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Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?      Home login  
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 The_Standard_Model
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 276
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the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?Page 12 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
Wow. It seems that you would rather argue the semantics than the actual point being made. The Op is aying that learning those sort of skills (whatever name that you decide to put to them) will give you better success in dating. The idea that she is putting forward is that you can view your position from a point of weakness and having no control, or from a point of strength and having a lot of control. it is up to you.


I've never read so much nonsense!

I don't know about you Canam, but I was taught social skills from the age of 3 or 4 upwards by my parents, incoporating good manners for starters, amongst other things. Basic teachings indeed, and absolutely nothing to do with keeping up with "current news and events" and being "interesting" in any social circle.

That's right. We were taught basic social skills, but we are expected to continue to learn other social skills to fit in with other social circles. For instance the social skills that we were taught in the first grade willnot suffice in high school. the social skills that we learn in high school will not cut the mustard in prison. The social skills you would learn in prison are not the same social skills that will help you in a professional setting and those social skills will not help you in the socail setting of dating. Dealing with men/women in a romantic setting is a social event. it requires a set of social skills. the ability to approach and talk with a member of the opposite sex, convey interest in them in a socially acceptable manner and determine if they are interested or not. those that develop these social skills will have more success in the dating world than those who do not. it has little to do with looks, or money. What is considered advanced skills from what we learned at 3-4.


Even the most intelligent people on the planet [academia] can lack social skills and even be downright boring, but ironically (or maybe not) end up meeting and god knows falling in love (wonder if the OP knows what that is!) with their equal or someone less than their equal, academically and in other departments.

Yes and they often tend to be boring as hell. They generally advance their other skills at the expense of their social skills. paris Hylton on the other hand is not that bright but has tremendous social skills!! That is basically why she is famous. Her ability to generate and maintain the interest of others.


Social skills (which Cinsav summed up perfectly) are usually picked up at a young age and cultivated from that point onwards, but there's a cut of point as an adult where you're either adequately equipped with those skills or you aren't. A lot of people, regardless of their class, upbringing and education, don't have these skills - but it doesn't stop them getting ahead in life.

No. There is no cut off point. There is a point where sociaty will accept you, but many, many people continue to develop their social skills beyond that point. Some use them to attract others to them, some use them for professional benifit and some actually use them to become wealthy (professional speakers, polititians, actors, reality show celebrities and the new breed of just 'social' celebrities, con artists, sales men and many many other people that specialize in people liking them, trusting them and wanting to know about what they think and are doing). having social skills does not men that you get ahead in life. Many boorish people get ahead in life and many charming people do not. you are referring to a different sort of social skills than what you are taught at 3-4 years old. The social skills being discussed are the ability to understand and effectively manuveur in particular social settings. including one- on -one settings (like appraoching and attracting a woman).


And then there's charm. Charm comes in many different guises. It's a long list. A homeless person can have lots of charm, but by god it won't guarantee them a roof over their head any time soon!

We are talking about a different level of charming. As in the list that came with the definition that I posted. truly charming people, as in really charming people are almost hypnotic. Hitler was charming, Nelson Mandela is charming, Martin Luthor King was charming, Sarah Palin ( I hate to say it)is charming. People that understand how to open their mouths and 'charm' the listener. No it will not guarantee a roof over their head. Those are life skills, not social skills.


And then there's the extremely attractive woman with an engineering degree, who seems to have it all, but very possibly no charm whatsoever.

Perhaps, yet she has really not played much part in this conversation at all and she seems to have elicted such an emotional reaction that maybe she is charming. A recnt poster went so far as to say that she was kicking guys when they were down. Her post seems to have garnered quite the response from men here, so maybe she is more charming than we give her credit for.
 87Mippy
Joined: 8/10/2011
Msg: 277
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 8/19/2011 1:28:24 AM
All I can say is BE PICKY!!! Who ever tells you you need to set your standards lower, needs to get real with there self, they need to look at what they really want instead of settling for the first girl that talks to them on this site, seriously!
Being picky is 100% okay, so go on girl! Keep your head up high and look for the guy that has all the qualities your looking for. Yes it might just take a little longer, but he is really out there, and he is also looking for you, as well. :D
You just have to go through a few losers to get to that guy you've been dreaming about.
So please don't give up the good fight and remember what you want is what you can get if you work hard for it ^^.
 MNSeeker
Joined: 9/19/2010
Msg: 278
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the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 8/20/2011 7:07:31 AM
Hello, I was reading your forum post on defining a "nice guy." I just want to say I agree with your views. But I wonder if taking "time" to come toknow each other builds a stronger more rewarding realtionship to last the trials and tribulation of time? To me to say "I love you" early in the relationship might be the feeling of the moment, but will those same feelings be there 6 mpnths, a year, even a lifetime later. I believe that a persons true personilty shows through the mask they wear to cast the image they want you to see over time as you come to know them.
Just some thoughts ...
Rick
 Truth09
Joined: 7/1/2010
Msg: 279
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 8/20/2011 7:27:26 AM

All I can say is BE PICKY!!! Who ever tells you you need to set your standards lower, needs to get real with there self, they need to look at what they really want instead of settling for the first girl that talks to them on this site, seriously!
Being picky is 100% okay, so go on girl! Keep your head up high and look for the guy that has all the qualities your looking for. Yes it might just take a little longer, but he is really out there, and he is also looking for you, as well. :D
You just have to go through a few losers to get to that guy you've been dreaming about.
So please don't give up the good fight and remember what you want is what you can get if you work hard for it ^^.


Right,because we need more picky,self righteous girls on this site. Great advice.
 raggadie
Joined: 6/18/2011
Msg: 280
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 8/20/2011 10:02:38 AM
Picky is fine , if ones self is reasonable.

Picky and ridiculous is another.
 totalazzhole
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 281
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 8/20/2011 10:07:46 AM

All I can say is BE PICKY!!! Who ever tells you you need to set your standards lower, needs to get real with there self, they need to look at what they really want instead of settling for the first girl that talks to them on this site, seriously!


someone with a master's degree, working in fast food? sure, I'll take your advice..not.

I know people who are SO "picky" they are still single at age 50..maybe they'll find that "special someone" --"Mr/Ms. Right" sometime before they die

or maybe not? life on earth IS finite, you realize?
 psytle
Joined: 3/7/2011
Msg: 282
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the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 8/20/2011 10:51:29 AM

Picky is fine , if ones self is reasonable.

Picky and ridiculous is another.


So who, exactly, determines the distinction between what is reasonable and what is ridiculous? The person who isn't attracted to the other person? Or the person who believes that no one has the right to reject them?

Oh...OHHHHH.
 raggadie
Joined: 6/18/2011
Msg: 283
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 8/20/2011 11:08:49 AM

So who, exactly, determines the distinction between what is reasonable and what is ridiculous? The person who isn't attracted to the other person? Or the person who believes that no one has the right to reject them?

Oh...OHHHHH.


Read message 294
 cinsav
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 284
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 8/29/2011 8:02:15 PM

Men, this is a trap. She has baited the line to see who would bite. She has some of you guys fighting over her already. She needs attention and this is how she gets it(looks like for years now).


I have to agree with this.
 Natgoat
Joined: 3/24/2011
Msg: 285
The nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 8/29/2011 9:06:59 PM
Sure! I'll put in the time...IF...she will give me The Chance to have a conversation and find out what I'm like..!!
I fall in love a dozen times a week, here....but if the women are more than 60 miles away...so I always get the old "You're too far away!!" -line...
IF they reply At All..!!
I'd be Glad to relocate, but haven't been given the opportunity to discuss that..!!
 SpryO3
Joined: 6/20/2011
Msg: 286
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/2/2011 12:44:58 AM
I don't have the time to read all 13 pages of replies, but I'm still throwing in my two cents still for anyone who might read this.


"Yes, you might be nice, but…"
1 "…are you educated?"
I understand being educated is important, but you can have intelligence and still not go to college. It's not my choice, but it's very true. I've met very clever and smart people who are just awesome and guess what? They didn't get an education past high school. GASP! How on earth did that happen!?!


2. "…do you have a career instead of a job?"
I'm attending college for a career so your logic here doesn't apply to the younger crowd on this site who only can do mediocre jobs. If a younger person has a career that early in life, then he or she either shot through college or skipped the education you really wanted them to have. Even still, making a living and being responsible enough to hold a job is a definite character trait in any person, no matter what the job is (except for people who have assistants, I mean, get your own coffee you lazies!)


3. "…do you go to the gym to look healthy and attractive?"
Some people don't have time or the money to buy a membership and hit the weights every week. I even have a very fit friend who works out frequently and still gets rejected all the time. Guess what? People can't work out to become attractive. If you are capable of doing this, teach me your secrets because I have a face that needs to pump some iron!


4. "…did you invest the money for a nice haircut?"
See above for Point A about being in college a.k.a. not having a fancy career and then Point B about not having money for unnecessary and optional things.


5. "…have you built healthy social skills?"
This is probably your only plausible (meaning "not shallow") argument, but still fails. This is a free dating website so obviously a lot of people probably need to work on their social skills. I'm a pretty social guy and I know that most women just don't like giving nice guys a shot before they try to get to know them. Some guys can't develop their social skills because women just don't seem to give them a chance. A simple conversation doesn't mean you're committed to a person. You're able to walk away afterwards if you still want to so try it out sometime.


6. "…have you found your own place to live?"
I live in an apartment and while it's a plus, it still doesn't help in dating situation. Besides, I think a guy living in his parents' house would mean two things: 1) he won't try to bring you back to his place right away (and then five seconds later to the bedroom) and 2) he won't pay as much on bills and rent so he'll have more money to spend on things like fancy haircuts and gym memberships! Note the exclamation point. That represents excitement in this instance, just in case the reader was "uneducated" and didn't understand the emotion that was going through that sentence. It was a very enthusiastic (and sarcastic) sentence.


7. "…is that place clean and nicely furnished?"
Also, the man keeps the place clean so his old parents, whom he's taking care of, don't have to worry about it? A nice, caring and responsible man who looks after his parents? How is this guy still single!?! Oh yeah, women need him to live away from his parents to be dating-worthy.


8. "…have you avoided stupid mistakes (such as being divorced at the age of 23)?"
Everyone has their mistakes and everyone is different. There are two sides of the coin when it comes to relationships, not just one. A guy could be divorced, but who's to say that he didn't fall in love with his soul mate and she dumped him after many years of happiness? People change and people grow so don't base your opinion on someone because of something they regret from the past and probably already wish they could take back. Everyone deserves a second chance. Now if he was divorced three times before the age of 23, then he might have an issue with relationships and you should probably be concerned (unless he's Ross from Friends, but then he'd be older and taken).


Long story short: If you believe in finding a guy who fits the bill with all or most of these questions, then yes, you are shallow and could very well end up missing your Prince Charming. The same goes for guys of course because it's not just women who fail to lower expectations. The fact is that this is a shallow world and when you have unbelievably high expectations like the person who wrote this list, you will find it harder to find love. To give you a clear picture here, let me share something with you (if I haven't lost you along our journey here).


1. I am very well educated and quite clever if you could not tell from this whole post. If you're that curious, I am also a junior at a university working for his Bachelor's in English.

2. I don't have a career, but I have been designated as an extremely hard-worker at both jobs I have had in the past 4 years and have been told that I will go places at both places of employment.

3. I am a fit guy and work out on a frequent basis.

4. I keep my hair very nice and as stylish as possible when I'm not going casual with a hat and guess who's my barber? My mother. Try telling her that she doesn't do a good job, I dare you.

5. I am a very social person, practically anyone I talk to likes me and I have this incredible gift to making people smile and laugh. By the way, it's not my face that makes people laugh.

6. As said before, I live in an apartment and it happens to be my second one since I moved out of my parents place. I do not plan on moving back in with them anytime soon, though they are very nice people I hear.

7. I keep my apartment as clean as I can possibly allow my laziness to allow. Plus, roommates and their messes can kind of kill any romance you bring back.

8. I have never been divorced, married, engaged, in a domestic partnership, or even in a relationship before. I've come close, but it was my decision to not go farther at the time.


Now I seem to do pretty well with your list in my personal opinion and yet I am still single. Why? Elementary dear Watson, my chemicals have not matched that of others, meaning I haven't had the right chemistry with a lady yet. Does that mean I should change who I am? Heck no, I just haven't found the right woman yet. I agree that everybody has "flaws" or bad habits that could use some work, but I believe that you will truly find someone who either makes you want to better yourself or better yet, actually accepts your flaws and loves you for them. This list isn't the key to finding a true relationship, accepting ourselves and showing others that we do is.
 soaringangel86
Joined: 12/2/2007
Msg: 287
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/2/2011 6:09:40 PM
Um Yes to all of those. And I'm not the newly coined stereotypical "Nice Guy". If I was, I would have been whipped in my last relationship and my girlfriend probably never would broken up with me for having a spine.

It's seriously not just the worthless poor, gross, uninteresting dudes that complain on here all the time. I have only EVER been able to get dates and form serious relationships in REAL LIFE. When someone actually has more luck in REAL LIFE than he does in an online dating atmosphere where intentions are known and there are way less head games involved, something is wrong.

I complain because something about this arena has, like all other great ideas, made it toxic. It's like communism. Great in theory, horrible in practice. I am an awesomly social person with no problem making friends, in great phyiscal shape, young, healthy, intelligent, high maintenence, friendly, courteous, outgoing, ambitious, (I can go on), and I still can't seem to get through to the women on online dating sites. One girl refused to give me her number or even meet up in an openly lit public location for coffee because she had previous "Bad experiences". Grow up! You'd think at 22 years old, one would be able to assert that we're all different individuals and that you are doing yourself a disservice by turning down opportunities to make you happy or enrich your life. BTW after several fun and friendly back and forths she suddenly just stopped talking to me. Nice.
So just remember that yes, many men, just like overweight women, should re-assess themselves before complaining all the time, but it's not like people who actually care and try have any better luck.
 cooldude
Joined: 4/26/2004
Msg: 288
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/3/2011 9:24:37 PM

…have you avoided stupid mistakes (such as being divorced at the age of 23)?


And who has not made mistakes at that age? My stepdaughter is already divorced at 25, but does not make her any less datable as she has a lot going for her. Its a bit unrealistic not to expect mistakes, even stupid ones, at that age.


…is that place clean and nicely furnished?
Define nicely furnished.

I usually pass people by if they have long lists on profiles. Had one woman's profile had 33 of them, yep 33.
 twelfth_dimension
Joined: 7/23/2011
Msg: 289
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/5/2011 8:45:18 PM
Wow ...

A woman comes on here
pokes some holes in the old "nice guy" float
gets attacked by some rabid dogs
foaming at the mouth
ready to pounce on her for
having standards
doesn't she know she should settle for a "nice guy"
men who seem to keep striking out with the hotties
even though they themselves are sporting a beer gut, two double chins
lost that job as a pizza delivery guy and now live in their parents' basement
but those stuck-up b*tches won't response to my message!?!?
oh wait here's an email from a woman ...
wait ... she has two kids and doesn't look like a supermodel?
How Dare She Think ...
*delete*
you know, the "nice guys"
who wouldn't look twice at a woman
in his own league.
 RockyDakota
Joined: 5/16/2011
Msg: 290
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/5/2011 8:49:38 PM

Yes, you might be nice, but…
…are you educated?
…do you have a career instead of a job?
…do you go to the gym to look healthy and attractive?
…did you invest the money for a nice haircut?[quote/]

I know this is fairly old, and what not...But what do those things have to do with being a nice guy?
 TheWonderingGuy
Joined: 4/30/2011
Msg: 291
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/5/2011 9:25:36 PM
"having standards"

Whenever I hear that I think "next." It says a lot about what that person thinks of themselves in relation to the opposite sex...
 Orgulloso
Joined: 8/28/2010
Msg: 292
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/6/2011 11:28:23 AM
@Twelfth Dimension

IMHO the OP is both entitled to her opinion and should be as picky as she wishes - on the other hand her checklist has absolutely nothing to do with "nice guys".

Having standards? Is that like I'm not settling? Dating within our league, what exactly is our league? C'mon.

I have a career / job with a Global Company (Fortune 100).
I have my own home and keep it neat and clean.
I own my car outright and it's clean, runs well and is a late model.
I get my hair cut every four weeks.
I work our mostly 4 times a week.
I don't smoke, use drugs and rarely drink alcohol.
I am comfortable in my skin and a generally happy person.
I am well read, articulate, funny, respectful, polite and very sociable.

I am NOT Brad Pitt / George Clooney.
I am NOT pulling in a 6 figure salary.
I am NOT Mr. Joe Cool nor do I pretend or wish to be.

I have been on 5 dates in the whole of 2011; 4 of which put me into the friend zone and we're friends as I write this. The 5th was a liar / serial dater and was looking for a sugar daddy.

Now if you'll preview my profile before flaming me out; am I a slob? Do I look reasonably fit? Am I butt ugly? Maybe if you care to reply you'll enlighten me on which league I belong to. Please, because obviously being "NICE" and meeting the OP's checklist isn't helping me much.
 RockyDakota
Joined: 5/16/2011
Msg: 293
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/6/2011 12:38:53 PM
So...maybe the ladies need to find a different term. Because what is said and what is meant are two very different things.
 Kevjohns
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 294
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/6/2011 12:50:27 PM
A woman comes on here
pokes some holes in the old "nice guy" float
gets attacked by some rabid dogs
foaming at the mouth
ready to pounce on her for
having standards


There is a woman from a college class I took who I will never forget. There are two reasons for this. (1) She was as ugly as sin, I mean a zero on a scale of 1-10. I felt bad for her for this, I mean she was a freak of nature and probably not much she could do about it without significant amounts of surgery. But I most remember her because (2) she was the most miserable personality alive, as mean as she was ugly.

You would think that a woman that ugly would have worked on her personality, but nope, she was angry at the world for what nature gave her. She despised most good looking guys for no other reason than they were good looking. I guess she thought they must all be vain **stards, much like guys assume good looking women are vain ****es. Hey, as I mentioned earlier, a good looking woman has the right to have whatever high standards she deems appropriate for herself. More power to her . . but she was egging the guys on here, she did come looking for trouble. Nobody really needed her advice as to how to attract the opposite sex. The responses to her post are all very appropriate. No foaming dogs here, just a woman who set out some bait because she could. She really does not need other women coming to her defense. She is likely enjoying all of the attention here. I would say this, were I still the young guy I once was, it is unlikely I would have had any interest in OP whatsoever. There was a time I could be very picky and I would have steered clear of anybody who would mock people the way OP did in her thread. I just was interested in genuinely "nice" women, not women who pretended to be nice.
 Sisyphus76
Joined: 1/1/2011
Msg: 295
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/6/2011 1:46:41 PM
*cracks fingers* This is going to be fun...


they are not willing to put in the hard work that it takes to become a successful dating candidate.


What the hell are you talking about? What hard work? Being a viable dating candidate is completely chemical. Males secrete a hormone that interacts with sweat and skin bacteria. When the hormone is able to kill the bacteria that the male has genetic immunity to a smell is released. Females are only attracted to males with differing immunity to their own. Thus, giving any potential offspring a chance at more immunity.

That's it, your sophisticated palette of choosing men is completely chemical and answers only to evolution herself.


...are you educated?

...can you be more vague? What are your perimeters for education? Are you foolishly correlating the lack of education with the lack of intelligence? I didn't finish my computer science degree, do you think you can stand toe to toe with me in a debate?

…do you have a career instead of a job?

This is cliche and befits no real response.

…do you go to the gym to look healthy and attractive?

Does everyone have the time and resources for a gym membership? Not only that, but if a person doesn't enjoy going to the gym, they simply aren't going to do it. Personally, I'm more attracted to a woman's mind and if she is forgoing 'hittin' tha gym, brah' to learn something, then I find that very attractive. Your shallow perception is not helping anyone and making you look like a clown.

…did you invest the money for a nice haircut?

lol, just... lol

…have you built healthy social skills?

Ok, so you win the subjectivity award. What are healthy social skills? The small little box of people you surround yourself with who value degrees over intelligence? Or, who value careers over worth? Or, who judge others by their car? I know plenty of closed minded people like you.

…have you found your own place to live?

Ok, so you don't give anyone the time of day without a degree, but you stoop to ask if they have their own home? This is confusing to me.

…is that place clean and nicely furnished?

As a matter of fact, my home (which I own) is very well accommodated and filled with food, drinks, wine (lots of wine). There is a Jet Ski parked in my garage next to my Audi A6 project care, but get this: I've gotten this far because of my intelligence and have no degree... at all! OMGRITE? Too bad though, I sit and laugh at your type all day.

…have you avoided stupid mistakes (such as being divorced at the age of 23)?

How does someone 'avoid' their wife leaving them? Other than being a diligent, dutiful, and loving husband, you can't force someone to stay. This statement cements my opinion of you very well.

You are what we call here, frat. (It's not a compliment)


I might be picky, but in order to get a reply from me you need to invest many years in your mind, body, soul, and career. Being a nice guy is not enough. I know Americans like instant gratification. But dating success is based on years of working on yourself and not on ten minutes tweaking of your POF profile.


You are not picky, you are unhealthy. But, good luck in your search. I wish I knew you personally so I could get a good laugh only a regular basis.
 Detectorman1976
Joined: 4/11/2011
Msg: 296
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/6/2011 7:25:35 PM
WHO CARES ABOUT HER STANDARDS...READ HER PROFILE, ITS NOTHING LIKE THE POST SHE MADE. GEESH PEOPLE. SHE WILL EITHER BE SINGLE FOR A LONG TIME AND HAVE A LONG TERM RELATIONSHIP WITH HER VIBRATOR OR MEET HER DREAM GUY WITH STANDARDS MATCHING HERS. ITS CALLED A POWER COUPLE..LOL..I DON'T DEFEND HER BUT DONT HATE HER FOR IT EITHER
 Simon4567
Joined: 10/9/2010
Msg: 297
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/6/2011 11:21:48 PM

I might be picky, but in order to get a reply from me you need to invest many years in your mind, body, soul, and career. Being a nice guy is not enough. I know Americans like instant gratification. But dating success is based on years of working on yourself and not on ten minutes tweaking of your POF profile.


Thanks, I will do that before I massage you.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 298
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/7/2011 6:02:14 PM
Jen 29- In one post you manage to come off as stuck on yourself, shallow and frankly kind of a 'itch.
In order to get a reply from you, they need to invest many years in mind, body, soul and career?!
Being nice isn't enough?!
Well, gosh, I'm sure every guy who reads this will rush to the gym, get a hair cut, get all new furniture and wait with baited breath with fondest hope that they are good enough for you.
Especially since you have such a pure soul.
 TheWonderingGuy
Joined: 4/30/2011
Msg: 299
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/8/2011 12:45:49 AM
I read a profile on here the other day that said things like "I've been single for 4.5 years...by CHOICE" and "I've been told that I'm PICKY" and I thought of this thread...
 Foreverandaday2
Joined: 4/25/2011
Msg: 300
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 9/10/2011 11:14:56 PM
I think I understand your post. I have not read any post other than you post. Do you have y0ur right arm? I have mine. do you have two eyes? I have both of mine. Would you you type this post tomorrow if you and I went to the hospital and took this little girl a doll she can hold only in one hand and can not see?

No. so what is the point? Love of another has nothing to do with sit ups. You will learn that when you do.

In the mean time take a step back an realize, you are a soul who wants a guy. Be careful what you attract with words.



what do you do for a leaving. I have two kids at IU, both straight A students. I will live in my van to keep them there...tee hee
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