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 blackchic
Joined: 1/13/2011
Msg: 98
Multiple MarriagesPage 5 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
You need to ask Elizabeth Taylor, God rest her soul.....married 8 times.
 unclezeus
Joined: 5/12/2011
Msg: 99
Multiple Marriages
Posted: 8/31/2011 9:43:55 AM

Suppose the first spouse, say, cheated, and the second one was abusive, or developed other very negative tendencies?


Ya, I would still say don't try any more. You're either not observant or you're impatient about getting married, and missing all these red flags.


Was their partner supposed to merely lie back and take it, or remain in a lifetime commitment where they weren't the one who betrayed the trust?


Whatever they do is their decision.
 sweetness-one
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 100
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Multiple Marriages
Posted: 8/31/2011 12:33:50 PM

Ya, I would still say don't try any more. You're either not observant or you're impatient about getting married, and missing all these red flags.


As I said, people in general tend to be more tolerant of situations that are similar to their own. Some would equally find it a red flag that a person was in their 50s and never married, as evidenced by the numerous threads that have existed on that topic, but likely not if that person was also in their 50s and never able to have committed to another either.



Actually, I think people should have to put on their profiles how many times they've been married and state specifically if they are divorced. They should not be able to say they are single when they are, in fact, divorced....it doesn't matter how many years it has been since their divorce.


Again, situations mirroring personal tolerance levels or lack thereof. I'd personally prefer to see listed how many children out of wedlock someone has, with the number of baby mamas/daddys for the brood; I'd find that more of a red flag in most cases than number of divorces (within reason). But I do agree, whether divorced last year, or 20 years ago, one is still divorced.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 101
Multiple Marriages
Posted: 8/31/2011 12:47:50 PM

I'd personally prefer to see listed how many children out of wedlock someone has, with the number of baby mamas/daddys for the brood; I'd find that more of a red flag in most cases than number of divorces
I'm curious in what way you feel this is more of a red flag?
 sweetness-one
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 102
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Multiple Marriages
Posted: 8/31/2011 1:03:24 PM

I'm curious in what way you feel this is more of a red flag?


Oh, not necessarily MORE of a red flag, but certainly a different one and again, as I said, most people will be more tolerant of situations that mirror their own. (Note I also said 'within reason' for both situations). But yes, while I might approach a twice-divorced man cautiously, I'd take an outright pass on a man with six children with six different women. To each their own.

I find it amusing in this thread though, that many have lived common-law with partners, had children, pretty much married in all but on paper...and yet several of such are holier than thou and taking pride that they DIDN'T get the piece of paper. Like it really makes that much a difference in those cases.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 103
Multiple Marriages
Posted: 8/31/2011 1:19:08 PM
^^ I was just wondering what you meant by the matter of having children 'out of wedlock' in contrast to someone who has been divorced more than once. Personally I don't see too much of a difference there.

I find it amusing in this thread though, that many have lived common-law with partners, had children, pretty much married in all but on paper...and yet several of such are holier than thou and taking pride that they DIDN'T get the piece of paper. Like it really makes that much a difference in those cases.
Some people take pride in the fact that they did not have children out of wedlock, even though the marriage did not last. Is their 'pride' any less or more valid than you the one you mention?
 BigSpoon80
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 104
Multiple Marriages
Posted: 8/31/2011 1:25:24 PM
I was conceived in wedlock as a last ditch effort to save a failed marriage. Just because a child is born within a marriage doesn't make the decision to have a child righteous or correct. For the most part EVERYONE has the desire/need to propagate their species. Weather its in or out of wedlock doesn't make a difference. Someone is still going to find a way to try and judge you if their situation is different.
 sweetness-one
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 105
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Posted: 8/31/2011 2:02:48 PM

^^ I was just wondering what you meant by the matter of having children 'out of wedlock' in contrast to someone who has been divorced more than once. Personally I don't see too much of a difference there.


I don't see much difference there either. And yet many have stated in this thread that dating someone with two divorces is to be avoided, yet don't seem to consider two common-law relationships that end (with or without children) to be the same at all, when the end result really is pretty much the same.

Again, as I said, 'within reason'. I would view six divorces to be something to be as leery of as someone with six children with six different partners. Two divorces or two kids with different partners? Would be more 'within reason' but that is just my opinion.


Some people take pride in the fact that they did not have children out of wedlock, even though the marriage did not last. Is their 'pride' any less or more valid than you the one you mention?


Nobody's 'pride' is any less or more valid than others. Which is what I said I find ironic. Many have stated that 'two or more marriages equals a person unable to commit/doesn't take it seriously/etcetc'. To which they are entitled their opinion. Some might equally view a brood of children with different partners to be the same sort of sign of being 'unable to commit/doesn't take it seriously/etcetc' as well. As I said, to each their own.


Just because a child is born within a marriage doesn't make the decision to have a child righteous or correct.


Of course it doesn't. For some it might depend on their religious or other beliefs, for others, not. Just as choosing not to get married doesn't make a decision more 'correct' or 'righteous' either.


Someone is still going to find a way to try and judge you if their situation is different.


Didn't I already say this several times? People are always going to be more tolerant of situations that mirror their own, or that they can relate to. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it wrong.

My point was, whether a relationship ends in divorce, or just ends...both could be of equal longevity, some might result in children, some might not. And yet so many posters in this thread have said divorce=unable to commit/flaky/whatever.

What's the real difference? There will always be a tit for tat situation, depending on one's point of view.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 106
Multiple Marriages
Posted: 8/31/2011 2:15:23 PM
Sweetness:
many have stated in this thread that dating someone with two divorces is to be avoided, yet don't seem to consider two common-law relationships that end (with or without children) to be the same at all, when the end result really is pretty much the same.
I totally agree and have said as much in this thread. We've ALL had multiple 'failed' relationships, why would marriage change the connotation?

Because marriages are supposed to last forever? Well how often does that happen?

Nobody's 'pride' is any less or more valid than others.
I was just asking for clarity's sake, I get where you are coming from now.
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 107
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Posted: 8/31/2011 5:39:08 PM
Great points by both shakti and sweetness. In my earlier post my ex was proud of the fact that her kids (ages 25,24,20 all still living at home) were from the same man (she married twice). Unfortunately, all 3 of her previous marriages were violent. Marriages 2 and 3 over within a year. She was arrested for assault on husband 2. I own up to my part in being on this turbulent rollercoaster. Same ex I mentioned in narcissist thread. Knowledge was important in me acknowledging that these were serious red flags. Glad she revealed these things to me early. Unfortunately it lasted 5 years on and off.
 abashi
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 108
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Posted: 8/31/2011 5:47:03 PM
ill plea for the latter, i am a really poor judge of charecter. 7 weddings 6 divorces and one anullment.
the odds of a man with those numbers ever sucessfully finding a serious relationship are practally zero.
add to it , that im homeless(live with parents and dont own a car) and you have mathmaticle formula for a complete looser.
however, (you knew that comming) the story is a bit more complex than it seems.
i am honest, and very likeable, easy to love even,
but i tend to believe everyone at face value, just like me, this system doesnt work very well, but its the only one i've got.
 Bobby135
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 109
Multiple Marriages
Posted: 8/31/2011 6:43:51 PM
I've been married 4 times and now divorced 4 times. All had different beginnings and endings. First time young and dumb, she got pregnent and we got married. Lasted less than 3 years. I got transfered to Germany and she found a new man while I was gone. 2d time a little older but still young and dumb. Lasted less than 3 years. Was stationed in Georgia and took her down there with me. While I was at work on the Army post she called her mother and had her send her the money to come home. No goodby or anything. I got home and she was gone. 3rd time I was a little older but still dumb. She got pregnant, we got married. This one lasted 17 1/2 years. Will say that the divorce was all my fault. Had a beautiful caring wife. I was a drunk and ran around on her. Still love her today and we are friends and she is like a daughter to my mother. The 4th one was the biggest mistake I have ever made. We dated and lived together for 4 years. Everything was great. Then I started finding empty boxes stacked in the basement. Thought that she was going to leave me, so I asked her to marry me. (Still dumb even though a lot older). As soon as we got married she did a complete 180 and it went down hill from there. Everything that she liked to do before, she no longer wanted to do. She wouldn't even go dancing anymore. I still stuck around and we were married for 17 1/2 years. So a total of over 20 years with her. Been divorced now for almost 3 1/2 years and just started dating in July. Do I want to get married again? No, Will I? ????? It seems that some of the women that I have met, even though they say in there profiles that they want to go slow and extablish a friendship, start thinking marriage by the 2d date. Also some that have told me they are not looking for marriage, change their minds real quick and start talking marriage in the future. Was supposed to have a 2d date with one that was about 100 miles away and she started talking getting married in a year. I at first said maybe in 4 or 5 and she got upset. So I told her that I really didn't want to get married again. She hung up on me and I haven't heard from her since. And I thought that I was safe as she was legally seperated not divorced. As for me, I'm probably to honest for my own good. I have told every woman that I have been in contact with that I have been married 4 times. Don't believe in hiding anything.
 abashi
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 110
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Posted: 8/31/2011 6:56:58 PM
ive been married 7 times
5 divorces one anulment and one pending, im just here to visit
 ferruginous
Joined: 12/16/2009
Msg: 111
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Posted: 8/31/2011 10:14:20 PM
Maybe I'm judgemental, but I'd consider it a turn-off if a person's had numerous previous marriages.
I'd immediately suspect that the person, who seems to have a history of disposable marriages, doesn't really view marriage as seriously as I personally believe marriage should be viewed.

I've never been married. But, if/when I ever do get married, I'd be hoping that it would last forever. I don't know if the person, with the history of brief marriages, has that same view towards marriage.

I'm not saying with certainty that I wouldn't consider a relationship with someone who's had multiple marriages. I'm just saying that I may be a little skeptical about whether or not they have the same view of marriage as I would have.



All that's wrong with them is that they (more often than not) are trying to conform to society's or their chosen religion's expectations.
I believe that most of the religions you are refering to, actually expect people to marry for life. Not for a couple of years.



I don't see much difference there either. And yet many have stated in this thread that dating someone with two divorces is to be avoided, yet don't seem to consider two common-law relationships that end (with or without children) to be the same at all, when the end result really is pretty much the same.
Good point about common law relationships.
I'd actually consider someone who's had numerous common law relationships to be about the same as someone who's had numerous brief marriages.
 1in1000000000
Joined: 10/17/2010
Msg: 112
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Posted: 9/1/2011 10:11:47 PM
I believe that most of the religions you are refering to, actually expect people to marry for life. Not for a couple of years.


Whenever I give my opinion on any topic, I am considering typical relationships in North America (particularly USA), or average people in N America (particularly USA). So I am referring to Abrahamic religions in general, Christianity in particular, and Protestantism specifically, since that is the dominant (Protestantism) religion in the USA.

Of those, only Catholicism expects people to marry for life. Catholicism isn't most people's religion in the USA, though there are a lot of Catholics here. Judaism--no problem for divorce. Islam--no problem, ultimately. Protestantism--no problem, and probably has the highest divorce rates. But if we want to be inclusive, Buddhism even--no problem. Hinduism--no problem nowadays.

I meant that Protestants in particular, and Christians in general often marry because they want to appease society and their own personal idea of "God", and they don't want to look bad to either one. Socially speaking, they want to save face and maintain a certain reputation, which includes letting everyone *believe* they are upstanding, moral citizens who would not just "shack up" with a sex partner, or "knock a woman up" who is not his wife, or bear children outside of a good Christian marriage ( even if it's o.k. to conceive the child prior to getting married, and definitely o.k. to copulate outside that "good, Christian marriage", and abortions are still holy & reputable, too; only babies being born is the sinful part, see).

To reiterate, lots of people marry in order to keep up appearances, or even to "keep up with the Joneses", or to conform to arbitrary societal "norms".

Anyone who believes it is a citizen's responsibility to conform to arbitrary societal "norms" (meaning laws that have a debatable moral or holy basis) should not be faulting anyone who has been married or divorced multiple times.

If Joe Blow hadn't married each of the mothers of each of his children, he'd be subject to receiving the judgmental ostracism that the one poster a few posts up is just waiting to unleash on men with multiple children from multiple women, along with a huge gallery of others who would happily join in throwing the stones. Or if he married no woman and had no children, he'd be widely suspected of being either a gigolo or a homosexual, or something else abnormal and dysfunctional. If Jane Blow hadn't married her guys, she'd be open to even worse societal wrath, especially if she would be so "audacious" as to become a mother (of all things), bearing one or more children without having first gone through all the legal and religious rituals that are ostensibly (though not seriously) directed by "God". Even if she is childless, she risks being tried and convicted by a jury NOT of her peers, if she reaches age 30 or so and still hasn't gone down the aisle with *some* kind of a yahoo she can tolerate long enough to just make things "look right".

We all live in glass houses. It's just that many of our homes are located in La La Land.
 chinadol6977
Joined: 6/24/2011
Msg: 113
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Posted: 9/1/2011 11:17:49 PM
I have been married once,I wouldn't do it again.I realized that many people don't respect marriage,it's just something to do..The words" To death do us part",are useless,and for show..It should say "until I find something else to do with my spare time".....
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 114
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Posted: 9/2/2011 9:49:42 PM
@chinadol6977: How about instead of "till death do us part" substitute "until somebody else better comes along" or "until I trade you in for a newer model". Donald Trump does this! I posted earlier about my ex being divorced 3 times. The red flag I missed was when she spoke about it all the blame was on them. She played victim role and did not own up to her part. It does take 2 to tango!
 kevinlovett1976
Joined: 9/15/2010
Msg: 115
Multiple Marriages
Posted: 9/2/2011 9:53:36 PM
As long as they were given legitemate reasons to walk, i really dont care if they've been married 465.4 times before the age of 30. Truth is, sometimes it just doesnt work out. You marry someone thats on the level even.....people still change. It's just unfortunate that not everybody's always on the same page but thats just how it is.
 Rain587
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 116
Multiple Marriages
Posted: 9/2/2011 10:31:55 PM
Bobby135, awesome beautiful catch!!! I'm going fishing this weekend and seeing those fish has me excited.

Everyone's situations are different for why they have been married and divorced whether multiple times or once. Until you know them judging isn't right. The same with having children out of wedlock - many different circumstances.

I've been married twice. 1976 to 1984 and he turned to drugs and got violent and I divorced him. I stayed single raising my kids alone while going back to college. I rarely dated and then went into a long term relationship from 1990 - 1995 and in the end his manipulative selfish ways were too much for me. I left.

I married for the second time in 1996 thinking it would be safe and a good family life. He went to church, had custody of his kids, we did family stuff - boating, camping, etc but then his ex kept coming back into the picture and after years of that along with other issues; separated from him in 2009 then filed in 2010. I am legally divorced - it's final. We still own a home together until the economy picks up. No fighting. No stress.

Lately the men I've dated or talked to have been very pushy, clingy, and want to jump into long term or want a booty call. Am I discouraged? No. I am part of meetup so maybe "the one" will show up at one of the events.

Will I marry again? I may change later but right now I am happy single. And I spend more time in the forums then searching for a match. These things are addicting.



 recreator611
Joined: 1/29/2011
Msg: 117
Multiple Marriages
Posted: 9/3/2011 5:02:42 AM
yep....might date them but as for getting married to-em....nope....somethings wrong!
 ferruginous
Joined: 12/16/2009
Msg: 118
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Posted: 9/3/2011 8:22:44 AM

Whenever I give my opinion on any topic, I am considering typical relationships in North America (particularly USA), or average people in N America (particularly USA). So I am referring to Abrahamic religions in general, Christianity in particular, and Protestantism specifically, since that is the dominant (Protestantism) religion in the USA.

Of those, only Catholicism expects people to marry for life. Catholicism isn't most people's religion in the USA, though there are a lot of Catholics here. Judaism--no problem for divorce. Islam--no problem, ultimately. Protestantism--no problem, and probably has the highest divorce rates.
I will agree that there may be a high divorce rate among protestants. But, I can assure you that "until death do us apart" is an essential part of traditional protestant wedding vows.
 ferruginous
Joined: 12/16/2009
Msg: 119
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Posted: 9/3/2011 8:30:24 AM
It's interesting that many of the people, who've had multiple marriages, try to justify their numerous marriages by blaming their past partners for the divorces.
"He turned to drugs"
"She was a psycho"
"He was having an affair with his coworker"
"She cheated"
"He had issues"
etc
etc

At what point should someone admit, and take responsibility for, their own poor judgement?
 1in1000000000
Joined: 10/17/2010
Msg: 120
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Posted: 9/3/2011 7:10:53 PM

But, I can assure you that "until death do us apart" is an essential part of traditional protestant wedding vows.


I don't doubt it, but regardless of what the vows, or the partners say, the Protestant Church does not forbid or take any stance against divorce. In fact, I think it if were up to ministers instead of judges, to issue divorce decrees, it wouldn't make a big difference. I doubt the rates would go down to any appreciable level. People are going to throw that "'til death do us part" vow straight out the window once they begin feeling like that spouse is no longer their spouse in their hearts or spiritually speaking. I personally see no good reason why a couple should stay together forever if they either can no longer stand one another, or one can't stand the other, or it has become evident that the union has otherwise become pointless or shouldn't have been to begin with.

In response to your other post, regarding poor judgment, what's the difference between poor judgment in marrying, and poor judgment in being with mates you don't marry? To me, this whole criticism of multiple spouses is very much like the criticism of multiple fathers/mothers of someone's children. Single parents who have children with multiple fathers/mothers get criticized, why? Only because there is evidence (children) of presumably poor judgment. Also, because they aren't married. People who are childless (or maybe have only one child) don't get criticized, even though they may have had five or ten children aborted. Why? No evidence of their presumably poor judgment. The evidence in this present case is multiple divorces. Those who didn't marry multiple mates (though they may have had multiple relationships), have no evidence there to convict them. People are way too hung up on "marriage" (mere secular legalities) in this society.
 CarpeOmnia
Joined: 1/18/2009
Msg: 121
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Posted: 9/3/2011 7:46:50 PM
If you check out the threads where the subject of marriage is brought up, you will find a large percentage of posters talking about how there is not an appreciable difference between living common-law or being married these days.
When a common-law relationship breaks up, it can get just as dirty and litigious. There is property to be settled, child maintenance, heart break, etc. All the same fun stuff that a divorcing couple goes through.

Marriages break up for the same reasons that common-law relationships break up.
For some reason some folks try to make it seem a weaker solution if it was a marriage that broke. For example: If my common-law husband of 7 years made a baby with someone else....and the relationship ended because of this...then I guess it's alright. BUT...if you were married in this situation, then shame on you for not staying in the marriage, something wrong with your judgment if you leave(who knew 7 years ealier that your spouse would do this?).

Going back to my initial paragraph, I am wondering: For all those posters who claim that marriage is "Just a Piece of Paper". Why isn't divorce also "Just a piece of Paper"?
 ferruginous
Joined: 12/16/2009
Msg: 122
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Posted: 9/3/2011 8:13:50 PM

In response to your other post, regarding poor judgment, what's the difference between poor judgment in marrying, and poor judgment in being with mates you don't marry?
Not much.

I did state, in an earlier post in this thread:
I'd actually consider someone who's had numerous common law relationships to be about the same as someone who's had numerous brief marriages.
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