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Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > Live Cattle Exports      Home login  
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 internetdatinglol
Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 43
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Live Cattle ExportsPage 4 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
We can butcher them here (logistics and infrastructure concerns aside) but the fact remains there's a market for our live cattle overseas and if we don't fill it, some other country with lower standards will. We may as well ensure the market is humanitarian as possible in the meantime.
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 44
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 3/1/2012 11:59:45 PM
We had the infrastructure, but we let it decay when we caught live export fever.

RE: comment about them buying elsewhere...I listened to a speech by the meatworkers union last year and their rep gave a run down on our competitor markets. He gave an excellent explanation which I am not qualified to reproduce here, but wish I had a transcript to share. I can remember him saying......we are a stand out producer.... We undersell our product unnecessarily....we don't have to undersell our meat the way we do.

PS. the Indonesians are building their own stocks (breeding from the nice live ones we sent them, same as we enabled a few countries to do with our merinos ensuring they don't have to buy them from us anymore, how's that for smart thinking) and are reportedly planning on not buying from us for much longer. So livecorp and MLA and all the other big players are all just trying to make as much money from selling cows into torture while the sun shines. Never mind...Turkey likes to hang our sheep upside down and beat them before bleeding them whilst still alive. We will still have Turkey...

God I admire New Zealand for overcoming all these flimsy arguments and just doing what is right.
 internetdatinglol
Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 45
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Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 3/2/2012 12:04:34 AM
Actually New Zealand still has a live export industry and hasn't abolished it at all. My understanding is animals can still be exported for slaughter under the condition it doesn't affect the country's "trade reputation". Whatever that means.
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 46
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 3/2/2012 12:10:45 AM
They abolished export for slaughter in 2003. They don't export animals for slaughter. They do however export some breeding stock. I personally wish they didn't...but still admire them for bowing out of the bloody trade we're up to our necks in.

PS. Post a link if you've got alternative info...I'd be curious to read it next visit..., but right now I gotta go beat my sheep and threaten them with knives to get them into their pens for the night.
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 47
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 3/2/2012 4:04:01 PM
Australia had a thriving meat export program that was the envy of those from other countries in the same trade.

Our slaughtered carcases were being exported to countries such as South Africa, USA, Japan, UK, Indonesia and such.

Then the do-gooders got into the act and said that having a live export trade would benefit our economy and appease the religeous factions in the muslim world.

Our unions got upset and said that live exportatation of cattle and sheep would impact on the Australian workforce and it did.

Nearly all the abbattiors involved in the export of carcasses had qualified inspectors from the Islamic religeon employed to certify that the beef were slaughtered to their standards.

Australia was one of the first countries in the world to implement humane slaughtering of animals for human consumption if their is such a term.

I know for a fact that Naamah doesn't threaten her sheep with a beating or knives to get them into their pen of a night, Naamah uses hot chocolate drinks and bikkies.

 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 48
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 3/8/2012 2:47:17 AM
I see there is no further info on the previous claim that NZ still exports animals for slaughter? I gather then that the info that they stopped in 2003 is correct.


Australia had a thriving meat export program that was the envy of those from other countries in the same trade.

Our slaughtered carcases were being exported to countries such as South Africa, USA, Japan, UK, Indonesia and such.

Apparently so. And our frozen export market is apparently on the rise again now, driven by demand from o/s customers I might add, rather than through any sort of strong promotion on our part. The frozen market is not promoted as strongly as live export… live exporters invest a lot into seeking and developing new markets, spending tax dollars the government gives them to do so (farmers chip in half via levies they pay, and the other half is provided by government) whereas from what I am hearing, there is not anywhere near the same degree of assistance for those who wish to process locally. It’s pretty clear that government has a definite agenda with all of this…and it’s got far more to do with who is pulling whose strings and international maneuvering and very little to do with caring about Australians, jobs, or animal welfare.


appease the religeous factions in the muslim world

Just on that, the correct method of slaughter, (according to info from two Muslim groups whose senate submissions I read), should ensure that an animal is not unduly scared or distressed before slaughter (so throwing water over them and breaking tails and gouging eyes is not on) and that no animal sees another animal killed (like that touching footage of the trembling steer who has just watched his mates killed and cut up in front of him while he waits his turn, poor thing), and that no live animal sees the blood from other animals (let alone is dragged through it and killed in a pool of it as shown on footage from Indonesia). So these two groups submitted info that what we’re seeing in this sort of footage proves that this has nothing to do with religious dictates anyway. Another frequently posed defence shown up for the flimsy excuse it really is. Those torturing livestock are just sadists. Brave men with knives bullying restrained, defenceless, terrified animals.


I know for a fact that Naamah doesn't threaten her sheep with a beating or knives to get them into their pen of a night, Naamah uses … bikkies.
The problem is that Errol & Clark prefer vitaweats but Spencer prefers cruskits. There’s no pleasing some sheep.
 internetdatinglol
Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 49
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Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 3/8/2012 5:28:03 AM
http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/commercial-exports/animal-exports/export-livestock-slaughter

It's not a blanket ban on live export for slaughter. Exemptions exist (very similar to the regulations being applied here might I add).

That said, I don't really care about this topic enough either way to stay up to date on every nuance of killing cows. Sorry for the delay!
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 50
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 3/13/2012 6:40:12 AM

I don't really care about this topic enough either way to stay up to date on every nuance of killing cows.

Your contempt for this topic …and cows (those lowly ba$tards)…is duly noted. I can only express my sincerest gratitude that you do (despite your frequent reminder to us all about how boring it all is for you) continue to post on topics that are of such little interest to you. But aside from being tempted to sarcasm as a result of being bored by repeatedly reading about your boredom…some of the wording you used in stating that NZ still do live exports was rather surprising to me. Especially when for so long, I’ve heard this sort of thing …

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/saturdayextra/live-animal-trade-the-new-zealand-experience/2917316

This ^^^ is a link to a June 2011 audio interview with former Agricultural Minister/ Deputy PM from NZ talking about how during his time as the Agricultural Minister for NZ, the government banned sheep export in 2003, followed by banning live export on all animals in 2007. I tend to think he’s quite a good example of a reliable source of info about NZ export practices, being the Minister at the time an' all.

He does mention that there was an allowance for applications to be made by exporters for exemptions from the ban, but he states outright that there was not a single application for export for slaughter made over the years that followed, because the farmers (upset at first) ultimately came to realise they were better off without live export.

But perhaps there have been applications submitted since he stopped being the Minister…that, I can’t comment on, nor could I find any info on whether shipments of that nature have occurred in, say, the last year or so. But it was interesting to hear the former Minister talk about the economic benefits NZ found in stopping live export for slaughter…and if that if that is the case, I can’t imagine why the NZ industry would want to apply to do it again. And even if they did…sounds like the government requirements with regards to standards make it too tough to ever get permission.

With regards to the site you linked to, there seems to be a lot of regulations about exporting stuff like semen and embryos, bees, and non-commercial animals (like dogs and cats to Australia), etc, all of which are still under the banner of live animal export, even though we might immediately think the term purely applies to sheep/cows for slaughter. Admittedly, there was some mention of cattle/sheep regulations, but piecing together what has been said and written from that site and various sources, including things the former Minister said, my understanding is that their major focus remains on export for breeding, and that exporting of cattle.sheep for slaughter is highly unlikely because of the rigid criteria they impose before they’ll permit it. (explains the bit about protecting their reputation) Certainly, based on their stipulations, sales of cows to Indonesia that our mob are fine with, wouldn’t have a hope in hell of getting approved by NZ.

I tried to find some info on whether there have been applications, or shipments, of cows and sheep for slaughter in the last couple of years, but can only find stuff about other types of live export (breeding stock, bees; which they've now stopped, poultry () embryos, non-commercial animals etc). I did find some articles in 2010 where discussion centred around “would or wouldn’t NZ resume live export for slaughter”…but can’t find any conclusive confirmation that they did or have. However the standards contained on your referenced site look to be still under development, and there was mention of them being in force from 2012…whether that means anything is likely to change from their stance over the last few years, I wouldn't know. But I tend to think it's probably just a clarification of standards, and that it is likely to remain that export for slaughter is effectively blocked by those standards. If my understanding turns out to be wrong, then I'll be very sorry for the animals concerned.

Btw, on looking at their existing standards so far, I would not say they are similar to ours. For a start, our government didn’t have the compassion to mandate pre-slaughter stunning and Julia wouldn’t allow a conscience vote. Not that you care, but some people manage to. For NZ, it’s a compulsory standard…and probably one of the key limitations that stops anyone ever getting approval to export to some of the havens of cruelty that we export to.


Ultimately it's very difficult for Australian authorities to guarantee conditions in privately-held facilities in another country.
I think the public recognizes this
.

if we don't fill it, some other country with lower standards will. We may as well ensure the market is humanitarian as possible in the meantime.

Despite both of your above statements being made in the attempt to rationalise the continuation of live export, they pretty much cancel each other out, if not directly contradict each other. Basically you’re saying that everyone recognises that Australian authorities can’t do much about ensuring decent treatment of animals o/s, and then claiming that one reason we should keep sending cattle into o/s markets is so that we can ensure humanitarian treatment of those animals. …Damnit now, if people are going to start defeating their own arguments I’ll have to start declaring how bored I am.
 internetdatinglol
Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 51
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Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 3/13/2012 7:32:32 AM
Yeah I was only half-heartedly playing devil's advocate... if it was banned tomorrow I'd probably never bother thinking about it again. That said I also really don't care if it continues.
I just abhor an echo-chamber.:)
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 52
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 3/13/2012 7:58:29 AM
Indeed. And why would you bother to abhor the practice of inflicting (entirely avoidable) physical suffering on sentient beings when there are clearly more important issues to abhor, such internet discussion threads that become an echo chamber.
 internetdatinglol
Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 53
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Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 3/13/2012 6:00:47 PM
I think "sentient" is an interesting word to use. A cow's consciousness of pain is entirely different to ours as they have no concept of self. For this reason I see pain unnecessarily inflicted on most animals as being wrong, but not evil.
But yeah... what do you mean by "sentient"? That's an interesting question for me and something I can fairly confidently speak about.
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 54
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 4/26/2012 12:31:47 AM
^^^ We do have Burger King but they call themselves Hungry Jacks here.

That's awesome to read. It heartens me to see the start of change as people wake up to factory farming and stand up and say that's not the kind of world they want to perpetuate.

I saw a pic the other day, of some burgers and fries from each of McDonalds, Burger King, Wendies and some other take away place. Someone bought them and has had these burgers and fries sitting out, unrefrigerated, for 2 years now...and the bread is not mouldy, the cheese is not mouldy, not one fly has been attracted to it, and it's basically unchanged after 2 years ...because it's closer to plastic than real food. Seems people queue up by the millions to eat the food blowflies reject. That's what becoming obsessed with quick/cheap food causes people to end up swallowing. Ick.
 tinapenny
Joined: 8/30/2010
Msg: 55
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 4/26/2012 2:32:05 AM

I saw a pic the other day, of some burgers and fries...
Yes I saw that too but I question whether it was true. The only way it couldn't have attracted blowies or deteriorated in some way is if there was no moisture. It occurred to me (but maybe I'm just cynical) that people who were trying to make a point about fast food being nutritionally poor could have dried it to improve their story. They obviously went to the trouble of visiting four different fast food outlets to purchase a sample of their product so they've got a point to make.
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 56
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 4/26/2012 6:04:18 AM
I think someone maybe falsifying evidence somewhere here.

I used to buy in the same buns as McDonalds use and there is now way that they would last 3 days without going stale and mouldy.

The fries are made from potato, steamed, dried then par-cooked before being bagged and again the fries would not last 2 years before going off.

The burgers would also go off after 4 hours.

The cheese will go off after 4 hours.

Temperature and time also affect the growth of bacteria and at any good eating establishment they will keep records of temperature and the time the checks are done.

The growth of bacteria is really very fast and to give you the rate at which bacteria grow I will need to dig up all my research I had to do to attain my Food Safety Supervisors Certificate.

Every food and drink orientated business must comply with the Health Act, Food Act and the Food Standards, these are national mainstays of hospitality industry of Australia and New Zealand and then you through in the local council laws.

And yet we still have food poisoning occurring because of people being stupid.

I agree in what you are saying about the slaughter of animals should be humanely done
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 57
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Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 4/26/2012 6:13:28 AM
I think someone maybe falsifying evidence somewhere here.


Hang on a minute here... are you saying we can't trust these anonymous citizen-scientists? Even though there was a picture of food on the internet and everything?!

My world is turned upside-down
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 58
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 4/26/2012 7:08:24 AM
^^^ C'mon guys, it was on Facebook so I feel quite confident in standing by the accuracy of it.

Tina you'll notice that there was no sauce, no tomato, no moist stuff at all. Just bread meat and cheese. Maybe that has something to do with it. But there are others, and someone who has a 12 year old burger is making the same claim. Don't these people have bins? Maybe it's some kind of cult.

PS. Qld Blue...don't go digging in the archives...my hubby was a chef for 20 years too...and given that he stuck a magnet on the fridge that says "I don't use google cos my husband knows everything" I can just ask him when he's back tomorrow. :)
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 59
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 4/27/2012 1:05:35 AM
I don't believe it, Naamah is deferring to her husband, shock horror and I thought the day would never arrive, seriously tho', there are some weird and wacky foods out there.

As well there are people who will push their ideas with little or no real evidence of containing much truth.

As a chef, I preferred to use foods and ingredients that for me meant that very few or any chemicals were used and animals were slaughtered as humanely as possible.

It has been proven over many years and tests that the more chemicals introduced into food raises the risk of putting lives at risk through allergy's.

Believe it or not but when cattle, sheep and pigs are slaughtered by any means that causes a lot of stress to the animals the meat can be tougher because of the stress in the animal being very high, it is marvelous how governments and or organizations will carry out experiments for any number of reasons.

A simple experiement into stress levels can be carried out by the ordinary person, if you are stressed then your body tenses up but if your relaxed then the tenseness in your body is very low.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 60
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Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 4/27/2012 4:37:07 AM
Affogato.

Always sounded like a cat with attitude to me...
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 61
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Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 5/24/2012 1:10:44 AM
^^^ I guess you haven't been to India!
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 62
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 5/24/2012 2:33:03 AM

since I am a meat eater don't I, by the virtue of my "diet" perpetuate the bovine existance moreso than non meat eaters?

Im getting Deja Vu here so because im a lazy cow here is a response I prepared earlier (Post 42 I believe)

"Are cows really only here for us to use, abuse and eat?........don't other species of animals have the right to live for their own means, not just to feed us?

Personally I think its almost funny how vegetarians are viewed as people who just don't want animals killed when in fact many of us simply don't eat meat because we object to the cruel way animals are farmed."

So yes, by eating cows you may perpetuate the bovine existance, if you believe that cows are only here to feed us.....but you also perpetuate and continue the belief, that cruelty to animals we produce for food is acceptable and just part of farming.....hence battery cages, sow crates and feedlots.

Also, just before you tuck in did you know that in those feedlots.......female cows are implanted with testosterone and male steers are implanted with oestrogen. Just as nature intended....and we wonder why less and less of us are able to reproduce without artificial help. Doh!
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 63
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 5/25/2012 1:18:46 AM

"Are cows really only here for us to use, abuse and eat?........don't other species of animals have the right to live for their own means, not just to feed us?



Regarding the snarky remark about cows only being here to feed us


Dunno how you got snarky out of that but I guarantee, I can do snarky far better then that when the need arises ;-)
I simply don't aspire to the thought process, whereby all things on earth are only here for my benefit....strange huh??
 tensail
Joined: 10/15/2009
Msg: 64
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 5/25/2012 2:19:41 AM
capatilism =coruption.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 65
Live Cattle Exports
Posted: 9/28/2012 4:17:04 AM
After the sheep debacle in the Middle east there are nationwide rally's being held in every capital city on Saturday 06/10/12. :-)
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