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 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 35
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History
US Debt CrisisPage 2 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Igor...At least in WW II the US remained focused on what needed to be done, who the enemies were and the entire nation sacrificed and chipped in. After PNAC's "New Pearl Harbor" of 9/11, we did the opposite, cutting taxes, losing our focus and going broke attacking the wrong nations. We didn't attack Brazil for Pearl Harbor afterall. If you look at the combined figures of the cost of tax cuts/corporate welfare and the oil wars, it's pretty easy to see why we are in trouble.

Our current crisis has been manufactured by the Cons to attack social and environmental programs. Despite the $22 Trillion surplus in the Social Security trust fund, it is on the chopping block. A number of riders are included in the budget to set back decades of environmental protections. The corporate scum that currently own and run this nation are all about greed, stomping on citizens and rights to get what they want and incapable of honesty. Oh yeah...And they love to play the victim card in this debate. Poor little rich kids...
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 36
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/30/2011 7:58:16 AM
Puppy - It is said that California leads the nation in budget problems, and what happens here will soon occur on a national level.
I invite you to bring your family, your business, and come live here. You will love it! We pay prison dentists up to 600K/year, we have the finest environmental protection anywhere, a non-functional public education system, and welfare recipients 3x what our population would suggest.
How are you language skills, by the way? When you go to renew your driver's license you will see that our instruction pamphlets are conveniently printed in seven languages.
And be sure to obtain good car insurance, because there are many who don't have coverage at all, and should you collide with one of them you will go to jail, not them. After all, it's too much work for the authorities to waste their time hassling good people with no papers. You can afford insurance, they can't, so pay up and be happy.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 37
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History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/30/2011 8:35:39 AM
I don't think I'd go quite as far as to say that the neo cons purposely created this mess, but I AM certain that they and their allies are putting all of their energy into USING it as an excuse to kill everything they ever hated, just as they chose to USE 9/11 as an excuse to attack every nation that they ever hated. It is this intent on side issues and distractions, and the failure of the Democrats to show any substance in opposing them , which causes me to shake in my boots.
We need balance and insight from our leaders. Right now, all we're getting is petty vindictiveness, political opportunism, and self-blinding fanaticism. I only hope enough of the American electorate starts to see through their games enough to boot out the problem maintainers that they put into office in the last election, next year.
 vnufall
Joined: 3/6/2011
Msg: 38
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/30/2011 9:25:46 AM
in the middle of all this i don't think the congressmen are going to loose their salaries....thats for sure. it will be raised. all the arguing is just political posturing after the fallout.
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 39
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/30/2011 9:44:25 AM
Congresspeople don't worry about their salaries.
The big payoffs come under the table, through the back door, or in their next position, as a well-paid lobbyist (right-side), or high-ranking board member of a non-profit(left-side).
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 41
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History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/30/2011 10:33:31 AM
Peter Coy got busted using this chart, acknowledged that indeed there was a $22 trillion surplus, stuttered a bit and then admitted that he needed to go back and look at that.
At the 28-32 minute mark...
http://www.c-span.org/Events/Washington-Journal-for-Friday-July-29/10737423162-1/

Synopsis and transcript here.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/29/1000366/-$22-trillion-Social-Security-surplus-revealed-on-C-SPAN?via=siderecent

No reason to target the funds we have paid into other than partisan mean-ness.
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 42
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/30/2011 11:25:00 AM
22 tril surplus? Then why all this fuss about paying debts. Write them a check and let's get on with our lives.
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 46
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/30/2011 1:55:54 PM
Paul, please be accurate in this forum. It's 57 states, NOT 48, okay?
Geez, some people,,,,,,
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 48
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/31/2011 10:32:51 AM
Oh, my! The "stinking" rich?
Would that group include the greatest robber baron of our times, Bill Gates? He walked away with what, 55 billion? Or is that OK because he traipses around building windmills in Africa?
In case you didn't realize it, we all rip off someone every day. Don't we? We buy something for $10, then sell it for $20. My labor costs me nothing, yet I demand a paycheck every week from my employer. They then use my labor to increase the value of THEIR product, and so forth.
Is that OK with you? If you feel this is a really bad way to live, perhaps you would be happier in North Korea, where there aren't any stinking rich people to dominate your thoughts.
Just a suggestion, , , ,
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 50
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/31/2011 10:51:08 AM
My vision isn't the greatest.
Perhaps you could favor me my sketching out your thoughts into complete sentences.
thanks, , ,
 sabaidi
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 52
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/31/2011 12:36:43 PM
this is a manufactured crisis

the circumstances that created mass affluence in america no longer exist

because our economic system operates on the confidence of the consumer
and investor the truth about the systems condition must be hidden behind
constant crisis and diversion . i could go on but the bottom line is this

the age of mass affluence was created by a widespead economic collapse
a global war and the consequences of those events . events no one wants
repeated
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 53
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History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/31/2011 6:51:03 PM
http://www.borowitzreport.com/

Debt Ceiling is Raised Before Tea Party Understands What It Is

GOP Begins Hard Work of Creating Next Crisis



WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report) – In an historic eleventh-hour bipartisan accord, the United States’ debt ceiling was raised Sunday night before the Tea Party understood what it was.

In an effort to gain as many Tea Party votes as possible, the debt ceiling bill was drafted entirely in one-syllable words, congressional aides said.

But even as the final agreement was being put to bed, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) urged his Republican colleagues not to rest on their laurels: “Now, let us begin the hard work of creating the next crisis.”

According to those close to the negotiations, the GOP in Congress were under pressure to get a deal done before the observance of the official Republican holiday, Shark Week.

Additionally, the Chinese government had warned that if the U.S. defaulted on its Treasuries, China was prepared to take full ownership of Washington and rename it Wang Chung.

In the end, though, Sen. McConnell said the Republicans stood to benefit the most from striking a deal that warded off financial calamity: “We deserve full credit for finding the antidote, even though we were the ones who administered the poison
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 54
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/31/2011 7:10:07 PM
What's really weird to me is that the Republicans control just one House and the President is a Democrat, yet they get to set the agenda completely. Not just that, but the most extreme members of the GOP get to set the agenda.

Every sane person in the US knows that the uncertainty caused terrible problems that will have long term consequences, but those who felt that it would be no big deal to not raise the ceiling were the ones calling the shots. There have always been nutbars in Congress, but they've never got to run the show before.
 robin-hood
Joined: 12/2/2008
Msg: 55
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History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/31/2011 9:30:37 PM
As per Naked_lunch


The great American Dream .... total b.s. to enslave the average Joe .
enjoy your slavery to the Bank and insurance and petro chemical corporations ... oh and don't forget hydro ...
maybe you should go suck some pollution that isn't cleaned up by Dow Corning ... 20 years after Bopal .... or the Love Canal ... or the Gulf Coast or Ohio or the Steel mills garbage ... we're still working on getting something back from the tobacco corporations ... and their stinking rich owners.


I know many that would love to have those steel mill paychecks back. If you don't borrow money from the banks you have no debt, so give up those credit cards. In fact my father while I was living at home never put a dime in the bank.

Insurance is now manadatory, but don't drive a car. My father did without one till I was 10 ( I was the oldest).

Then again maybe all those companies should just close the doors for awhile. Shut down all the power plants and refineries for say 2 to 3 years and permit these enslaved people to live in peace growing their own gardens and making candles, washing clothes by hand and walking or taking bikes to work. All I forgot what jobs, so scratch those trips to work.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 56
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 7/31/2011 11:43:19 PM

Shut down all the power plants and refineries for say 2 to 3 years and permit these enslaved people to live in peace growing their own gardens and making candles, washing clothes by hand and walking or taking bikes to work. All I forgot what jobs, so scratch those trips to work.


Ahhh...paradise!
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 58
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History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/1/2011 10:52:31 AM
Well.... President " pushover " came through again.

Lincoln was the " Great Emancipator ".
Regan was the " Great Communicator ".
Obama is becoming the " Great Compromiser ".

Will we ever get a Democrat with guts in the White House again ?
Can you imagine LBJ with this ? LBJ would've had these Republicans crawling on their knees.
Truman wouldn't have done this, nor Roosevelt.
Not even Teddy Roosevelt !

There was no deal necessary here ! Raising the Debt Limit is a formality. The Democrats have no need of a deal.
It was the Republicans who were using the Debt Limit to hold a gun to the American people's head and saying, " Give us what we want or we'll destroy the economy ".
All Obama had to do was say, " No... we will not destroy 80 years of progress for the people ".
But NO.... he couldn't do it. He compromised where no compromise was necessary.
Like Clinton before him, he's a Democrat in public and a Republican behind closed doors.

And the Republicans wont even have the courtesy to thank him.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 60
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/1/2011 11:30:34 AM

When is the debt ceiling going to be too high?

Actually, you would probably answer ..... never.

Here's the Fox News/Tea Party answer: it is far too high when a Democratic president is in office and not a pressing issue when a Republican president is in office.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 61
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History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/1/2011 11:31:41 AM
Create Jobs ?
Like Hell !

The Republicans love throwing jobs in our faces.
Saying, " If you don't lower our taxes, we wont give you a job ".
Lets all bend down and kiss the rich's ass and maybe he'll give us a job.

All we've done is lower taxes for them..... has it created any jobs ?
Do we all have jobs now ?

Chances are, if you've got a job, the owner of the company pays a lower tax rate than you do. Taxes have nothing to do with jobs.
Oh, I guess McDonalds wont hire anyone to mop the floor because of the taxes ?
If a company needs to hire someone they hire them, regardless of what the taxes are.
Demand is what jobs are all about.

We have a privileged aristocracy in this country and as far as they're concerned working people are nothing but low life, ignorant, slaves.
 normaldude
Joined: 3/8/2006
Msg: 62
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History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/1/2011 11:36:22 AM
if the US doesnt find a way to reverse the destructive spiral of living off credit then you will become a hollowed out shell owned by China. The ability of special interests to hijack elected officials pretty much dooms the country. Your leaders of the past all warned of this and now its coming true. Unless global companys are forced to keep a minimum percentage of payroll in north america they will bleed out the economy. There will only be two classes.... the ultra rich and the poor. In the past few years it was the blue collar workers who got screwed but now due to the internet and global communications they can send ANY job overseas for peanuts. So your engineers and lawyers and IT guys and scientists will all see the same effect. The rich maximize profit and use buckets of cash to modify tax laws to increase the buckets of cash and keep charging up the burned out national visa card while they hide billions of excess profit from uncle sam. The debt has to be turned down and rich people MUST pay a fair share of the ludicrous incomes they have generated by playing this game. The only incomes left will be walmart and fastfood then the rest will be on welfare....... why cant anyone see this?
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 64
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/1/2011 11:42:55 AM

"It had allot to do with it, but remember who increased spending the most and to not admit that Obama took over a train wreck cause by Bush is either disingenuous or show a complete lack of understanding."

"Now redo those numbers by which party had control of Congress. And if I'm reading your numbers right if we look at this as increase debt/GDP per year we get:

Ronald Reagan 1981–1985 +2.8%
Ronald Reagan 1985–1989 +2.3%
George H. W. Bush 1989–1993 +3.3%
Bill Clinton 1993–1997: -0.2%
Bill Clinton 1997–2001: -2.3%
George W. Bush 2001–2005: +1.8%
George W. Bush 2005–2009: +5.2%
Barack Obama 2009 - :+9.0%


This is illustrating the unsustainability of the fractional reserve central banking model. It can easily be understood by first understanding the the very basic principles of the exponential function .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=relmfu

There is no money but that fact is far to hard for people to understand.
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 65
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/1/2011 12:15:00 PM
I'm a worker, and I'd like to see the 20 million illegals go back home. This is a major factor of workers getting squeezed. And please don't give me the argument that we need cheap lettuce pickers, because they get subsidized on the back end, so what's the difference?
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 67
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/1/2011 1:15:41 PM
I'm a worker, and I'd like to see the 20 million illegals go back home. This is a major factor of workers getting squeezed...

Then who is going to take all those jobs that no one wanted for little to no pay?





...And please don't give me the argument that we need cheap lettuce pickers, because they get subsidized on the back end, so what's the difference?...

So leave out all the common sense regarding how the removal of all illegal aliens would hurt the US economy and do way more harm that good?

For any economy to function there no need poor people willing o do work for little nothing, if you remove them, you are going to have a big problem.

Either the cost of living gos up dramatically or the audibility of goods and services drops off or combination of the two.






we spend more than we take in, and borrow to pay for the rest, and keep stacking new debt on top of the old debt. IF we were to stop overspending, and taking the excess over and above how much we should spend and apply it to paying off the debt, the debt would be paid off just because of the exponential function of the size of the economy expanding. However, you are right when you say that "there is no money".

The debt would be paid off if the US had not go into Iraq.

So if you spend more than you take in, then why is the solution only to spend less?

Why not take in more as well?
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 69
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/1/2011 3:24:22 PM

Blaming the US debt problem on the "fractional reserve banking model" is beyond silly, and s]ows not only a misunderstanding of the problem, but a single mindedness brought about by an inability to think for oneself, hence a religious adherance to something that sounds good.;


Paul K i have read several of your post and you like your opinion to be heard i know :) But to suggest my statement is to be linked to some dogmatic ideology is horse shite. The currency was moved from value into fiat debt, to finance the bankruptcy. Through the government ownership of the capitalized name, we became biological collateral to finance the government debt/bankruptcy. Homeland security is the corporate head of the the ole USA. It was not a well set up corporation and will fail soon.



The problem is VERY simple.......



No you are very simple and a loud mouth too it seems.



we spend more than we take in, and borrow to pay for the rest, and keep stacking new debt on top of the old debt. IF we were to stop overspending, and taking the excess over and above how much we should spend and apply it to paying off the debt, the debt would be paid off just because of the exponential function of the size of the economy expanding. However, you are right when you say that "there is no money".



There is in both the USA and Canada within the constitution the right for the government to issue the currency at no interest. Instead we pay compound interest to commercial banks to create our money through loans. It is out signature that create the money out of thin air and then we pay back principle and interest neither of which the banks had to begin with. Fractional reserve banking is one of the biggest slight of hand counterfeiter scams in the history of mankind.

The Secret of Oz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8qLkpA_PSs

Oh Canada... Our Bought & Sold Land!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH7TbObZBmU
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 71
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/1/2011 3:47:29 PM
Nothing to say lol!!!!!! I said plenty but you could not process it lol

OK lets look at my last post sunshine.


Paul K i have read several of your post and you like your opinion to be heard i know :) But to suggest my statement is to be linked to some dogmatic ideology is horse shite. The currency was moved from value into fiat debt, to finance the bankruptcy. Through the government ownership of the capitalized name, we became biological collateral to finance the government debt/bankruptcy. Homeland security is the corporate head of the the ole USA. It was not a well set up corporation and will fail soon.


"The problem is VERY simple......."



No you are very simple and a loud mouth too it seems.



"we spend more than we take in, and borrow to pay for the rest, and keep stacking new debt on top of the old debt. IF we were to stop overspending, and taking the excess over and above how much we should spend and apply it to paying off the debt, the debt would be paid off just because of the exponential function of the size of the economy expanding. However, you are right when you say that "there is no money".



There is in both the USA and Canada within the constitution the right for the government to issue the currency at no interest. Instead we pay compound interest to commercial banks to create our money through loans. It is out signature that create the money out of thin air and then we pay back principle and interest neither of which the banks had to begin with. Fractional reserve banking is one of the biggest slight of hand counterfeiter scams in the history of mankind.

The Secret of Oz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8qLkpA_PSs

Oh Canada... Our Bought & Sold Land!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH7TbObZBmU



A fair bit was said there , as for your rebuttal there was Zero content except some lame referance to name calling when in fact it was you who tried to suggest i was no unlike some kind of religious fanatic, lol you are the limit PK!!!!!!

PK slobbered...


One thing I've always noticed is that when someone has nothing to say, the always go negative and call names........................

You wrote:
"No you are very simple and a loud mouth too it seems."

Thanks for making my point.

Paul K
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 72
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/1/2011 3:49:15 PM
pk also slobbered....


Blaming the US debt problem on the "fractional reserve banking model" is beyond silly, and s]ows not only a misunderstanding of the problem, but a single mindedness brought about by an inability to think for oneself, hence a religious adherance to something that sounds good.;
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