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 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 51
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.Page 3 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

But that's because they have a lot more invested. Naturally is they are investing more then it's only natural for them to expect a bigger return on their investment.


Oh, stop it.

That is such a ridiculous generalization.

Why the hell is it that only the woman can have reasonable expectations? Women yap about their needs incessantly, and how much they "invest" in a relationship, but should there not be some consideration for the guy who has to put up with her and her demands?

Why does the relationship have to revolve around her?

I don't understand it any better now than when I was living with a woman which is the main reason I'll never live with another woman.

 Archangel_07
Joined: 6/21/2010
Msg: 52
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/16/2011 8:34:17 PM
People who want more than what they have are never going to be happy people. That's run by greed, not matter how full your stomach is it's never enough till ya explode with gluttony.
 bullielover62
Joined: 12/2/2006
Msg: 53
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/17/2011 7:58:16 AM

Women seem to have given this topic much thought over the years and have a whole lot of get off their chest. I usually get my eyes glossed over trying to read long posts but these have been quite informative.


There's a big difference between putting a lot of thought into a subject and actually changing one's behavior to match all the brain activity.

I find most women will dissect, over analyze, criticize, rinse and repeat... and not put what they've processed into action.

*most* women.........

Just like *most men* won't spend time analyzing anything unless it benefits their end result... usually being sexually gratified or fed. *snort~

The problem, as I see it, is that most won't do the hard work ON SELF once their expectations aren't met... and instead will blame and victimize as though they had nothing to do with the outcome.

Letting go of our expectations of others and taking ownership in our OWN actions leaves very little room for blame.


bullie~
 TDH49
Joined: 8/13/2010
Msg: 54
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/17/2011 9:32:59 AM

Just like *most men* won't spend time analyzing anything unless it benefits their end result... usually being sexually gratified or fed. *snort~
I have learned to be accountable for my own actions over the years. Whenever a relationship I am involved with end I ALWAYS make sure I take 51 percent of the blame for it ending. Sometimes I may take a lot more than 51 percent, but I will NEVER take less. This stop me from playing the blame game, while it also forces me to do some self inventory. See what my role was in the demise of said relationship and what I can correct in my own behaviour to prevent it from happening in future relationships.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 55
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Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/17/2011 10:38:24 AM
Just like *most men * won't spend time analyzing anything unless it benefits their end results... usually being sexually gratified or fed. * snort~



I thank God, I have not yet meet that kind of a man, I hope I will never meet one that HIS capabilities in life is reduced in mating and food like a Boar or a Rooster.

My Mother was wise , she said to me,if you want to meet a good quality man be a good quality yourself when you speak and act towards a man..
 RazaMixta
Joined: 1/19/2011
Msg: 56
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/17/2011 12:54:13 PM

have you women ever lived with other women in a serious relationship?


silly ^^^ Of course we have! And we understand each other's needs quite well ...


The colour of the walls don't have to change every 6 months, nor does the flooring, the furniture, the car, the wardrobe or any of the other million things that women find unsatisfying.

Agreed! And not all women fit the above description. That sounds to me like a woman who is, at the core dissatisfied with herself, rather than it being the norm or even gender specific.
Perhaps a man who is dissatisfied with himself would chose to be promiscuous... who knows.

... and, it's NOT the guy's fault all the time.

Of course it isn't!
Don't forget that this thread is about why women are less happy in marriage/relationship.... It gives women an opportunity to reflect and openly discuss their experiences and views and hopefully not about man bashing.
I think if a man is seriously interested in having an intimate and lasting relationship with a woman he would be paying close attention to this thread, with discernment of course as there is plenty of bitterness coming from both genders

Personally, I love being with men. I have multiple times more guy-friends than girl-friends. I have a lot more fun (in many ways) with my sons than with my daughters. Perhaps because I understand women so well and men are such fascinating mystery to me.
I respect all men, but have such high admiration for the selflessness and intelligence of the man who understands that by communicating, cherishing and keeping his woman happy he keeps his whole world happy. Those of you who are bitter will scoff at this thought that when a woman is truly loved she melts, she gives back a hundred fold.
Perhaps what some men don't understand is what is "under the hood" of a woman. We are immensely strong, resilient, intuitive, creative and have a limitless capacity to give. But when mistreated or neglected we dry up, feel hopeless, wilt ... even get resentful and desperate.


"But that's because they have a lot more invested. Naturally is they are investing more then it's only natural for them to expect a bigger return on their investment".

Oh, stop it.

That is such a ridiculous generalization.

It is a generalization! But it's not ridiculous. Women invest themselves completely right from the start. Sex alone puts them be at risk. Contraception is unnatural and generally harsh on her body. STDs have far worse consequences for her body than his. Pregnancy is another risk... and it doesn't get any more personal than that. He will never understand the demands of a pregnancy and the profound changes in her body, mind and soul.

Why the hell is it that only the woman can have reasonable expectations? Women yap about their needs incessantly, and how much they "invest" in a relationship, but should there not be some consideration for the guy who has to put up with her and her demands?

Clearly the above statement, given the choice of words, comes from pain and misunderstanding. Men can and should have expectations too and they deserve all the consideration in the world, but it has nothing to do with "putting up" with anything.

I think people are more diverse and individual, I and don't agree with labeling women as thinking one way and men as thinking another. Marriages don't work for a lot of reasons; I don't think that women expecting a fairy tale is one of them. Often, women spend many years in a marriage with a lot of non-fairy tale stuff, like abuse, alcoholism, poverty, illness, etc. To suggest that they bale or give the man a hard time because life is not like a fairy tale is really insulting.

Agree with the above .... and it goes both ways of course.


Why does the relationship have to revolve around her?

Because it is women that make your world go around, and it all began with your mother.

Countless times it seems, young or even in old age, men have been heard to moan "mommy" while deliriously in pain when coming out of anesthesia or wounded in war.
 bullielover62
Joined: 12/2/2006
Msg: 57
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/17/2011 1:42:59 PM

I have learned to be accountable for my own actions over the years. Whenever a relationship I am involved with end I ALWAYS make sure I take 51 percent of the blame for it ending. Sometimes I may take a lot more than 51 percent, but I will NEVER take less. This stop me from playing the blame game, while it also forces me to do some self inventory. See what my role was in the demise of said relationship and what I can correct in my own behaviour to prevent it from happening in future relationships.


You are the anomaly, my friend..........
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 58
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/17/2011 1:46:55 PM

silly ^^^ Of course we have! And we understand each other's needs quite well ...


So, you've all been married to other women? Like had sex with them and everything?

... us guys love that girl on girl stuff ....


I respect all men, but have such high admiration for the selflessness and intelligence of the man who understands that by communicating, cherishing and keeping his woman happy he keeps his whole world happy. Those of you who are bitter will scoff at this thought that when a woman is truly loved she melts, she gives back a hundred fold.


But, again, by this you are stating that it is only the guy who is at fault when things fall apart. If a guy tries constantly to make his woman happy, my experience is that it sets up a dynamic that REALLY is not good. She demands, he jumps. She loses respect for him.

I'm with the crowd that says that no one can "make" anyone else happy, that we are responsible for our own happiness. And, I really think that many women find way too many things to be unhappy about when they're in a relationship.

As someone mentioned above, I think women tend to over analyse and over think relationships much more than men do, which tends to lead them to find things they are dissatisfied with.


We are immensely strong, resilient, intuitive, creative and have a limitless capacity to give. But when mistreated or neglected we dry up, feel hopeless, wilt ... even get resentful and desperate.


Of course you are and of course you do...

... why is it so difficult for so many women to understand that is pretty much the same with men?


It is a generalization! But it's not ridiculous. Women invest themselves completely right from the start.


And, once again, you assume that men do not invest themselves to the same degree and that women are the wonderful, shiny, communicative, paragons of virtue in relationships.

It just ain't true. Every hetero marriage that breaks apart involves a woman. Odds are that she had some hand in the breakup.



Why does the relationship have to revolve around her?


Because it is women that make your world go around, and it all began with your mother.


And, there it is.... If the woman's not happy, no one in the family's happy. Her needs come first, always...

... got it....

Cheers.

 RazaMixta
Joined: 1/19/2011
Msg: 59
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/17/2011 3:00:24 PM

have you women ever lived with other women in a serious relationship?

silly ^^^ Of course we have! And we understand each other's needs quite well ...

So, you've all been married to other women? Like had sex with them and everything?

... us guys love that girl on girl stuff ....


Living with other women: mothers, sisters, cousins, grandmas, roommates, friends... they are all serious, intimate relationships to me! Sex has nothing to do with anything.

Hmmm! Maybe this is a clue??
Maybe men too much value in just sex?



... why is it so difficult for so many women to understand that is pretty much the same with men?
I don't know why it is hard for some people... I get that, I truly do!

Women invest themselves completely right from the start.

And, once again, you assume that men do not invest themselves to the same degree and that women are the wonderful, shiny, communicative, paragons of virtue in relationships.
It just ain't true. Every hetero marriage that breaks apart involves a woman. Odds are that she had some hand in the breakup.

It is not an assumption, it is a reality that women do invest more of their personal selves. Nature requires that. It is even expected in our society. You can go out anytime and see the difference in grooming between a man and a woman, especially in the younger generation:
She dyed her hair, straightened it, used a bazillion products to get it just right... then there is all that make up, the carefully chosen clothes (that don't make her look fat), the teeth whiteners/mouthwash, all the shaving, the stockings, the HIGH heels, the expensive bags, the manicures and pedicures... (I'm already exhausted)... etc. etc. all for one night out....
The guys, unshaven, with bed-head, wrinkly clothes and baggy pants, don't smell too good, dirty teeth... and yes these are the styles of today. How symbolic!
I don't like blaming but, whose fault is that???
WOMEN'S!!
We chose this, we accepted it, we subscribed to it and in most cases we are doing all the work. I saw it in my own home, my mom ... the homemaker who cooked-cleaned-sewed our clothes-knitted our winter sweaters and worked hard at our store from 8am to 9 pm monday to saturday ... and like her soooooo many!!! Too many!
And we are demanding of you??

Yes, I agree, it takes two ... a man and a woman. Two that are compatible, respectful, caring...
Both of them not blaming but being responsible for themselves and to each other by being lovable.
The real problem here is plain old fear of giving and big old selfishness ... everybody's.

capitano_blaugh I mostly agree with you. And I am glad that you "got it"... (lol)
after all there must be order in the universe ... no?
 Iced1071
Joined: 7/2/2011
Msg: 60
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/17/2011 3:56:01 PM
I wouldn't say its gender specific because men do care about the future and plan accordingly for it too...

honestly, I believe the issue is communication..

the best relationships i've noticed is where both parties and can be completely open and honest with each other - they don't have a friends where they go "hey don't tell him/her about this" or anything to hide.
 good_catch77
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 61
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/17/2011 8:27:12 PM
Just a footnote with the fairy tale, I've been looking for Cinderella and all I've gotten is the Evil Step Sisters. So I know how you ladies feel when you look for the Knight and get a Jester. So let's have a or 12 and break even

But any hoots, I can say in GENERAL this is true TDH, we can sit here and say a specific situation or two but over all the majority is what we go by when we come up with something like this.
 TDH49
Joined: 8/13/2010
Msg: 62
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/19/2011 6:37:08 AM
Yes, I agree, it takes two ... a man and a woman. Two that are compatible, respectful, caring...
Both of them not blaming but being responsible for themselves and to each other by being lovable.
The real problem here is plain old fear of giving and big old selfishness ... everybody's
Excellent point.
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 2/21/2010
Msg: 63
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/19/2011 7:06:03 AM
I agree, but not so much on the fairy tale. I had some very specific plans and dreams and related these to my husband before remarriage, Getting me to remarry, from my point of view, was nothing short of miraculous and had everything to do with those plans and dreams. He went with the flow. We tried, things were in the way, he kept adjusting and I kept pulling back to, uh, plans and dreams, dude, the goals????? He's confused, uh, I love you, you love me, kinda busy, doing other things right now so what's the problem???

Our first and only fight.

I didn't sign up for this.

He's ambitious, but he gets caught up in day to day adjustments. I initially blamed it on our ages, I'm middleaged, I really feel I need to get this stuff DONE, behind on my retirement and all. He's young, he's got time, he wants me to quit work, go back to school to do what I love and let him be my retirement. Oh, like *that's* gonna happen. I want him to quit or scale back and go to school. Oh, like *that's* gonna happen. The real issue is that with both of us doing little bits of school, both of us working at 24/7 facilities with rarely matching days off, out time together is rare.

This isn't what I signed up for.

He says, relax, things will change. He says, I love you, you love me, so there's no problem.

I say the problem is HUGE because I love him and he loves me.

So, yeah, OP, it's gender, I have known many women to walk out of relationships unhappy with the relationship but still loving the man, and the man never understanding what the problem was.

Now that I think about it, every serious relationship ended over my dissatisfaction with the relationship. I did not go in just because of love...... I love several men friends that I could shift to the sexual at anytime. I go in because I believe I will be getting certain needs met. When I cannot get those met and he just will not meet me halfway because love should be enough......

The good news for me, after our fight, he met me halfway, we made a bunch of changes and he switched from someday mode on plans and dremas to daily doing a little something so we could show progress.

And we found more time for eachother. Because isn't that a big part of a relationship, relating?
 ForRumOnly
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 64
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Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/19/2011 7:09:47 AM
Very generally speaking, I think women (by biology and evolution) tend to be more family/inward directed, and men tend to be more outward directed.

If that's true, women will expect more of the relationship and notice if the man seems to be neglecting it or focused elsewhere. Men will tend not to notice details in the relationship, so may be viewed as neglectful or unsupportive (not helping out at home, for example). So, yes, women may be less satisfied while at the same time men think all is well.

Most separations and divorces are initiated by women, I think. Which would make sense if what I said is true.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 65
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/19/2011 8:00:41 AM
There's one sure fire issue that will make women very unhappy and expect a lot more from the guy: The cardinal sin of forgetting to go to the dollar store and buying a birthday card on her birthday. That's hell on earth for women and could be the beginning of the end. The second worst sin a guy can do is forgetting the anniversary date and not getting a card for that too. The other issue before the "I Do"'s takes place is the size of the diamonds on the ring that every woman flashes in the face of other women. It's a competition to see who can flash the biggest diamonds. There's a good chance the "I Do" never takes place if a guy doesn't buy a ring or buy a ring that's up to par.

It's funny how so many issues with women are non-issues with guys. If a woman forgets a guy's birthday, the guy will say "It's OK. As long as I get beer and sex, all is good". Ditto for anniversaries. And when was the last time a guy had an issue with not getting baubles as a prize for getting engaged?
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 66
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Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/19/2011 10:43:38 AM

He says, relax, things will change. He says, I love you, you love me, so there's no problem.

I say the problem is HUGE because I love him and he loves me.

So, yeah, OP, it's gender, I have known many women to walk out of relationships unhappy with the relationship but still loving the man, and the man never understanding what the problem was.


^^^Isn't this it exactly? Great post.

When we're invested, the glue that keeps us,seems almost fractional---many bits that weave the relationship into that which binds. Many women innately think in ways that are attentive to details, they pick up subtelties and cues and react to that information whether vocalizing or not. Men often operate under some sort of "generally-satisfied' or accepting mode with respect to what they have going on in life and that often includes their relationships.

I completely understand that not all men have the capacity to see or recognize when things are going wrong, because the problem for women may often lie in those bits that seem inconsequential and often lie outside of his radar. He's focusing on covering off the big picture stuff...and so if that's all working --what's the problem?

Are women to blame because of this? Not necessarily. Most men grow up understanding this about the women in their life--they think differently...place emphasis on things that they'd never consider. They grow up understanding what seems like the 'irrationality' about women, just as women often have the reverse exposure to 'big picture' stuff through growing up with the men that are part of their world. Yes these are generalizations, but as with stereotypes, there does tend to always be something that rings true and is a noticeable pattern.

In the end it's how our coming together complements our nature/nuture selves and ways of being. I also think that with age comes a lot of tolerance, understanding and coming to grips with all sorts of innate 'truths' that make statements such as, "yes dear"...."happy wife, happy life" the kind of 'truisms' they are.
 karma1160
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 67
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/19/2011 11:37:12 AM
I think it depends on the age of the woman personally.
I think once a person is done haveing children, they are more likely to view someone as they appear to them, rather than as how they fit in their fantasy.
I do think that you are right in that aspect.
I don't neccessarily think, that you are right when it comes to the fact that men just go with the flow.
I think men go through stages in their lives just like women, and there is a point where they take off the rose colored glasses and say hmm I need more.
The way they go about that change makes all the difference.

The whole ebb and flow of a relationship is survived by maintenance.
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 2/21/2010
Msg: 68
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/19/2011 1:05:36 PM
About the cards, annivery remembering, the holidays...

I don't think that is a gender then, it is a family thing. We are unfocussed on these in my family, and sometimes it can be a struggle to remember my own birthday. I don't do holidays much, though I have tried at times and I have my small traditions. My stepmother is holiday, birthday, cards and letters needy and simple efforts have gone a long way to put our relationship on a good footing. I sent her cheap stickers for her to put on cards that she sends out. Wow, what a huge effect! So she was happy, so my daddy was happy....

But neither my daddy nor mom, nor the woman I call "Mom" , nor their family before or after, of both genders, are focussed on any kind of anniversary.

My husband, though, dammit. When people ask how long we have been married, he'll tell you to the day, and with a little hesitation, to the hour. Cards, holidays.....and he views my attention to this as evidence of my investment in our relationship, as I know several men in my past have, and men friends I know now, as well.

We came to an understanding that he sees all the evidence of investment I do when not reminded or obligated, and his pre-planning for these scheduled moments is evidence of his, we each have our own way of expressing our investment.

I think that the trouble comes when no small effort is made to express one's feelings in a way that is meaningful to the other AND when the other expects their partner to conform to their ways as evidence.

People tend to marry who complements them, but they are unaware of that. They are aware of the compliments, instead, and they place far too much emphasis on that. A relationship is not founded in regard of the rose blossom, but grounded in the deep roots of the rose bush that can grow as tall and strong as any shade tree, given time.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 69
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/19/2011 4:59:47 PM

(RazaMixta) Living with other women: mothers, sisters, cousins, grandmas, roommates, friends... they are all serious, intimate relationships to me! Sex has nothing to do with anything.


The bolded sentence should be filed under, "Just Doesn't Get It". The intimate relationship between a man and a woman is unlike any other; and, sex most certainly has a very significant role in the definition of that relationship...

Arlo...
 cashleys
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 70
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/19/2011 8:50:36 PM
I agree, I think most men are pretty simple in their thinking. :go with the flow", with an occasional cheating episode. It is nothing new, this has been this way for many decades.
All and all I do not think we as humans were ever meant to have just one person be the ALL and everything in our lives. We are living much longer and in a faster pace world. Society and religion has us thinking that we must have ONE mate, but it just might not be in our genectic makeup.
 VacationGuy234
Joined: 8/1/2008
Msg: 71
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/20/2011 7:27:26 AM
I agree with the overall theory. I think what makes it difficult is that we create the fairy tale, but they really dictate what the fairy tale should be. The problem is that the fairy tale is not very well communicated and in the end two people are following two very different stories.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 72
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Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/20/2011 8:58:11 AM

What she said was "women are stupid".

My girlfriend told me, many times, that "men are stupid". I didn't take it as gospel, and assume it applied to all men.

men need to realize that women are actually very easy to figure out. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WANT

Take a look at these here forums, some day ... we've got men complaining that women won't work, men complaining that women want to work instead of raising a family. We've got men complaining that they are expected to be the breadwinners and "make all the moves" and other men complaining because they can't find a woman who'll let herself be "taken care of", and claiming that women who "chase" men are desperate and easy (and probably old and fat, to boot). We've got men bemoaning women's lack of feminity, and bemoaning women who are "high maintenance" who spend too much time and money on their hair, makeup, clothes.

So tell me ... WHO doesn't know what they want?

OT: I think you make a good point about the "fairy tale" aspect, especially when people are younger - and I think it applies to men as well as women. There are expectations on men that they'll be able to "slay dragons" to save the woman, as well as add to his reputation and value as a strong and able man. I don't think the expectations on either side are conscious and they can wreak havoc on relationships.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 73
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/20/2011 11:14:49 AM

Take a look at these here forums, some day ... we've got men complaining that women won't work, men complaining that women want to work instead of raising a family. We've got men complaining that they are expected to be the breadwinners and "make all the moves" and other men complaining because they can't find a woman who'll let herself be "taken care of", and claiming that women who "chase" men are desperate and easy (and probably old and fat, to boot). We've got men bemoaning women's lack of feminity, and bemoaning women who are "high maintenance" who spend too much time and money on their hair, makeup, clothes.

So tell me ... WHO doesn't know what they want?


And for every one of these examples I can show at least one for the female gender.

At the core of this is the penchant for females to want change and men that want consistency.

I can't count the number of times I have heard a man say....She said I'm not the man she married......That is after all the changes she made to him over the years. Yet she will take no responsibility for the man he has became because of her input.

I mean the person that spends the most time with another surly has the biggest effect on them.

So to answer the question I believe women are less happy with marriage than men....However it is because of unrealistic expectations. If both genders are realistic and dedicated to each other they can work through this maze called life together.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 74
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Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/20/2011 11:39:45 AM

And for every one of these examples I can show at least one for the female gender.

My point exactly .... it isn't a gender thing.

I can't count the number of times I have heard a man say....She said I'm not the man she married

Yup, me too ... usually, its because he's forgotten how to pay attention to her OR the relationship. Before "catching" the girl, he's attentive, remembers to phone when he's gonna be late, easily expresses his more affectionate feelings, wears clean clothes, shaves regularly, makes an effort to nurture the relationship. After the relationship is established, he gradually forgets all those niceties and starts assuming that the relationship is fine, she's just biatching because it's 'that time of month' or 'its just the way women are'.

This lack of care isn't limited to men, though - many men feel that having got her man, 'she let herself go' or 'she's not interested in sex the way she used to be'.

My point is that both men and women have unrealistic expecatations, and pointing a finger at one does not lead to any kind of mutual understanding.
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 2/21/2010
Msg: 75
Women are less happy in marriage/relationships than men because they expect much more?.
Posted: 7/20/2011 8:25:57 PM
I know what I want. I cannot say that I always have known, and I can say that I am willing to compromise on a lot of things.

Let's say that I have a list of 100 items in order of priority. Now, two guys have 50 of each, is that even No, if one has his share on my lower priorities and the other has his 50 on my higher priorities, we have a clear winner. But it is rarely that clear.

Two men, both have quite a lot of what I desire, but not everything. Both want me. There's some figuring out to do, and because I take the time to do it, does not mean that I am confused or that I don't know what I want, it means that, to me, deciding on a long term relationship should not be taken lightly.

What I am curious about is the gender difference of seeing what women want as "more" or somehow in excess or unnecessary and extraneous fluff.

What women tend to want is DIFFERENT from what a man wants, but I do not believe that I, nor masses of women over the eons have miscommunicated this. Going in to marriage, men know that the woman wants him to relate to her. He just figures that she will eventually relax, or that he can change or, or that he can somehow dance around it.

So the woman goes in with this clear and obvious and regularly voiced need, he tells her he wants to make her happy, she signs up right along with him. Then when she realizes that not only is he never going to relate to her, he is never going to try and never intended to, is it really so shocking that she feels betrayed, she does not want to work it out (as in repeat the delusion and deception) and she is dissatisfied?

But his reaction, typically, obviously not always, is to point out that women always try to change men.

I know a lot of women chase a guy thinking they will change him. In my experience, though men will sell themselves as whomever it takes to get the woman, then they will revert, regardless of any sincere intentions to be the "better man" that she supposedly "made" him want to be. So she wants him to be the better man he had sold to her, and he wants to be the man he is, and be loved as that man, and not be changed by her.

What a mess.
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