Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > The Greatest World Problems      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 176
view profile
History
The Greatest World ProblemsPage 8 of 26    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26)

^^^ You're still not getting it on the huge hidden externalities that we are paying for that don't show up on your electric bill or at the pump. Saying that CONG is cheaper than solar is like saying that you can save money by dumping your trash into the neighbor's yard instead of paying for removal at the curb. Solar and wind are already far cheaper than king CONG (Coal. Oil. Nukes. Gas) when ALL the hidden costs are factored in.


Now you're just lying. I tried to verify that, but it was hard, considering you pulled it out of your ass. If wind and solar were cheaper, than it would be a viable option for the 3rd world, and people wouldn't be dying over there. They are trying it, and it isn't good enough. They barely have a pot to piss in let alone taxes to pay into subsidies and hidden costs. When you lose the anti corporate attitude and focus on making things better, while still providing the way of life we have, which is possible regardless of what you say. Then I'll listen. The technology is there, and it is getting better, no thanks to you. Again remember, I support research into wind and solar. We need to make it better before it can be taken large scale. Many countries have tried it, and scrapped it. It is just not ready YET.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 177
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 5:40:47 AM
I have a bud in the business of solar who spends about 3/4ths of his time in Haiti and other poor Carribean nations, setting up solar installations for schools, villages and hospitals. He also teaches folks how to make their own solar cookers.

Just because you are too lazy to look deeper into the hidden costs of CONG, does not give you the right to be calling people liars. I think denial is clouding someone's judgement and critical thinking skills. Just what is it you do in the nuclear industry again?

http://www.desmogblog.com/true-cost-coal-half-trillion-dollars-year
"Our comprehensive review finds that the best estimate for the total economically quantifiable costs, based on a conservative weighting of many of the study findings, amount to some $345.3 billion, adding close to 17.8¢/kWh of electricity generated from coal. The low estimate is $175 billion, or over 9¢/kWh, while the true monetizable costs could be as much as the upper bounds of $523.3 billion, adding close to 26.89¢/kWh. These and the more difficult to quantify externalities are borne by the general public."

On nukes full cost accounting..
http://www.ratical.com/radiation/WorldUraniumHearing/PeterBossew.html

Just to build nukes becoming prohibitively expensive, even without including the death tolls, and other externalities.
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2009/07/15/204378/nuclear-power-plant-cost-bombshell-ontario/
Nukes for over $10,000/kWh?
PS..Fukushima is far, far worse than officials are willing to admit.
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html

http://enenews.com/scientific-experts-believe-fukushima-crisis-is-far-worse-than-govts-are-revealing-publicly-equivalent-of-20-nuclear-cores-exposed

Be interesting to see how the Ft. Calhoun and Cooper nuke plants fare in the slow mo tsunami called the Missouri River flood.
http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/columnists/dawn-stover/rising-water-falling-journalism
http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2011/06/two-nebraska-nuclear-plants-partially-submerged-by-missouri-floodwaters/
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 178
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 6:06:23 AM
Congratulations, you have mastered google.
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 179
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 7:00:05 AM
Hey Cheeky, Finally, someone else that is making sense!
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 180
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 7:24:36 AM
This is just my perspective but often times it seems to me that the goal it to utilize the most efficient power generation methods but then transport that generated power on inefficient mediums.

It just seems upside down to me. Worry about squeezing out every single drop of energy production out of the source and ignoring and/or dismissing any less efficient methods

Am I the only one that has noticed the obvious? The electrical grid is growing. The electrical grid has an amazing amount of thermal loss associated with it. I have no hard facts and i doubt any studies would have been done but it would seem logical to assume that the air around any substations and large transmission lines would be hotter since they rely on air cooling. Considering bleed off would also lead me to believe that the air around these are also more electrically charged with static electricity.

Looking into the air waves near these things yields a mess to look at. If you are attempting to use any other form of transmission equipment like radio, wireless data, cell phone communication, etc. the solution to overcome this issue is to just toss more power at it by upping the wattage to overcome the noise.

Sure we attempt to filter out this noise but it just seems backwards to me.

Lessen the noise FIRST and then lower the wattage required for transmission and a greater area can be serviced using the same energy level.

If just for 1 day everyone could SEE what surrounds us every single day i would bet heavy that they would be compelled to act. Tesla could see it. He could also see where it would end up.

If more people would utilize static electricity generators for their power needs I bet the bleed off issues would be addressed in record time since there would be no way for them to calculate how much of their wasted energy you would be consuming by drawing it out of the airwaves.

This thread seems to be morphing into a similar area as the environmentalists one. If they are at war, they are fighting the wrong battles in my opinion. It is called deflection. Deflect the focus off the real issue and offer up an attention focus that is basically immovable. Attacking power generation methods is futile because the power companies have society by the balls basically. With your sack firmly in their hands all they have to do is squeeze a little harder to get your attention and point your focus somewhere else since it would hurt too much to continue getting the squeezing.

Look at it this way for a moment. You are standing on one side of the country and you have to get to the other side of the county. The only road you can use is filled with HUGE potholes big enough to swallow up your whole car. Those potholes are everywhere over the whole stretch of road. You are not allowed to turn to avoid them and must drive as fast as you can.

Now multiply that by a few million making that same trip and it may put it into perspective. Not all of you are gonna make it to the other side of the country. A few million starting the trip will result in only a few thousand or few hundred making it past the gauntlet of the pot holes in the road. Most are going to be lost.

In a simplistic way of looking at it the few million people would be the electrons channeled from a power plant. The other side of the country would be the appliance, light, or any other type of device/technology that is needing to utilize those electrons.

The roadway filled with potholes is the electrical grid.

My whole point is the solution to that problem that is replaying out every single day world wide is NOT to simply send out more electrons into the roadway so that more electrons can reach the final destination.

The obvious solution would be to just fix all the damn potholes in the roadways so less will be lost and more can be utilized at the other end. The end result means either less would need to be produced and/or better utilization of what is already being produced results.

The same electron transfer technology developed at the beginning of the last century is still being utilized even though the technology utilizing that transfer medium has been advancing exponentially ever since.

The greatest world problem?????????

We are not using what we already have correctly. We are a wasteful bunch of people that chooses to put blinders on and ignore the REAL issue so that we can bypass the guilt that would result. I bet if all those lost electrons getting swallowed up in those huge potholes were your people being lost then those potholes would be patched up or the roadway would be closed till a new road could be built that was safer to travel on.

Just my observations...
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 181
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 7:29:39 AM
I actually read the web link you provided on Nuclear Power, even if we assume that its true, which it isn't. Not even close. I can google 6 links for you that show that debunk that one. But then I'm just as guilty of the same bullshit you are propagating. Not going to have this circle jerk. You need to look at all sides, not just the one that supports your tree hugger mandate.

But even if we did assume that those links were true. Wind and Solar are already the cause of more deaths world wide than nuclear power. That is an astonishing fact considering nuclear generates a lot more power world wide. And it is a fact. Look up hard numbers. Not bullshit projections from green peace cause those have been debunked over and over again. In Chernobyl there was 47 people killed within the immediate time that it happened of a couple of days. The Total death toll right now is 62. according to the UN. That means we can only confirm 15 people died from the after effects of Chernobyl. Which is a pretty far cry, from the 93,000 green peace claims. The environment surrounding Chernobyl is sustainable, and fine, 25 years later. There isn't a mass extinction. What is actually happening over in Chernobyl does not line up with the alarmist claims. The only thing that is an eye opener is the rate increase in cancer of 2%. Here is the thing though, It was easily treatable. Even if Fukishima was twice as bad as Chernobyl, which isn't true either. It will still not kill as many people world wide as Wind and Solar based on hard statistics.

As far as Oil and Coal is concerned. I don't like their use. It has served its purpose to get us this far, but we need to look at other methods absolutely. No argument about that here. I would however, prefer to see developing countries use Oil and Coal instead of starving and dying. But that is just me.
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 182
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 7:53:03 AM
http://www.ratical.com/radiation/WorldUraniumHearing/PeterBossew.html

Please Earthpuppy, break this down by each paragraph, and explain what it means for all of us please. Since you know so much about it. Should be no problem for you.

And while you are at it, please explain to us why several countries have tried incorporating wind and solar energy and have scrapped the project. With no links! Don't post a single link. Just you explain to us why that happened, since you know so much more than the rest of us.

You can justify, and back up anything, if you google it hard enough. I can google several links right now, that have arguments with statistics that show the dominance of the White Race, and other forms of racist propaganda. But just because I can google it, doesn't make it true.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 183
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 11:27:56 AM
Did anyone hear that today announced by Insurance companies, that this has been the most Catastrophic year in recorded history for them?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 184
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 2:47:02 PM
Sorry Jay...The article is pretty self explanatory and easy to read. From what I have read over the years, that one is pretty middle of the road in trying to quantify the true costs of nuclear power. Your figures on the other hand are radically low-balled as if they are bullet points from an employee of the nuclear industry. Can you please tell us the context in which you are so enamoured by nukes? Are you a troll for the Nuke industry? Paid?

The repeated claims that nukes are safer than solar and wind are also without merit or supporting documentation. The lowest figures I have seen from Chernobyl put that death toll at 4,000 while the highest puts it at 960,000 deaths related to the "accident".

As for the "abandonment" of solar and wind power, I would love to see where you get that myth. China has supassed the US in solar and wind investments, the Netherlands and Denmark are heavily investing in wind, Switzerland has banned nukes, with Germany and Italy joining the chorus of those who are ready to put that dead end to rest. Nuke investors already reluctant before Fukushima and Ft. Calhoun, will have a difficult time justifying throwing good money after bad. Wind power is now being used in 82 countries, while investments in wind are growing rapidly. Same with solar. Germany is taking the lead in installed solar annually, hardly a sign that solar is a "failure".

As a nuke professional, perhaps you can shed light on the media blackout and no fly zones on the unfolding Nebraska nuke plants being flooded.
 *Just Jim*
Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 185
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 4:15:12 PM
And they,Congress[democratic] just pass again to mandate the entenol lobby again...$$$ as it takes 2 dollars to make 1 dollar of their crap.$$$$ lol

They whore the land, with the title of petro=-agi soy/gmo/ folks & they still think to call themselves farmers...wtf $$$$$$
And they hope ,when gas goes to 6 bucks a gal. they can starve the 3rd world countries,cuz money talks,& in feeding US gas tanks!
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 186
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 4:16:17 PM
If it is so self explanatory, then you should have no problem explaining it. That's what I'm getting at. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about, you are just trolling the internet looking for articles that have the ending you like, because you have already decided what you are going to believe anyway without actually looking for any evidence, and then you post it to give off the illusion of intelligence. You can't explain any of it, you just spout off your pre-determined conclusion, and then a link to an article, I don't think you truly understand any of it. Hell you don't even understand the context difference between WEIGH, and WAY. English - Serious Business.

As far as me being payed off by the nuclear industry... I WISH! I would love to work in the nuclear industry, that would be fun shit! Be a lot more fun than sitting in a refrigerated server room, staring at lights, switches, patch panels, and servers while I wait for dumbfounded co-worker to break something. And the job would be much safer.

Accusing me of being "payed off" is just more evidence backing my theory that you are just a nut, who is probably a conspiracy theorist too. 9/11 was an inside job! There was a 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll! The moon landing was staged at Area 51! Reagan's a Robot! Its all on the internet! Look I have articles! RESPECT ME!
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 187
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/17/2011 8:44:09 PM
Jay, perhaps I missed it, but how many people do you claim have lost their lives from wind and solar use?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 188
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 3:48:44 AM
I don't know of any server farm hands who are authorized to handle radioactive fuel rods as Jay claims to have done. Just wondering...
Pay per post trolls.
http://www.alternet.org/media/149197/are_right-wing_libertarian_internet_trolls_getting_paid_to_dumb_down_online_conversations/?page=entire
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 1/4/2011
Msg: 189
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 4:14:10 AM
I have to be me~ that depends on what kind of wind...
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 190
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 6:28:04 AM
Oh look an Internet link

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_18849_6-statistically-full-s2321t-dangers-media-loves-to-hype_p2.html

What this means, is that based on energy produced, you are over 3 times more likely to die in a wind turbine, and over 10 times more likely to die installing solar panels. Based on death toll statistics, and the power they generate.

Keep digging yourself a hole Earthbunny. You look more and more insane by the post.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 191
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 7:50:22 AM
The nextbigfuture stats are cherry picked and do not take into account nuclear construction accidents, off-site childhood cancers, downwind cancers from accidents, mining mortality among workers, etc. The few solar installation deaths are predominately from failure to use prescribe personal fall protection systems and failure to have a work plan laid out in advance. I work in construction trades and recently did work at the Bellefonte Nuke plant site in Hollywood Alabama. While they have never fired up those reactors, built in 1974, they still have dreams that they can fire up these rust buckets by throwing another $5 Billion at them. The TVA worker safety culture has evolved over the years, as has most of the construction industry. The solar panel installation industry has boomed in the past few years, and worker safety training has been inadequate but now being addressed.
Closing down nuke plants reduce infant mortality.
http://www.radiation.org/spotlight/reactorclosings.html
Death rates of uranium mining workers compared to construction workers.

"According to reports by the International Commission for
Radiological Protection (ICRP), work-related deaths in uranium
mines are estimated at between 5, 500 deaths (for radiation
workers @ 3 mSv) to 37, 500 deaths (for radiation workers @
20 mSv) per million workers a year.
This compared with deaths in the manufacturing industry
(estimated at 110 deaths per year per million workers) and the
construction industry (estimated at 164 deaths per million"
workers per year)*.
http://www.icucec.org/files/Risks%20to%20Health%20%20and%20Safety.pdf

And of course, the nextbigfuture stats totally ignore the need to get rid of DU by recycling it into weaponry to distribute the waste around the world with millions due to die from DU exposure.

When there are solar and wind accidents, vast areas and aquifers are not poisoned for tens of thousands of years to come.

Speaking of cred...tell us again in what context you handled nuclear rods.
 robin-hood
Joined: 12/2/2008
Msg: 192
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 7:59:31 AM
EarthPuppy,

In one of your posts you mention that your off the grid. I'm curious as to your installed electric system and capacity ?

Do you operate and store energy in DC current and use inverters on demand ? Is your refrig DC, and to you have a backup generator ?

What do you do heating during winter months or when their is a great deal of cloud cover ?

How about trash disposal ?, and how much can or do you send to recycle ?

----------------------
Here where I live in Southern California I don't use a trash service and probably separate most of my trash into metal, paper & cardboard, plastic, and glass. I'm just lucky to have a recycle place close by that takes these idems. No money involved, I just do it. I still do a dump run about twice a year, and the yearly weight is less than 1500 lbs.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 193
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 8:15:38 AM
Robin-hood..
600 watt system, stored in two 600 ah battery banks. A weeks supply for cloudy weather. House runs on AC via inverter. With music, lights, computer running, still under 100 watts max. Backup generator only run for power tools and pumping water into storage tanks. House runs on 12 volt RV pump. I live on 20 acres but caretake another 60 next to me. More than abundant deadfall heats my house via highly efficient cast iron woodstove. Window orientation allows for max solar gain in winters. Fridge is AC/propane backup. Not a perfect system by any means, but more than adequate when negawatts via efficiency are maximized..

We have curbside recycling our here in the boonies. Precycling, recycling and composting keeps waste down to near zilch, maybe 5o pounds a year.

I bought my panels slightly used for $2.50/watt, just under half price at the time 8 years ago. Now panels are selling for for that price brand new. Investment in the next gen of solar cell tech will drop the price in half again.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/17/dept-of-energy-makes-150m_n_879542.html
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 194
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 8:18:15 AM
DU, consequently, is weakly radioactive and a radiation dose from it would be about 60% of that from purified natural uranium with the same mass.

On average, approximately 90 µg (micrograms) of uranium exists in the human body from normal intakes of water, food and air. About 66% is found in the skeleton, 16% in the liver, 8% in the kidneys and 10% in other tissues.

The behaviour of DU in the body is identical to that of natural uranium.

Spent uranium fuel from nuclear reactors is sometimes reprocessed in plants for natural uranium enrichment. Some reactor-created radioisotopes can consequently contaminate the reprocessing equipment and the DU. Under these conditions another uranium isotope, 236U, may be present in the DU together with very small amounts of the transuranic elements plutonium, americium and neptunium and the fission product technetium-99. However, the additional radiation dose following intake of DU into the human body from these isotopes would be less than 1%

This is all from the World Health Organization Mr. I'm so scared of Nuclear Bombs. Please do actual research. Millions Dying from DU exposure? Are you dense? Radiation is vital to our existence. That Big flaming ball of gas in the sky 93 million miles away called the sun, is just one giant nuclear reactor. Pummeling us with Radiation everyday. And we have this thing called the atmosphere, that helps protect us from most of it. The variations of radiation we get from the sun is greater than the radiation increase we would expect from DU. The amount of radiation increase you are looking at when actually looking at hard statistics from DU is less than the difference between someone who is an outdoorsman, Vs, someone who stays in doors all the time. And that is being generous.
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 195
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 9:27:46 AM
I checked your claims about radiation deaths due to miners of uranium, and aside from that one projection you posted from the ICRP, which is bullshit, and backed by no actual statistics. And one incident decades ago where uranium mining was done irresponsibly in Utah, did I find any incidents of Uranium Miners being killed due to radiation. Now who knows what went on behind the iron curtain. They were never known to have the best practices for a whole lot. And due to the cold war, our information on that is scarce at best. So their methods, may have been responsible for more deaths. I don't know. What I do know is that there is no evidence to back your paranoia.
 robin-hood
Joined: 12/2/2008
Msg: 196
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 10:44:33 AM
EarthPuppy,

So it cost to much to bring electic or water up to the homestead !

What do you do for hot water and cooking ?

I have east coast roots and backed up to those mountains near PA/WV border. I think your winters are more mild than those I experienced, but during those months the days are short and it could go weeks without any decent sunshine. But I do envy your backdoor with nature in that smokey mountain area.

Most of the USA world working and raising a family live in a more metro area with many more restrictions. I would say 1/2+ rent and commute 20+ miles one way to work each day, and live on a marginal monthly budget. Electric power to them is plug it in and pay the bill. Gasoline is where is the cheapest ! Many would never be able to afford a Prius, so they settle for a Ford metro.

Checked your numbers for photovoltaic and most systems (install yourself) with decent grid inverter are about $3 per watt. One needs to add for hardware and any building materials, and any permit and inspection fees. Some utilities and or cities fees gouge the installer sometimes thousands of dollars.

As for nuclear, it can be very safe to generate provided they permit public watch dogs during construction and operation. Disposal of waste is still a problem and today France is shipping much to Russia (Sibera), and who knows how it contained there. Japan another high nuclear electric generation nation does a better job of disposing waste. The waste site even recyles part of the waste back to generation facilities. Nuclear waste will be the vexing problem as more energy is generated this way.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080123a9.html
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/gridtie.html
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 197
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 10:52:26 AM

Some utilities and or cities fees gouge the installer sometimes thousands of dollars.

Which is why instead of giving billionares tax breaks for their oil and coal companies they should be giving the regular the Joe tax breaks for buying and installing solar and wind power in their homes.

Unfortunately what happens is when there is less demand for the power the companies produce the people that either can not afford supplement their energy needs with solar or wind get screwed with higher costs.

That is a cycle that will not be broken until the government takes back control of energy and stops selling it off to private interests.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 198
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 2:13:06 PM
The evidence of uranium mining mortality and disease is quite suffcient to warrant a compensation fund.
http://www.wise-uranium.org/ureca.html
NIOSH concurs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1615135/

DU is relatively stable and benign, until exploded and vaporized into aerosol dust less than 1/1oth of a micron. I personally know a victim of DU poisoning, a former military police officer in Iraq, who exposed daily for months is suffering horribly.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2374
Herberts story
http://www.newint.org/features/2007/11/01/health-reed/
Herbert is also a veteran of the NYPD, an honorable man and definately not a slacker or chickenhawk.
 mousethatroars
Joined: 6/14/2011
Msg: 199
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/18/2011 2:50:25 PM
I have to agree with Ailliss' statement regarding education, particularly as our educational system seems to be geared towards finding gainful future employment for the lowest common denominator rather than teaching people to think. Thinking is hard work, but as long as we substitute dogma for independent thought, nothing is going to change, at least not for the better.
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 200
view profile
History
The Greatest World Problems
Posted: 6/19/2011 7:14:18 AM
Thank god another sane person.
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > The Greatest World Problems