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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?      Home login  
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 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 151
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?Page 7 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)

So you are saying that someone that earns $35k can claim the same benefits and take advantage of the same loopholes as someone that earns 1Milllion plus?

First and foremost, what you are implying as "loopholes" is as much as a loophole as parents being able to deduct their children as dependents. People without children cannot do that. Why don't people consider those deductions "loopholes?" [u]Because it's acceptable under the tax laws![/u]

Can someone who makes $35k a year claim the same benefits? Absolutely. Someone show me in the tax laws where it says that only people who make a certain amount can claim certain deductions. I'll tell you one thing that's in tax law, if you are in a position which is considered a "Highly Qualified Professional" such as a doctor or lawyer, you are automatically taxed at a higher rate no matter how much you make ($35k included). Now is that fair?

Here's an example of how believing the masses can screw someone up. When I was in high school and working part time with some other classmates, we were told that at tax time all we needed to do was a simple 1040-EZ form. It was so easy that anyone could complete it in less than 5 minutes. It was only a page and would be simple enough that even a student could do it.

I on the other hand, decided to complete the standard 1040 and itemized my deductions. I received more back from the IRS than anyone who completed the EZ form. I wouldn't have if I just believed what anyone else thought. We're talking about hard earned money, why leave it to the fate of people who don't have a clue?

Here's another example for you home owners, do you deduct mortgage interest? Apartment dwellers can't do that. Loophole? Anyone take the deductions for home energy improvements? Loophole?

Perhaps the Government should increase everyone's taxes in order to subsidize the ability for people who can't afford a home to be able to buy one and take advantage of the loopholes that home owners have. What if there was a movement that said that anyone who owns a home and has children should pay more taxes since they get more tax breaks than someone living in an apartment without children? Now would that be fair?


Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad

Thanks, I'll take a look.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 152
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 8/18/2011 9:18:08 PM

For to long the ultra rich have been hoarding the cash and not creating jobs thus getting your county into the situation it is now.

The thing is, this is the last thing that the rich would do. They are like banks in that in order for them to gain wealth, they have to take a risk and let other people use their money as a loan. If all they did was sit on it, how would it grow? This is an example of why there is such a gap in wealth, not all people are willing to learn how it works and so some are left behind because they aren't willing to take the type of risks that will actually pay off. They'd rather play it safe and keep their money somewhere earning 2% interest a year. Talk about sitting on their money....
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 153
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 8/21/2011 7:59:33 AM

Someone show me in the tax laws where it says that only people who make a certain amount can claim certain deductions.

Anyone?
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 154
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 8/23/2011 7:33:52 PM

If you want to read the applicable tax law for many of so called "American" companies, you'll have to look under Ireland and Sweden's laws. Let's not act like these companies aren't selling out on their country to avoid paying taxes.

But what does that have to do with the fact that anyone in the US can legally take the same deductions as long as they manage their finances appropriately and submit the applicable paperwork to the government? And what about the disadvantaged unmarried, apartment dwellers who don't have children. Why is it alright for married, homeowners with dependents to get tax breaks while the others can't?
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 155
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 8/24/2011 6:07:07 AM

But what does that have to do with the fact that anyone in the US can legally take the same deductions as long as they manage their finances appropriately and submit the applicable paperwork to the government?

So then how many offshore tax loo-pols do you use?

How many charitable donations did you use to offset your earning on your insurance bonds?


Many of the tax breaks are built around investments, bonds, etc... and last I checked the poor people do not participate in these as it has something to do with the fact they are poor.

So what nets out is someone that does not have the money to save the extra money, ends up spending more of their money on taxes. (by % of income)
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 156
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 8/24/2011 6:13:53 AM

So then how many offshore tax loo-pols do you use?

How many charitable donations did you use to offset your earning on your insurance bonds?


Many of the tax breaks are built around investments, bonds, etc... and last I checked the poor people do not participate in these as it has something to do with the fact they are poor.

So what nets out is someone that does not have the money to save the extra money, ends up spending more of their money on taxes. (by % of income)
Frank, many of these " poor" people as you call them wont use it either because they are afraid of the risk that comes with these breaks, the major difference between the Poor ( I really don't like that term) and the wealthy is risk, successful people looks at these and says " what if it works" the poor looks at the exact scenario and says " what if it doesn't work, and comes up with all excuses"

As you know I live in Canada, and we have loop holes here that I take advantage of too, I don't use the typical RRSP route, but most does.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 157
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 8/24/2011 6:29:13 AM
So then how many offshore tax loo-pols do you use?

I'm not in manufacturing or production so it wouldn't makes sense in my case to offshore. However, investing in foreign currency isn't hurting.

So tell me, do you own a house? Do you deduct your mortgage interest? How about kids? Isn't that around an exemption of $4000 each? Are you enjoying those " loo-pols" as you call them.


How many charitable donations did you use to offset your earning on your insurance bonds?

A bunch mainly because I run a foundation which helps teach children how the financial system works since hardly anyone does that nowadays.

What do you do to make the next generation more productive?


Many of the tax breaks are built around investments, bonds, etc... and last I checked the poor people do not participate in these as it has something to do with the fact they are poor.

It all starts with an starting a business and getting interest bearing savings account or government bond. Anyone can do that. My class of 10 year olds save a portion of their allowance/earnings to put into their own savings account. It's more difficult to get their parents to do it though.

By the way, there are more than enough true stories of people who weren't born wealthy who did well fiscally. They just worked "smarter" than the average person. Look at many of the first generation immigrants who own businesses here. They are a prime example of people who learned what they had to do to get the education necessary to make something for themselves and their children.

So what nets out is someone that does not have the money to save the extra money, ends up spending more of their money on taxes. (by % of income)

Only if you choose to believe the dogma that the average America expounds upon. Those who are willing to do the work to learn how effectively manage their money will have a chance to achieve something more than mediocrity.
 laxref41
Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 158
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 8/24/2011 10:47:12 AM
"By the way, there are more than enough true stories of people who weren't born wealthy who did well fiscally. They just worked "smarter" than the average person. Look at many of the first generation immigrants who own businesses here. They are a prime example of people who learned what they had to do to get the education necessary to make something for themselves and their children."

one can always find other examples but accounting is accounting and accounting is fact... according to the IRS, over the last 30 years (since Reagan), 3% of total wealth has been transferred (in the largest transference of wealth in our nation's history) from the poorest 20% of people to the wealthiest 5% of people. that didn't happen by accident and it didn't happen by the wealthy being smarter... it happened because law was established that provided an advantage.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 159
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 8/24/2011 11:32:10 AM

Congratulations on your own BS.

Not 50% but ~38% of households have zero or negative income tax liability, but they do pay other federal taxes and by share of income is a much higher rate than any other group.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/11/americans-paying-no-taxes/


Congratulations on YOUR own BS.....
...by posting outdated info that is over 3 years old, & was only a hopeful projection of a 2009 estimate & not a real statistic. Nothing like cherry-picking 1 article out of 100 that supports your stance..

Here is a link that was posted 3 WEEKS ago, not 3 years ago. The original poster was right - it IS close to 50%, as he stated.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/07/27/why-do-some-people-pay-no-federal-income-tax/
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 160
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 8/24/2011 12:44:55 PM

one can always find other examples but accounting is accounting and accounting is fact... according to the IRS, over the last 30 years (since Reagan), 3% of total wealth has been transferred (in the largest transference of wealth in our nation's history) from the poorest 20% of people to the wealthiest 5% of people. that didn't happen by accident and it didn't happen by the wealthy being smarter... it happened because law was established that provided an advantage.

Where exactly on irs.gov can this information be found?
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 161
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/1/2011 10:36:26 PM
Are my only choices Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin?

If so, then absolutely. But in 2012, if Obama isn't primaried, I'm writing in Sanders/Grayson.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 162
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/20/2011 7:38:21 AM
New book which supposedly tells about the turmoil within the walls of the current administration. It may be interesting to watch how its delivered, received and disputed.

http://www.businessinsider.com/theres-a-book-coming-out-today-that-has-the-white-house-freaked-out-2011-9
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 163
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/23/2011 9:41:18 AM
Sure , you can vote for Obama again.
You'll probably be seeing more articles like this one:

Solyndra executives plead the 5th

By Steve Hargreaves @CNNMoneyTech September 23, 2011: 12:10 PM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Lawmakers at a hearing on Capitol Hill Friday pledged to press ahead with their investigation into bankrupt solar panel maker Solyndra, despite silence from company executives who invoked the fifth amendment.

"Was all the information they submitted complete, what did they know, and when did they know it," Rep. Cliff Stearns, the Florida republican who heads the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, said during a hearing on the matter. "We will get to the bottom of this."

Solyndra executives Brian Harrison and W.G. Stover were present at the hearing. They maintained no wrongdoing took place at the company, but repeatedly refused to answer any questions on the advice of their attorney.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 164
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/23/2011 9:53:59 AM
Although Im not a American , but from my view from my Canadian lawn chair, he's a lame duck president , I dont think he has a chance of being re elected, unless 400,000 jobs suddenly appear starting September 2011 and the real estate market starts to stabilize and the deficit starts to drop by at least 3% , he has NO chance.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 165
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/23/2011 10:42:29 AM
I would have thought that he probably won't win reelection. If you look at Presidents trying for a second term in the midst of an economic downturn, the record isn't good. Ford, Carter and the first Bush all lost. The Dow plunged 4% yesterday; the Eurozone is in crisis; all the world's finance ministers are warning that we're on the precipice of another recession.

However, all the defeated incumbents I mentioned were running against very charismatic opponents and none of them lost by much. 1976, 1980 and 1992 were all squeakers. The Republican party is flirting with some pretty strange candidates right now. I think the potential voter reach of a Perry or Bachman is too small to win. There's just too much craziness and dangerous radicalism there.
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 166
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/24/2011 8:27:02 AM
Isn't it odd, Obama always railing about the evil Rich, and when it's campaign time he hovers as closely as possible to the biggest M O N E Y !! Soros, now Buffett, maybe Gates will throw in a few nickels too.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 167
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/24/2011 8:59:01 AM

Isn't it odd, Obama always railing about the evil Rich, and when it's campaign time he hovers as closely as possible to the biggest M O N E Y !! Soros, now Buffett, maybe Gates will throw in a few nickels too.


So, what's your point?

Just because he has some friends with money doesn't mean that he sold his conscience for a fistful of dollars, like most of the Republicans that go around screaming : don't tax my friends' money! My rich friends need tax incentives to invest here and to hire unemployed Americans! My rich friends need tax breaks so that they can be richer!

Obama may have rich friends but he isn't a vermin eating from the dung pile like the Republicans do!
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 168
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/24/2011 9:11:45 AM
Well Frankster, maybe Soros DOES like actual Footy, but we both know it all depends on which team he backs...I mean if he's backing say, Arsenal.....
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 169
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/24/2011 10:56:02 AM
"Just because he has some friends with money doesn't mean that he sold his conscience ,,,"

How can a person sell what he never had?
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 170
view profile
History
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/24/2011 11:05:22 AM
^^^^^^^
But taking money that someone else earned and giving it to a bunch of people don't is completely conscionable. Especially when democrats have repeatedly shown that the money gets thrown down a black hole and the only thing that ever changes from any of it is the problems seem to worsen.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 171
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/24/2011 11:54:00 AM

Especially when democrats have repeatedly shown that the money gets thrown down a black hole and the only thing that ever changes from any of it is the problems seem to worsen.

And why should they should care? There's more than enough "rich" people who "should" be tapped into paying an even larger percentage of taxes even though they make less in income [yes, it's true; Buffet admitted to it]. Makes you wonder why less than 20% of Americans believe that they will never become wealthy; what's their incentive?

During a recent Presidential debate a question was asked of one of the panelist as to what makes a person rich, what dollar amount. He refused to answer that question but said that he'd prefer that everyone in the US would use the opportunities which are available to everyone to become wealthy themselves. You don't hear that in much of the political dogma. What a concept, use your own abilities to make your own fortune as opposed to taking something from someone else.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 172
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/24/2011 11:59:47 AM
Unfortunately, the post shows a profound misunderstanding of recent political history:

Economy

Jobs: Since 1960, each of the A Party administrations has delivered higher rates of jobs creation than any of the B Party administrations.

Deficit: Since 1960, the deficit each of the A Party administrations has passed to its successor was lower than the one it inherited, while each of the B Party administrations has increased the deficit. The average yearly deficit under the B Party administrations was 277 percent higher than the average deficit under the A Party.

Productivity: The gross state product of the 20 states that voted for the A Party candidate at least 5 times out of the last 8 elections (let's call them the A states) is 15 percent higher than the other states (the B states).

Household income: The median household income in the A states is 16 percent higher than in the B states.

Poverty: The percentage of persons below the poverty level in the A states is 21 percent lower than in the B states.

Health insurance: The percentage of people without health insurance in the A states is 25 percent lower than in the B states.

Advantage: Party A
Family values

Divorce: The divorce rate of the 20 states who voted for the C Party candidate at least 5 times out of the of last 8 elections (let's call them the C states) is 19 percent lower than the other states (the D states).

Birth to teenagers: The teenage birth rate in the C states is 38 percent lower than in the D states.

Birth to unmarried women: The unmarried women birth rate in the C states is 7 percent lower than in the D states.

Infant mortality: Children born in C states are 24 percent less likely to die before their first birthday than children in D states.

Murder: The murder rate in the C states is 17 percent lower than in the D states.

Rape: The forcible rape rate in the C states is 20 percent lower than in the D states.

Aggravated assault: The aggravated assault rate in the C states is 18 percent lower than in the D states.

Robbery: The robbery rate in the C states is 10 percent higher than in the D states (This is the one exception).

High school dropouts: The dropout rate in the C states is 16 percent lower than in the D states.

College: The college graduation rate in the C states is 16 percent higher than in the D states.

Advantage: Party C

I asked each of my friends to pick the category he or she considers more crucial, and then I showed them the key to the symbols.

That's when I was rewarded with my first success at achieving a crossover vote. To check whether your own preferences align with your vote, turn to Page E10.

The answers

This is the key to the identity of the two political parties analyzed by Yagil Herzberg in "The long view of the other party" on Page E3:

A - The Democratic Party

B - The Republican Party

C - The Democratic Party

D - The Republican Party

Yagil Hertzberg is an engineer who lives in Sunnyvale.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 173
view profile
History
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/24/2011 12:23:19 PM
^^^^

Take the above family values section, apply it to big cities (democrat) vs. rural communities (republican) and I bet you get a much different picture.

Obama, if unseated in 2012, will take care of the economics section. For his term.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 174
view profile
History
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/24/2011 1:41:22 PM

What a concept, use your own abilities to make your own fortune as opposed to taking something from someone else.


Many dems in office are doing just fine with that principal, the money sure isn't getting to where it supoosed to be getting. Nobody ever complains about the Goodwill CEO's paycheck, or the fact that a big lump of the money from those donations are being used to build snazzy new stores in suburbs. But they sure don't want to see a "rich" man who built his own business from the ground up and worked 90 hours+ a week during the first few years enjoy a profit off of it.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 175
If you could do it again: Would you vote for Obama Today?
Posted: 9/24/2011 2:34:10 PM

But they sure don't want to see a "rich" man who built his own business from the ground up and worked 90 hours+ a week during the first few years enjoy a profit off of it.

Wow, it's so easy to win arguments when you get to make up statements to argue against.

Let me try: Republicans want to enslave everyone whose skin is darker than a tortilla chip. Republicans want to charge tolls on roads to anyone making less than 200 k a year. This is easy. So much easier than actually engaging in real dialogue.

Maybe you and I should start our own threads and post ridiculous lies. We'd sure feel superior to those dummies who hold the made up views we rail against.
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