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 Exjrsygrl
Joined: 4/11/2010
Msg: 49
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Why do we sabotage relationships....Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
You are so right crazy,
Our past is a reason that we act the way we do. NOT an excuse to keep acting that way!
 SunnyGirlFL
Joined: 6/3/2010
Msg: 50
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 6/21/2011 1:24:41 PM
Mr. Canuck...I just want to say that I am in no way, shape or form playing the victim. If anything, I am overly aware that I have been the person of which my actions claimed a victim and do not feel victimized. It is wrong and I do know it. I'm not out there doing this as a daily occurance. I've only dated 2 men in 6 years...and both I pushed away...however, one was kind enough to allow me to explain my issues and let him know that I just wasn't ready and to this day we are still friends. It was so much easier to let my guard down and talk to him knowing he wanted a friendship. For some reason, though, and back to my original post...when I feel the slightest twinge that my heart may be on the line - I completely freeze up...I find every reason to walk away, to push the man away and it is terribly, terribly wrong. I posted to see if I could get good advice in attempting to overcome this fear. And, luckily, there are those that offered wonderful advice and attempts at helping me understanding the reason I do this. Your on the other hand...not sure why you felt compelled to write a derogatory post...maybe you've been treated the way I have treated men and you are angry with me about that in some way...and, for that I apologize.

We are all so complicated. Our hearts...our minds...our wills and our desires, they feel, see, think, hope and entertain our needs in ways that sometimes we simply do not understand. I am attempting to understand so that one day...hopefully in the not too distant future, I can learn to enjoy the vulnerability in love that I know exists and want for myself.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 51
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 6/21/2011 1:45:15 PM

I want to be vulnerable


I guess it's the samething as I want to be a victim? Seriously how can I person help themself if they want to be a victim. You can only become a victim when you let yourself be one.


This is such a stretch. Showing our vulnerability has nothing to do with being a victim. It has to do with allowing the flow of emotions in and out.

Also, your pass can shape you into a victim, or it can set you free. The more you understand, the better prepared you are to write your own script.
 Janet_Always
Joined: 12/7/2010
Msg: 52
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 6/22/2011 6:01:56 AM

I'm interested to know, then, you speak from personal experience? Only asking because I've found often people don't.

Because I have a different view on the subject? You wouldn't be questioning my "qualifications" if I was on the same page, huh. But, OK -- to satisfy your curiosity -- yes, I've lived through all the examples I listed of possible childhood trauma and then some.

And I don't believe I said my sister (or I) were making excuses, did I? Just your interpretation. I offered an explanation - different thing. We've lived and done the "hard things" and we're both doing OK now, thank you.

I wasn't making any comments related to your personal situation. I was quoting a previous post:

Abelian's so wrong when he says "You aren't defined by what happens to you early in life."

You disagreed, I agreed. I'm OK with that... just giving my opinion. And good for you and your sister that you're doing well and have each other... I can relate to the sister thing, too. Mine is two years older :)
 VacationGuy234
Joined: 8/1/2008
Msg: 53
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 6/22/2011 6:11:57 AM

I definitely let the communication come from the man. I'm old fashioned that way


Is this really being old fashion or just a continuation of the problem? You know guys get tired of initiating conversation too and this is probably another mechanism for driving men away.
 SunnyGirlFL
Joined: 6/3/2010
Msg: 54
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 6/22/2011 7:02:40 AM
Vacation Guy...well, I find that with a lot of men...they really want to be the one to initiate contact. And, I guess it's my 'fear' that if I am the one initiating the contact, then they will think I am a pest.

So...really, then, what is the right protocol. If a woman calls the man...what is acceptable? I have always let the man call me first. I also have also let the man call me after a date. If he doesn't call me...then, I just don't call him and it's done. I am so confused by men. They want to be the man and take the reigns...they want the woman to??? HELP!!!
 TDH49
Joined: 8/13/2010
Msg: 55
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 6/22/2011 7:09:59 AM
Vacation Guy...well, I find that with a lot of men...they really want to be the one to initiate contact. And, I guess it's my 'fear' that if I am the one initiating the contact, then they will think I am a pest.

So...really, then, what is the right protocol. If a woman calls the man...what is acceptable? I have always let the man call me first. I also have also let the man call me after a date. If he doesn't call me...then, I just don't call him and it's done. I am so confused by men. They want to be the man and take the reigns...they want the woman to??? HELP!!!
If a man is really interested in you, he will NEVER view you calling him as you being a pest. Men just like women like the person they are persuing to show they are interested in being persued. Calling him is one way of letting him know that the interest is mutual. You want to call him, call him without worry, because he will be very glad to hear your voice.
 Janet_Always
Joined: 12/7/2010
Msg: 56
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 6/22/2011 7:20:11 AM

Calling him is one way of letting him know that the interest is mutual.

It's also a good way to feel more in control. If you've never been the initiator, it might be a great way to break some of your old habits... doing things differently may give you a whole new perspective... and possibly a different outcome.
 shakeitupbaby2012
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 57
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 6/22/2011 7:37:42 AM
Other than some really good posts on this thread. I can offer that :

your behavior isn't pathetic. We're all on a journey of awareness, experience, etc. If we're plugged in to the journey and choose to take it. You're plugging in to it. Awareness is the first step to the newest path in your journey. Now that you're aware, yes, you will be a victim if you don't walk through working this out.
I would get counseling to fully understand why you do this. It's easy to say that by pushing someone away that you don't risk the chance of getting hurt. But your hurting yourself, so isn't that the same thing in many ways? Even on a deeper level perhaps?

Other than counseling, I would say that when you date a guy who doesn't trigger these responses ( apparently the 3 men you formed friendships with didn't ), just let things BE. Don't think about it and don't think in context of where it may go etc. Just enjoy getting to know him and spending time together. If and when a time comes where you feel more interest, simply go with it and go at your pace while sharing things with him openly.

No one will force the friendship or relationship to continue if you choose not to proceed at any time.
You have no risk in exploring this if you go in with an open mind and learn from it. Get yourself over the hump by allowing yourself to try, learn and apply what you learn until you get there.


I am so confused by men. They want to be the man and take the reigns...they want the woman to??? HELP!!!


If you've gone out together, the guy likes knowing that a girl will show JOINT interest and take a rein and share in their interest.
Yes, there are different types of men- the ones who
Like to initiate the calls etc- ones who don't- ones who are cool with joint interaction. Don't think about it. Things mesh when a guy comes along of interest and he, too, has interest. It should be easy and there shouldn't be the thought of man I don't really want to call because what will he think etc.

When I'm with a guy who's easy to be around it just flows. He asks me to dinner. Or I'm
In the area and say hey let's go grab a bite or I've got tickets to the symphony let's go have some fun afterwards etc etc. Just have fun.
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 58
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 6/22/2011 8:01:39 AM
We are all so complicated. Our hearts...our minds...our wills and our desires, they feel, see, think, hope and entertain our needs in ways that sometimes we simply do not understand. I am attempting to understand so that one day...hopefully in the not too distant future, I can learn to enjoy the vulnerability in love that I know exists and want for myself.


Maybe you can learn to KISS?







INSTEAD of worrying about all the possible complications/problems/issues/intentions/wills/desires incessantly until it seems overwhelming..

Keep It Simple Stupid ! Live each day as it comes, experience that human contact we need with those friends that matter, and be open to small steps in getting to know new people..

IF you keep things as simple as possible in your mind.. Say hi to a few strangers without expectations.. Call a friend and arrange a simple social activity, not any wedding proposal...

When you get invited out, if you think you like the person/activity just go.. DON'T worry/overthink about all the future possible permutations/complications/implications/situations..


I find that with a lot of men...they really want to be the one to initiate contact. And, I guess it's my 'fear' that if I am the one initiating the contact, then they will think I am a pest. So...really, then, what is the right protocol. If a woman calls the man...what is acceptable?

Well, since I have about 15 years on you and likely much more experience, you MUST follow my rules/protocol to the letter.. Since I am the man...
Listen carefully to EVERYTHING I tell you to do, then do it before I get annoyed.. You are allowed to call me ONCE per day, and make it a good one.. Have something important to say, or an invite/plans already made for a nice date for us.. OR I may think you are a wishywashy pesky wimp with nothing important/better to do than chat with me and waste my valuable time...
And it MUST be by Tuesday, for a date on Fri/Saturday or i may have to decline, just to show that I am a really busy/important person and my schedule is very tight with all the people after me all of the time..

Get it? My way or the highway.. Just so I can feel that I have a bit more control in what IS the second greatest challenge in life for most..
Finding and maintaining a compatible long-term SO relationship.. Since that REQUIRES allowing about 50% control to another imperfect human being like yourself... S


 Jerilyn
Joined: 6/10/2011
Msg: 59
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 7/27/2011 10:09:04 PM
""Playing the victim card can be a powerful tool to avoid doing the hard things in life. "

Not so.. people who have had difficult times growing up don`t "play the victim", its not that cut and dried. Much of what drives our behaviour is subconscious and it can be terribly difficult to change it no matter how much you work at it...

its judgemental and ignorant to claim that people are "playing the victim card" just to avoid the hard things in life ... how do YOU the kinds of challenges people are facing and what they are doing about them?
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 60
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 7/27/2011 10:45:14 PM

how do YOU the kinds of challenges people are facing and what they are doing about them?

My best friend was 4 years old when she watched her mother commit suicide by shooting herself in the head. The only living relatives she's had since age 28 are her son and a very old aunt. No brothers, cousins, parents or anyone else related by blood. Another friend of mine was raped at gunpoint at 16 while walking home from school. She was still a virgin at the time. Both of them are quite normal and both have said that they refused to be victims of their past, got over it and decided to move on with their lives. If someone is playing the victim card, yes, I'm going to be judgmental and say that person needs therapy and needs to learn to live in the present before getting into a relationship. It may be difficult to change, but if a person wants a normal life, excuses aren't the way to get there.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 61
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 7/27/2011 11:29:55 PM
OP....if you figure it out...let me know...I tend to date the women that PUSH away or worse...retreat into themselves rather than communicate. Lately I've been finding out they have depression/bi-polar issues...usually once I'm close to fed-up. I haven't learned how to spot the depression issue early on yet...it seems to be easier to notice once you're IN the relationship...they tend to be able to hide it when just dating.
 Kurhein
Joined: 2/9/2011
Msg: 62
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 7/28/2011 2:40:57 PM
I for one can attest to C.S.Lewis's quote. Except unlike a lot people I fail to even start relationships at all. I either push people away from the get go or avoid them entirely.
Now that I've gotten control over my depression and shyness I'm finding it nearly impossible start a relationship.
 Jerilyn
Joined: 6/10/2011
Msg: 63
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 7/29/2011 9:35:58 AM
""Both of them are quite normal and both have said that they refused to be victims of their past, got over it and decided to move on with their lives""

Statements like this are bound to be made. But its running on the assumption that everyone is the same. If so and so can do it... you can too.

Everyone is different, every situation is different. If one person gets over something that another person can`t, it doesn`t necessarily follow that the one who can`t get over it is someone who just likes playing the victim.

And also when it comes to something like a sudden attack by a stranger as opposed to say, someone who has suffered systematic abuse over a period of years... these are two different scenarios... I`m guessing that the one who has suffered the long term abuse is the one who is probably going to end up the most damaged, psychologically, and is probably going to have a harder time in life... Its all about the situation and the specific person involved in that situation. To judge someone as weak or as a willing victim is wrong. You aren`t walking in their shoes.
 Jerilyn
Joined: 6/10/2011
Msg: 64
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 7/29/2011 9:51:47 AM
And anyway, how do you know how "normal" your friends are... just because they are telling you so? Many people who claim to be normal and say they haven`t been affected by their past are among the most effed up people I know. If you are around someone enough, and stand back and watch as an objective observer, you can see how these so-called "normal" people are running their lives into the ditch.. with no ability to connect the dots...

running their lives into the ditch.. good god, I sound like Dr. Phil.
 sunny_hi808
Joined: 2/8/2011
Msg: 65
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 8/20/2011 11:25:58 PM
Your amazing that you reconized what you've got to change. I was the same way with my relatioships to tell you the truth. As soon as someone I believe is the right guy for me comes along well I pushed him away because I figured its a bit too good to be true. What I ended always was harsh but hey thats how I felt at the time. Although I learned why I did just that it was a defense mechanism thats tiggered to protect me from any hurt that might come after the starting to get to know stage. But I realized why I do just that and figured hey why not change because its really not doing me any good. Loss me alot of good relationships but gain me a few good friends who helped me realize my problem and helped me correct it. Life goes on honey if he didn't try to hold onto you then hey it was not worth you pining over. Just take some advice from everyone who posted on your thread and make a change :) ! It'll be hard but you can do it!!!
 southmeetswest
Joined: 4/26/2010
Msg: 66
view profile
History
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 8/20/2011 11:48:52 PM
this is a complex issue and i sure don't have any great insights but

when she said I want to be vulnerable, i don't think that was a victim statement

my instant take on it was that she wants to break down the walls she has built for protection and no longer be afraid and trust enough to allow vulnerability.

for what it's worth

kaylee
 Wild_man_in_the_woods
Joined: 8/19/2011
Msg: 67
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 8/26/2011 10:40:27 PM
I used to think Jim Morrison was a conceited jerk, until I read the two following quotes as I was experiencing a situation where a woman who'd been really, really into me suddenly turned on a dime and started sabotaging

"People are afraid of themselves, of their own reality; their feelings most of all. People talk about how great love is, but that's bullshit. Love hurts. Feelings are disturbing. People are taught that pain is evil and dangerous. How can they deal with love if they're afraid to feel? Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain."

“Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.”

Everyone thinks love will be like something out of a movie where the rain will stop, the clouds will part, the sun will shine, and you'll skip through the meadow together.

The reality is that when two people really become emotionally close, you end up having to look at and feel things in yourself that you may not have remembered or even realized, and that you don't even like about yourself. It can be wrenching. The good news- just 'cause you're going through that wrenching experience, it does not necessarily need to represent "the ending that will happen" unless you let it turn into that. Look straight at the fear, and look right on through it and out the other side- not denying the size and severity of the fear, but believing that there _is_ indeed "another side beyond" that will be better even though you don't know exactly what that other side will look like. View the experience of the fear as the chance to finally face it- the more fully you experience the fear, without running from the fear, or letting the fear rule your emotions and actions, the more you defeat the fear. Only by facing it and actually grabbing it and walking in it and with it can you take away its power over you. You'll suddenly find that you've stared it down like a playground bully that cuts and runs as soon as he/ she realizes you aren't scared of them anymore. Whether that lets you make the particular relationship escape the sabotage pattern or not, you'll start to find yourself able to go places you may not even have envisioned possible before. Best wishes.
 Wild_man_in_the_woods
Joined: 8/19/2011
Msg: 68
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 8/26/2011 10:43:50 PM
And by the way, even though I tuned into the Morrison quotes and the incredible insight behind them when someone was sabotaging and running, I had the (priceless) opportunity to face, more fully and deeply than ever before, my own fears of abandonment and unworthiness- though they tick in different ways- which have now lost their power over me.
 redraider609
Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 69
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 8/26/2011 10:55:48 PM
I don't know how to fix your problem but I will say this: THANK YOU so much for realizing that is a problem that you have and not blaming it on men. There are so many other girls that have a problem like this, or very similar to it, and instead of asking themselves why they just continually blame it on the idea that there are "no good men left". It takes a really smart woman to be able to identify this, and you seem to be brilliant.

Good luck!
 ravenhair4u
Joined: 8/13/2011
Msg: 70
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 8/27/2011 11:32:32 AM
Were you adopted? Abandonment issues are very common with adoptees. People can also have issues for a number of reasons, because of divorce, death, or a chaotic dysfunctional family life. I've also sabotaged relationships, & pushed a few good ones away, putting up a wall. I think the first step is you're aware of it. Maybe you can catch yourself starting to go there, you can take a step back, realize that, and slowly things will start to change, It's a complex issue & I dont know what the answer is.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 71
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 8/27/2011 12:23:26 PM
I used to think I had a fear of abandonment - I guess I did when I was younger, but now it's more that I know I can't count on anyone 100% to be there for me when I need them (and realistically it's not their job to either), so I'd rather not put myself in a place where that's the case. If I'm capable of depending on myself for most things, why then start to depend on someone else which, to me is less of a sure thing?

Sometimes in life someone comes along and does things for you and wants to take care of you...it's an easy trap to fall into to start liking and getting used to that. I don't see much good coming from that, for either person.

I have to be in a relationship where if it ends it doesn't upturn my life, so a person has to be able to walk away from me at any time without it phasing me or it can't continue (or I see it as unhealthy). No good comes from serious emotional dependency, at least as far as I'm concerned.

I enjoy people, I learn about them, I interact, and may even bond with and come to love them - but dependency is just a whole other thing.
 Artful22
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 72
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 8/27/2011 2:51:56 PM
Awareness that you are pushing away from a relationship due to inner emotional issues shows that you know you need to work out those issues lest the cycle keeps repeating. To be aware of your issues is the first step in resolving them.

However never discount instinct. I have found that whenever I instinctively push someone away it is a wise move. I don't always know completely why I want out at the time, but eventually it becomes clear. Sometimes we are smarter than we think!
 Rain587
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 73
Why do we sabotage relationships....
Posted: 8/27/2011 4:08:22 PM
See a Behavioral counselor.
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