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 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 268
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Bin LadenPage 20 of 25    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)
The Afghan and Iraq attacks were planned in advance of 9/11 and executed using pretext. The Afghan attack may have had limited justification, but given our actions there since, and the fact that a few months after the attack, Bush didn't give a rats behind about bin Laden, it amounted to a war crime scene. The Iran war scheme is also being planned the same way, with pretext building for yet another unjustifiable genocide.

An Islamic website is not necessarily a "pro-jihadist" website. When trying to come to an understanding of our standing in the world, it does not hurt to consider the opinions of those on the underside of our bombs and police actions. Around the world we are indeed considered the most feared terrorists with the prospect of drones attacks and armed invasions at any time and anywhere. The poster cited links to Dr. Polya's writing on the subject of the millions of dead Muslims since our campaigns started. Dr. Polya is Australian. He cites references from the UN, UNHRC, WHO, and UNICEF among others. The perception out there in the real world that the US is killing 2000 Muslims a day in retribution for 3000 on one day here only manufactures more animosity and a perpetual forever war on "terrorism" and more and more people react to our war crimes.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 269
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/4/2011 10:48:42 AM
"OBL is the founder &CEO of Alquida..."

Look up Operation Cyclone; The CIA is the founder of Al-quida . Tim Osman, aka, Osama Bin Laden was one of the leaders trained in Virginia. Most of the CIA operatives got their 7.62 retirement package during the invasion of Afghanistan.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 270
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/4/2011 1:00:26 PM
I don't know how you can say I have "twisted" facts then confirm my statement about the formation of Al-Quida, you must have a very complex mind.

There are no "lawless" regions in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The regions are self-governing.


why not leave and allow Afghanistan to "decline" to the way it was before US interference?
Afghanistan, during the Taraki government, was a progressive state, cosmopolitan, with schools for both boys and girls, women worked and had places in the government, there was agrarian reform and the religion was predominately Sufi. The Taliban with their twisted form of Islam, Wahabism, came with the US.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 271
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/4/2011 9:07:59 PM
According to your observation Tim Osman took over the Mujahadeen from the US after the Soviets were driven out of Afghanistan. How do you suppose he financed this enterprise? While he was a multi-millionaire , logistically, supporting thousands of former fighters, it would have quickly sapped his fortune. No, Al-Quida remained a CIA operation.

Similarly, you consider the self-governing regions to be "lawless" because crime still exists. There are areas of New York, Chicago, Los Angeles that are controlled by gangs and it would cost you your life to venture there. Are they also "lawless"?

The Taraki government was also a Carter administration "era" regime. And it was the Carter administration that set about destroying it. Purely for loot. Eurasia contains 75% of the worlds natural wealth. Afghanistan has oil, natural gas, copper, gold, precious metals and gems, all largely undeveloped. The oligarchies that control the US want to control the development of Eurasia and they have no problem sacrificing US blood and treasure for their own ends. A case in point: the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline would not have benefited the citizens of the US one bit---the oil was destined for Asian and European markets. Is it a coincidence that all the US bases are built along the proposed pipeline route?

Back to the cost of maintaining the Mugahadeen. The CIA made a deal with the devil. In order to secure funding from the Saudis they allowed them to build madrasses, religious schools, to teach their particular form of Islam, Wahabism. The predominate religion of Afghanistan was Sufi, a much more benign form of Islam. The Taliban are the USs baby and they dealt with them on a government to government basis, even paying their salaries.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 272
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/9/2011 7:44:24 AM
Did anyone happen to notice that Zawahiri issued a eulogy yesterday for the death of bin Laden:

Zawahiri released his first statement on Wednesday since Al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden was killed in a US raid on his compound in Pakistan last month.

In his 28-minute eulogy audio, Zawahiri praised Bin Laden and vowed that his group would seek his revenge from the US.

"He went to his God as a martyr," Zawahiri said in his message titled "The Noble Knight Dismounted".

"The man who terrified American while alive and terrifies it in death," said Zawahiri, who is strongly believed to succeed Bin Laden as Al-Qaeda new leader.

"You will continue to be troubled by his famous vow: You shall not dream of security until we enjoy it and until you depart the Muslims' lands."

http://www.onislam.net/english/news/global/452599-zawahiri-message-reveals-qaeda-rift.html

Oh the conspirists must be going gaga over that.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 274
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/9/2011 10:56:52 AM

"Zawahiri has no credibility."
-same article


Actually:

Potential Leaders

Former Al-Qaeda members and analysts rule out that Zawahiri is capable of filling in the vacuum caused by Bin Laden’s death.

"I think Osama bin Laden, with his charisma, with his money and with his history, no one can be equal to him,'' Sheikh Abdullah Anas, a former anti-Soviet fighter, who broke with Bin Laden in the 1990s, said, according to the McClatchy Newspapers.
"Zawahiri has no credibility."

Anas said during the '80s when he and other Arabs went to Afghanistan by way of Pakistan to fight the Soviet invasion and occupation, Zawahiri "was just sitting in Peshawar, criticizing."


What you chose to highlight was Zawahiri's potential to take over alQaeda's leadership as seen by Anas....

Did you think that comment referenced Zawahiri's credibility in giving a bin Laden eulogy?
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 275
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/12/2011 8:58:13 AM
According to Robin Cook, a former British MP and Minister of Foreign Affairs, Al-Quida is neither a terrorist group nor Osmana Bin Laden's personal property.

Al-Quida, the "data base" of Mujahideen assets was facilitated by the CIA and allied intelligence networks to achieve US foreign policy objectives throughout the Cold War and post Cold War era.

Robin Cook quoted a former French Intelligence agent:
The truth is, there is no Islamic Army or terrorist group called Al Quida, and any informed intelligence officer knows this. but there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the 'tv watchers' to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US and the lobbyists for the US war on terror are only interested in making money.

The National Security Industry seems to be the richest and fastest growing industry in the US.

The "Zawahiri euology" seems a clever support for the "I killed Bin Laden Hoax".

Is an Al-Quida franchise anything like a MacDonalds franchise? Who would one contact to open one?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 276
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History
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/12/2011 8:25:22 PM
"I still don't understand why there are no videos of the airplane hitting the pentagon. They released the impact but can't release a video of an airplane flying through the air? Given that the pilot wasn't competent with a small single engine plane, how was he able to pull off such a difficult maneuver with such accuracy?"

I witnessed that plane hitting the Pentagon myself. It flew directly over my house, and rammed into the West side of the Pentagon. I was scheduled to be IN the Pentagon, fixing machines that day, but I had the flu, so I was home instead. I apologize that I do not own camera equipment and carry it with me at all times, so I was unable to provide you the footage you would no doubt STILL refuse to believe.

How did he do it? He did it by flying low, following Columbia Pike, which he could see from the plane, and that led him directly to the Pentagon. That you think the terrorist pilot wasn't competent, shows that you didn't pay attention to the reports that all of the terrorists received formal training in how to fly jet liners before taking on the mission.

The reason there were videos of the planes hitting the Twin Towers, was simply because new York has more tourists with video cameras pointing UP than we do here in D.C. Why? Because we don't have any sky scrapers to point them at. Stop being so silly.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 277
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/17/2011 1:54:43 PM
I've never seen one article saying Hani Hanjour was a competent pilot.


After about three months, Hanjour was able to obtain his private pilot's license. Several more months of training yielded him a commercial pilot certificate, issued by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in April 1999
Page 225/227, 9/11 Commission Report

My guess is that the FAA doesn't issue commercial pilot's licenses if the pilot is not at least minimally competent. . . .

 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 278
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History
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/18/2011 9:57:52 AM
Well said, Jed. And demanding to know "why wont the government release videos" that haven't been reported as existing is a bit silly, too.

Even if they DID exist, what do the conspiracists imagine they would prove?

As for the idea that I am arrogant for assuming a conspiracist wont believe videos either, I stand by the response of the conspiracy supporters: ALL evidence that contradicts their beliefs is rejected as being created from scratch by the nefarious geniuses they imagine infest our world (but can't manage to succeed in actually controlling).

Besides, if I were MYSELF still hooked on conspiracies (I was for a while as a teen), I know full well that all true believers KNOW that what evidence contradicts their beliefs, has been manufactured by the sneaky folks they are worried about. It's a standing rule of all paranoid people, and other conspiracy believers, that what ever facts show the conspiracy DOES exist are good and solid facts, and all evidence that points the other way, was generated BY the conspirators.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 279
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/18/2011 7:15:59 PM
Even if they DID exist, what do the conspiracists imagine they would prove?


Why, they'd *prove* it was a rocket that hit the Pentagon and not an airplane. . . . I'm still waiting to hear what the Mossad agents posing as Saudi pilots *did* with the passengers after they hijacked the plane. Or, for that matter, what they did with the plane. And how they got their hands on a rocket.

Just me.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 280
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/19/2011 10:12:01 AM
Paul K


I'll have to remember that line the next time it is my turn to tell a joke.................. Afghanistan was a "progressive state, cosmopolitan"................. YOu do take humor to another level, don't you..................

Thanks for the laugh.

Paul K


- How about I show you some photos of Afghanistan during the 70s and 80s and let you compare them to now and see how the US government has turned this country into the 4000 BC?

1. Photo number one: Afghan students both men and women at the University of Kaubl studying together. (Look at the photo)

http://www.internationalist.org/afghanwomen1001.html

2. Photos of women with no veils and nothing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Afghan_Crowd_Circa_1980.png

3. Photos of Afghan women at the library studying and both men and women at a lab at the university of Kabul

http://ovigia.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/afeganistao-quando-em-vez-de-rockets-tinha-rock-n-roll/


You want more.............................?
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 281
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/19/2011 12:27:06 PM
Speaking of Orwellian, it seems you have sent all the information about pre-US and Taliban involvement in Afghanistan down the memory hole.

Afghanistan was cosmopolitan before the US oligarchies decided it must be destroyed if they wanted to get their hands on its riches. To this end they recruited and armed fighters from across the middle east to attack and destroy the Afghanistan government. The fighters were trained in Pakistan, (the origin of the pictures of the Al-Quida terror camps) The leaders were trained in Virginia. The US made a deal with the devil. They got additional funding and fighters from Saudi America on condition the Saudis be allowed to build Madrasses, religious schools, to teach their particular form of of Islam, Wahabism , which is more ancient tribal custom than it is Islam.

It is Wahabism and the US that is responsible for all the atrocities you have put forth on your last two posts. This is more than disingenuous, it is an outright falsehood.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 282
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/19/2011 4:15:37 PM
Yes, the atrocities of the Taliban are directly the fault of the US, for, without US interference and development and support of the Mugjahadeen there would be no Taliban and Afghanistan would now be a dynamic and vibrant country.

Your "refutation" is false because you present it as if the Taliban and Wahabism existed in Afghanistan prior to US interference. The government of Afghanistan was democratic and the religion in Afghanistan prior to US interference was Sufi and other religions which were respected. The US destroyed all that for loot, pure and simple.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 283
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History
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/19/2011 4:33:15 PM
Agreed Whiskeypapa..our CIA created and nurtured our Taliban and Mujahadeen allies against the Soviets when the Caspian Sea pipeline seemed like a done deal while we dealt with the enemies of our enemies who were our temp friends. As Karzi gets pissed at our arrogance and meddling, we are again negotiating with the enemies of our former friends, and enemies...ad infinitum. Saddam was also our bud for awhile, as was Noriega, Markos, and dozens of puppets taken down when they no longer served or empire interests. The "official" narratives have been suspect for decades and the bin Laden one has more holes than most.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 284
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/23/2011 8:59:33 AM
spetta ~~ let me get this straight. You believe, on the word of Alex Jones, who makes his living from being hysterical, that bin Laden died ten years ago. But you *don't* believe the word of the President (from a different party), or the actual ones who witnessed the killing (AKA our sacred *TROOPS*).

Oh, wait, I forgot: the Illuminati control EVERYTHING and everybody. . . . Sorry. Carry on.

And Generalissimo Franco is still dead. . . .




 rpl55
Joined: 3/22/2009
Msg: 285
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History
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/23/2011 11:50:35 AM
jed456 said:


That's the thing with conspiracy theorist it is an unending circle of paranoia. One example the Commission report on 9 11 conspiracy people will say it is the government of course their going to lie.


You cited the 9/11 Commission as proof? You have got to be kidding. Let's see what the 9/11 Commissioners themselves have to say about their own report.

Senator Max Cleland - Former member of the 9/11 Commission, who resigned in December 2003:


"I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot look any American in the eye... It is a national scandal."

“One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up.


and


"As each day goes by we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before September 11th than it has ever admitted.


He was also the only member to speak out against the Commission leaders' deal allowing the White House to severely limit and censure access to requested Bush briefing documents. As Cleland raged to Wolf Blitzer on CNN (11/13/03),


This is a scam, it's disgusting. America is being cheated... We shouldn't be making deals. If somebody wants to deal, we issue subpoenas. That's the deal.


Governor Thomas Kean - Chairman of the 9/11 Commission:


We think the Commission, in many ways, was set up to fail. Because we had not enough money, we didn't have enough time, and we have been appointed by the most partisan people in Washington.

We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us. It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied.


Lee Hamilton, - Vice Chairman, 9/11 Commission, Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Homeland Security Advisory Council:


...we got started late; we had a very short time frame...we did not have enough money...We had a lot of people strongly opposed to what we did. We had a lot of trouble getting access to documents and to people. ... So there were all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail.


In a New York Times op-ed, Thomas H. Kean and Lee Hamilton, chair and co-chair of the 9/11 commission, blast the CIA for stonewalling the commission’s investigation and destroying important evidence of the interrogation of alleged Al Qaeda operatives.

They write, “the agency failed to respond to our lawful requests for information about the 9/11 plot. Those who knew about those videotapes — and did not tell us about them — obstructed our investigation.”

In December 2003, after being rebuffed by the CIA several times, Kean and Hamilton sat down with then-CIA director George Tenet to ask for more information about the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah (an Al Qaeda operative who appeared on the secret tapes).

Keane and Hamilton “emphasized to [Tenet] that the C.I.A. should provide any documents responsive to our requests, even if the commission had not specifically asked for them…neither he, nor anyone else in the meeting, mentioned videotapes.”

The bottom line? “Government officials decided not to inform a lawfully constituted body, created by Congress and the president, to investigate one the greatest tragedies to confront this country.”


Timothy J. Roemer, PhD, - 9/11 Commissioner, Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence:


...panel members so distrusted testimony from Pentagon officials that they referred their concerns to the Pentagon's inspector general...We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting.


John Lehman - 9/11 Commissioner:


We purposely put together a staff that had - in a way - conflicts of interest.


Bob Kerrey - 911 Commissioner and Former Nebraska Senator:


We did as good a job as we could under the circumstances of the Administration resisting at every turn the delivery of witnesses and documents. I mean, the regulatory friction that was imposed upon the 911 Commission to get documents was more than I’ve ever experienced. I had to go to 3 or 4 locations. My notes had to remain where they were. I couldn’t take them back home with me and I never got access, we got access in a limited way to the Presidential Daily Briefings. We never got face to face access to Khalid Sheik Mohammad or Ramsey Bin Al-Shieb or all others who were the ring leaders. We had to submit questions and the CIA then aksed them and delivered back the answers. So I would say, no. There was not enough time on tap, there was less cooperation than we needed and there was insufficient funding.


John Farmer - Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission:

In John Farmer’s book: “The Ground Truth: The Story Behind America’s Defense on 9/11?, the author builds the inescapably convincing case that the official version... is almost entirely untrue...

The 9/11 Commission now tells us that the official version of 9/11 was based on false testimony and documents and is almost entirely untrue. The details of this massive cover-up are carefully outlined in a book by John Farmer, who was the Senior Counsel for the 9/11 Commission.

Farmer, Dean of Rutger Universities' School of Law and former Attorney General of New Jersey, was responsible for drafting the original flawed 9/11 report.

Does Farmer have cooperation and agreement from other members of the Commission? Yes. Did they say Bush ordered 9/11? No. Do they say that the 9/11 Commission was lied to by the FBI, CIA, Whitehouse and NORAD? Yes. Is there full documentary proof of this? Yes.

Farmer states...


...at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.


And Farmer said:


It’s almost a culture of concealment, for lack of a better word. There were interviews made at the FAA’s New York center the night of 9/11 and those tapes were destroyed. The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened.


If the Commissioners themselves don't believe the government's ridiculous conspiracy theory, why would anybody with a functioning brain believe it?

RPL
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 286
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History
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/23/2011 2:53:20 PM
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
Page 51, upper left, first sentence, first full paragraph.
Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor"

PNACers were embedding all over the Bush II regime.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 287
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/25/2011 9:36:53 AM
Jedd


First of all the women with no veils the author is Tass the soviet propaganda newspaper.


- I showed you photos and not newspaper readings to read. Plus, if you want some "hard copies" of photos in Afghanistan, I happen to have them with me and I will show you more.

And................

It doesn't matter if it was Soviet propaganada or not, look at the photo. They don't look like anything that the US government has turned Afghanistan into now.


I think the U.S. should get out of Afghanistan as to your remark of turning the country back to 4,000 BC (what a stretch)


- Show me some pics of Afghanistan that compares to what I have posted of the 70s and 80s in Afghanistan. Show me some photos of women with mini skirts and studying side by side with men in university without veils.

Otherwise..............

Your whole point is completely baseless 'cause you haven't provided any proof to your baseless claims.


he following refutes your entire point.......The Taliban & Afghan Women


- We are talking 70s, 80s in Afghanistan and not when the Taliban came into power. During 70s and 80s, the US government has been involved in supporting radical Mujahideen which included Osama bin laudin to kill and destroy the then established government of Afghanistan.

- The US has been involved in turning Afghanistan to 4000 BC if you compare the present photos and the past photos.



I see the Taliban beheading their own countrymen is the fault of the United States?


- Yes it is. The US government destroyed established government of Afghanistan under the the leadership of Najibullah, the president of Afghanistan and funded radical terrorists and Mujhaideen in Afghanistan and that's what lead to the whole civil war and destruction of that country including tens of thousands of people being killed with the weapons sent by the US government while supporting these radicals during the 70s and 80s.



You must be joking!But whatever information is given it is refuted by you and passionate man


-Of course it is refuted because we are talking about the 70s and 80s and you bring Taliban in the midst. Can you back up a little bit on history and check it out?



It makes no sense to even continue this conversation with two adults who already have their minds made up.


- Of course it doesn't make sense to continue the conversation because of lack of information on the history and situation of Afghanistan during 70s and 80s by you.



Woobytoods



But you *don't* believe the word of the President (from a different party), or the actual ones who witnessed the killing (AKA our sacred *TROOPS*).


- How about the US government show the photos and videos of the killing 'cause apparently Osama was watching the "kill show" live?

And...............

This Bin laudin story resembles ALOT to that of the Transformers movie with Megatron thrown at sea.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 288
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/25/2011 7:54:21 PM
SarahM


That's not for you.


Of course not.

1. I am an American who has been cooped and confined and kept busy working 2 jobs so that I get to live my "American dream" by paying off credit cards, loans, car loans, mortgages etc.

2. I am completely alienated from the outside world and have no clue about world issues and the only information I am getting is from biased sources, such as CNN and Fox.

3. I get no free time to spend with my own family and kids and socialize and the only free time I get is only listen to TV and CNN news which is the most "accurate" news on the face of the planet and I believe everything they are feeding me without any proof or evidence.

3. My government rules me and the politicians own me so I believe in everything I am being fed 100 percent.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 289
Bin Laden
Posted: 6/25/2011 7:54:42 PM
SarahM


That's not for you.


Of course not.

1. I am an American who has been cooped and confined and kept busy working 2 jobs so that I get to live my "American dream" by paying off credit cards, loans, car loans, mortgages etc.

2. I am completely alienated from the outside world and have no clue about world issues and the only information I am getting is from biased sources, such as CNN and Fox.

3. I get no free time to spend with my own family and kids and socialize and the only free time I get is only listen to TV and CNN news which is the most "accurate" news on the face of the planet and I believe everything they are feeding me without any proof or evidence.

4. My government rules me and the politicians own me so I believe in everything I am being fed 100 percent.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 290
Bin Laden
Posted: 7/13/2011 8:55:12 AM

Love how people speak with such authority


- One can only do that if he/she not only has spent time among the people of that country but also learned about their lifestyle, day to day lives, social settings, their history, how their government is influenced throughout history and how the country is run.


they most likely have never been to


- That's called an assumption. I am sure you know what happens when you assume, right?


let alone couldn't find on a map prior to Sept 11 2001!


- That's like grade 5 geography. I thought the above statement applied to "Afghanistan" where people had no clue where their government was invading.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 291
Bin Laden
Posted: 7/13/2011 11:22:21 AM

I have spent fair amount of time in Afghanistan and will be here quite a bit longer


- Just spending time and having an "etic" perspective doesn't make you an expert. Living within communities, knowing their history, culture and different ethnicities, way of life, religion, difference of culture and religion and being able to make comparison is what is needed.

Plus...................

My previous post wasn't about Afghanistan.


...I am not sure what parts you have visited


- I haven't "visited". I have lived within communities. There is a difference. Familiar with "emic"?



, but you will not find anything that even remotely resembles what you have described in Kandahar.


- I never described Kandahar in my previous post.


And you speak of a 'government' as if there ever has been any influence outside of Kabul on the rest of the country.


- Yes. There was proper government and system in place prior to the radical Mujahideen, who were funded by the US government destroyed that country.

- The current government in Afghanistan is what the US government has established, so the power of Kabul government is mostly only in Kabul, unfortunately.


Heck, the whole country only has one real road...and the US buit most of it!


And that's what you call "rebuilding Afghanistan." All the NGOs and the expats coming down to Afghanistan and the "security personnel" and the rest of them put Afghanistan in debt by providing monetary funds, a huge percentage of which goes back to the pockets of NGOs, expats etc.

And..................

You still expect that Afghanistan should have more than one road.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 292
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History
Bin Laden
Posted: 7/14/2011 2:45:05 AM
The Afghans have a long history of taking down empires. Ours is no different. No matter how much money we throw at this oil pipeline war, the Afghans will prevail in the surly way that always have. Opium production is still thriving despite a 10 year occupation, supplying 85% of global supply.

These oil wars, the Afghan and Iraqi ones at least, were launched with the understanding that we could fix what we break. As General Colin Powell's warned Chickenhawk Bush before the 2003 invasion of Iraq: 'It will be china shop rules. You break it, you own it.'

We immediately went after infrastructure to try to destroy them. It is only fair then that our china shop efforts get trashed in return. Haliburton and Blackwater, etc. can teach the Afghans and Iraqis a thing or two on effective and profitable corruption.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 293
Bin Laden
Posted: 7/14/2011 8:29:38 AM

Afghanistan isn't paying on dime for the reconstruction..the US tax payer is


- You gotta rebuild what you destroy.


The corruption in this country is out of control.


- When a country is "Spoon-fed" and its economy is destroyed, naturally corruption rises.

- Afghans aren't the only ones that are part of the corruption. Lots of funding that comes from overseas is also mis-handled one way or another.

- Bribing is the most common way for NGOs that have ties to get funding and report incorrect figures when it comes to reporting the expenses.

- HUGE salaries are assigned to expats who may not even have the proper education for the job titles. Thus, a large portion of the money comes back this way instead of being used properly for reconstruction and helping of the poor.

- There is ALOT more logistic expenses in these NGOs and helping organization. Thus, narrowing the scope of support and help for the locals.


You want to paint a picture that Afghanistan was a wonderful place before the US came here...far from it.


- You might want to look at Afghanistan during 70s and 80s prior to the funding of Radical Mujahideen in Afghanistan by the US government.

- You might want to do some google searches for images of women and men studying side by side at schools and universities with no veil.

- Here are a few of the images of Afghanistan during 70s. You can see women studying with men in classes and dressed all modern. We are talking 70s here.


http://afghanistanonmymind.blogspot.com/2011/06/afghanistan-in-60s-and-70s-with-or.html

- Here is an image of the University in Kabul. You can see men and women yet again with no burqas.

http://www.internationalist.org/afghanwomen1001.html



I might not have lived with them as you say, but I deal with the Afghan people every day. I have a pretty good understanding of them.


- You are simply a "present observer" and perhaps may not have studied their history, culture and way of life. That's why your observations are based on what you see today.

- Situations change and socials settings evolve as a result of that. You are assuming that Afghanistan has been like this for centuries, but that's simply your assumptions.
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