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 gblore
Joined: 5/26/2009
Msg: 108
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History
US Debt CrisisPage 4 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
I never really followed politics but am starting to educate myself because I am concerned about what state this country will be in when my kids are adults and when their kids are adults. Attending political rallies to learn how what is going on and may go on will affect us is very eye opening.

One thing that has been spoken about alot is for those of like mind who want to do something to change the course this country is headed in is to be active in the primaries. For years we have been given the choice of choosing the lesser of two evils. The primary is where we need to go make sure that a candidate that we approve of is appointed to run the race.

Also, I think that the country as a whole in education is neglecting to really teach in depth, how the government works, where the elected officials job descriptions come from (the constitution) and to teach all of the constitution. If we were more educated we would know that some of what has been going on is against the constitution and that our current president is acting against it. This knowledge would also lead to what recourse we have as a people to change that.

OUR government is just that OUR government, not the presidents. We are becoming slaves to the government but yet very few people recognize this.

I would encourage everyone to learn everything about the constitution and read about our founding fathers and what their intent was f0r this country. It isn't what it is today!!
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 111
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/3/2011 4:32:50 PM
Yeah, but those were America haters right? Guess you've joined the "Blame America First" crowd. How on earth anyone could consider the present, very conservative President a Marxist is beyond me. The health care plan he tried to get through was virtually identical to the one Newt Gingrich proposed in the 90's - what went through was considerably weaker. Unless you're going to call the 1990's era Republican party Marxist as well, you really need to ratchet down the rhetoric.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 113
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/3/2011 5:17:53 PM
I'm judging Obama by what he says and does. Not by what other people have said. He's very conservative.

I'm not going to look up the writers you mention, because it's irrelevant. Even if he was a leftie once, that doesn't mean anything. Rubert Murdoch's nickname at Oxford was "Rupert the Red" because he was an avowed Marxist. I'm pretty sure he qualifies as conservative by even your skewed standards.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 114
view profile
History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/3/2011 5:25:38 PM
As the bar moves faster and further to the far Reich, Eisenhower, Goldwater, Nixon and Reagan would be considered leftist today. Clinton was a moderate republican by those ancient standards and Obama is following in those compromising shoes.

Looking at the accrued debt and spending charts per President over the decades, spending and debt went through the roof under Republicans Presidents. Now suddenly it's all Obama's fault to act just a tiny bit like them with the teabag terrorists in charge of the republican devolution.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 115
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/3/2011 5:46:55 PM
A thief knows no political allegiance.

It amazes me how many of you guys are caught up in the phoney left/right paradigm. How many has it dawned on that this phoney democracy crap is just a dog & pony show by a gang of crooks & thieves to present an illusion of freedom of choice while they rob your country of the wealth of its production?

If turnabout is fair play, then maybe it's time to grab your government by the balls before they squeeze yours out of existence.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 121
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/3/2011 10:11:58 PM
"Somalia is nothing than a lawless region, controlled by those with the most guns."

You've got it backwards. When a region is controlled by the people with the most guns that's called a state. In a state all laws are enforced through force of arms. With violence or threats of violence. The state is funded through taxes which are obtained through either extortion or thievery. Taxation is slavery because for every penny in taxes taken from us we did a penny's worth of work for free. If individuals did what government agents do they'd be considered criminals.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 123
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/3/2011 10:33:55 PM
"I see the same ole anti Keynsian economics from someone who knows nothing about economic history or its working"

Keynesian economics was proved wrong when the policies of Hoover and FDR extended the Great Depression. It was proved wrong against in the 70's when we had stagflation (impossible according to Keynesian economics). It was proved wrong again when the policies were tried during Japan's Lost Decade. It was proved wrong against when Obama applied Keynesian economics after the housing bubble burst and unemployment increased when his Keynesian advisers proclaimed it would bring unemployment down to 8%. Incidentally the 9.2% unemployment rate is only new unemployment benefit claimants. True unemployment is closer to 20%. Keynesian economics doesn't even pass the smell test. Going into debt during the bad times means sucking money out of the economy plus interest in good times to pay off the debts. For every job created in bad times a job plus interest is destroyed in good times. How come the Keynesians didn't see the tech bubble or housing bubble bursts coming but the Austrian economists did?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 127
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/4/2011 9:14:01 AM
"I'll look into Austrian ... the new catch phrase ... and see what they have ... probably too much reliance on math ..."

Actually they don't use enough math, IMO. The Austrian school isn't the be-all end-all of economics, but I think they are correct as far as they go.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 128
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/4/2011 9:18:19 AM
"Keynesian economics got us out of the Great Depression. Opus Coronat Finis. Whether it's appropriate for another situation is dependent on the problem presented. "

It did nothing to get us out for 15 years. Then WWII ended, government spending plummeted, and a devastated Europe left the US with practically no competition. We saw a huge expansion of the economy until Europe built itself up again and LBJ introduced the Great Society. It's been down hill almost the entire time since.
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 130
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/4/2011 10:46:31 AM

A thief knows no political allegiance.

It amazes me how many of you guys are caught up in the phoney left/right paradigm. How many has it dawned on that this phoney democracy crap is just a dog & pony show by a gang of crooks & thieves to present an illusion of freedom of choice while they rob your country of the wealth of its production?

If turnabout is fair play, then maybe it's time to grab your government by the balls before they squeeze yours out of existence.


Yup

The Matrix ~ Statism is Dead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x-B-Ccpm6o
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 131
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/4/2011 10:49:42 AM

"Keynesian economics got us out of the Great Depression. Opus Coronat Finis. Whether it's appropriate for another situation is dependent on the problem presented. "

It did nothing to get us out for 15 years. Then WWII ended, government spending plummeted, and a devastated Europe left the US with practically no competition. We saw a huge expansion of the economy until Europe built itself up again and LBJ introduced the Great Society. It's been down hill almost the entire time since.


"Fear the Boom and Bust" a Hayek vs. Keynes Rap Anthem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 134
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/4/2011 11:53:16 AM
Yawn.....PaulK you should change you user name to I-me-not-you or Imenotyou.
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 135
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/4/2011 11:57:56 AM
"Where I live ... the supermarkets are full of fresh like fruit and vegetables all year round.... that is unnatural... someone must pay. It tends to be the poor illegals and poor of other nations that pay with poor lives."
How well off SHOULD illegals be? I know of no there nation on the planet that would even allow them in their our nation , not even the munificent Canada.
I recently drove up highway 5 which cuts through hundreds of miles of giant farms. There were lots of laborers out there picking, but I didn't see a bunch of old yellow busses to transport them to the fields. What I saw were lots of late model vehicles, nice jacked-up pickups and suv's, and other cars, they looked a lot better than what is in my driveway right now.
I also wonder about those child laborers who sew Nike shoes for peanuts, so Nike can make millions. Would those people be better off if Nike wasn't there? How would they survive? If you're starving, isn't a crap job better than no job.
When you think of those poor farm workers, please don't consider how many families receive $$ aid because they earn under a certain level. I have heard a figure of 75% of Mexican families, but I don't see references of over 50%, so it's a number hard to verify, between legal and illegal and all. Most of the illegals here are the least educated, least skilled, so whatever jobs they can get will be at the bottom of the wage scale, thus qualifying them for public assistance.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 136
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/4/2011 6:48:28 PM
"Keynesian economics cannot be blamed for the length of the Great Depression and is credited with keeping it from being even worse.... "

I could just as easily claim that it made it worse. We can compare it to the Depression of 1920 where the stock market crashed worse than the beginning of the Great Depression. The reaction from the government was to cut taxes and slash spending. The depression was over in 15 months instead of 15 years.
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 139
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/4/2011 10:21:54 PM
It is the evils of fractional reserve central banking. There is not a country on the planet that is not under the control of this master/slave relationship .
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 143
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History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/8/2011 6:37:49 AM
Senate Minority leader, Mitch McConnell….
"I think some of our members may have thought the default issue was a hostage you might take a chance at shooting. Most of us didn't think that. What we did learn is this — it's a hostage that's worth ransoming. And it focuses the Congress on something that must be done."
 4rumninja
Joined: 11/30/2009
Msg: 144
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/8/2011 7:12:10 AM
I think the problem most people have is that the Republicans didn't simply roll over and do what king Obama wanted...Our rating went down any ways, so once again Obama and his experts were wrong about what would happen if the debt ceiling wasn't raised...Obama and his crew will never address the real issues regarding our economy, they have Robin Hood mentality...

Obama supporters can never argue the merits of what Obama has done they can only blame everyone else for Obamas failures and lack of accuracy...
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 146
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/8/2011 7:32:06 AM
I think the problem most people have is that the Republicans didn't simply roll over and do what king Obama wanted...

True, the Republican party in 2009, filibustered a stunning 80% of major legislation.

Congratulations on not getting anything done but taking your ball and going home GOP.




Obama and his crew will never address the real issues regarding our economy, they have Robin Hood mentality...

Yeah and that Robin Hood was sure a bad guy.

Although whatever you want to call the bad economy, it's here to stay for a long time due almost entirely to the "all spending is evil, we must protect the rich" mantra of the far right .




Obama supporters can never argue the merits of what Obama has done they can only blame everyone else for Obamas failures and lack of accuracy...

Pot Meet Kettle.

Unless you outline what exactly Obama has done to cause this mess.
 4rumninja
Joined: 11/30/2009
Msg: 148
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/8/2011 10:44:44 AM

The rating came as a result of obvious signs that all Congress seems to be doing is bickering solely in the interest of political party futures, not solving the debt problem. Political posturing won't solve anything.
I agree nothing was solved..my point is Obama and his crew assured everyone that if a debt deal and debt limit increase were passed our credit rating wouldn't go down..they did a deal even though it wasn't in the best interest of the Republicans , our credit rating was down graded anyways..

Remember Obama saying that we had to raise the limit to avoid a downgrading of our credit rating? Remember,we have to pass something or else? Well... He got what he wanted and guess what he was Wrong as Usual...


Markets respond to sound decision-making
Exactly, Obamas decision making in regards to the Economy isn't sound, the Market responds...
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 149
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History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/8/2011 11:27:13 AM
I agree nothing was solved..my point is Obama and his crew assured everyone that if a debt deal and debt limit increase were passed our credit rating wouldn't go down..they did a deal even though it wasn't in the best interest of the Republicans , our credit rating was down graded anyways..


Gee, you dont think it had anything to do with the incredible instability that was shown by American politicians that had anything to do with the downgrading??? Essentially the GOP led a 3 ring circus that only solidified in many people's mind exactly how ridiculous the American political situation has become. If you want to act like a clown, sound like a clown, do all the things a clown will do, dont get upset when you get treated like a clown.

What the GOP managed to do was reinforce the idea that the US is incredibly far away from being governed properly for the good of the country, and showed that its leaders seem incapable of making the right decisions regardless of party lines and ideology. They did however manage to confirm the perception that the US is being governed for the good of the politicians involved and the 2% of the very wealthy. The rest of you can go fuck yourselves, thats pretty much what these people were saying to you. I guess its hard to let go and realize that the odds of you being one of the 2% are really not in your favor, and that fighting for the rich to keep their money just in case you become one of them no longer is within your best interest. YOU WILL NOT BECOME ONE OF THE 2%, SO WHY ARE YOU TAKING THE HIT FOR THEM??????

The sad thing is that people like you cant really see that because you are so blinded by your "party lines" and would rather blame that accept the reality of your county's situation. The US is a credit risk, it has been for a while, it was however "too big to fail" but I guess someone got tired of pretending there wasnt an elephant in the room and actually pointed it out.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 150
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History
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/8/2011 12:09:24 PM
More of the my team is better than your team stuff going on here.


Remember,we have to pass something or else?


When haven't we heard that in the past 40 years and particularly from the previous administration? We have to invade Iraq or else the WMDs will kill us all! We have to bailout Goldmann Sachs now or else we'll all die!

Yes... definitely hold Obama for failing to deliver on "change we can believe in" but by the same token you'd think that those of us on the right would feel some sort of comfort in the fact that he's maintained the status quo in Washington that we seem to love so much.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 152
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/8/2011 9:08:44 PM

Exactly, Obamas decision making in regards to the Economy isn't sound, the Market responds...

The Standard and Poor report specifically named the Tea Party Republicans as the primary reason for the fiscal irresponsibility. It isn't Obama's decision making that is the problem.
 4rumninja
Joined: 11/30/2009
Msg: 153
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/9/2011 6:50:39 AM
"We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, Especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process. "

"Republicans and Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on
more comprehensive measures. It appears that for now, new revenues have
dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions
only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements,
the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key
to long-term fiscal sustainability.

In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements,the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.

"We have changed our assumption on this because the majority
of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise
revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act. Key
macroeconomic assumptions in the base case scenario include trend real GDP growth of 3% and consumer price inflation near 2% annually over the decade."

That's the reference to Republicans..nothing about the Tea Party specifically...I like how all the Obama zombies totally overlooked the part the Democrats played in this outcome....

Other factors that were considered in the S & P rating that are purposefully overlooked by the Obama sycophants that populate these forums..

The GDP lower both in nominal and Real terms..
Sub par rebound relative to previous post war recessions..
Government debt to GDP ratio not predicted to go down in the near future
As a result, our downside case scenario assumes relatively modest real trend GDP growth of 2.5% and inflation of near 1.5% annually going forward

Do you liberals ever actually read from the source or do you rely solely on Rachel Maddow and the Huffington post?
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 154
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/9/2011 7:09:44 AM

Do you liberals ever actually read from the source or do you rely solely on Rachel Maddow and the Huffington post?

Do you give credit to your sources, or do yours just prefer to plagiarize others?




Other factors that were considered in the S & P rating that are purposefully overlooked by the Obama sycophants that populate these forums..

Pot Meet Kettle.

Cantor To House GOP: Resist ‘Pressure To Compromise On Tax Increases’ In Wake Of Downgrade
Brian Beutler | August 8, 2011, 4:42PM

Will S&P's controversial decision to downgrade the country's bond rating -- and its explicit citation of GOP intransigence on tax revenue -- be enough to break the Republicans' broad opposition to tax increases in future deficit reduction legislation?

Not if House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) can help it.

In a Monday memo to the House GOP caucus, he candidly acknowledged that S&P faulted the party's unyielding stance on tax revenues for the downgrade. But he encourages members not to erase this bright line.

"Over the next several months, there will be tremendous pressure on Congress to prove that S&P's analysis of the inability of the political parties to bridge our differences is wrong," Cantor wrote. " In short, there will be pressure to compromise on tax increases. We will be told that there is no other way forward. I respectfully disagree.... I firmly believe we can find bipartisan agreement on savings from mandatory programs that can be agreed to without tax increases. I believe this is what we must demand from the Joint Committee as it begins its work."

In other words, House Republicans should unite against a plan that isn't dominated by Medicare cuts and contains no tax increases. There are 240 House Republicans, and during the debt limit fight, they followed Cantor's lead on this score.


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/cantor-to-house-gop-resist-pressure-to-compromise-on-tax-increases-in-wake-of-downgrade.php?ref=fpa
 4rumninja
Joined: 11/30/2009
Msg: 156
US Debt Crisis
Posted: 8/9/2011 8:27:25 AM
Actually I got those directly from the S & P website...you should go there and read their report in it's entirety....

Interesting to see how you all disregarded the part the Dems played by refusing to reform entitlements, or the weight that S& P put on the overall state of the Economy...probably because Obama is in charge so it's easier for you to employ the typical Liberal tactic of blaming everyone else for his lack of effectiveness...


Pot Meet Kettle.

Really, you are going to quote a Liberal Blog? ..then blast me for going directly to the Source....


you may not see .... but the world did
I guess I am not the only one who didn't see that as S&P cited numerous reasons for the downgrade.
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