Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 33
view profile
History
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I have a shorter version of my original post to answer this.

Q: What human achievement is worth all the misery we create?

A: The question assumes facts not in evidence, your honor. Therefore it is not a valid question to ask.

Get away from the idea that we HAVE to do these nasty things. Most of them, we don't. They are COINCIDENTAL to our existence.
It isn't a matter of trying to solve an equation of worth. If you look out on the world and see that bad things are being done, the logical response isn't to kill yourself, or destroy all human kind, nor is it to demand justification for horrible things that can HAVE no justification.


The logical response is to JOIN THE REPAIR SQUAD.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 35
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/3/2011 1:02:42 PM
Are you for real? I'll be the first to admit that I have addictions, I consume, I take the flesh from other animals for calories. I'm honest enough to admit that I'm above no one. I mean, did you honestly think I was talking about everyone else but me? Way to misjudge my character.

i wasn't calling your character into question at all!.... i'm sorry that you thought i was... what i meant to do is restate your original remarks in exaggerated terms from a different perspective to emphasize a specific point of my own about the POV you seem to have adopted about "all the misery we create".

let me see if i can elaborate. people are always free to create something miserable or something non-miserable, or they can go on damage control as igor said. either way, the universe just doesn't care.... every state of mind and every kind of experience is available to human beings for the taking. so the misery that other people create for themselves or other people is mostly beyond your personal sphere of direct control. but, you are as free to choose your own direction as they are theirs. therefore, there is no logical reason for you to concern yourself to the point of existential pain with the collective misery of mankind, and it's not even useful. it certainly isn't fun!! complaining about "all the misery we create" will never mitigate the level of misery that people experience in this world. misery is just one price we might pay for our freedom to act and then experience the consequences, but it certainly isn't the only option. so from that perspective, why would you choose anything less than the absolute best and most useful for yourself? that way, you are not only happier and less ill at ease about stuff you can't control, but you are also in a better position to help others. it would be a strategy that's congruent with your own personal sphere of control and influence. everything else you said about "all the misery we create" is just commiserating and shoveling shit against the tide.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 36
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/3/2011 3:55:28 PM

What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?


Misery is rarely the bi-product of human achievements alone. There are different categories of human achievements. Most non-material achievements, like those of the mind, the intellect, the true human achievements, rarely cause misery to anyone, expect perhaps the subject who embarked on attaining them, but not because the achievements are the cause for the misery, but rather the misery is necessary for the achievement(s)... much like visiting the dentist, and putting oneself through more pain in order to become pain free.

Among the many causes for misery, lack of self knowledge, I'd argue, tops the list.

Often we do what we do not to achieve anything, but rather simply to survive, or to amuse ourselves or simply because we're ignorant and stupid.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 37
view profile
History
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/3/2011 9:17:03 PM
I want to confess a minor thing. This thread from the first, reminded me, took me back the the horrible 1970's, when it became fashionable to decry the "bad" aspects of human kind, not as a way to try to steer us to a better way, but only as a way for the people DOING the "decrying" to pretend they were insightful. I was initially taken in by it back then (I was only 17), but finally struggled out of my depression and realized that, making a declaration that humanity was irretrievably evil, was just a fancy way to avoid accepting the responsibility to work in the other direction.
I think it was an expression of frustration at how huge and challenging it was to deal with all that we could see was wrong in the world, and I thought this thread was started for the same basic reason. I REALLY hated the 70's.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 38
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/3/2011 9:37:08 PM

Among the many causes for misery, lack of self knowledge, I'd argue, tops the list.

Often we do what we do not to achieve anything, but rather simply to survive, or to amuse ourselves or simply because we're ignorant and stupid.

I'd agree with that

Therefore
the answer to the OP's question

What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?

Would be knowledge

Meaning real knowledge
Not assumptions
Nor beliefs
Along with knowledge Empathy is a worthwhile achievement

Long way to go and hopefully along time to get there.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 40
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/7/2011 2:34:01 AM

What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?


PLASTIC!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBRquiS1pis
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 41
view profile
History
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/7/2011 9:07:37 AM
One last post on this, and then I promise to leave it alone.

This was originally posted as an equation. On one side is all the misery humans generate, and on the other, all the stuff the OP thinks of as GOOD stuff. He sees an imbalance to the negative side.

I think there's a much more realistic way to look at it all. It is NOT an equation, it is a process. To get to where we want to be, we do lots of things, some that turn out well, others that turn out VERY badly, and lots in between. Everything we go through, good bad or indifferent, COULD be looked at as a "cost" to be held up later against what we gain from it, but that only makes sense if you look at life as a matter of simplistic possibilities.

Life is much more complicated than that. some lessons require a LOT more mistakes than others for us to learn. Obviously, humans as a species have not yet learned to train ALL of us NOT to select out members of our own species to denigrate and blame for all that's bad in the world. We've been indulging in THAT bit of stupidity for all of our time here.

But if we ever DO finally overcome that, it wont make any sense at all to even ask the question "was it worth it?" Some accomplishments, no matter how expensive, are will transcend our existence in ways that make "cost" entirely unimportant.

A better way to think of it is, that BEFORE you accomplished what you did, you thought it would be easy-squeazy. You found out otherwise as you went through what you had to, to get where you wanted to be. Will you now go back, because the price was too high? No, because it wasn't LOW COST that you were after, it was the accomplishment itself.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 42
view profile
History
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/17/2011 10:51:54 PM
wonder what the creationist reason for the existence of dinos in the first place is.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 43
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/17/2011 11:15:11 PM

wonder what the creationist reason for the existence of dinos in the first place is.

They where there to offer an exercise in denial.
I'm sure that could be construed as an achievement
Whether that denial was worthwhile? I'd say it was at the time
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 44
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/18/2011 10:16:03 AM
I get a chuckle from this thread. How soon we forget.
How many plagues, famines, disasters have already occurred hundreds or thousands of years ago, when there were no evil corporate scientists to blame?
Cholera, Bubonic Plague, Smallpox, Polio, where are they today?
Sure, a tsunami wipes out a few nukes in Japan, and a hundred people die, OK, that sucks.
Compare that to the Plague in the Middle Ages, didn't that wipe out half of Europe?
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 45
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/18/2011 11:28:58 AM
"Who trusted God was love indeed
And love Creation's final law
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and claw
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed"

- In Memorium A.H.H.
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
 Hibernian1960
Joined: 9/13/2008
Msg: 46
view profile
History
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 8/20/2011 11:41:53 PM
Tsunami was not caused by humans, but by murderous Mother Nature, who has been trying to kill us off since forever and continues predictably and horrifically.
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 47
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/10/2011 7:17:07 PM
Realization that we have the power to change things.

Mosaic Abuse of Demiurgic Technology

http://montalk.net/gnosis/187/mosaic-abuse-of-demiurgic-technology
 flittery1
Joined: 8/19/2011
Msg: 48
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/10/2011 8:27:30 PM
Amazing medical advancements.
 Platonium25
Joined: 8/13/2011
Msg: 49
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/11/2011 12:04:04 AM
Three words. Speak For Yourself.

I am really tired of this depressed garbage about how we are a cancer and all we can do is destroy. Don't you think that it is this type of outlook that allows destructive behavior to flourish? It seems like allot of people like to think that humanity is terrible because it makes them feel better about making terrible choices. Is there dark things such as genocide and oppression in the world? Absolutely. These apparently evil actions happen because people allow them to happen and refuse to understand the cause. They allow them to happen because they convince themselves that they don't care or can't care because they have no power to change things. Change is inevitable and so is choice. Unfortunately, many people make the choice to convince themselves that they have no choice. Take a step back. Look at a subject and try to understand it from various perspectives. Understand the cause and effect of the situation and develop an opinion that addresses the cause and not the effects.

"What have we achieved as human beings that's worth..."

To me, that is like hearing someone say, "I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally." This type of 'personal philosophy' is more offensive to me than an upfront racist. The saying isn't witty and it isn't original.

Ehh.. I've wasted to much time on this anti- human, sorry excuse for philosophy. Open your eyes and see the wonders that have been created by rational thought.
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 50
view profile
History
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/11/2011 10:07:24 AM
I think this kind of nihilism is perpetuated by the skewed focus our society has on sensationalism and disaster and the misfortunes of others. The whole 'woe is me' thing is getting old.

Anyone who watches the news regularly is bound to get depressed and think it's all terrible 'out there'. But the media is one-sided, mostly. To discover the good things one has to actually LOOK for it. But it is there.

Music, art, literature, altruism, small acts of kindness, advances in science which improve the quality of life... the fact that even though atrocities still happen way too frequently we are probably more compassionate, as a race, than we have ever been (slavery is pretty much frowned upon and mostly outlawed, we do reach out to those not in our 'local' tribe to send aid, national healthcare is becoming more and more prevalent over the world, as is education, etc.. - what middle ages person wouldn't be baffled at the concept of children's or animal rights? - think about it - really, what would an ancient akkadian have said to the idea of saving a single species of ANIMAL, at the expense of human comfort?)

Now we just have to shed this existential SHAME our race seems to hold so dear and we might actually get somewhere.

Peace
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 51
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/11/2011 12:52:00 PM
CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE WETIKO KIND
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/wordpress/?p=693


There is a psycho-spiritual disease of the soul whose origin is within ourselves that has the potential either to destroy our species or wake us up, depending upon whether or not we recognize what it is revealing to us. In Wetiko: The Greatest Epidemic Sickness Known to Humanity, I pay homage to and appreciate how Native American traditions have been tracking the very same psychic [ii] virus which I am pointing at. The indigenous art-iculation of the disease is truly inspired and helps all of us to see and get in focus this elusive, nonlocal (see glossary) parasite of the mind even more clearly. In this book, I contemplate how the Native tradition’s expression of this disease of the soul, combined with my articulation of this same malady based on my own personal experience, help to bring each other’s vision into sharper clarity and focus. I look forward to many others adding their insights to the mix so as to deepen our understanding and flesh out our course of action in relation to this psychic plague even more clearly.
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 52
view profile
History
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/11/2011 4:26:58 PM


Now we just have to shed this existential SHAME our race seems to hold so dear and we might actually get somewhere


Exactly.

What makes our species stand out is our capacity to actually give a damn about something beyond our own individual survival. We're able to anticipate and plan beyond what our primary senses tell us. That one of us could think to ASK this question at once answers it as well.

Yup, we do some pretty obnoxious things. But we do a whole lot of wonderful things as well. That many of us fret about the bad and do what we can to make things better is an achievement well worth celebrating.

Sure, much of what we do is selfishly motivated, same as every other critter on the planet. But that's not ALL we do. It's the 'bleeding hearts' among us who make us special.

Dave
 chrono1985
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 53
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/13/2011 6:29:56 AM
Asking if human achievements are "worth all the misery" is assuming the misery is created because of those achievements. Sorry but I don't buy into that faulty logic. Misery is generally created by people abusing the power, rarely is it the result of a human achievement outside of half baked arguments that fail to account for all the factors involved.

So when you shun human achievements, consider the following: up until around a hundred years ago only the wealthy lived beyond 40 years, a couple hundred years prior to that even the wealthy were lucky to live 40 years, thousand or so years ago you were a decrepit old man at just 25 years old.
 8plenty8
Joined: 5/28/2011
Msg: 54
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/18/2011 6:43:15 AM
What human achievement has any glory when the basics are not taken care of?

For example, if I were the head of a household of 10 kids and half go to bed hungry and a quarter are killing each other but I have built a rocket in the basement that took me to the moon and back - what would you think of me as a person, as a custodian of that family. I think I'd probably be thrown in jail for neglect or the nuthouse because obviously my priorities are all messed up.

People who don't care about priorities or anyone else's welfare are way too taken with their own glory to notice how disgraceful their achievements are in the face of what they neglected to reach that glory.
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 55
view profile
History
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/18/2011 9:33:16 AM
Fruit pastilles and breast implants?

I'm a big fan of both of those
 suziq977
Joined: 10/19/2010
Msg: 56
view profile
History
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/21/2011 12:04:02 AM
a shift in consciousness and human spirituality
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 58
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/21/2011 9:09:45 PM
Equality, justice, universal medical plans, pension plans, time and places for the wild animals and sea creatures, an ability to die when you are done , little garden spaces, no friggen dream houses...and all of the rest can fly at it and die greedy and empty in heart and soul.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 59
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 10/22/2011 6:36:19 AM
Sooner or later, humans will become extinct. The earth will repair herself and the next dominant species will arise.

Then, in 5 billion years, the earth will be burned to a crisp by the sun when it becomes a red giant.

All things are transitory and heaven does not exist. Do what you can to make yourself happy and to make things better for others.

This, too, shall pass.
 Damienevil
Joined: 2/22/2008
Msg: 60
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 12/2/2011 6:59:21 PM
Since society beyond the stone age is unsustainable due to what we do to nature. I would say the rape and destruction of the planet and almost rendering it uninhabitable by 2100 due to our own actions.

I would say nothing we have done would equal this.
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  >