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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 420
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?Page 18 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)

That is true until House Speaker John Boehner cuts the feed to hide the crap they are pulling.

Yeah I remember that, yet another stupid display by the Grumpy Old Party. Kind of like turning off the television and sending the kids to their room. There should still be an archive of the web feed but that was just wrong.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 421
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 2/1/2012 12:41:50 PM

Nine companies received grants to build advanced-battery factories from the U.S. government as part of the 2009 Recovery Act. A 10th factory, proposed by a joint venture between Nissan and NEC, is being built with the help of a $1.4 billion federal loan guarantee.

You (and the writer) are mixing apples and oranges. Ener1 received a grant which is different than a loan guarantee. A grant is a gift with no repayment what-so-ever. A loan guarantee is just that, a promise that they will receive a loan which will be (eventually) repaid.

So why didn't you post this little tidbit from your article?

Galves says most of the companies that received funding can afford to wait a few years for the market for lithium-ion car batteries to grow. The exceptions, he says, are Ener1 and A123 Systems. Ener1 is getting help from one of its largest investors, wood pulp mogul Boris Zingarevich, who also bought the automaker Think after it failed last year, and who plans for the company to restart electric-vehicle production.


Like I said earlier, the Government should not be giving grants to companies like Ener1 because they can be funded by private investors. Zingarevich had already invested in the company and they still request a federal grant AND still filed for bankruptcy. Can you justify this as an effective use of taxpayer dollars?


Oh, Man, do I love learning sh.t, especially when I can give the lie to the Obama hating crowd.


This is the problem that comes around when people are driven for answers based on political dogma that is the basis of their ideology instead of first having a ideology and finding representatives that match their ideals the closest. They tend to be completely oblivious of what's actually happening, especially when it's at their own expense.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 422
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 2/1/2012 1:28:03 PM

This is the problem that comes around when people are driven for answers based on political dogma that is the basis of their ideology instead of first having a ideology and finding representatives that match their ideals the closest. They tend to be completely oblivious of what's actually happening, especially when it's at their own expense.

This is from a guy who pretended that Obama "referenced" Ener1 in his SOTU address, then kept reiterating that lie despite having his lie exposed. Karma has run over your dogma.

And, for the record, YOU asked what Obama could be referring to in his speech. That answer was provided to you. I have absolutely no idea why you think changing the subject to the difference between grants and loan guarantees is saving you. You asked a question that you could easily have found the answer to with a simple google search. Obama talked about helping the high tech battery industry. His administration has done that.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 423
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 2/1/2012 3:21:01 PM

And, for the record, YOU asked what Obama could be referring to in his speech.

Only because you didn't seem to know the difference between "referenced" and "mentioned."

I have absolutely no idea why you think changing the subject to the difference between grants and loan guarantees is saving you.

Because I'm talking specifics and people like you reword things and create straw men as a distraction. You do realize that there's a difference between grants and loans or don't you care about specifics?

Obama talked about helping the high tech battery industry. His administration has done that.

The Government helped because it has benefited the military more than any civilian. For the civilian market this type of battery is used primarily in electric cars and most Americans have said "no" to the concept. But perhaps you feel that high tech batteries are what Americans really need right now.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 424
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 2/2/2012 12:22:35 PM

And, for the record, YOU asked what Obama could be referring to in his speech.


Only because you didn't seem to know the difference between "referenced" and "mentioned."


Man, this kind of obtuse argument just for the sake argument reminds me of those days in middle school. Some of those kids were very stubborn, unwilling to let go of their ignorance.

For the record:
--CMonster said that the President "referenced Ener1" in his SOTU speech.

--I, Imported_labor said that the president "didn't mention" Ener1 in his SOTU speech. Other posters backed my assertion.

--CMonster came back retorting that he "never said that the President 'mentioned'
Ener1 but the president had 'referenced' Ener1," implying that there is a significant diference between the two verbs: to reference and to mention.

-- Imported_labor replied that CMonster needed to consult a college dictionary and learn that "to mention" is the first synonym listed for the verb "to reference."

--Now CMonster is evidencing that he is not willing to learn much. It really wasn't much of a homework load to open a dictionary and eliminate uncertainties about the meaning of words.

So, since CMonster is insisting in his erroneous argument, and to clear the record, can you please show for us the difference between 'to reference' and 'to mention'?



I have absolutely no idea why you think changing the subject to the difference between grants and loan guarantees is saving you.


Because I'm talking specifics and people like you reword things and create straw men as a distraction. You do realize that there's a difference between grants and loans or don't you care about specifics?


To tell you the truth, I understand that there is a difference, but I don't really understand why the government makes distinctions between grants and loans when investing in these emerging technologies. I would be in favor of the government making just one type of investment. Loans would be one way of having some level of protection for the taxpayers investment in private companies. Perhaps a more well informed poster can shed some light here.

But since you say that you are "talking specifics," how about these specifics: The company that received the Department of Energy grants was EnerDel, a subsidiary of Ener1. The grant was for expansion and refurbishing of plants for the production of high efficiency EV batteries. Those investments were made, and the plants are in production and are unaffected by the financial restructuring of Ener1. So, it seems that the President was correct when he 'referenced' the fact that the government had invested in the production of EV batteries and the US was in a position to lead in that field.

Here is the press release from Ener1. Pay attention to the section that I highlighted in bold. You can read the rest of the press release at the link below. Select the press release dated January 26, 2012.


NEW YORK (January 26, 2012) -- Ener1, Inc. (OTC: HEVV) (the “Company”) today announced that it has reached agreement with its primary investors and lenders on a restructuring plan that will significantly reduce its debt and provide up to $81 million to recapitalize the Company to support its long-term business objectives and strategic plan.
To implement this restructuring plan, the Company has voluntarily initiated a “pre-packaged” Chapter 11 case in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of New York, in which it is requesting that the Court confirm a pre-packaged Plan of Reorganization to implement the restructuring. The Company filed a proposed Disclosure Statement and Plan of Reorganization with the Court and anticipates completing the restructuring process in approximately 45 days.

None of the Company’s foreign or domestic subsidiaries has initiated reorganization cases, and they are not expected to be adversely impacted by the legal proceedings. The restructuring plan provides for the continued normal operation of the Company’s subsidiary businesses, including EnerDel, EnerFuel, NanoEner, Emerging Power and Ener1 Korea, all of which will honor their customer commitments and will continue to pay their suppliers for goods and services as usual. The Company’s operating subsidiaries do not plan to reduce employment levels as a direct result of the filing, although they will continue to monitor market conditions and make adjustments to the workforce as appropriate.

The pre-packaged restructuring plan, which has been unanimously accepted by all of Ener1’s impaired creditors, provides for a restructuring of the Company’s long-term debt and the infusion of up to $81 million of equity funding, which will support the continued operation of Ener1’s subsidiaries and help ensure that the restructuring will not adversely impact their employees, customers and suppliers. Of this amount, a new debtor-in-possession (DIP) credit facility of up to $20 million will be available upon Court approval to support working capital needs during the restructuring. The balance, for a total of up to $81 million, will be available over the four years following Court approval of the restructuring plan and subject to the satisfaction of certain terms and conditions.

http://www.ener1.com/?q=content/tr-press-releases

I am really liking this thing about learning specific stuff, all the more because I can keep on giving the lie to the Obama hating crowd.


The Government helped because it has benefited the military more than any civilian.


Why shouldn't the government invest in technology that directly benefits its military? I would say it is a very good reason. Agree?



For the civilian market this type of battery is used primarily in electric cars and most Americans have said "no" to the concept.


Well, if most Americans are like me, the reason why we haven't bought an electric car is because we can't afford it right now. If I had money to spare I would have bought one of those babies for myself, and one for each of the members of my family. I would even have a spare one charging in the garage waiting for me to ride anytime I felt like it. But, being one of the 99% class, soon to be oficially declared a member of the bottom lower class (oh the ironies of life!) because of the limited income, the electric vehicle is currently beyond my means. I don't say "no" because I am against progress or because I am in the pockets of the oil companies. You give me an electric car and I will show you how happy a man can be going around to do some errands without spewing toxic gases into the air.

But perhaps you feel that high tech batteries are what Americans really need right now.


Right now, because of limited production those batteries are still too expensive for the average consumer, just like the original televisions, computers, and any other technological advanced products were when they came into the market. Any effort by the government or private enterprises to bring down the cost of the EV batteries is welcome. The sooner we are all driving electric cars, the better we will all be. The only unhappy campers will be those you want us all buying their bloody oil.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 425
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 2/16/2012 5:15:06 AM
It doesn't matter to what Company he was referring he has already gambled and lost over a Billion dollars on various Companies all your arguing serves no purpose other than to act as a distraction..see the shiny thing?

Trying to create a market where their is no real demand is just plain STUPID...
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 426
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 2/16/2012 7:43:39 AM
No market for alternative fuels? What are YOU smoking? Getting off the oil needle should be this nations number ONE priority. It's literally a matter of National Security.

The first country in the world NOT dependant on fossil fuels would be able to tell them all to pound sand.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 427
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/5/2012 4:35:59 AM

No market for alternative fuels? What are YOU smoking? Getting off the oil needle should be this nations number ONE priority. It's literally a matter of National Security.
At this time alternative fuels are too expensive for the average Joe, why do you think they are raising the tax credit they give for buying a volt to $10,000..the cars are to expensive for the average Joe ....
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 428
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/5/2012 9:57:04 AM
^^
So, by all means, lets ignore them and keep running at full tilt sucking oil out of the ground until it's gone, and THEN invest in alt fuels?

We should have been trying to get off the needle long before now. Alt Fuels are the future, we don't have any choice. Either we lead the way in the process, or we will be left behind sucking hind tit to the country that DOES develop them. You want us to be dependant on that country like we are to Saudi Arabia right now? "

“He who controls the spice controls the universe.”
― Frank Herbert, Dune

I know you love America, Un, so I can't imagine you want us controlled by some other country because of our energy greed and short sighted lack of vision.

Yes, it's worth billions a year in goverment funded research to develop viable alt fuels. Whats MOST important though, is keeping control of those fuels out of the hands of the oil companies.

If the Goverment funds the research (And they're the only ones who can, really), then the results belong to the people, just like the oil taken from public lands SHOULD.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 429
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/5/2012 10:45:45 AM
Is there any proof the georgetowns insurance doesn't cover birth control pills for women who have a condition that require them for treatment?
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 430
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/5/2012 11:01:56 AM

Alt Fuels are the future, we don't have any choice.


I agree 100% with your belief....alternative fuels are the FUTURE. Not the RIGHT_NOW.

The RIGHT_NOW is the Marcellus/Utica shale gas & oil reserves along the Applachian chains. They are the biggest energy discoveries in US history, & they are the game changer. ....a game changer in the fact that we will become an energy exporter, rather than an energy importer. We will be able to fuel ourselves theoretically, & at the same time reduce the deficit, which a large chunk is due to buying oil, natural gas, etc from other countries. Some estimates show 100 years of production. It is happening all around this region.

http://energy.aol.com/2011/10/07/utica-shale-may-be-its-own-energy-game-changer/

This single biggest energy resource will pretty much wipe out any incentive to force government-mandated development of high-cost/low effienciency alt sources for the forseeable future.

Coincidentally, 6 regional coal-fired power plants were recently shut down due to Obama Administration-blessed EPA mandates(fired from domestic coal, not foriegn oil). If it wasnt for this huge natural gas/shale oil discovery, we would have to import even more energy from abroad to retrofit & refire these plants with alternative fuels. They will now fire on this newly-discovered abundant LOCAL natural gas. Talk about a lucky break......

Of course my inbox is filled with bulletins from every environmental & fringe liberal whacko group already drawing battle lines to stop the development of this domestic natural gas energy. They seem to think its far better to buy it from other countries, whlie at the same time being dependent on them.




Either we lead the way in the process, or we will be left behind sucking hind tit to the country that DOES develop them. You want us to be dependant on that country like we are to Saudi Arabia right now? "


Yes. Let THEM develop the technology. Once it becomes widespread public domain, we can simply manfacture the fully developed product. Why do WE have to spend the billions of dollars on this, taking the financial hit for researching, producing & forcibly using a not-nearly-perfected, highly expensive technologically mediocre product - only to have the technology copied, refined & produced by the Chinese??



Alt energy has its own place in time. That time is not now, obviously. It will happen at its own pace - not forced by goverments' & activists' hands.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 431
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/5/2012 2:57:13 PM
You assume they'll SHARE that technology when it's created. Why would they? YOu have a tool that holds the United States over a barrel (An oil barrel at that), and makes them completely beholden to you for energy. You think they'll give that kind of power up? How do you intend to get it if they won't sell it or lease it to us? Attack them and take it? What are you gonna use for fuel?

The time to develop Alt Fuel is before we run out of fossil fuels and have to destroy our environment to scrounge up every tiny bit.

America used to be a technology LEADER in the world. Now it's a joke. We want to be back on top, we need to lead the way in developing Alt Fuels. THAT is American exceptionalism.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 432
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/5/2012 4:05:24 PM
Against McCain?
No.
In the primary against Hillary?
Maybe.
He has proven to be as much an insider as she was ever accused of being.
But on the plus side....he has the better spouse.
:-P
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 433
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/5/2012 5:16:21 PM
"wait, maybe I'm being lied to?"


Amazing. Simply, hilariously, amazing.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 434
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/5/2012 6:01:43 PM
Lady, you post lies, falsehoods and innuendo on a daily basis that have been refuted time and time again. Your usual response is, "I didn't know!" Or, "I was being lied to!" or a variation of the theme.

YOU don't back check diddly, you just glom onto any kind of nonsense that echoes your own personal (and way out there) biases, the more outrageous and improbable the better.

No hint of rational thought, no hint of critical thinking. It's like a form of digital Tourettes.

(Note to Mods, or my usual club of whinging report mad fans; She DID ask for elaboration, I'm obliging.)

I have a low tolerance for BS. I have nearly 20 years of dealing with liars and shall we say, the reality challenged? I know what I see when I see it.

It's past time you realized that A) if you're lucky, most people here are laughing at you for your insanity. B) you are easily duped by other loons on the internet who regularly pull nonsense out of their rectums, and C), you and reality aren't on speaking terms. Or even on waving terms. and D), you are incapable of admitting you're wrong. Even after it's proven you're wrong.

It's ridiculous, and it's tiresome. It's the boy that cried Wolf over and over, while in the middle of the ocean. The sad part is, if you could drag yourself (kicking and screaming, I'm sure), to reality, managed to focus that obvious passion you have (What that passion is for, I'm not real sure, since it's scattering in all directions) into something useful and based on actual facts, you'd be a great debater. I'd honestly like to see that happen.

But until you do, you're going to be the one that people snicker at or laugh out loud at, every time you post another of your tacky Youtube vids, another easily disproven rant you cribbed entirely from someone elses tinfoil site. That can't be fun for anyone, and I can't imagine you enjoy it.

You could do better, D.A. I'd like to see you make the attempt at least.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 435
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/6/2012 4:36:17 AM

Provide proof that I "usually use falsehoods".


It's been done time and again throughout countless threads...seems, you've a short memory too.

And dragging up the default of Jefferson County, due to a default of their sewer bond-which was issued years ago, as something that has to do with President Obama...when, in fact, it has everything to do with President Bush's time in office, is disingenuous in the least.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 436
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/6/2012 8:06:49 AM
Irish, we just call it "Lying" in my neck o the woods.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 437
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/6/2012 9:48:57 AM

America used to be a technology LEADER in the world. Now it's a joke. We want to be back on top, we need to lead the way in developing Alt Fuels. THAT is American exceptionalism.
I agree but that doesnt meant that Obama and other Green Agenda Radicals should force the issue, you guys don't seem to realize costs are not low enough yet for the average person to benefit by any Green Technologies...we should continue developing oil natural gas coal etc....while we are developing alternative fuel ...we should not be pumping billions into companies that keep failing....that money should go to research to create alternative sources of energy at lower costs...
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 438
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/6/2012 9:49:15 AM

America used to be a technology LEADER in the world. Now it's a joke. We want to be back on top, we need to lead the way in developing Alt Fuels. THAT is American exceptionalism.
I agree but that doesnt meant that Obama and other Green Agenda Radicals should force the issue, you guys don't seem to realize costs are not low enough yet for the average person to benefit by any Green Technologies...we should continue developing oil natural gas coal etc....while we are developing alternative fuel ...we should not be pumping billions into companies that keep failing....that money should go to research to create alternative sources of energy at lower costs...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 439
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/6/2012 10:23:33 AM

we should continue developing oil natural gas coal etc....


Despite a temporary slowdown in exploration in the Gulf of Mexico after the BP oil disaster, the number of rigs in American oil fields has quadrupled over three years. There have been new discoveries and the administration has promised to open up more offshore reserves. To say that Mr. Obama has denied industry access is nonsense
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/opinion/drill-baby-drill-redux.html?_r=2
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 440
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/9/2012 12:17:47 PM
^^^ok..for starters look here where you were called out on a variety of lies and BS:

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts14814262.aspx
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 441
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/9/2012 3:07:43 PM
On another note...has anyone noticed the lastest jobs growth??

This year, the economy appears to be somewhat less vulnerable to shocks. There were 1.4 million more jobs in January than there were last April, and they were spread across more industries and more cities.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/business/economy/us-added-227000-jobs-last-month-rate-at-8-3.html
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 442
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/10/2012 8:33:58 AM

One last thing, if would be beneficial to think for oneself, not simply spout "yeah, what he said".


Comedy Gold, right there.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 443
view profile
History
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/10/2012 9:57:32 AM
The house of reperesentatives passed this bill 347 to 3. It is a terrible bill, but do you really think that Obama has a choice to not sign, when it has been passed with overwhelming support? Your problem should be with the house of representatives, and not with the president. I really don't know how someone can't understand this.
In the face of such overwhelming support, If Obama didn't sign, he would be accused of being a dictator, and ignoring the will of the people
I have to wonder if Obama, with his knowledge of constitutional law, is signing in the belief that these laws would not be upheld before the supreme court?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 444
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 3/10/2012 10:04:05 AM
All that was proved in that entire truth suppressing act was that Obama had not been the first POTUS to do exactly what I proved he had done. Minor detail.


It also proves you don't read the responses to your own thread...there were loads of mistruths and lies pointed out to you in that thread that you ignored...it was tinfoil hat time reading about your "Russian" news sources being the truth about American politics.
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