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Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  > Literacy: Is it important to you?      Home login  
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 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 109
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Literacy: Is it important to you?Page 7 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

Consigliori, you've made some good points throughout...thanks for clarifying.

Intelligence - yes, literacy - no. I have many day to day IRL relationships with people I respect, care for and love: wife, children, parents, siblings, secretaries, partners and people in my community. We talk, we act, we love, sometimes we argue. Those relationships are rarely advanced by the written word. They are more often facilitated by oration and deeds.

^^^Here's where I see things differently with respect to what you've written.

I would suggest that oration is facilitated/augmented/advanced by literacy; I simply cannot understand otherwise.

Literacy is more than reading and writing....by not having any other gauge it functions as a baseline of some sort and can be understood from that alone. People checking out my profile would have some understanding of how I'd be in person....in a conversation from the fact that I'm literate.

Having surveyed the POF 'landscape' for years now....'a meaningful conversation' would be absolutely be a s-t-r-e-t-c-h for some on here....

Like you, I would no more be compatible living a life with someone who was literate and void of compassion; but there is also truth in my declaration that I could never envision a life with someone illiterate. We all require more than singular traits. It's always going to be about the mix: How the emotional, intellectual and physical come together.

but I’d like to see folks seek the superlative in each other (a la Jean Merrill) and focus less on the superficial.

^^^I like this, but am not in agreement with your suggestion that literacy is somehow cloistered among the many misguided superficial considerations that people get distracted by....in my opinion it's not.

... although the vetting process consumes your lives now, if you are successful in finding an LTR, you will almost never write to each other.

My last relationship was with a brilliant man I met here. His way of writing engaged me thoroughly and immediately. Reading his emails, stories, quips and general 'sum-ups' of life happening around him, is one of the things I miss the most. He had a unique take on the world. And in contrast to what you've written above about writing not being as important in many day-to-day relationships...we wrote all the time, even if we had just seen each other; it was rare for us not to have that kind of exchange.

Since we were both writers and not grammar nazis...nothing hinged on 'particular correctness' where I think this thread might be a bit 'stuck'. It was more about having another way of knowing and opening up to each other...in this way it was hardly superficial. I definitely felt I understood his mind and soul better because of it. Your point however, that other characteristics are perhaps more 'vital' is not lost on me...I get it.

Finally, I don't know about you, but because of email I find that I'm constantly writing... namely, to the very people you suggest that you don't write to...child included! Pre-internet...I would agree with you--not so much.

edited

 Red Fish GF
Joined: 12/3/2009
Msg: 110
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/2/2011 3:43:18 PM

His way of writing engaged me thoroughly and immediately. Reading his emails, stories, quips and general 'sum-ups' of life happening around him, is one of the things I miss the most. He had a unique take on the world. And in contrast to what you've written above about writing not being as important in many day-to-day relationships...we wrote all the time, even if we had just seen each other; it was rare for us not to have that kind of exchange.



Being that we live 2 hours apart and phone calls sometimes catch each other at an inconvenient time, my SO and I still do a lot of emailing. One of the first things that made me want to meet him was his well written emails despite having some errors in grammar and spelling on his profile.
 albinosquirlz
Joined: 3/28/2010
Msg: 111
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/2/2011 5:50:10 PM

Literacy is more than reading and writing....by not having any other gauge it functions as a baseline of some sort and can be understood from that alone. People checking out my profile would have some understanding of how I'd be in person....in a conversation from the fact that I'm literate.


I would agree, but I think you are overestimating the importance of literacy beyond its basic superficiality as an attractor/detractor.

Being literate, in and of itself, has no bearing on your personality. It's "WHAT" you say with this acceptable level of literacy that is going to reveal your personality and make all the difference...not how "WELL" you said it. Literacy, like a nice face, or a great set of tits, will get your foot in the door...that's it (and I would hazard a guess that more women opt for boob jobs than PHD's to attract men).

In the case of on-line dating, it can be both an advantage and a disadvantage. The visuals will probably play the biggest role, but the written profile will usually be the deciding factor.

The advantage is...you can edit it. You can make yourself sound as good as you possibly can, and you can take as much time and effort as you want to perfect it. You can cultivate whatever image you want for yourself...doesn't matter how accurate it is to the real you. In live, real life circumstances, there is no editing.

The disadvantage is...living up to this on-line profile in real life.

Go ahead and try to be as cerebral as you like...and downplay your evolutionary programming as much as you like (and most people don't know which one is doing the talking). But just remember one thing....

Every single bat-shit crazy person on the planet is on the internet dating sites (and chat forums). And they've worked hard to make their profiles not reflect that. And to make matters worse...some of them have a great set of tits.
 Red Fish GF
Joined: 12/3/2009
Msg: 112
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/3/2011 1:19:06 PM
Consigliori


By “well written” you mean that his e-mails contained quality content, were relevant, well organized, responsive and had a recognizable purpose although there may have been spelling and grammatical errors, correct? That’s a great example of what I’m talking about - smart guy, caring guy, lots of likeable qualities (my assumption - or why would Red Fish be with him?), but doesn’t put much emphasis on spelling or grammar. Red Fish looks past it because it simply isn’t as important as the other - and good on her.



Yes, his messages were well thought out and not just a couple sentences that could of been copied and pasted. He had a spelling error on his profile but most of his mistakes are typos from writing in a hurry or using a phone, not true errors because he isn't smart enough. He is an engineer. Typos such as the word loose for lose, he does that on occasion. My sister is definitely smart too, she's an accountant but still gets since and sense mixed up which I tease her for. Not that my writing is perfect either, I just have a habit of proof reading most of the time. Thank goodness for spell check.lol All of your assumptions are true.


I graduated college with honors so I consider myself somewhat smart but my SO sometimes uses words I have never heard of. Instead of it bothering me I just use the opportunity to learn a new word.



"Don't use big words in front of me!" After awhile, that tends to grate on my last nerve especially if he's close to my age and has had the same opportunities on obtaining an education as I have.

 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 113
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/3/2011 2:12:53 PM

Hmmm. Alright, I’ll give you that - marginally. I speak publicly for my job. Literacy does augment the end result in my case (I know others in my profession who do not fit that mold), but again there are more important qualities than literacy when it comes to oration: reason, order, confidence, elocution, and for me - a heck of a lot of practice.

I don't know where you're got those weird notions of what is meant by literacy, but being literate necessarily includes reasoning, putting ideas in proper order word, a lot of practice and elocution in the sense that one can deliberately use poor grammar, mixed metaphors, incorrect words and so on as literary devices to give someone a mental image of what you are like in person. Even self confidence will come through in what a person writes. There is no need to tell someone you are self-confident or even mention it to convey that about yourself in what you write. The same goes for many of those things you seem to think are impossible to express through writing. It's impossible to NOT convey those things in what you write, no matter what you acually wrote.

A person can write sentences that describe him/herself as self-confident, witty, honest, fun, and anything else he/she wants someone to believe, but if what that person writes is boring, contains no trace of his/her personality, has a hostile tone to it, whatever, I'm going to reach a different conclusion than the one the author was hoping I'd reach.

Saying that those qualities are ``more important qualities than literacy,'' is like saying the the landing gear, the wings, the cabin and the engines are more important than plane. It makes no sense to equate the plane with the rivets that hold the pieces together while considering the pieces to be something else entirely.

By “well written” you mean that his e-mails contained quality content, were relevant, well organized, responsive and had a recognizable purpose although there may have been spelling and grammatical errors, correct? That’s a great example of what I’m talking about - smart guy, caring guy, lots of likeable qualities

It's more like an example of what you were trying to avoid talking about when you posted those replies I called non-sequiturs. I didn't address those comments precisely because you limited the scope of what you considered literacy to exclude the actual content and create two meaningless choices. So no. That is not what you were talking about.
 charlie_girl_2
Joined: 1/2/2010
Msg: 114
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/4/2011 4:26:44 AM
Yes, I have to say that it is, but I have learned not to be fooled by online "perfection".
With one 55 yr old man I connected with, I was blown-away by his near perfect profile and all of his mail to me was equally awesome, compared to much of the dreaded "text-speak" I usually receive. It wasn't until we met, that he confessed that his older sister, in another state, not only wrote his profile but all his emails to me!!!! He didn't even have a computer! She would phone him of what was being corresponded and they would discuss next action. As it turns out, he could hardly put two sentences together. Perhaps he did have a health issue, I don't know, but he certainly knew how to fool women online.

Like many of the other areas we can be disappointed in when first meeting face-to-face, unknowingly writing to someone other than the one we're interested in, certainly makes this whole idea of literacy on a dating site a moot point.

 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 115
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/4/2011 7:04:25 AM

He'd never heard of dyslexia, was interested and relieved to find out what *it* was. . . . He *loved* this joke: The dyslexic insomniac agnostic stays up all night wondering if there is a Dog.


Your story is very refreshing, from the part that you indicate that YOU thank the spell checker, to this little tid bit about this person. I am also dyslexic. But instead of being considered dumb in school, they thought I was lazy because I could not learn to spell correctly. I could recite you the history of the US, but could not even memorize a date.
It wasn't until the computer came about that I was able to overcome that. Even to this day I have problems, I do not know my left from right, in and on, vertical and horizontal. I have developed cheat sheets to overcome most of this things. But they are cheat sheets.

So thanks for sharing that story.
 Molly Maude
Joined: 9/11/2008
Msg: 116
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/7/2011 3:32:24 PM
re Outmind's post #174 comment:

our "flaws" inspire us to become creative! in school, I was constantly admonished for not living up to my potential!

the inability to "get" that whole "left vs. right" thing is an annoying "flaw" I share ... I've come up with tricks or games to make those sorts of things that make perfectly good sense to others ... work for me ...

e.g. ... I'm right handed ... about 3rd grade or so, a teacher told me that I write with my right hand ... and the other hand is "left" over ... I think that was the first stepping stone that showed me how to handle my "handicaps!" ...

numbers escape me ... and yet I worked as the Accounts Manager for a firm for 11 years ... tricks, magic, mirrors and illusions ... to overcome our "flaws!"

maybe "literacy" isn't as important as the creativity to allow us to achieve successes ...
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 117
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/7/2011 11:20:58 PM

while I was reading this, I was intermittently also getting PoF "e-mail" messages from a man who lived nearby, seemed relatively inarticulate, complaining that all he meets in here are liars and game-players ...

thinking it could just be that he lacks typing skills, I responded ... about the 4th e-mail, he finally gave me his # and, against my better judgement but not wanting to look like a snob, I called his # ... and got his voice mail!

so, even if it IS that he's incapable of communicating by e-mail due to his limited typing skills ... he's ALSO incapable of answering his phone!

too funny ... a game player! who complains about game-players! too funny ... pathetic but funny ...

give me an articulate man who communicates on a level I understand and who doesn't complain about my vocabulary ...

Could be his internet connection was dial up and blocked his phone while online.
I suggest get his address, go and visit.
You'll probably find him typing out his voice responses on a keyboard using his nose
 GerberData
Joined: 9/30/2008
Msg: 118
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/12/2011 10:07:27 PM
Education is broken in the US anyway. Sure, every job now (including Walmart greeter) requires at least a Bachelor's Degree. Funny thing is, they often don't care if its in science, arts, languages or Smurf Stuffing!

I'll take a warm personality over grammar skills anyday!
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 119
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/13/2011 7:34:42 AM

I called his # ... and got his voice mail!


Did you leave a message? If not, don't expect a call back.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 120
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/15/2011 6:23:08 PM
Today you need a 4 year college degree just to be a police officer. The reason is this..... you are supposed to be able to communicate sufficiently with average citizens. Now that sounds demeaning. All those Psychology courses are necessary to talk to another human being. Weird.
 platypus_man
Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 121
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/22/2011 9:50:13 AM

It's a bit more complicated than that. Ideally, obtaining a college degree is about developing higher level critical thinking skills as well as obtaining more knowledge, and, hopefully, gives one a broader view of life. A well educated, well read person would, ideally again, have a more complex understanding of the human condition, of their fellow human beings, have more effective reasoning skills, etc. This doesn't mean that some people are not self educated: many are. But, you can't count on it, thus the necessity for a college degree as at least an attempt to have a police force of educated and thoughtful men and women.

Of course, we must also remember that simply having some random college degree doesn't mean you're not an a$$h0le as well. It may just mean you're educated with lots of factual knowledge, and can spit back what the professor taught you exactly the way he wants you to. Problem solving and critical analysis isn't in every curriculum. If you're a moron and can memorize things, you can still get a college degree. Conventional education does not always equal smart, nor does lack of the same necessarily result in the opposite. We really have far too many education snobs out there.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 122
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/22/2011 10:17:24 AM

Of course, we must also remember that simply having some random college degree doesn't mean you're not an a$$h0le as well. It may just mean you're educated with lots of factual knowledge, and can spit back what the professor taught you exactly the way he wants you to. Problem solving and critical analysis isn't in every curriculum. If you're a moron and can memorize things, you can still get a college degree. Conventional education does not always equal smart, nor does lack of the same necessarily result in the opposite. We really have far too many education snobs out there.

IME, mostly it means that someone who has actually finished college has demonstrated that they can finish something they started. Doesn't always matter what the degree is in, it's the ability to stick to it that matters.
 tinkerbellcgy
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 123
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/22/2011 10:43:38 AM

Of course, we must also remember that simply having some random college degree doesn't mean you're not an a$$h0le as well. It may just mean you're educated with lots of factual knowledge, and can spit back what the professor taught you exactly the way he wants you to. Problem solving and critical analysis isn't in every curriculum. If you're a moron and can memorize things, you can still get a college degree. Conventional education does not always equal smart, nor does lack of the same necessarily result in the opposite. We really have far too many education snobs out there.


I'm not sure when it was that you last looked for employment but in today's world, employers often stipulate that they require a BA for jobs such as a file clerk or a receptionist or office services personnel (i.e. one whose job is to photocopy, order and stock supply shelves and to make coffee and keep the office kitchens clean). Does someone with a Degree make better coffee than someone who has a high school education? I have been seeking employment for quite a while now and have been subjected to all and sundry job postings. In doing so, I'm seeing employers demanding this type of education for these types of jobs. A tad overkill, isn't it?
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 124
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 5/22/2011 12:44:37 PM
Being book smart and having a degree is one thing, but you need to be life savvy as well. I found having both worked well for me.
 twotru
Joined: 1/22/2010
Msg: 125
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 12/24/2011 5:23:06 PM
I tend to be attracted to Hispanic men so poor sentence structure can be there when English is not the native language. I judge more off their ability to communicate in person, etc, than written emails.
 WillowWolf17
Joined: 2/13/2011
Msg: 126
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 12/24/2011 5:58:32 PM
I get a lot of messages from guys who can't string sentences together. I don't mind the text speak, but if you can't even put together a sentence, that's kind of a turn off.

I don't care if you read books for pleasure or not, because that isn't for everyone. But at least learn how to put together a coherent sentence. I get people who write me a bunch of sentences that don't make sense, and then I feel foolish having to ask what it says. And it's not even online, it's in their text messages too, where they don't make sense.

I feel that if you are going to make a girl interested, then you should at least try to sound intelligent on your first contact with the girl. But that's just me.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 127
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 12/24/2011 7:27:52 PM

If you think 'Twilight' qualifies you as being literate - well yes, you can read; congratulations. Literature - it isn't.


Of course it is literature: it might never be canonized, but it is still literature.


Luckily the standard of education abroad is such that reading the classics is still taught, still required, and still just as vigorously debated and investigated.


You mean the canon of books written by old white men and chosen and approved by old white men?

Literature is not static, and requiring students in the modern world to read Dostoevsky and Tolstoy is really of little value--and I speak not only as a bibliophile, but as a teacher of literature and writing. While those tomes speak of the "human condition," the world is different than it was back then, and the modern student benefits more from reading something to which he/she can relate more easily. English majors need to read a wider variety, but students in other majors do not need to read ponderous Russian novels.

My students take literature classes because they are interested in literature, not because they are required to do so. Some of them will go on to take world lit and specific classes in genres and cultures because they want to do so--and therein lies the difference.

My MA thesis is partly on Mary Shelley's Frankenstein; twenty years ago, this novel would not have been taught in a college class because it was not a "classic."

I am sure that I have posted on this thread before and yup, literacy is important to me--but I am an English teacher.
 twotru
Joined: 1/22/2010
Msg: 128
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Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 12/24/2011 8:15:16 PM
I agree Gwen! Speaking as an avid reader who loved her English teachers back in the day :)

Also, the old white men are simply not as fun and interesting as, say, a middle aged smokin' hot Spanish or Mexican man. Those old white guys can keep their canons they so approve of, I got other better to do.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 129
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 12/25/2011 6:34:28 AM

Those old white guys can keep their canons they so approve of, I got other better to do.


This made me laugh.


when the government in DC wants to plagerize and idolize Marx - the old works best be dusted off and paid attention to - failure to do so ... well we are all enjoying the consequences of that ; aren't we.
(And since they like Lenin too, it gets worse before it gets better)
You may think it is irrelevant - pity the dunderheads writing policy don't.
Want to know where it is headed, how it ends ? Lenin 'What is to be Done' is instructive Mandelstam - is a glaring warning of what is coming down the pike.
Those that fail to read the history, and literature of the past - get to enjoy the folly of their naivete ; and usually in large numbers.


Students are required to take history classes--again, they don't need to read ponderous Russian novels. There are factual accounts of historical events, eh?

My son just finished a political science class (required). He said while he didn't overwhelmingly enjoy the class, he learned a lot. He was teasing me about taking the final for him, and I replied that it had been decades since I had taken my own poly sci class. He began to cover the study questions and I was able to answer all of them. He said, "Well, you could take the final and ace it."

My years of experience and reading a wide VARIETY of literature, mostly nonfiction, gave me the understanding that I have.

I read Gone with the Wind several times and it gave me one biased slant on the Civil War, but in order to truly understand the era, I need(ed) to read nonfictional accounts of the time period--both concurrent and later analyses by experts removed by time from the action.

To understand any piece of literature, the reader needs to understand the time period and influences (personal and cultural) on the author. ****ns is better understood by knowing that his father was sentences to debtor's prison; knowing the societal standards and historical context any work is necessary.


You may think it is irrelevant - pity the dunderheads writing policy don't.


I see--the policy makers need to read Russian FICTION. I pity the person in Transylvania who reads the aforementioned novel by Margaret Mitchell and subsequently thinks that he/she has a total understanding of the Civil War.
 Jason B
Joined: 2/7/2006
Msg: 130
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 12/28/2011 8:23:45 AM
Many qualities are important to me, but I'm not perfect...who am I to judge?
 muse1969
Joined: 12/2/2010
Msg: 131
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History
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 12/29/2011 1:11:57 PM
I prefer to understand what I am being messaged, It’s bad enough I have to decipher what my daughter is conveying when she text. As an adult please keep it clear.
 Lars123
Joined: 6/30/2011
Msg: 132
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 12/30/2011 7:00:02 PM
It would bother me if there grammar was so lousy that their was no way to decipher it. But that's they're problem, they have to go through life with that.

Maybe your being too picky. But that's you're right.

But than they're may come a time when you realize anything's better then nasty emails.

 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 133
Literacy: Is it important to you?
Posted: 12/30/2011 7:51:56 PM
Mysitque 305. Don't apologize for wanting someone with intelligence, I look for that too.
However, I will say that people aren't always thinking about being grammatically correct when they make their profiles.
Not to brag, but at my best, I could edit profiles if I wanted to, but I don't want to.
Don't overlook a gem because you are looking for flaw's. ;)
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