined not by his own definition, but by those who have no bearing on his/her life. Do people like that feel gluttonous since they are so full of themselves?
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 142
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/4/2011 5:31:18 PM
There's a good piece here (from the HuffPo, no less!) for the libs amongst us:

http: //www dot huffingtonpost dot com (slash) michael-shermer (slash) why-liberals-should-see-a_b_854697 dot html?ref=fb&src=sp
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 143
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/5/2011 11:26:02 AM
The interesting thing is that Rand didn't care for either of the major political parties and actually really pissed off the conservatives when "Atlas" was published. Buckley was one of her biggest detractors.

The author of the article actually said that liberals, conservatives, progressives, libertarians, Tea Partiers, and "politicos" should all go see the movie which I think is a bad suggestion if they hadn't thoroughly read "Atlas." While the movie was good enough for those who are well versed in the book and its characters, the movie (while accurate) didn't include many of the underlying things and character development which lends itself to fully understanding the concept of Objectivism.

Personally, I hope that if John Aglialoro does decide to go forward with the next installment, he includes flashbacks to the characters childhood. That would help fill in the gaps as to their motivation rational behind their beliefs. For example, the movie did not portray depth of ineptness of James Taggart. The movie only alluded to the business savvy of Dagny. No one would imagine that Francisco is extremely competent in all of his endeavors and we just got a glimpse of what Hank has to contend with within his homelife.

This is why sans reading the entire book, anything other method of learning about the characters or Rand's philosophy leaves gaping holes in what Rand envisioned. Emotion driven morality can easily hurl discriminating stones through those holes vilifying the concept or anyone who believes in its tenets.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 144
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/5/2011 5:09:40 PM
If I was a man, I would think twice before I would choose someone with her beliefs to become the mother of my children.

That's interesting. So you are saying that (based on this video), women should be treated (or used) NOT as a virtuous person, but just one who can fulfill his need to bear children? That their relationship should not be bound by their mutual admiration of each other's virtue but as for what one can provide the other? As if the purpose of their relationship is primarily to fulfill the needs of the other by providing what the other doesn't have and keep a tally of what is owed? Is that what you're saying?

The whole going Galt is just a replay of the kid who takes his ball and goes home when things don't go his way.

Such like the Wisconsin legislature who left the state in order to curtail the vote on the fate of their Teacher's Union, right?
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 145
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/5/2011 7:13:52 PM
Oh Snap! Snap, snap snap!
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 146
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Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/5/2011 7:59:10 PM
Actually, the actions of the Wisconsin Democrats, who left the state in order to curtail the vote on the fate of public service workers, was VERY much in line with Rand's philosophy. And they did NOT match with the petulant child image that is implied. They acted directly, in the only way they could, to try to stop the GOP from erasing the rights of, and existing and future possible obligations to, the public workers of Wisconsin.
Rand proposed that REASON ought to be the primary tool of decision by individuals, and she held further one VERY important thing that many of those who followed after, failed to note: that the person who leads themselves by reason, MUST TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ALL OF THE REAL WORLD IN ORDER TO DO SO. Too many people heard the idea that a person should always seem personal happiness, and stopped with that, thinking it was a call to gluttony and self-indulgence. Those who propose to ignore the concerns of the working class, or of those unable to work, are NOT following in Rand's steps, they are pointedly IGNORING her thinking.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 147
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/5/2011 9:41:32 PM
That's what I was getting at. I was curious whether legislators would be labeled differently because of, well; their political affiliation even though they were in a sense going on strike (taking their ball and going home as some would say). Keeping up with the playing ball analogy it is difficult keeping up with the "morality rules" when the rules change depending on who's at bat.

As you said, in following the ideal of Objectivism, one must take into account everything which pertains to reality in order to perceive the situation rationally. Unfortunately, many of Rand's detractors would formulate their opinions on selective snippets of the philosophy, much like polarized politicians who tell half truths at the expense of their opponents.

They fail to hear one of the most basic tenets of Objectivism, that one shouldn't sacrifice others for his own sake. But realizing that would mean that Rand would denounce (and she did) the actions of corporate tycoons who b@stardize Capitalism by taking advantage of others for their own gain. Realizing that would probably take away at least half of the detractor's arguments against Objectivism. It does lend itself to Rand's belief that objective reality exists independent of any person or of their feelings or wishes, and that reason is the means of effectively perceiving reality.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 148
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Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/6/2011 4:35:49 AM
I suspect part of the reason Rand gets misunderstood, is a result of the intense, almost child-like earnestness that she released in her arguments. The Galt speech is a classic example, in that it sounds VERY high-handed, and over the top, while trying to make hard points about respect for ALL individuals. The "taking the ball and going home" simile is only accurate, if you include that the other kids wanted to USE the ball to break the windows of every kid they didn't like, and not just to play a nice game of soccer or whatever.

I have long suspected that the goal of MOST religious leaderships, like most of the "well meaning" dictators, is to try to TAKE A SHORTCUT to paradise. Telling the world of individuals that they must EACH learn to think for themselves, that they must learn all about the world around them to do so, and that they can NOT just jump straight into heavenly approval, isn't a short-term success plan.

This is what gives me patience in dealing with the religious zealots who want me, and everyone else, to put them in charge, and follow their interpretation of a god's desires. MOST of them earnestly believe that the world will be improved tremendously, if everyone is forced to pretend to tow the religious line. One of the things Rand and I agree on, is that it actually DEFEATS the religion itself, to force people to follow it.

In a somewhat similar way, the portion of the GOP that is trying to destroy Unions, is actually working to sabotage the very free market that they THINK they are arguing for. They think that a "free" market, is one controlled entirely by the business OWNERS. That's a contradiction in terms, all by itself.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 149
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/6/2011 5:15:52 AM

In a somewhat similar way, the portion of the GOP that is trying to destroy Unions, is actually working to sabotage the very free market that they THINK they are arguing for. They think that a "free" market, is one controlled entirely by the business OWNERS. That's a contradiction in terms, all by itself.
Im a bit surprised you would actually think that Igor, you're usually very what's the word?? anyways .... I think you would be classified as a intellect type very articulate and what not but in this case I think you're misunderstanding Capitalism and what even Rand is standing for.

You mentioned the GOP, these folks are not advocates of Capitalism ,These GOP folks are traitors to capitalism and they are running the plays of Social Democrat playbook: if it moves, tax it; if it keeps moving, regulate it; if it stops moving, subsidize it; and if it dies, nationalize it. After eight years of this during the Bush Administration , no wonder the GOP faithful are disillusioned.

The GOP had been in charge of U.S. public policy during the Bush Administration they alone were the ones who made possible the push for socialist finance in America. It was GOP Congressman Spencer Bachus (R-AL), not House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) or Senate Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), who insisted that the bailout package include what have become mandatory government "equity stakes" in the banks.

Anyways back on topic, as in your point of " controlling the free market" that's the furthest from the truth, capitalist dont want control the free market, they want to control their own business be " free" to trade without restriction, the essence of what a " free market" is supposed to be about, not controlling it.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 150
Atlas Shrugged - The Movie (Part 1)
Posted: 5/6/2011 8:24:52 AM
There hasn't been a conservative presidential candidate since Reagan....and he WAS a Democrat until the LINE moved to the left and left him standing on the RIGHT.
I think it's funny that the Democrats hail JFK. JFK's policies TODAY would place him so far to the RIGHT that even the republicans would see him as a whack-job! He tried to take us back to the gold standard and wipe out the Fed Reserve for Gawd sake.

Newt Gingrinch and Alan Keyes are some that would have made good candidates but they where too far RIGHT for even the GOP.
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