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 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 76
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Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent DesignPage 4 of 54    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

is this evolution and mere coincidence that an organism in the ocean came on to land and from then on millions of diverse species exist today. And humans just got lucky.


Yes. You hit the nail on the head right there. And I thought you didn't understand ;)
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 77
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 7:08:30 AM

Imagine dogs getting lucky and we would be on leashes


Dogs already "got lucky." If there is a God, He is a God of dogs. He only invented people to serve dogs by feeding & caring for them and cleaning up their crap. (Hmmm...serving God...serving Dog...Maybe the guy who wrote the Bible was dyslexic?)

I guess the real question is whether we were divinely put here to serve dogs, or simply evolved to be lower than dogs on the tree of evolution.
 Pinayto
Joined: 2/5/2011
Msg: 78
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 8:28:25 AM
LOL. Honestly it is only here in America that dogs are treated better than humans. Specifically compared to poor people. The irony I see of dogs of millionaires spoiled rotten, actually most are not even millionaires, while seeing how poor people can't even eat 3 meals a day really REALLY annoys me.

And that's why I hate vegans. lol. Im off topic but I'm just frustrated how Americans are sooooo stupid about dogs.

I even LOL'd harder when evolution is really just built all in chance. Yeah, so if it's true why is earth the ONLY planet to benefit on that chance? The other 8 planets deserve a chance evolution too you know, soooo unfair.

In fact, all other solar system in our whole universe deserve that chance evolution and somehow earth is sooooooooooo special it is the only 1 that thrived in evolution. You know science piss me right off right there and then.
 Hoyo
Joined: 7/18/2008
Msg: 79
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 9:30:15 AM

What's the point of Macroevolution? To survive right? So all the fruits and vegtables for tens of thousands of years that are edible haven't been able to adapt to survive? Did the DNA just tell them to be the way there are for human consumption?


These sort of statements bother me. This is someone who denies evolution, and I assume from this statement has 1: never educated themselves on evolution, or 2: hasn't even put any thought into what they've said.

Being edible is how fruits and vegetables survived!!! How did you think seeds got distributed!!???
 Hoyo
Joined: 7/18/2008
Msg: 80
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 9:36:18 AM

I even LOL'd harder when evolution is really just built all in chance. Yeah, so if it's true why is earth the ONLY planet to benefit on that chance? The other 8 planets deserve a chance evolution too you know, soooo unfair.

In fact, all other solar system in our whole universe deserve that chance evolution and somehow earth is sooooooooooo special it is the only 1 that thrived in evolution. You know science piss me right off right there and then.


Of the hundreds of planets that we know of (it would be foolish to assume we've found all the planets out there), how do you KNOW none of the planets have life on them? I'm very curious how you got that information.
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 81
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Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 11:43:10 AM

Of the hundreds of planets that we know of (it would be foolish to assume we've found all the planets out there), how do you KNOW none of the planets have life on them? I'm very curious how you got that information.


Scientists still haven't ruled out that there may be life in the rest of our own solar system as well. In Particular they are looking at one of Jupiter's Moons. They believe there is liquid water under the ice, and they think there is strong chance life forms may inhabit it. Likely only microbial, but still life.
 PragmaticDoc
Joined: 8/4/2009
Msg: 82
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 12:23:33 PM
There are so many things that you have to deny exist by the "Blind Faith" of creationism. Carbon date testing, Dinosaurs, Millions and maybe billions of species of plants, animals, organisms, that are proven you can see their fossil record. and thats only the tip of the iceberg. What about the Clovis people that lived here in North America just 10,000 years ago. What all that is made up, evidence planted by who? Even in the last hundred years as humans we are taller, stronger, smarter, more able to fight off the bactera and such. So what God just comes down and gives us booster shots for sickness? and put HGH in our Wheaties?
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 83
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Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 12:27:48 PM
RE Msg 12 by Hoyo:

Threatened? How? There are BILLIONS of religious believers. At most, only 150 million Americans don't believe in evolution, and even then, most of them don't seem to be saying they are THREATENED by it, rather just don't believe it.
That's all well and good, but I'm simply talking from past experiences with people I've dealt with.
Based on past experiences, I would say that most religious believers have degrees, and 50% of those with degrees have PhDs. But I gather that is not the case. I can see from myself, and from others, that while experience is a great teacher, it's not always a reliable predictor of the general state of any group, and especially when it's a very large group, like in the millions.


You can, and that's what most religious believers in the WORLD, DO.
I know people who believe the world is 6000 years old, and that dinosaurs and humans coexisted. So that's a group that is blatantly denying science.
In a study in the late 90s, 1/3 of British teens reported that they believed that you could catch AIDS from a toilet seat. By the same logic, one could conclude that Britain, the home of the Rutherford Laboratory, Paul Dirac and Stephen Hawking, to name a few, is anti-science.


I cannot really verify or refute it, because you haven't listed ALL the things to which you refer
One example is Russian silver foxes. Over about 36 generations of selective breeding resulted in the foxes looking and behaving like dogs. Or the Italian wall lizards planted on an island near Croatia. They went from insect eaters to plant eaters, with a totally different skull structure. Even though that change is, by definition, evolution, a creationist has to deny those changes took place.
2 points:

1) Cross-breeding was thousands of years old in Darwin's time. If Darwin had even suggested that would be a proof of evolution, it would have been received as it would be today, for a scientist to suggest that Quantum Loop Gravity is true, just because things that roll off your bed land on the floor.

Granted, it might not be obvious to us, because we are no longer raised with animals. But then, how can we expect to really understand a subject that, for 99% of us, have only experienced in books and experiments, and have no knowledge of how it works in the lab that is real life?

2) I said ALL. Without ALL the examples, I can only draw a conclusion on a tiny subset of data. That would be rather like deciding that because Obama won, that means that the Democrats win every election, and as a result, the Democrats have won every election, from 1776 onwards.


Best you can do. Science has given us the tools to do a lot better than that.
Not really sure what you mean by that. That science should have discovered all the answers by now?
The knowledge is already there. It's a question of application.



I guess that's the other thing I find strange about the "debate". From what I usually witness, it's the naturalists who are humble (they claim to not know all the answers), and the creationists who seem to act as if they have all the answers. I've always found that ironic.
I find it ironic as well:

Humble people, who claim they know little, would only claim facts, not hypotheses, not even educated hypotheses. You claim that all they have is educated hypotheses. Ergo, according to you, humble people would NOT claim anything.

Equally, if you look at a creationist, and ask them HOW G-d did it, we would expect they would say "I don't know". Surely that is the response of someone who is openly admitting that they don't have all the answers.
Not sure where I said all that science has is educated hypotheses. I know I mentioned it educated hypotheses. A part of science is assuming you're 99% correct at best. Science always leaves room for error, and assumes they don't have 100% of the information. To me, that is a humble attitude.
99% of 6.5 billion is 65 million. That means that any scientist who believes this, would naturally conclude that AT LEAST 65 million people in the world would naturally, after having studied all the evidence, still come to the conclusion that the theory of evolution is wrong. So I would expect that such a person would be happy to concede that, even if he thought evolution was right, that it is perfectly reasonable for even millions to believe that evolution is wrong, and would not chide them for it whatsoever. THAT, to me, would be an indication of a "humble" evolutionist.



To be a creationist, you have to look at factual findings, hard evidence, and say, "Nope." That's why I try to avoid the arguments, it's like if I say grass is bright pink, even while looking at a field, how can you possibly persuade me?
GM and cross-breeding. You can grow pink grass in a field. So it's entirely possible. That's never been a problem.
You missed my point on this one. Bringing it back to those Italian wall lizards, even though we witness the change in skull structure over the span of about 30 years, someone who denies evolution would have to deny that the skulls changed, despite it being right in front of them
I addressed your "proof" above.


In other words, take nobody's word for it, no scientists, no philosophers, no-one. Test it for yourself. Don't rely on experiments done by others, that are published in journals. Act as no-one else said it. Don't demand that everyone else has to accept it, because 'loads of people accept it'. Be the lone scientist who does against everyone else. That is the only way to be sure. Trust no-one when it comes to science.
I agree. But, as I only have one life to live, I can't be a geologist, paleontologist, zoologist, anthropologist, chemist, biologist and historian. All I can do is my own research, gather as much information as i can from as many sources as possible, and make up my own mind on the works of others.
Creationists have the same problem, and are facing the same solution, just as you. So practically speaking, their view for them, MUST be, practically, treated as your view is for you, i.e. if you are right to believe in your view, then they are equally right to believe in their views, for exactly the same reason, the one you stated: But, as I only have one life to live, I can't be a geologist, paleontologist, zoologist, anthropologist, chemist, biologist and historian. All I can do is my own research, gather as much information as i can from as many sources as possible, and make up my own mind on the works of others.

I would like to put a question to you. You have given me a few arguments, which are based on reasons that apply just as much to support Creationists' views, as they do to support your own. So your own reasons for holding your views, seems to require that you would believe that Creationists are just as entitled to hold their views, as you hold yours. Yet, you seem of the opposite opinion. Can you explain how the conclusions that come from your arguments about the views of Creationists, are so opposing your own conclusions about the views of Creationists? Which one is right, your reason or your conclusions?
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 84
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 12:46:08 PM

I even LOL'd harder when evolution is really just built all in chance. Yeah, so if it's true why is earth the ONLY planet to benefit on that chance?


If that's what you think then you clearly have not understood anything you've read or heard. That's because evolution isn't entirely based on chance. Yes, there is an element of chance in that random mutations can result in changes to the organism that are either harmful, beneficial or neutral to the survival of the organism but the key is not chance. It's selection over generations or traits that enhance, not only the present organism, but its future generations.

This is why it's called natural selection.


The other 8 planets deserve a chance evolution too you know, soooo unfair.


Because they're not Earth. They're separate planets. Which means they have different conditions of composition, temperature, water. Anyone who has actually studied astronomy knows this.


In fact, all other solar system in our whole universe deserve that chance evolution and somehow earth is sooooooooooo special it is the only 1 that thrived in evolution. You know science piss me right off right there and then.


Science pisses you off? Seriously? How can you be so mad at something you clearly know so little about. For that matter, how do you know what planets "out there" do and do not have life? Have you traveled to them all and inspected them? And do please cite a scientifically credible source that indicates life is only possible here. I bet you can't.

In fact, I find it interesting how creationists always seem to be the ones making the grandest of proclamations about how things are one way and can not be any other way because of their magic sky sorcerer!
 Anchises
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 85
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 1:49:46 PM

Yes. You hit the nail on the head right there. And I thought you didn't understand ;)


Yes Earth is precisely in an orbit that is perfectly set for the right temperature. If it was a bit closer to the sun it would have been boiling water and if it was away from the sun a bit more it would have had frozen lakes and other states of matter, but the precision of the Earth is coincidence, the Earth is on a particular axis and if it shifted by a few degrees the Earth would be unbearable to live, but you say that right axis is just by chance? As the state of probability goes, basically Earth is a MIRACLE that happened by chance?

And I guess you believe have no soul.
 Anchises
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 86
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 1:53:01 PM

Dogs already "got lucky." If there is a God, He is a God of dogs. He only invented people to serve dogs by feeding & caring for them and cleaning up their crap. (Hmmm...serving God...serving Dog...Maybe the guy who wrote the Bible was dyslexic?)

I guess the real question is whether we were divinely put here to serve dogs, or simply evolved to be lower than dogs on the tree of evolution.


LOL. Yeah it's sad that dogs are cared for more in somce countries than humans are around the world. Um the Bible was translated into English, the original language of the Bible was Aramaic (older version of Arabic). Just saying.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 87
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Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 1:56:39 PM

As the state of probability goes, basically Earth is a MIRACLE that happened by chance?
Miracles infer divine intervention... I prefer to think of it as a fortunate happenstance.

Ain't we lucky that the other things you described aren't true so that we can even exist?


And I guess you believe have no soul.
As a kind of music, yes, I have soul... as a spiritual self... nope, souls are as non-existent as Santa and the Easter Bunny.
 Anchises
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 88
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 2:01:01 PM

These sort of statements bother me. This is someone who denies evolution, and I assume from this statement has 1: never educated themselves on evolution, or 2: hasn't even put any thought into what they've said.

Being edible is how fruits and vegetables survived!!! How did you think seeds got distributed!!???


Wow, watermelons are taking a big chance - did the DNA of watermelons know 'hey lets be edible, some thing must come along and try to cut us open and eat us hopefully, so we can have our seeds distributed.. la la la' -.-

If it was evolution and evolution is for survival - watermelons should have had some next method of distributing its seeds. Or was the way they were built and taste just by chance?
 Anchises
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 89
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 2:41:41 PM

Miracles infer divine intervention... I prefer to think of it as a fortunate happenstance.

Ain't we lucky that the other things you described aren't true so that we can even exist?


A fortunate happenstance that atheist unfortunately believe this is just a coincidence and human life was a mistake.

The probablity of all these things being precise for us to exist is luck and mishap for you, yet the chance of this is trillions in one and yet you deny a divine intervention.

The truth comes when a person is on there death bed.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 90
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Posted: 8/11/2011 2:44:42 PM

The truth comes when a person is on there death bed.
I've been on my death bed... doesn't change a damned thing.

Mistake, happenstance, coincidence... all pieces of the same pie.
 Anchises
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 91
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 3:08:29 PM

I've been on my death bed... doesn't change a damned thing.

Mistake, happenstance, coincidence... all pieces of the same pie.


Your last breath and you're still typing on POF. How sad.

mere coincidence happens with humans. Everything like the Universe isn't a mere coincidence. Nor is our planet.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 92
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Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 3:20:22 PM

Your last breath and you're still typing on POF. How sad.
Haha... now that's funny!

Fortunately for me, science saved me... not some nameless, faceless entity. A surgeon with his tools and team and technology saved my life. Pretty nifty stuff...


mere coincidence happens with humans. Everything like the Universe isn't a mere coincidence. Nor is our planet.
Prove it... show me that unique patented, Made By God stamp on the Earth and other planets and I'll eat the keyboard I'm typing on...

 Anchises
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 93
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/11/2011 4:35:45 PM
Haha... now that's funny!

Fortunately for me, science saved me... not some nameless, faceless entity. A surgeon with his tools and team and technology saved my life. Pretty nifty stuff...


That surgeon was born ignorant in the field of science, he had to learn and become a fundamentalist in the area that he is. His methods are not his but of some other surgeons of the pasts that are nameless to you and to him you're a nameless regular body if not after several days - if you passed away it would be another day. Time and time again - there are signs. And I'm glad you are able to sit here today and have a conversation. But believing that man is born intelligent right away is a bit naive.


Prove it... show me that unique patented, Made By God stamp on the Earth and other planets and I'll eat the keyboard I'm typing on...


Well I am sorry, but I can only answer you from an Islamic point of view, if that is alright with you?

The whole physical balance of the universe is adjusted delicately in favor of human life. With the advance of research, it has been discovered that the physical, chemical and biological laws of the universe, basic forces such as gravity and electro-magnetism, the structure of atoms and elements are all ordered exactly as they have to be for human life. Western scientists have called this extraordinary design the “anthropic principle”. That is, every aspect of the universe is designed with a view to human life.

•The speed of the first expansion of the universe (the force of the Big Bang explosion) was exactly the velocity that it had to be. According to scientists’ calculations, if the expansion rate had differed from its actual value by more than one part in a billion billion, then the universe would either have recollapsed before it ever reached its present size or else have splattered in every direction in a way never to unite again. To put it another way, even at the first moment of the universe’s existence there was a fine calculation of the accuracy of a billion billionth.
•The four physical forces in the universe (gravitational force, weak nuclear force, strong nuclear force, and electromagnetic force) are all at the necessary levels for an ordered universe to emerge and for life to exist. Even the tiniest variations in these forces (for example, one in 1039, or one in 1028; that is—crudely calculated—one in a billion billion billion billion), the universe would either be composed only of radiation or of no other element besides hydrogen.

The supposition whose falsity God reveals in the Qur’an (revealed 1400 years ago),

“We did not create heaven and earth and everything between them to no purpose. That is the opinion of those who disbelieve…” (Qur’an, 38: 27)

And that is only the beginning.
 inthroughtheoutdoor
Joined: 1/1/2011
Msg: 94
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/12/2011 10:25:12 AM

Yes Earth is precisely in an orbit that is perfectly set for the right temperature. If it was a bit closer to the sun it would have been boiling water and if it was away from the sun a bit more it would have had frozen lakes and other states of matter, but the precision of the Earth is coincidence, the Earth is on a particular axis and if it shifted by a few degrees the Earth would be unbearable to live, but you say that right axis is just by chance? As the state of probability goes, basically Earth is a MIRACLE that happened by chance?


This reminds me of one of those wow moment I had a few days ago...so me and my dog are out on one of our regular walks and everything is wet because it had rained the night before.

So we go to the park across the street and go on this dirt trail and we don't even go twenty feet and that's when I saw IT... laying right in front of us was a puddle of water. And you know what?? The hole or the indentation in the ground was the EXACT size and shape for the water!!!

Now I realise that we're not talking big numbers like the ones above or anything but still....what are the freakin odds that that hole "knew" exactly how big and how deep and what shape to be to match the water???

I'm not religious or anything but I fell on my knees and crossed myself right there and then just in case. But between you and me, I think we're talking MIRACLE here but I prefer to keep things under wrap for now because I don't think people will believe me anyway...I mean think about it...a hole in the ground in the middle of nowhere that's matched perfectly to hold each and every single drop of water that's in it.....you know how crazy that sounds?
 jay.m83
Joined: 5/18/2011
Msg: 95
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Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/12/2011 10:45:15 AM

Yes Earth is precisely in an orbit that is perfectly set for the right temperature. If it was a bit closer to the sun it would have been boiling water and if it was away from the sun a bit more it would have had frozen lakes and other states of matter, but the precision of the Earth is coincidence, the Earth is on a particular axis and if it shifted by a few degrees the Earth would be unbearable to live, but you say that right axis is just by chance? As the state of probability goes, basically Earth is a MIRACLE that happened by chance?


That's is only life on this planet. Life can still theoretically thrive on other planets as well. Just not us. As Irregular stated before, all that is really needed, is carbon, and water. And as I stated before they think there is a possibility of life under the ice of a moon orbiting Jupiter. That is a fair distance away from us. So all your arguments that involve the earth being the perfect distance, and yada yada yada is completely and utterly false. We are not a miracle, we are a statistical inevitability. Thank you for playing.
 Anchises
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 96
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/13/2011 2:41:46 AM
Irreg:

The earliest simple life-forms all life descended from.


Okay. But I asked where did DNA come from? And if all descended from it - than what was the point of reproduction. Why not become asexual - wouldn't it be better. How did the DNA know to make pairs opposite of one another?


Edible, …isn't a necessity, …adaptation to environment however, is.


Isn't evolution the same to be 'fit' in order to survive the environment. If there is no intent in evolution what's the point of it?


No, that's just another red herring.


How is that a 'red herring' ... Did the humans species just get lucky and become the dominant species of this planet? Simple question there's no rhetoric or idiom. And if your said "No" that we didn't get lucky than what do you think made us have dominion over this planet? Is our DNA like a Super-DNA compared to the rest of the DNAs out there?


The probability of "divine intervention is even less, …yet you believe in it.


Divine powers how can that be less - only an atheist would think that because to them the chances are 99% not in favour of divine intervention.
 Anchises
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 97
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/13/2011 3:39:29 AM

I'm not religious or anything but I fell on my knees and crossed myself right there and then just in case. But between you and me, I think we're talking MIRACLE here but I prefer to keep things under wrap for now because I don't think people will believe me anyway...I mean think about it...a hole in the ground in the middle of nowhere that's matched perfectly to hold each and every single drop of water that's in it.....you know how crazy that sounds?



That is amazing, but if you want to really be amazed just look with in yourself. Two quotes put it at best. Islamic quotes - the most pious and rigtheous Muslims that lived. If I may tell you them that hold the reply to your jestful comment:

"Your Remedy is within you, but you do not sense it.Your Sickness is from you, but you do not percieve it.You Presume you are a small entity,But within you is enfolded the entire universe.You are indeed the evident book,By whose alphabet the hidden becomes the manifest.Therefore, you have no need to look beyond yourself,What you seek is within you, if only you reflect." - Ali ibn abu Talib (radiAllahu anhu)

"You say that you are just a body, but inside of you is something greaterthan the Universe." - Imam Shafi (rahimullah)


Enjoy your early morning walk next time and hopefully you get a bigger picture.
 Anchises
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 98
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/13/2011 4:17:22 AM
That's is only life on this planet. Life can still theoretically thrive on other planets as well. Just not us. As Irregular stated before, all that is really needed, is carbon, and water. And as I stated before they think there is a possibility of life under the ice of a moon orbiting Jupiter. That is a fair distance away from us. So all your arguments that involve the earth being the perfect distance, and yada yada yada is completely and utterly false. We are not a miracle, we are a statistical inevitability. Thank you for playing.


Hmm, this brings two Qur'an verses - if I may to tell you.

The Qur'an [42:29] - And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them: and He has power to gather them together when He wills.

The Qur'an [65:12] - Allah it is He Who created seven heavens (Firmaments), and, like them, the earth. His commandment descends among them. (All this is being stated so that you know) that Allah has power over everything, and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge.

In the Qur'an well from that point of view it is confirming that there are planets like this one. "Of the earth- mean that just as this earth which is inhabited by man is serving as bed and cradle for the creatures living on it, so has AIlah made and set other earths also in the universe, which serve as beds and cradles for the creatures living on them. Moreover, there arc clear pointers in the Qur'an to the effect that living creatures are not found only on the earth but also in the heavens. In other words the countless stars and planets seen in the sky are not all lying desolate, but like the earth there are many among them which are and can be inhabited.

But I'm living on this planet and in this (our) solar system, so YES EARTH is in the PERFECT POSITION THAT IT IS IN TO BE ABLE to SUSTAIN LIFE.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 99
Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/13/2011 4:46:34 AM
Hmm, this brings two Qur'an verses - if I may to tell you.


As we must constantly remind the fundie Christians, so must we remind the fundie Muslims...holy books are not science textbooks.

Nothing you've stated is proof of the existence of god(s). In fact, you are using the god of the gaps argument, stating that, because we see things as they are, then that is proof of god(s). But I can make the same argument for the existence of magic unicorns, faeries or the flying spaghetti monster. It's nothing new.


In the Qur'an well from that point of view it is confirming that there are planets like this one. "Of the earth- mean that just as this earth which is inhabited by man is serving as bed and cradle for the creatures living on it, so has AIlah made and set other earths also in the universe, which serve as beds and cradles for the creatures living on them. Moreover, there arc clear pointers in the Qur'an to the effect that living creatures are not found only on the earth but also in the heavens. In other words the countless stars and planets seen in the sky are not all lying desolate, but like the earth there are many among them which are and can be inhabited.


Uncited quote is meaningless until we know where it is from.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 100
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Evolution vs Creationism/Intelligent Design
Posted: 8/13/2011 2:09:36 PM
I generally try not to get into this subject, but I thought I'd ask anyway. Why are so many religious believers threatened by evolution? Why can you not have your religion while accepting science? If you don't accept evolution, there are so many things that you have to deny exist or happened.


If you don't accept evolution, there are so many things that you have to deny exist or happened.

like what.
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