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Show ALL Forums  > Health Wellness  > New protien requirements advise needed      Home login  
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 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 26
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New protien requirements advise neededPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
"Meat is a staple part of the human diet"

BS. True only for the tiny %age of the planet's population that can afford it.

Extremely inefficient and wasteful industrial cattle/pork production is not sustainable in North America, never mind the growing demand from developing countries.
 CrazyCanuck_1969
Joined: 6/12/2011
Msg: 27
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 6/16/2011 9:04:14 AM

Popeye was right; eating spinach really does help build muscle strength and improve cellular function, according to a new study released by the Swedish medical school Karolinska Institutet. A follow-up to a similar study released by the school back in the 1990s, researchers again observed that the natural nitrates found in spinach and other leafy greens feed muscular mitochondria, and thus help regulate blood pressure, immune defense, and cell metabolism.

Inorganic nitrates, which are different than the synthetic nitrates commonly added to processed foods, are used by the body to produce nitric oxide (NO), a vital molecular component that delivers oxygen to blood and performs a variety of other physiological and pathological processes in the body. NO is a powerful anti-inflammatory, anti-thrombotic, and vasodilation agent, all of which result in numerous health benefits.

And it turns out that spinach is loaded with these nitrates, which are converted into NO and used throughout the body. Professors Eddie Weitzberg and Jon Lundberg, coauthors of the Swedish study, observed that consuming the nitrate equivalent of 200-300g of spinach for just three days along with intense exercise improves mitochondrial efficiency. This in turn reduces oxygen consumption and increases the production of energy-rich substances in muscle tissue, resulting in both improved muscle gains and better overall health.



http://www.naturalnews.com/031676_spinach_muscles.html

The problem with high protein diet is that it's hard on the kidneys. Your life will likely be shorter if you eat too much meat. Also some research doctors found cancer cells can be turned on and off by consuming less and more meat. The China Study diet inspired them to do the research.
 Paddy_o_Lantern
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 28
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 6/16/2011 9:35:40 AM
This thread seems to be turning into a sounding board for vegetarians.

<div class="quote">The problem with high protein diet is that it's hard on the kidneys

Is this also true if you get your protein from a non animal source or if the high protein intake is in conjunction with an othewise balanced diet with a sufficient amount of water.


<div class="quote">Your life will likely be shorter if you eat too much meat.

If we look at the lifestyles of the longest living humans did most of them follow a strict organic/vegetarian diet?

Your life will be shorter if you eat or drink too much of anything. The question is what is too much for each individual. Isn't our health all about what is the proper balance for each individual.

Is it now allowable for men to have a shirtless main pic on thier profile?
 MsMuscleChick
Joined: 5/31/2011
Msg: 29
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 6/16/2011 9:50:44 AM
Hey Paddy, no kidding. People can do what they want and however they want. Heck, I have been accused of everything under the sun so I have gone so far sometimes to even make user names to "make fun" of things. If people want to be vegetarian, fine. Total carnivores, fine. I know for me, I am a meat head therefore I eat meat. It works and I aimed for this size. I am a big girl anyway, may as well make the best of it !!! I simply post how I feel because I post what works and has been done. I do not " google" or post sites for people to read because we can do that about anything. I prefer to speak and post from experience. We can all google what we want. But can people speak from experience? Shirtless photos should be required LOL ( within reason ) not that people are being honest. I simply post recent, honest, up to date photos . And some of them " somewhat" show my body. I do not lie to people. Too bad I get lied too !!!! No biggie, I am done meeting people off here, but love MOST of you in the forums.
 Paddy_o_Lantern
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 30
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 6/16/2011 10:31:52 AM

Shirtless photos should be required LOL ( within reason )


Yes if all men were required to post a full body pic wearing a speedo and all women were required to post a full body pic wearing a bikini there would be no need for threads complaining about the categories for body type but I suspect we would see far more fake or old pictures on people profiles or profiles with no pictures at all.

The within reason part is the difficult part of the requirement and this applies to diet and exercise as well. If you keep things within reason things will work out fairly well. What is reasonable for one person may be unreasonable to another however.
 CrazyCanuck_1969
Joined: 6/12/2011
Msg: 31
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 6/16/2011 10:40:17 AM
Ignorance is a bliss. It's your body, not my problem. If it falls on deaf ears that's not problem.
You have an assumption that's not even real. Where do I state not to eat meat or I don't eat meat?

I am sharing knowledge that people can use. Simple thing. If you don't like what I like to share that's your problem.
 CrazyCanuck_1969
Joined: 6/12/2011
Msg: 32
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 6/16/2011 10:53:33 AM

The meat our last common ancestors ingested 10,000 years ago? Alright, I'll give you that. The flesh was at least decent then.



Can't say that for sure but probably meat back is far better than now. Highly unlikely they had meat was full of antibiotics, feces fed, hormones and all the other crap. I do eat meat but much less often than I used to eat. With the antibiotics resistant super-bugs in meat it's pretty risk to eat a lot of it.
 peppermint petunias
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 33
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 6/16/2011 3:31:41 PM
Meat is not bad..

We are meant to have some meat...from my research and experience.

FAWK tofurky on Thanksgiving,
No fungal fake chicken either.
Plus it tastes so freaking good, esp fatty meat.

We just need it to be raised right.

Any food excess that causes the body to be put into acidosis is to be used in moderation..sugar, grains, meat( esp..what people have modified..with nitrates), booze, cigarettes, stress, pharmaceuticals,OTCs, most beans and dairy, pesticides..

http://www.ionizers.org/acidosis.html..LOL a google for you UK..kidding * snort*

Organic can mean the difference in some foods.

A healthy food in its natural state can become unhealthy depending on the source of the product including fruits and vegetables..

If it walks, flies , swims or grows on a tree or vine or under ground..I will eat it in moderation..if safe.
Except grains..I just won't do them when I can have meat instead.

An occasional tortilla or something..I AM human.


Shirtless photos should be required

^^^^^^^^^^
Can we chose who?

Ok dammitalltohell.

It seems some things got off track here.

I was inquiring if starting out in initial lifting after not doing it a while ( months) due to an injury should I increase protein intake, not advise on the source of protein.

That's my choice.
I won't go vegetarian ever again and I wont start eating meat everyday..

I will however treat myself to a skinny margarita a few times a month and a big fat chew at a ballgame wahahahahah.

Yeah I'm a BAD girl.

 *Just Jim*
Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 34
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 6/16/2011 4:36:03 PM

It's not ideology that one must cling to in order to accept that meat is not good for us.
It's more so looking at the science. Eating meat increases the chance of col-rectal cancer, with or without preservatives, colorants, agents or nitrites. Not to mention most meat bred today is fed on a gmo-based corn diet. Cows, chickens and other livestock are meant to eat gross. Not force-fed corn.

The meat our last common ancestors ingested 10,000 years ago? Alright, I'll give you that. The flesh was at least decent then.


Thanks for for the history lesson Tal. You are very well read in how food has evolved to it's present state.
I only eat grass fed beef, Tallgrass & a few others locally ,etc, not much, but still enjoy it on occasion.

And as Primal Cooking,aka Bar-b-que University Steve,Raklin, is where it all starting for mankind. yumm...

ps as I told my kids when young,don't eat alot.....but eat enough.....
 peppermint petunias
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 35
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/22/2011 2:30:53 PM
Ok after aprox 4 months the arms came back and look really good, also in the knees/legs I see an improvement in muscle tone just using my own body weight.

Now ..That was fast IMO.

I only slightly increased protein intake on arm lift days..an extra egg white .

Arms bigger and cut, but did lose 3 pounds..smaller in other areas. Waist and back..
Found a rib that must have been broken years ago as it slightly pokes out more than the rest......who knew?

STILL struggling with mid back strength..



Y'all were a great help.

Anyone with a good safe lower back exercise please feel free to share. P
 Bnong
Joined: 8/24/2011
Msg: 36
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/22/2011 4:46:15 PM
1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight in weight training individuals. Second, there are no safe exercises. You can do back hypers, or romanian deadlifts. They work your entire posterior chain. Good mornings are also good, but start light. Personally, squats and deadlifts work my lower back plenty.

Edit: The protein requirement I posted is if you're trying to maintain your weight, or to gain it. People cutting weight require more protein, up to 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight or so. This is preserve muscle while losing weight.
 peppermint petunias
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 37
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/24/2011 4:53:51 AM
On a note as far as protein and muscle bulk.

Some teen that is local just got out of the POKEY after a year or so for stealing and gun possession.
I did not recognize him walking as he passed where I was talking with someone then she pointed him out ."That' so and so out of jail".

He went in tall and skinny, came back bulked like crazy..Surely jail/prison doesn't serve high protein meals?

Unless he traded his white bread for baloney..with a dozen guys everyday.

He is the town punk/trouble maker..I can't imagine.

I thought they served a lot of cheap carbs..in jail.
 stayfit4life
Joined: 4/25/2011
Msg: 38
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/24/2011 8:10:37 AM
1.5 - 2 g /pound per day seems quite high for average, sedentary people, or even for people who some exercise. 150 lb x 1.5g = 225 g = 8 oz

Are you saying that 225g of protein = 8 oz ? 8 oz of what gives you 225 grams of protein? 8 oz of say chicken breast gives you maybe 50 grams so not sure what you are saying.

Most studies done on muscle growth show that 70-120 grams is just fine. Read How Much Protein. It has all the studies in it.
 Bnong
Joined: 8/24/2011
Msg: 39
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/24/2011 11:39:14 AM
@ peppermint

They eat better in jail than you think. Also less protein is needed when bulking than when cutting. More calories in general are needed and carbs aid muscle protein synthesis. Also he's a teen meaning he has higher test, and in prison you get an abundance of rest.
 *Just Jim*
Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 40
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/24/2011 2:41:09 PM

Anyone with a good safe lower back exercise please feel free to share.


I know this might sound redundant, but yoga is very good.....& always start out, before &

after with those ,cat stretches....meow.....i do & lov to feel those vertebrae aline.
 ZachariahTicer
Joined: 9/22/2010
Msg: 41
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New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/25/2011 7:45:58 PM
I hardly read any of the posts outside the OP so I apologize that is not my normal MO.

I am a vegetarian of 8 years and counting.


"Meat is a staple part of the human diet"


Tell that to veganbodybuildingDOTcom forum...

I am not withering away. I rarely get sick and put on muscle fine.. so what does 'staple' mean again? You have to think deeper. Are we talking about protein? Okay what are the sources for it? Then we can talk about specific amino acids...what are the sources for those! Name some amino acids that are unique to meat.... a good challenge :)

OP,

I do not want to bulk up much except slightly in the arms, back and chest


Core? Legs? Why not. I am curious.


and am not sure how much protein to add and if I just add it on the days I lift or do I need it everyday?


It's relative to your current weight, and your weight/muscle goals..

The very general rule of thumb is half of your weight in protein a day when you are physically active and trying to gain muscle. That's going to be a high number...and really only necessary if you have a pretty intense workout.

Either way if you're working out, even if you are trying to lose weight, you are increasing caloric intake.... and therefore increasing protein intake...So you should be adding regardless.

Another general rule. Complex carbohydrates prior to workout and protein within an hour after your workout.
 ZachariahTicer
Joined: 9/22/2010
Msg: 42
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New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/25/2011 7:47:56 PM

Ok hun, look body builders use carbs to bulk, protein will not make you bigger or put on weight, it will repaire your muscles faster and it will help muscles to grow, but not grow body mass!


Um no. Logical contradiction.

If protein is helping muscles grow (which it is) then it is increasing body mass. Simple science dude.
 Bnong
Joined: 8/24/2011
Msg: 43
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/25/2011 8:07:55 PM
@ zach ticer...

Don't tell somebody no when you don't know what you're talking about yourself. First protein is a highly thermogenic food, and taking in more of it doesn't make you grow muscle. There is a reason you up your protein intake when cutting weight. Second your protein intake suggestion is lower than the recommended daily intake for people that don't exercise. Lastly, you don't need complex carbs before working out, nor a protein shake within an hour after working out. If you don't know what you're talking about, stop giving advice to others.
 ZachariahTicer
Joined: 9/22/2010
Msg: 44
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New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/25/2011 9:16:09 PM

Don't tell somebody no when you don't know what you're talking about yourself


In context to what I said. What are you disagreeing with?

Increase in muscle is an increase in mass. That's what the other poster said was not the case. You are disputing this?


and taking in more of it doesn't make you grow muscle.


Again, illogical. Muscle does increase in size. An increase in size is an increase in mass. Muscle is composed of proteins. If you have an increase in muscle mass then there is an increase in proteins in the muscle. Thus taking in more protein does make it grow... it's part of the process. Part of the composition.


There is a reason you up your protein intake when cutting weight


Are you saying that body builders do not increase protein intake while gaining muscle?


Second your protein intake suggestion is lower than the recommended daily intake for people that don't exercise.


My mistake. I misrepresented what I meant. The figure I gave was meant to be for non-active. Brain fart.


Lastly, you don't need complex carbs before working out, nor a protein shake within an hour after working out


So what do you suggest as the pre-load and post-load then? Your statement is going against the general consensus..as I understand it.


If you don't know what you're talking about, stop giving advice to others.


Why so offstandish? Is this personal?
 Bnong
Joined: 8/24/2011
Msg: 45
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/25/2011 10:10:11 PM
Because ur "um no, logical contradiction" was condescending, and incorrect. When bulking science has shown around 1 gram of protein per pound of lbm is sufficient. When cutting you need more protein. Logical conclusion would be that you would have to raise carbs on a bulk. So he was correct. Protein does not add mass, a caloric surplus adds mass. Considering protein inhibits more satiety, and is more thermogenic its pretty obvious that its easier to raise carbs to raise calories. Don't be a condescending tool when u are in fact wrong and I won't point it out to u.
 ZachariahTicer
Joined: 9/22/2010
Msg: 46
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History
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/25/2011 10:16:10 PM
Ignoring half my questions is not a discussion. So did you just post that response to educate me?

Calling me a tool makes you a hypocrite considering you're claiming I am being negative or whatever you're trying to out me as..

Why don't you cut the negativity and insults and just be open to a fair debate?
 Bnong
Joined: 8/24/2011
Msg: 47
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/25/2011 10:30:21 PM
Calling you a tool doesn't make me a hypocrite. I said u were being condescending and giving false information. My information is sound. The only question I didn't answer was about carbs pre workout, and a shake poat workout. Nutrient timing is largely irrelevant and the post workout period has been shown to last up to 24 hours.
 Bnong
Joined: 8/24/2011
Msg: 48
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/26/2011 4:32:31 PM
You gain weight by adding muscle, its just that you need more than protein alone to put on muscle.
 umm...Dave
Joined: 10/7/2007
Msg: 49
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/27/2011 12:20:16 PM

it will help muscles to grow, but not grow body mass!

Uhhh.... what do you think body mass is if not muscles? Do you think people are trying to become fatter when they say they want to up their body mass? Are they possibly hoping that they will make their internal organs larger? Thicker bones? If not larger muscles what do these people want?

honestly, you could use any whey protein and not put on weight


You eat 6000 calories a day of nothing but whey protein, you aren't going to be comfortable doing it but I guarantee that you will put on weight. The reason that some people use lots of carbs when bulking is that they are less filling and cheaper than protein. I prefer to use a high protein high fat medium carb plan when bulking, but thats just me.
 umm...Dave
Joined: 10/7/2007
Msg: 50
New protien requirements advise needed
Posted: 9/27/2011 1:14:39 PM
I started lifting weights during my first year of college, I was 140lbs, I have topped out at 230lbs so far at my heaviest, I have never been fat, fatter than when I started but never what is socially accepted as fat. I know all about being small then big. What you are talking about is actually changing your bone structure it is NOT going to happen, a persons clavicle is not going to get wider, their joints won't get bigger, their frame does NOT change once their growth plates have fused.
You clearly just have no idea what you are talking about.
And why do you keep mentioning rugby players? If that is your idea of a large man then you have never met large men.
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