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 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 29
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Disproving the existence of a godPage 2 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
I don't want religion mixed in with my politics either. There are many very good reasons for the separation of church and state.

But you don't have to look very far to see that the atheists go way beyond that position. That may be "one of the reasons", but it doesn't explain the absolute contempt and antaganism repeatedly displayed towards anyone who professes to have a personal belief in God(s).
 jackfouru
Joined: 9/10/2010
Msg: 30
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/25/2011 2:34:07 PM
Well then Cheshire, why even have a funeral. Why not just have had a private service of sorts for your immediate family members? After all, it wasn't only for YOU, but everybody who honored your father with their presence. Perhaps many of them would have felt comforted by thoughts of heaven. And yet you were so riled up, you almost walked out of your own Father's funeral. It is clear you are dealing with some real issues here in your head. You can not let bygones be bygone. You have to have YOUR WAY. That’s what we mean by saying some atheists feel the need to shove their beliefs down everybody else’s throats. Your own post is supportive of that, and you don’t even get it.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 31
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/25/2011 2:41:53 PM
My understanding of the post was that a secular service was requested and agreed to.

It was the pastor who injected elements that were unwelcome. Cheshire wasn't ramming beliefs down anyone's throats. The absence of religious themes wouldn't be offensive to anyone.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 32
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History
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/25/2011 3:13:39 PM
Jackforyou's post IS an excellent example of exactly what Cheshire was saying: that too many believers, used to hundreds of years in the catbird seat, imagine that anyone who dares to LEAVE OUT their religion, are attacking them.
It reminds me of the many times I've witnessed PRO belief people fantasizing that they are still the tiny group that the Romans put to death by lion attack in the Colosseum, still pretending that they are struggling against tremendous assaults by the powerful, when actually they outnumber their "attackers" by a large margin, and have since Roman Emperor Constantine put THEIR religion in charge of the Empire.
This is very pertinent to this particular thread, because it IS a big reason why some people invest so much in trying to disprove the existence of God (at least as it/he/they/she/etc is described by the powerful believer corps): self defense.
 jackfouru
Joined: 9/10/2010
Msg: 33
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/25/2011 3:32:28 PM
Wrong Igor, because (1) I am totally against Organized religion and do not believe in a Personal God and (2), I have been agnostic almost all of my life until very recently, partly due to some of the offensive behavior of atheists on this board. My post is evidence that I see two sides to the equation, and I see a person trying to shut down a religious, but secular sermon (I am guessing), that would have been comforting to those who believe or somewhat believe but for some reasin an atheist found offensive. This inability for Atheists to live or let live is appalling. Even in my agnostic days, I was offended by those who brought lawsuits complaining about things like God in the Pledge of Allegiance. I mean, Atheists go all out in their war against religion. Its kind of sad. And, if you don't want religion in a sermon, don't hire a Pastor who believes in God.


My understanding of the post was that a secular service was requested and agreed to.


My guess is the Pastor promised to tone it down, and he apparently did. but you know, asking a Pastor NOT to say something about God at a funeral is kind of ridiculous don't you think?
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 34
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History
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/25/2011 6:58:37 PM

This is the type of disrespect that non-believers have tolerated for a long time now. People who complain about atheists pushing back are very much like playground bullies who have had their way for a long time, and suddenly cry "victim" when the victimized turn on them.


She was completely in the wrong, and I am sorry to your family for her insensitivity. Non believers & believers alike are disrespected; disrespect of others is not likely a component of either theism or atheism, rather an individual quality. Being particularly sensitive due to one's feelings about whether or nor God exists may cause someone to see things slightly askew, from what I can see here. It is true that displaying a cross (ex. a necklace on a teacher) is discouraged. At the same time, we have a "push for civil rights" which allows our children to display their "colors" if they are so inclined. Perhaps the backlash of those who do believe in a God is a response to that, rather than what you seem to see as need to "Ram religion" down your throat. It would seem to me that we are focusing on what should be less important, at least when it comes to education in the public schools. When all children can feel safe at school, express their opinions & beliefs without fear of retribution, then we can begin to discuss how "unsafe" it might be to keep "In God We Trust". When all is said & done, there is a difference between tolerance & promotion; both sides cross the line equally.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 35
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/26/2011 4:51:29 AM
The need to try to disprove the existence of a god fascinates me, and I don't understand why one would be compelled to try to do so.

because people become excited by their own thoughts and feel compelled to voice them. how thoroughly they're willing to indulge the urge is the only variable in the equation.


I have no interest in trying to disprove beliefs that differ from my own, so I guess I just can't relate.

that's because you have other thoughts that excite you more, you really can't be bothered with this "disproving the existence of god" stuff.

my own thoughts are along these lines... there are elements of the debate i enjoy and it's interesting to see how other people think, but let's not pretend we're going to change anybody's mind.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 37
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/26/2011 8:18:35 AM
Aside from the reasons given by others with respect the ten commandments and other cultures...

Yes, how loony for someone to believe that we should not kill,

Well, one might at least consider it weird for the government to embrace that particular commandment AND capital punishment (unless there's a footnote in the commandments that lists exceptions).

a commandment against coveting our neighbor's belongings?

Strangely enough, there is no law against coveting another's belongings, wife, or anything else. The law doesn't step in until you actually take your neighbor's belongings.

Why, that's just socialist!

I guess that's covered in the missing 11th commandment.

It is grounds for civil action (ie., divorce) in many US states. You are essentially breaking a licensed contract.

That one is non-starter, since every state in the US now has at least some form of no fault divorce, i.e., one does not need grounds to file for divorce. Precisely what ``licensed contract'' is being broken? Aside from some individual pre-nupital contracts (I'm assuming some of those exist), I don't know of anyone who has signed a contract to get married, much less one that spells out spousal obligations. About the only thing a marriage license requires is a fee.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 38
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/26/2011 10:12:17 AM
I stumbled across this 10 min clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xwZt8ypufE

It's a pretty powerfully acted and written scene from a movie I've never heard of. It does raise issues that every religious person has to face at some point. And, on topic, shows why some people are moved to argue against theism.
 CallmeKen
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 39
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/26/2011 7:14:54 PM

you have no reason to push for the TC's to be put onto the governments' (i.e. all peoples) property.

A certain recent Democratic President's second term may have ended in a much better note if there were a few more "Thou shalt not commit adultery" signs posted around the White House.

Now tell me that Vice President Gore's election bid was not negatively affected by Clinton's failure to keep the Presidential trousers zipped. Unless, of course, you thought that W. Bush' term was for the best.

By the way, the government's property is NOT the people's property. If you think that, demand to go wandering around a nuclear missile site sometime. Or cross the velvet ropes at the White House. Count the number of steps you get in before the Men with Sunglasses show you the exit.
 sum1reel
Joined: 6/5/2005
Msg: 40
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/27/2011 7:53:26 PM

The need to try to disprove the existence of a god fascinates me, and I don't understand why one would be compelled to try to do so.


because some pple's brain circuitry requires them to accept(as reality) only that which their senses can process....hence, they use all kinds of logical constructs to rule out something that isn't amenable to their stratagem, and thus re-enforcing their own falsely held premises, that says something like: "hey, if God's existence doesn't produce this expected effect...then God clearly can't exist"!
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 41
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History
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/28/2011 5:54:42 AM
You might be interested to know, that recently an atheist remarked to me, that people who were raised atheists, tend to keep shtum on the subject. It tends to only be people who changed to be atheists, who tended to be the ones who went around trying to disprove G-d.

You also might be interested to know, that the same is true of religious people. When I was in Yeshiva, people remarked to me that it people who have been religious for several years, tend to just get on with being religious. It tends to be those who were raised non-religious and became religious, that for the first few years, they would go around trying to convince everyone of the wonder of their new-found religion.

I suspect that on both sides, this is a sign of insecurity, that comes with starting on a new road that you are unsure of, and that with that uncertainty, you keep telling others that you are so sure of your beliefs, because the person you really want to convince, is yourself.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 42
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/28/2011 8:12:30 AM
it's up to the people claiming god exists to prove his existence, it isn't up to nonbelievers to prove god doesn't exist.

no it isn't, what makes you think that? where is this atheist star chamber tribunal demanding that christians prove god exists? it's not their responsibility to change your mind. either you believe in god's existence as a matter of faith, or you don't. simple. nothing new about that. frankly, most christians really don't care about changing the minds of atheists, although in theory i am sure some of them would would like to think they could, but even they see it as a useless argument. christians can't even agree among themselves, otherwise we would only have one religion. they basically just want the freedom of their own beliefs, just like you do.... let's put the baptists over here and the snake-dancing holy rollers over there and the pope in rome, and you can sit there mocking them all, and that's the way it's always been, so let's get on with it.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 43
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/28/2011 8:42:20 AM
the "burden of proof" as a semantic device to put your own philosophical stake in the ground is one thing, but the "burden of proof" as a practical matter doesn't really exist. not only that, it's an impossible task because the burden demands the kind of proof that isn't available.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 44
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/28/2011 12:52:09 PM
The bible tells you that you should go and make converts of non believers, so the claim is correct...you should really prove God exists before you attempt.

how do you propose to prove the unproveable to the unbeliever?



What I am seeing is that it is not the thiests who are trying to convert the athiests, but the athiests are doing all they can to control what the theist says and thinks

i don't know where you can possibly be seeing that, since it's the morons and the gideons and the JWs that go around trying to enforce Mathew 28:19 and Mark 16:15, but i have yet to see the atheists leave madalyn murray o'hare or richard dawkins tracts laying around like a subtle hint.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 45
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/28/2011 5:18:44 PM

Maybe something along the lines of:

"Your results may vary. Be advised that all claims for the existence of a creator, god or gods is a matter of faith and no proof of any claims for the existence of said creator, god or gods ( or claims to know what said creator, god or gods wishes of his, her, their or it's believers) exists. But don't worry, you'll discover the veracity of these claims after you die. Or conversely you won't discover the veracity of these claims after you die because after you die you don't exist in any form."

I would rather this be printed on the front cover of every religious book.

WARNING: This a work of fiction. Do NOT TAKE it literally.

CONTENT ADVISORY:

Contains verses descriptive or advocating suicide, incest, bestiality, sadomasochism, sexual activity in a violent context, murder, morbid violence, use of drugs or alcohol, homosexuality, voyeurism, revenge, undermining of authority figures, lawlessness and human rights violations and atrocities.

EXPOSURE WARNING: Exposure to contents for extended periods of time or during formative years in children may cause delusions, hallucinations, decrease cognitive and objective reasoning abilities, and in extreme cases, pathological disorders, hatred, bigotry, violence including but not limited to fanaticism, murder and genocide.” endanger your mental health and life”.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 46
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/28/2011 7:42:49 PM

As far as athiests wanting to put billboards and signs up, I don't know anybody who is trying to stop them, I have never heard of athiests complaining that they were "not allowed" to put their advertisements up. That may be happening in jolly 'ol England, but not here.

It happened in my home town and many others.

The The Freethought Association of Canada (FAC) had to go to court after their ad's where rejected and had to take it to court which is similar to what happened in many US states where they wanted to run the same ads.

Atheist campaign to run ads on Bloomington buses
http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=69107


Cincinnati's Godless Billboard Taken Down
http://cincinnati.unitedcor.org/



Meanwhile, here is something for your viewing pleasure.

Double Standards About Atheists And Christians

Uploaded by DarkMatter2525 on Mar 24, 2011

This video contains some insane things I've heard. You can see how the ridiculousness of these double standards and assumptions glare when I arrange them side by side. Whatever trait you blame on atheism or attribute to religion, I can point to an abundance of examples to the contrary - and the excuses are usually quite laughable and transparent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpz8PMcRJSY&feature=player_embedded#at=211
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 47
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History
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/29/2011 10:18:33 AM
RE Msg: 58 by _alan:
Could be... but generally the big difference between atheists & theists is that atheists don't go door to door asking people if they're atheists & trying to convinve them to become atheists if they aren't, while theists ( I know, not all of them) do go door to door or go up to people on the sidewalk & try to convert them.
1) There are, just like you, LOTS of people, who complain about people accosting them and their families at their door.

But 99% of them are complaining about door-to-door salesmen, because salesmen do NOT take 'no' for an answer. They keep hassling you. A lot of the time, the only way to get them to shut up, is to slam the door in their face.

What really gets people's goat, is all the salesmen who call on old pensioners, and sell them alarm systems they don't need, for thousands of pounds, taking their life savings away from them.

Likewise, people complain all the time about telesales people ringing them up all the time, trying to sell them something. They too will not take 'no' for an answer. You pretty much have to slam the phone down on them to get them to stop.

Many have gone ex-directory just to stop the callers. But you still get a few every week.

Things are so bad, that the UK government even established a number you can ring, that will put you on a list of people who telemarketers are supposed to be denied contact to. I know a few people on that list. They get less calls. But even so, they STILL get hassled by telesales callers.

Missionaries have come to my door, and my friends' door. They are pretty easy to get rid of. They WILL take a firm 'no, I'm not interested' for an answer. They only come by once every few years.

For me to feel offended, that as a Jew, Xians come to my door to try to convert me, would be like me complaining that I have to book an appointment to see my doctor, when many people are dying because they aren't getting the operations they need to save their lives.

2) Even if I wanted to praise myself for not being a missionary, I know that 99% of theists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, even Xians, have never been a missionary, and have no intention of being one, ever. So I would be praising myself for being like 99% of theists. Hardly praiseworthy.

It's nice to know that you don't go door-to-door. But you might as well say that you've never tried to gas 6 million.

3) In the UK, as in most places, your home is your private property. No-one can enter it without your permission, unless they are the police and have a search warrant, or something like that. So it's not really that invasive to say that someone came to your door.

But if I want to avoid coming into contact with atheistic criticisms of religion, then I have to switch off my TV, disconnect myself from the internet, not enter a library or bookshop, and generally shut myself off from many forms of public entertainment and contact. That IS an enfringement of my rights.

So...do I think it's nice to know that you don't go door-to-door selling atheism? Sure. You get a gold star.

But if you come on here, and start criticising everyone else's beliefs, and you keep doing it, then you get a black star, every single time you do it, and that's a LOT of black stars. It also p*sses off all the theists who do not go around missionising, when they see you trying to missionise your beliefs online.

The fact I'm an atheist doen't really come up except in threads such as these, or when I'm approached by theists & they ask me if I've been saved or some such phrase. Most of them will leave me alone & move on once they know I'm an atheist but there are a few that become nuisances since they assume their desire to convert me to their faith trumps my desire that they leave me alone.
Guess what? The fact that I'm a theist doesn't really come up except in threads like these, or when I'm talking to someone who suddenly starts telling me that 'religion is a crutch', or some such thinly veiled insult. I've had that happen OFTEN to me. When they know I'm a theist, they start digging the knife in. If I see them again, they keep on about it. The only way to shut them up, seems to be either to avoid them like they have bubonic plague, or to make them feel so sh*tty about themselves, that they stop harping on about it, just to stop me insulting them.

I really am quite livid about it, because it's happened to me a LOT of times, far more than I've had missionaries come to my door, or approach me any other way.

Personally, I couldn't give 2 whits about your beliefs. But I am up to the eyeballs in atheist insults these days.

Most people I know, who are theists, but who have no interest in converting ANYONE to their beliefs, and support everyone having their own views, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, and theists who dislike organised religion, tell me not to bother talking to atheists, because they will keep telling everyone to 'convert' to atheism, and refuse to accept that anyone else is entitled to their views. Frankly speaking, atheists have a reputation of being SLIGHTLY less problematic than religious terrorists, and I DO mean ONLY slightly.

Don't like it? Well, welcome to reality.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 48
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/29/2011 11:17:32 AM
In terms of the double standard regarding religious v atheist messages:

I heard the guy picked first in the NFL draft this morning (don't remember his name). He invoked God about half a dozen times in the 15 second clip. I have no problem with that; it's his personal belief and it's important to him. I doubt you'll see any whining about it in the media or protests about it.

But, Ricky Gervais makes one comment about being an atheist at the end of an award show he hosted. You'd think he spat in the face of America. The outrage expressed was so completely over the top. This again is important to Mr. Gervais.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 49
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/29/2011 12:31:35 PM
Actually, my point is that there is no downside to being religious. Nobody gets "crapped on" for stating their faith.

But, people do get crapped on for stating their lack of faith.

There are discussions about whether Mitt Romney's LDS faith would impair his chances of winning a general election. There are no discussions about whether an atheist could win, because we all know that would be impossible.

"Atheist" is used as a condemnation in the same way that "jew" used to be thrown around. They say "atheist Hollywood values" in the same way their grandfathers used to say "Jewish Hollywood values."
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 50
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History
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/29/2011 1:44:46 PM
Actually, my point is that there is no downside to being religious. Nobody gets "crapped on" for stating their faith.


Oh...come now. You can't really mean that. Of course they do. Take a look at the "other" thread. You know...the one where the atheists called all believers foolish, fearful and delusional. Do I need more adjectives? Because I'm sure there were a few more in that thread.

And honestly..I never had a negative view of atheists until I started reading the threads in this forum.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 51
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Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/30/2011 6:20:52 AM
It isn't important whether or not we can name atheists or theists who get insulted or persecuted for their stated beliefs. What matters, is whether or not we allow belief or lack of it to be turned into law of the land. That is what those who know and fear persecution are fighting back about.
The problem I have with the CURRENT loudest voices from the theist side is, that they want to pretend that if their beliefs are NOT codified into and supported by the government, that this constitutes an infringement on their freedom to believe. The main thing that seems to set them off, is that from their point of view, to declare that NO ONE can be in charge, is the same as declaring that "No Belief" (i.e. atheism) IS in charge.
They are right about that last, in a strictly LITERAL way, but in order for all of us to have the freedom to believe as we do, we MUST have a non-theist government. Non theist (a-theist) is NOT the same as ANTI-theist. So the theist insistence that it is a persecution or oppression of them NOT to let them use the government of us all to promote their beliefs, is worse than specious: it's downright offensive on their part, and rather thoughtless as well.
It might be interesting to let all of the folks from various religions, who think that religion SHOULD be in charge, get together and have a big conference to see if they could come up with a single form of government that they liked from a religious point of view. My bet, based on the fact that this has been tried over and over again in the past, is that they would only THEN discover that though they hate atheists, that they don't really care for each other all that much either. If they succeeded in getting the things they want here in the U.S., they would very likely realize soon after, that they would now be arguing with OTHER religious people over these things, instead of pointing fingers at the atheists all the time.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 53
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History
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/30/2011 2:23:39 PM
RE Msg: 81 by _alan:

1) There are, just like you, LOTS of people, who complain about people accosting them and their families at their door.

But 99% of them are complaining about door-to-door salesmen, because salesmen do NOT take 'no' for an answer. They keep hassling you. A lot of the time, the only way to get them to shut up, is to slam the door in their face.

What really gets people's goat, is all the salesmen who call on old pensioners, and sell them alarm systems they don't need, for thousands of pounds, taking their life savings away from them.

Likewise, people complain all the time about telesales people ringing them up all the time, trying to sell them something. They too will not take 'no' for an answer. You pretty much have to slam the phone down on them to get them to stop.

Many have gone ex-directory just to stop the callers. But you still get a few every week.
Not sure what any of this has to do with disproving god.
If you read the opening post, which defines the topic, then you can see:
The need to try to disprove the existence of a god fascinates me, and I don't understand why one would be compelled to try to do so. I have no interest in trying to disprove beliefs that differ from my own, so I guess I just can't relate. But given the very nature of faith, the attempt seems futile. One can try to apply science all day, every day, but it's simply nonapplicable. It's analogous to taking out a ruler to "measure" how much someone loves you.
The topic is about why so many atheists feel the need to disprove G-d.

I stated that I thought it was only some atheists do make such arguments, and those atheists who feel such a compulsion, are only compelled, because of the insecurities that are due to their still adjusting to a viewpoint that for them, is rather new.

You stated that at least atheists GENERALLY don't go door-to-door, unlike theists.

I then pointed out that theists GENERALLY don't go door-to-door either, and that if anyone is bothered about door-to-door people, it's door-to-door salesmen, not door-to-door missionaries.

Consequently, your "at least" justification, isn't really a point at all. It's an irrational justification.

Your own claim shows that those atheists who are attempting to make such arguments, are often using irrational arguments, because they are really only arguing to attempt to cover up insecurities, and so are using any argument that can find to bolster their self-beliefs, and not questioning if their views are founded on reason and rational thought at all.


Most of them will leave me alone & move on once they know I'm an atheist but there are a few that become nuisances since they assume their desire to convert me to their faith trumps my desire that they leave me alone.
I like the benefits of living in a democracy with free speech, and that freedom allows these theists to approach me with their message. Most will leave me alone once I state I'm an atheist ( generally as they leave they'll toss out a "God bless you" or something, & I'll accept that in the spirit it's given, it won't offend me, just as someone wishing me a Merry Christmas or Happy Hannukah won't offend me).

It's the few that will persist in wanting to have a dialogue re: God so they can ( in their view) show me the error of my ways that are the problem.
Hang on.

If you believe that free speech allows you to say anything you want, irrespective of how offensive it is to others who do not share your viewpoint, then surely the same applies to them, that free speech allows theists to say anything they want to you, irrespective of how offenisve it is to you who does not share their viewpoint.

If you believe that those theists who hound you, are in the wrong, because they do not show respect for your wishes, then surely, the same applies to you, that you don't have the right to keep trying to prove things that others do not, particularly when it comes across in a way that theists would find disrespectful.

So either you don't have a right to keep harping on about trying to disprove the existence of G-d to others, or those few theists who won't accept your disinterest, and who keep harping on about their beliefs to you, are in the right to do so.

RE Msg: 82 by HalftimeDad:
I heard the guy picked first in the NFL draft this morning (don't remember his name). He invoked God about half a dozen times in the 15 second clip. I have no problem with that; it's his personal belief and it's important to him. I doubt you'll see any whining about it in the media or protests about it.

But, Ricky Gervais makes one comment about being an atheist at the end of an award show he hosted. You'd think he spat in the face of America. The outrage expressed was so completely over the top. This again is important to Mr. Gervais.
I think you'd find that the situation is the other way around in the UK.

I've seen LOADS of famous comedians on UK TV say they are atheists. None of them get heckled for it.

I've seen quite a few comedians on UK TV, ridicule the Bible, and priests, and Muslims as well. They get plenty of laughs from these jokes, and no heckling either.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 54
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History
Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 4/30/2011 3:45:06 PM
Atheism is one of the last widely accepted discriminations tolerated in theist dominated countries. Just look at Obama, who considered to be half Muslim or more by the white racist christian majority, still got elected, whereas an avowed athiest does not stand a chance in hell.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-americans-still-dislike-atheists/2011/02/18/AFqgnwGF_story.html
snip..

A growing body of social science research reveals that atheists, and non-religious people in general, are far from the unsavory beings many assume them to be. On basic questions of morality and human decency — issues such as governmental use of torture, the death penalty, punitive hitting of children, racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, environmental degradation or human rights — the irreligious tend to be more ethical than their religious peers, particularly compared with those who describe themselves as very religious.

Consider that at the societal level, murder rates are far lower in secularized nations such as Japan or Sweden than they are in the much more religious United States, which also has a much greater portion of its population in prison. Even within this country, those states with the highest levels of church attendance, such as Louisiana and Mississippi, have significantly higher murder rates than far less religious states such as Vermont and Oregon.

As individuals, atheists tend to score high on measures of intelligence, especially verbal ability and scientific literacy. They tend to raise their children to solve problems rationally, to make up their own minds when it comes to existential questions and to obey the golden rule. They are more likely to practice safe sex than the strongly religious are, and are less likely to be nationalistic or ethnocentric. They value freedom of thought.

While many studies show that secular Americans don’t fare as well as the religious when it comes to certain indicators of mental health or subjective well-being, new scholarship is showing that the relationships among atheism, theism, and mental health and well-being are complex. After all, Denmark, which is among the least religious countries in the history of the world, consistently rates as the happiest of nations. And studies of apostates — people who were religious but later rejected their religion — report feeling happier, better and liberated in their post-religious lives.

Nontheism isn’t all balloons and ice cream. Some studies suggest that suicide rates are higher among the non-religious. But surveys indicating that religious Americans are better off can be misleading because they include among the non-religious fence-sitters who are as likely to believe in God, whereas atheists who are more convinced are doing about as well as devout believers. On numerous respected measures of societal success — rates of poverty, teenage pregnancy, abortion, sexually transmitted diseases, obesity, drug use and crime, as well as economics — high levels of secularity are consistently correlated with positive outcomes in first-world nations. None of the secular advanced democracies suffers from the combined social ills seen here in Christian America.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
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Disproving the existence of a god
Posted: 5/1/2011 6:00:57 AM
Back to the Original Post launching this, I expect that if one were to examine each atheist who bothered to argue for the NON-existence of a god, that you would find more than one reason.
--Some would simply be responding to their own INTERNAL urge to prove that they are right in their thinking. All kinds of people of all backgrounds exhibit this behavior.

--Some would be responding to a personal situation, where they were called upon to prove themselves, and defend their non-beliefs. A parent who became angry that their child did not accept his or her beliefs in higher beings, a proposed girl or boyfriend who was reticent to link with a non-believer, anything like that might trigger the response. And if the person who triggered the response left before the argument was ready, or the particular nonbeliever was reminded of them by a believer, they might present their argument unrequested to any believer who they faced.

--But I think that the majority of non believers who feel the need to attack belief, are responding to the plethora of theist oriented stuff that surrounds our lives. Here in the U.S., EVERY presidential candidate has thus far been REQUIRED to at least PRETEND to believe in some sort of god. Despite the claim that we separate church and state here, almost EVERY government function includes prayers and allusions to god. The damn MONEY has his name on it. The movies are filled with god references, and though they don't always insist on pushing it in our faces, you wont find any big films that present atheism as being the approved, winning side of a situation.
With ALL of that and more facing non-believers every day, it's no wonder that many of them get the distinct impression that the power is on the other side. You don't have to have someone knocking on your door every day, pushing pamphlets at you, to feel threatened for not believing.
And why are the theists NOT aware of this pressure against the non-believers? For the same reason that men weren't aware that women were being held back for all those years. The same reason people in ANY majority are unaware that the minority feels oppression. Because if you ARE in the majority, your side is being UPHELD all the time, by social habit, and social structures that seem natural to you. If anything, we could have a thread that asked: why are any theists SURPRISED that atheists or anti-theists feel the need to push back?
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