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 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 193
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry MattersPage 5 of 30    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30)
the god of the bible seems in these times to be over most peoples heads.

I like to stick to the creator of all things for now to keep this discusion on track and simplified a bit, might be too much to ask for though.

I think that's the god most, but not all are referring to on this particular thread.

If you want to include the tooth fairy, santa, spaghetti monster, well, that might be a part of the reason we don't get anywhere with this discusion.
 Sportsfreak89
Joined: 12/28/2010
Msg: 194
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/14/2011 11:09:01 PM
God and the Devil are not living entities, but rather they are two balancing forces in our world that are personified. They cannot hear you, they cannot see you, they cannot speak to you. Instead their forces are inside all of us. We all have both good and bad in us. True there are those who are of one extreme or the other, but there is at least a little of both in everyone.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 195
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/14/2011 11:20:51 PM
so y'all don't want to skip the semantics and simply go with the creator of all things?

it would speed up the discussion you know.

go with the intent of the discussion, so to speak.

 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 196
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 2:44:44 AM
Alan, these creation "myths" are all passed down stories of Genesis. Just like what happened with the flood. There's many global flood legends from the list of cultures you listed too.
If you compare the flood legends to that of the Bible, they are very similar. A man and his family on a boat, saved the animals and repopulated the Earth. Just minor details like Noah's name has been changed.
Why are there global flood legends from many cultures around the world? Hmm. Maybe the global flood in Genesis was true! But of course you would never admit to that ;)
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 197
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 8:49:12 AM
"Continuing influence of misinformation" explains why there is little hope in communication of new ideas to people who are indoctrinated. This applies to religious people as well as Fox News viewers. No amount of corrective action will erase a misconception or piece of propaganda.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2011/07/11/3265013.htm

Every creation myth is just as valid as all the others. Just because some are in a temporary majority does not make that mythology superior. It has often taken much force and blood to re-enforce the mythology to maintain the myth.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 198
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 9:08:42 AM
Lol here we go with the "predate" card again. I've already shown that dating methods don't work and cannot be trusted, or were you too lazy to watch the video?

Oh well, you carry on believing a lie, that's up to you.

If it wasn't a global flood, the stories would be about a local flood, not a global one. If it were only local, no need to take on board all the animals and no need to build an ark. All they had to do was move.

Many people have produced evidence, it's up to you to look at it.

Because to have them vanish wouldn't leave any evidence. Noah didn't forget to bring dinosaurs, they were on the ark too. And no, they didn't eat other animals, since humans and all animals were still vegetarians then. And it's common sense to bring adolescents because they take up less room, eat less, foul less and produce more offspring when they get off the ark.

Animals can adapt to different conditions.
Just a quick quote I found from Wikipedia: "Tide pools are habitats of uniquely adaptable animals that have engaged the special attention of naturalists and marine biologists, as well as philosophical essayists".
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 199
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 9:42:53 AM
The largest wooden ship ever built was by Noah. Yes we are to believe that he was able to build a boat with guidance from God and that God would keep them safe inside it.

He didn't burn all the clean animals, just some of every kind. Leaving enough to reproduce.

The flood caused the ice age, giving animals passage to all continents.

There were some mountains before the flood, but the highest ones we have today such as Mount Everest didn't form until the after the flood. God drained the water from the land by sinking down the valleys (which became the oceans, seas, lakes and rivers) and raising mountains.

The water came from the heaven (sky) from the canopy of water (or ice), and from under the ground. Where did the water go? Erm, it's still here. In the oceans, the clouds, the north and south pole. If you take all the water and smooth all the land out flat, the water would easily cover the entire surface of the world.

Evidence - We find fossils of sea creatures on the tops of mountains.

He only took 2 of every kind, not species. Only needed a few thousand animals on board. Plenty of room.

They would have had food left from the Ark to eat until they were able to start growing food again - common sense.

Noah didn't have to go out and collect the animals, they came to him.

All these questions have already been covered and answered by many experts and scholars etc.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 200
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 9:58:11 AM
^^Nope...all those questions were answered by religious lunatics just making sh*t up.

Really...The Appalachians, Andes, Smokies, Alps and Himalayan mountains were pushed up 4000 years ago? You do work for the Onion right? For Betty Bowers? Landover Baptist Church? Surely someone cannot still believe this cr*p after all these years of evolution.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 202
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 10:47:14 AM

^^Nope...all those questions were answered by religious lunatics just making sh*t up.

Really...The Appalachians, Andes, Smokies, Alps and Himalayan mountains were pushed up 4000 years ago? You do work for the Onion right? For Betty Bowers? Landover Baptist Church? Surely someone cannot still believe this cr*p after all these years of evolution.


No I don't work for any of those, not heard of them either. Yes most people do not believe the Bible. But a lot of people do too.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 206
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 11:25:41 AM
I see Irregulator's gone off on another tanget. Why join in with the discussion pretending to know what I'm talking about, when you clearly don't?

Alan, you said "predates". Meaning they used dating methods...

So, who debunked the fact that fossils of sea creatures have been found on the tops of mountains?

2 of every kind of animal with breath in it's nostrils - so that includes dinosaurs. You quoted the scripture yourself.

Vegetarians :
1.Genesis 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
2.Genesis 1:30
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Then could eat meat after the flood:
Genesis 9:3
Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

We do not have to execute people for their sin. Jesus fulfilled the old law and gave His own in the NT.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 209
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 12:48:24 PM

Oh, but I do know "what" you are talking about


No you do not.
When I said that, it wasn't about your mention of Poe. It was about you referring something about ICR when I said about dating methods.

[quoteDidn't you already state that you believe that:

"Mount Everest didn't form until the after the flood. God drained the water from the land by sinking down the valleys (which became the oceans, seas, lakes and rivers) and raising mountains."

See, if you accept the latter as "truth", the former is just a loaded (and fallacious) question.

Er no. The whole reason mount Everest rose out of the flood is why it had buired sea creatures on top of it. When I said "after the flood", I was meaning at the end, when God brought forth the continents by rising and lowering land.


So far, all you have to say is, and I'll summarize: There is a god, because the bible says there is and it must be true because it's the word of god.


Nope, you forgot the rest of it which explains why the Bible is the word of God - which I've proved with science, and God's power. Choose to ignore it if you wish. I'm not going to repeat myself.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 211
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 12:54:41 PM
@MrCuickshank

God made them poisonous as a defence mchanism against predators. Man already knew which animals were safe to eat (the clean animals that went onto the ark).

Yes! Dragon is the old word for dinosaur. The word dinosaur wasn't invented until the 19th century. As we all know the many cultures around the world know about dragons. In old dictionaries they were classed as rare creatures.

I've not heard about boy-wizards in cultures, but of course witches also exist.

There is only one creation story in the Bible.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 213
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 1:25:09 PM
Beasts were made before and after man.
Beasts of the Earth were made before Adam. Then in Garden of Eden, God created more of each animal.
So Adam witnessed the creation of the Garden and animals.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 214
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 1:46:37 PM
Dear oh dear Alan. It's no wonder you're confused reading that website. Of course you can pick and choose passages of the Bible to suit your agenda to make it look evil. But it has to be taken as a whole.

And with regards to saying the Bible passages aren't proof, then you must be more clear with your questions. I do not know if you're asking why I believe such a thing, or asking for me to prove something. If it were a Christian asking me to prove something, I can just show them scruptire because they know the Bible in inffalible, like I do. But people like you do not realise this and so my answer wouldn't satisfy.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 216
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 9:12:17 PM
God exists because men are so lacking in joy, humour, wisdom, compassion and true intellect. Reason becomes a hammer in most men's hands to prove their very own, individual disenchantment, sorrow and bitterness. Intellect and reason do not offer more than a chancey dance to an oblivion based on intrepretation and some kind of gathering of knowledge that ignores the basis for the very breath they take. Such
friggen arrogance.
Oh, right! God does not exist and we will all be the techno-sapiens wet dream ..at middle age when we are eighty and alive and vibrant at one hundred. Yipee.
Men are sooooo lacking the wisdom of emotional common sense. Therefore, they cannot imagine even the prospect of the soul. Ack.
The Bible is a metaphor and every friggen religion anywhere supports a rational separate from the human species. What the heck is so hard about reaching beyond?
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 218
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 10:28:26 PM
Easier said than done.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 220
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/15/2011 11:21:32 PM
Anyone with even a smidgin of brain understands that the problem is not those offensive evangelists and profit making christians and etc. If you believe that you can buy your way to anywhere but nowhere ....you deserve what you get.
BUT.
Put your hat on and do not hurry. Letting go simply means putting some really good air and distance between yourself and all of your beliefs. Be they atheistic or christian. Amen.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 222
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/16/2011 12:32:36 AM
Trivia is also what you freely choose to post. I am not nonsensical within any strict definition and you are ...wrong. Ooops...I challenged you. So what?
Here is my Latin for you....opus coronat not finis. My definition and declaration.
 Bodhicycle
Joined: 6/8/2011
Msg: 224
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/16/2011 4:32:21 PM
I've skimmed a bunch of this and its the same arguments used since Socrates with the exception of some psuedoscience thrown in.

If the existence of a Universal Planner and Conscious Guiding Force were emperically proven tomorrow it wouldn't help krebby one bit. There have been thousands of gods worshipped by humans, and Ra was and has been worshipped more than 8000 yrs. and anyone of them or one humans cannot imagine would just as likely be that all powerful force.

Now a worthwhile argument that xtians should be able to prove, but as yet have no evidence is the existance of Jesus. Can't say Jesus of Nazareth since the NT even disagrees on that. Just a Jew named Jesus that is the object of the religion. All evidence is after his death second/hundredth hand accounts with no supporting evidence current from his supposed time of life by Romans, Jews or Zoriastrians. Only his "followers" from 100 yrs later thought enough about 'him' to write it down. Like all religions, the story is whats important to the followers not the facts.
 Backlum_Chaam_Wang
Joined: 1/27/2011
Msg: 226
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On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/17/2011 7:54:02 AM
Well said. Very well said
 Bodhicycle
Joined: 6/8/2011
Msg: 227
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/17/2011 8:44:04 AM
Wow, I wish I'd said something like that! I was shooting for the much more simple reasoning that since most religions are mutually exclusive they cannot all or even more than one be correct. Therefore all of the other were created by humans for some purpose or another(ok perhaps the universal consciousness provides direction in the form of saints, saviors, prophets, buddhas and poet/intellectuals for every situation).

Simple deduction says if all but one were created by humans, all were created by humans.
 Bodhicycle
Joined: 6/8/2011
Msg: 228
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/17/2011 9:27:55 AM
Agreed. I was tipping my hat to the idea of the Master Program from pj121. Didn't say it was so just said perhaps if there were a Master Program it might have program inhancement routines that attempt to bring harmony or cohesive interoperatbility to subroutines that add to the overall function of the system.
 Bodhicycle
Joined: 6/8/2011
Msg: 229
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/17/2011 1:05:19 PM
I started a thread here along the lines of what if that you might enjoy. Adding to your thought here, Stephen Pinker's the Blank Slate spends a great deal of his intellectual capital to prove that the need for religion is 'hard wired' in the human animal. He proposes that 250,000 of group think, shared values and the ability of religion to provide shared impetus toward goals has made it a selected trait in modern homo sapiens. Of course that doesn't put a higher value on one religion over the other or suggest that the myths behind the belief system have any validity. As with most psychology, particularly archealogical socialogy with a psychological twist, any "proofs' are only a little better than guess work, but it is worth reading even if boring as hell. Well, it is boring as hell and probably not worth reading but....
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 232
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/17/2011 7:28:12 PM

To do what? Worthy mentions are located in Chile (Gemini being one of them). Hubble (now in a phase of upgrading) is another. It all depends on what yore trying to do with it. But perhaps Stargazer can answer this question. Ain't my area.


Microscope or telescope? Two completely different scales. But Gemini is definitely two of the better (north and south versions), Keck...couple others. Hubble is in its last legs. With the demise of the shuttle program, that will be the end of Hubble once its systems start to fail. However, plans are on the drawing board for plus-10 meter telescopes which will provide even more amazing ground-based astronomy. Unfortunately, the James Webb Space Telescope has been cancelled even thouggh its been mostly built. Gotta love the waste of taxpayers money, eh?
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 233
On the Existence of God and Other Sundry Matters
Posted: 7/17/2011 8:53:42 PM
O.k. ...build another telescope. Name a star after me. Start up the shuttle.
Forget that the body of the disenfranchised and lacking is growing and growing.
Where will they all go? Oh probably to some field and dance their way to a final demise.
Policies being set by the fortunate. Aren't we lucky? I am positive that the problem will be addressed in a democratic, fair and just way. Right. How about Africa? They just starve to death. Apparently in some scientific study shame does not work as a motivator. Appealing to the discipline and goodness in a person has better results. Well....I ain't convinced. I am hopeful though. Did you know that portions of Africa is again in the midst of a great suffering?
God exists over and beyond the rainbow while the earth goes to hell in a handbasket. I have that much faith. Really. God never existed in the turgid language of most of the bible. But in the beautiful language that the bible offers.....God lives. Pick and choose wisely. Actually....the turgid language of the bible often bounces off the reflection you set in the mirror that is reality. Sloth, adultery, blah de blah, pride, injustice, etc, etc, ...ad naseaum. lol. Oh...blazing consequences for fornication. lol (even louder)
Then there is the other isms. Frankly they also address matters of physical desire , ego and attachment. Pick and choose. Its all the same soup.
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