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 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 58
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.Page 2 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

Laws are being passed in every state in this country making legal abortions more and more difficult to get. In some states nearly impossible.


What's your evidence for that? Which states, specifically, and what are their restrictions? The law in this country is pretty much abortion on demand, and states are not free to ignore that in their laws.
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 60
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/8/2011 2:47:20 PM
Not a simple issue at all, but I can't think of anyone more qualified to make a complicated decision on the matter than the potential mother. If we men get a vote at all it should be a minority one.

Which is why I had a vasectomy in my twenties. While recognizing that the decision would not be mine to make should I find myself an unexpected prospective father, I didn't want to find myself handed the opposite decision of the one I favored, and should I ever want to be a father, knew there is no shortage of children needing homes in the world.

As a bumper sticker I've seen says: if you can't trust her with a choice, how can you trust her with a baby?

Dave
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 62
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/8/2011 3:56:26 PM
If a Canadian knows about the The No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act you should as well.


Yes--how derelict of me. But reading that boring stuff cuts into my wine drinking time. You brought it up. If you think it's relevant to the other poster's claims, tell us how.

I questioned those claims, which in a nutshell are that some unidentified states are severely restricting access to abortions. And the implication was that they're violating the right to abortion as the Supreme Court has interpreted it. If you're not claiming these laws are unconstitutional, what's the problem? Yet neither of you has specifically cited even one.

I don't know about any movement like the one you mention, and yes, I choose to ignore it. Anyone who opposes the current laws on abortion or rape or anything else is free to work to get them changed.


How about the requirement for a physician to show a woman an ultrasound before performing the abortion. There's absolutely no medical reason for doing so. It's nothing but an attempt to make abortion more difficult.


You don't say what state imposes that requirement. And even if it's meant to make abortions more difficult to get, so what? Women can still get them. The Court has not said that states may not restrict abortions at all. But its decisions don't restrict them nearly as far the other poster claimed. Any state law which restricted access to abortions as severely as he implied would be unconstitutional.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 64
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/8/2011 5:28:42 PM

The sign on Alamogordo's main thoroughfare shows 35-year-old Greg Fultz holding the outline of an infant. The text reads, "This Would Have Been A Picture Of My 2-Month Old Baby If The Mother Had Decided To Not KILL Our Child!"


I’m trying to figure what specific protected medical information was given out by the guy in his bill boarding.




In 1973, abortion was illegal in only about 15% of the states. In all the others, including Texas, whose law was being challenged, it was legal under certain conditions. It's unlikely the Court will ever overrule the main holding in Roe--that the Constitution guarantees a right to abortion. If it did, though, nothing would prevent all 50 states from making abortion on demand legal, just as it is now. But in any case, that should be THEIR call.
I don't say that because I oppose abortion, but because I oppose misusing the Constitution to force the views of a strident minority on everyone else. Doing that threatens our freedoms, in the long run, far more than it enhances them in the short run.


Well, I’d have thought the recent rulings on corporate campaign financing would be just as controversial today as Roe vs Wade was…but, it depends on which side of the coin you’re on….apparently having the possibility of foreign funds shaping our elections…for some…seems a great idea.


I don't say that because I oppose abortion, but because I oppose misusing the Constitution to force the views of a strident minority on everyone else. Doing that threatens our freedoms, in the long run, far more than it enhances them in the short run.


I agree…the minority shouldn’t be allowed to use the constitution to tell a woman what she may or may not do with her body.


I would have figure you to be in favor of fewer regulations, not more.


Oh please…one only need to look to past experience to see that what is said by the other side is a sham….they’ve spent us into trillions of dollars of war debt…replaced big government with bigger military…and the solution to reduce spending is to restrict access to health care for our seniors and soon us…then they byatche about Roe V Wade pandering to the religious right…knowing that piece of supreme court masterwork is here to stay….so, says the majority.



 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 66
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/8/2011 6:57:37 PM

I’d have thought the recent rulings on corporate campaign financing would be just as controversial today as Roe vs Wade was


You might have thought that. But I've read Citizens United and don't think it's controversial at all--not even a very close case. It's just the most recent of a series of Supreme Court decisions on campaign contributions by corporations and unions.


knowing that piece of supreme court masterwork


I will take that opinion for all it's worth. Everyone who's read Roe and knows even the basics of it knows it's a monstrosity. It's right down there with the worst decisions the Court has ever made. One legal commenter noted that it doesn't contain a shred of legal reasoning. I've read it pretty carefully, and I agree. In 1992, when the Court agreed to hear Casey, another abortion case, most Court watchers thought the justices had taken it to overrule Roe. But even though a lot of Roe is no longer the law, the core holding that the Constitution guarantees a right to abortion, is still intact.


I agree…the minority shouldn’t be allowed to use the constitution to tell a woman what she may or may not do with her body.


I'm not aware that opponents of abortion on demand ever tried to use the U.S. Constitution to do that. You have things backwards. Before 1973, abortion was a matter of state law. A lot of us believe it should never have been a federal concern.

I personally favor access to abortion in most cases--but not at the cost of undermining the Constitution. I will never recognize that the Constitution guarantees a right to abortion, even though the Court, so far, says it does.

It was people who opposed the restrictions many state laws imposed on abortion who challenged them, and a Texas case finally went to the Supreme Court. And the majority of the Court that was leading cheers for abortion on demand was happy to oblige them by concocting a constitutional right to it.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 67
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/8/2011 7:08:38 PM
From PersonhoodUSA:

Mississippi Personhood Amendment 26 Kicks Off 'Conceived in Rape' Tour Today
Submitted by jennifer on Thu, 06/02/2011 - 15:53
in Press ReleaseMississippi
Mississippi Personhood Amendment 26 Kicks Off ‘Conceived in Rape’ Tour Today

Contact: Les Riley, 662-760-8695; www.personhoodmississippi.com

JACKSON, Miss., June 2, 2011 /Christian Newswire/ — As part of their educational outreach, Personhood Mississippi is sponsoring the “Conceived in Rape” tour, which kicks off today, featuring renowned speaker Rebecca Kiessling. Not only will the tour promote Amendment 26, Mississippi’s Personhood amendment, but it will also raise funds for crisis pregnancy centers in Mississippi.

Rebeccca Kiessling has long been an advocate for the personhood rights for every human being, no matter the circumstances of their conception or birth. Rebecca will be answering the “tough” questions on abortion, specifically discussing children conceived in rape, as she was. Conceived in rape and targeted for abortion, Rebecca will explain why Mississippi voters should vote “Yes” on Amendment 26, and what the abortion “exceptions” proposed by many really mean. “I know that most people don’t put a face to this issue. For them, it’s just a concept — a quick cliche, and they sweep it under the rug and forget about it,” Rebecca explains on her website, rebeccakiessling.com. “I do hope that, as a child of rape, I can help to put a face, a voice, and a story to this issue.” Rebecca passionately defends the rights of preborn babies, and was recently quoted at a Personhood hearing as saying, “If you really care about a rape victim, you would want to protect her from the abortion, and not the baby. A baby is not the worst thing that could ever happen to a rape victim – an abortion is.”

The “Conceived in Rape” tour has four stops, beginning in Southaven today and ending in Gulfport. All are welcome to learn the truth about “exceptions” and to learn how they can participate in Amendment 26.


According to Rebecca Kiessling, having an abortion is worse than being raped. Women who are rapped have an obligation to carry their rapists progeny. I suppose she thinks a rape victims husband should also hold this point of view ?

PersonhoodUSA is an advocacy group sponsoring extreme anti abortion initiatives in all 50 states.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 69
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/8/2011 8:00:39 PM
Naturaly, being a man, I have little experience in these things.

I guess as the weeks of pregnancy go by, the rape doesn't seem so bad ?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 71
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/9/2011 6:42:41 AM

I'm not aware that opponents of abortion on demand ever tried to use the U.S. Constitution to do that. You have things backwards. Before 1973, abortion was a matter of state law. A lot of us believe it should never have been a federal concern.


As I understand, Roe V Wade, it took abortion as a right to privacy.


Everyone who's read Roe and knows even the basics of it knows it's a monstrosity


Yet, in a related challange to Roe V Wade in 1992:

Many thought the Casey court would overrule Roe. In the years after Roe, conservative Republican presidents appointed justices to the court more or less with that agenda. Yet in Casey, three of those justices—Anthony Kennedy, Sandra Day O'Connor, and David Souter—wrote a joint opinion upholding Roe.
By Kenji Yoshino

Employing the argument of stare decisis.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 72
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/9/2011 6:51:47 AM
What an azzhole. She was right not to have a kid with him.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 73
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/9/2011 11:01:29 AM

As I understand, Roe V Wade, it took abortion as a right to privacy.


That's right. The problem is that the decision just declared abortion was a personal privacy right without giving any constitutional reasons why it should be. It's a "because we say so" decision--"ipse dixit," in legal jargon-- and arbitrary decisions like that do not deserve respect.

Roe was based on a doctrine called "substantive due process." In a nutshell, that means the Court is declaring a law is basically unfair, not because it denies people a proper hearing, or is so vague it can mean whatever someone wants it to, or doesn't give people a proper chance to appeal, etc.--but just because what the law itself does, its substance, is basically unfair. In effect, the Court is saying, "Yes, the people passed this law through the representatives they elected--but our judgment is better than theirs, and we say it's no good."

The Court itself has discredited SDP, mostly because it violates the separation of powers by putting the Court in the position of a super-legislature. It's recited in decision after decision how it is a relic of the bad old days from 1904-1937--called the Court's "SDP Era"--where it was used to strike down more than 200 federal laws. But Justice Harry Blackmun, who authored Roe in his first year on the Court, seemed to forget about all that.

Roe has something in common with another one of the Court's all-time worst, Dred Scott v. Sandford, from 1857. Dred Scott was also a SDP decision, written by a Chief Justice who was a Southerner. The decision is long and complex, but putting it in very rough terms, it was divisive and tended to work in favor of slavery. Most historians think it played a part in bringing on the Civil War.

As for stare decisis, it's sometimes just a way of saying, "It's a piece of crap, and everyone knows it--but it's been in place so long we don't dare get rid of it." The other great example of that, aside from Roe, is the 1966 Miranda decision. Dozens of panels and committees of legal scholars, representing all sorts of organizations, including the ABA, have found, for 40 years, that Miranda was wrongly decided and should be overruled. And the Court has almost admitted it.

But when it had the chance to overrule Miranda, it declined. Without saying it in so many words, its reasoning amounted to this: We know very well that those famous words of warning have never done any good, while allowing thousands of dangerous criminals to go free on technicalities. But so many Americans have heard the Miranda warning read as they lead the bad guy away in TV cop shows and movies that it's come to be accepted as Holy Writ. If we ever eliminated it, half the country would think America had turned into a police state.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 75
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/11/2011 10:15:05 AM

... were the coin to be reversed....he wouldnt have had a choice about paying support
Really? There are lots of deadbeat dads out there.

So if she had gone ahead with the pregnancy and he not paid child support, it would have been okay for the ex-girlfriend to put up a picture of the baby in the arms of an outline of the (delinquent) father stating ...

"I wish my father would help feed and clothe me and help put a roof over my head. Where is he? He wouldn't let my mother have an abortion but doesn't want to step up to the plate either."
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 77
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/11/2011 10:38:59 PM
Well then I must be one of your hypocrites.

I think it would be morally wrong for me to try to force a woman to have a child she didn't want, and equally wrong for me to refuse to accept my responsibility to help support a child I sired.

That's why I chose to have my vasectomy as a young man, to assure that I would never find myself in either situation.

I think it's a tragedy when a child is born who is not welcomed by both parents. During my years as a public school teacher I encountered far too many such children who suffered hardships no child should bear.

I so wish that we had to take conscious action to BECOME fertile rather than the other way around.

Dave
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 78
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/12/2011 2:02:27 AM
If men got pregnant, abortion rights would be in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 80
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/12/2011 5:49:03 AM

If men got pregnant, abortion rights would be in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution.


Nope! It wouldn't require an amendment it would be a fundamental constitutional right...right along side all the other inalienable rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 83
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/12/2011 8:00:26 AM
I really don't see that putting up the billboard is the problem except that it has been pointed out that since the two people involved were from a small town and probably everyone knows who is who with reference to the billboard ... it probably is considered in bad taste or infringing on the privacy of the targeted lady.

I have to still wonder how he knew for sure the baby that was aborted/miscarried was his.

Also was the pregnancy a result of failed birth control ... pill or condom or whatever (my sister's oldest child is the result of a failed IUD)?

So maybe both meant to be "responsible" and the pregnancy was a complete accident.

I had an OB/GYN in Germany who once stated that he was not an "abortionist". However if a woman was using birth control and still got pregnant, then he didn't see why she should have to have the baby.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 86
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/12/2011 8:18:32 AM

it has been pointed out that since the two people involved were from a small town and probably everyone knows who is who with reference to the billboard


Eh...Small town...not tiny town.

Alamogordo, New Mexico
Population in July 2009: 35,984

He excercised his rights...she excercised her's.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 91
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/12/2011 4:56:42 PM
Yanno...at some point during this discussion it was pointed out the all the woman had to do...sigh...was take the baby to term and put it up for adoption....which is a great thought...do ya know how hard it is to adopt a child in america today???...there are two different sets of parents on my softball team that have adopted children from china and africa....and then on the same side of the coin...children in foster care can't be given away...unless they're an infant and white....double sigh...There are ootles and bootles of children in the foster care system in america that cannot find a family to adopt them...
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 96
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/12/2011 7:43:41 PM

I'm just not sure he should have posted the damn thing.


I don't know whether he should or shouldn't have, in the moral sense. And I'm not sure it matters. I hope he got some satisfaction from pulling this stunt. If New Mexico follows the usual rules on invasion of privacy, it will probably cost him a lot of money.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 98
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/12/2011 8:22:19 PM

If i was pregnant by a man who showed abusive tendencies i honestly might give abortion a thought, for both my sake and the unborn childs sake


If that wasn't so brutally disturbing and sad the complete lack of any logic would be really funny.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 101
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/12/2011 9:37:43 PM

Why is it disturbing and illogical that i would not want to have a child with an abusive partner, and subject myself and a child to an abusive person?

If you would be cool with being tied down for 18 years to someone who was a complete controlling douche for 18 + years by all means, you do you, but it wouldnt be my ideal life. Nor one i would want to bring a child into, i would find it very illogical, sad and disturbing to do so. I want any child of mine to have a great life, not a miserable one


So to ensure your child has a great life, you kill it?

That's it. I'm crashing my car into the first pole I see tomorrow.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 105
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/13/2011 4:43:04 AM

It appears the women with the "biggest dead beats" race.


Typical FOX reporting...seeing as how there are 10 times as many custidial mom's (gleaned from the FOX stats):



Census figures show only 57 percent of moms required to pay child support -- 385,000 women out of a total of 674,000


The statistics show 4.3 million moms out of 6.3 million who are supposed to receive child support actually get it. That leaves the alarming figure of about 2 million deadbeat dads, putting them more in the media spotlight than deadbeat moms.

Which is a misleading set of numbers concidering:

In 1997, 31 percent of single-mother families received child support
http://www.urban.org/publications/309445.html

Furthermore, the median wage of non-cs women is dismal when compared to non-cs men:

Support. Studies show the average income for non-custodial moms is only $15,000 a year, whereas non-custodial dads average about $40,000 a year.

All from that FOX report which showed women to be by far the bigger deadbeat's...but, then...one would have to actually read what was written to garner full comprehension of the report.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59963,00.html
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 109
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/13/2011 10:11:50 PM
If it came down to a choice between killing an unsentient clump of cells, or exposing both myself and the potential child to an abusive lifestyle, damn right i am going to do the humane thing and kill it


I doubt you would really. But I think for some that would likely be a good choice but not because of the abusive partner. Someone who can't figure out how to avoid 18 years of abuse for sure shouldn't be a parent. Someone whose cup is so half empty that it could never be full would be a horrible parent.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 110
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/14/2011 5:56:38 AM

Plus...one set of figures comparing the men to women also included those that paid ANY of what they owed. A woman that makes 15G a year can surely throw 20 bucks a month for their kid. The number reflects those that refuse to pay a dime. If they're making any money at all and refuse to contribute to the well being of their children......they are dead beats. Moms or dads.


Well, I call bullshyte on the FOX report in that an essntially equal percentage of men and women are dead-beat non-custodial parents...and that an essentially equal amount 29.5% of women and men don't even pay part of the awarded support...and there is a difference between someone making $40k/yr being dead-beat and someone making $15k/yr being dead-beat....let me tell you what it is...it's the difference between being at the poverty level and not.

Not from FOX...but from the source:
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0566.pdf
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 112
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/14/2011 7:22:16 AM

At poverty level...they'd have free health care, vision and dental, free school lunches, income based rent, food stamps, utility assistance, pell grants and more for college and a big fat earned income credit at the end of the year to buy big screen TV's or a nice used car.



And these non-custodial parents get all that....imagine what they'd get if they were custodial???
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 115
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/14/2011 11:34:23 AM

There are lots of others who would be good mothers to that child............


Apparently, all those children in foster care throughout America....rolling from family to family...and then into the judicial system...just needed to be adopted....what a simple solution...
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