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 RandomScause
Joined: 8/16/2011
Msg: 61
Deep sleep nude photo shootPage 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
+++++To illustrate this, say she had been in the shower with the curtain partly open, and the guy walked in and took a picture. Would the same priniciple apply, that she had no expectation of privacy because she was naked in the shower? How is being naked in bed any different? +++++

Good point. There are two things to consider: privacy, and expectations of privacy.

When in your home or in someone else's home or in a public establishment a person goes to a little room and closes the door behind, then the person is expecting to be private.

The shower thing is halfway there. If the door to the washroom is left open or unlocked, then she still can be said to expect to be private in the shower, if the shower is demarcated by at least an opaque courtain or material, and is less than see-through.

If she locks the door, she is certainly expecting to be in privacy.

If she is, however, in a position in which she is fully exposed, in any attire all the way down to being completely stark naked; and she is aware of others being able to see her in this state; and she is not doing anything to stop the process, then she is NOT expecting to be in complete privacy.

---------

If, however, she is forced to take off her clothes, and display to her audience her naked body unwillingly, it can be argued that she still expected privacy from the public eye, it's just she was not given the privacy she expected. This time the onlookers can be charged with voyeurism, as well as the perpetrators of this event can be charged with two plethoras of other charges: forcible confinement, bodily assault (if they touched her in the process at any time, in any part of her body), uttering a threat, etc. etc. But the important part for our illustration is that she is still EXPECTING privacy. The onlookers, whoever it happens to be, can be charged with voyeurism.

In the case of lovers, the woman is expecting her lover to see her completely stark naked body. No voyeurism charges can be laid agaisnt him. Whether he takes photos of her or not.

This vindicates him, because it is an essential point in the articled law that the person who gets her body taken a photo of, is in a state when she is NOT expecting to be seen or observed naked. The photographing is not part of the expectation, as written in the law, but the mere act of being seen is, or the knowledge that others can see her in this state, whether she knows who they are or not.

--------

Let's imagine that the law was worded differently, and it was worded that her consent needs to be given to be photographed.

What would this lead to?

1. In nudist colonies, no photos could be taken without consent. As we speak, there is no law against that, although the colonies themselves may have their own private by-laws regarding that.
2. A woman could not take a picture of her naked husband, without his consent.
3. In greasy, sleezie places the model would need to give his or her permission to people who photograph the model in exchange for a nominal fee.
4. Photos of public, family-type places or gatherings may have people, esp. young children in the photo, inadvertently, and not for bad purposes. Parental consent would be need for anyone to take a picture on a family gathering.
5. Photos of disasters and rescue efforts must have the consent of such victims that are naked, or exposed in genitalia. Remember, the consent must be given first, because the consent is not for publication, but for photographing.
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In the case of 1., nudist colonies, who knows, who cares.
2., is stifling, because there is need to prove in case of a court case that consent was asked and given or not given. You can prove that consent was given, if it is in written form. If consent was given verbally, with no witnesses, then that can be denied. This could lead to a lot of unnecessary litigation. (So I don't know why this is not law -- the lawyers who are Congressmen make law. Why do they limit their own money making opportunities? Mystery.)
3. If the model is to give her consent each time, she will be stalked sooner or later, she would not be able to hide or protect her real identity.
4. Stifling, like in case 2.
5. Stifling.

You see, law makers have to decide how to make laws that protect most, but do not take away too much freedom from Americans. A consent to take photos would necessarily reduce the amount of honest and fun fotographing, it would reduce the amount of news photography that otherwise supports the ideals of democracy and humanitariasm, and it would reduce the amount of money making opportunities for sleaze-parlor operators, while endangering the lives or safety of the women who work there.

I agree this law, this consent requirment, if in effect, then would save this fake woman's (the OP) fake skin in her alleged job, but it would also make life less fun and less free for all other Americans.

There is a way to show that all laws, each and every one of them, is not only inconveniencing some, but can cause big trouble to honest citizens, who are not intending to break the law. Each law has the potential that when applied, it would produce injustice.

We live in a physical world which is not perfect, and never can become perfect. Unfortunately, the world was designed by a designer God who was not very intelligent after all. Any regular House Subcommittee made up by common congressmen could design a much better world, from scratch, I am telling you, than our present good-for-nothing unintelligent, lazy, untrustworthy and inconsistent God has for us.
 cin____dy
Joined: 8/21/2011
Msg: 62
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/6/2011 8:51:38 PM
There are some laws on the books about video taping people in personal situations without consent, such as in restrooms and such. This would be a tough one because you would need the proof and also prove you did not consent.
The guy is a pervert and has no respect for women or boundaries. Someday I hope we can find a way to stop this legally.
 Simon4567
Joined: 10/9/2010
Msg: 63
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/6/2011 11:24:55 PM

After having dated this guy from POF for three months, he tells me that he took nude pictures of me while I was sleeping. but defended it as something perfectly normal.


*jaw drops*

Did the guy have a paper thin mustache, wear big glasses and dance the CREEP!?!?!
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 64
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Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/6/2011 11:57:45 PM
How do you women end up picking these guys ?!

What a sicko !

I suggest you talk to a lawyer and tell him the situation , get legal aid if necessary or just make out a police report . Then inform your guy that you have notified the authorities and if those photos ever surface then you are going to have his sorry butt thrown in jail .

Unless you are making this all up to which case get a life .
 Greatcatch12345
Joined: 5/2/2011
Msg: 65
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 12:37:58 AM
150 pounds heavier?/ that would put him at close to 300 pounds!! why u even dating this pig?/lol...
 m14shooter
Joined: 10/2/2009
Msg: 66
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Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 12:43:11 AM

because he never had the decency to come to my house or make an appointment to meet with me so he can delete them in my presence.


Sorry to say but there really is no way to prove they are deleted even if he deletes them in your presence. The think about digital and even print film is you can make as many copies or prints as you want or write them to as many hard drives as you want. There is no way you will ever know for sure. I am a pro photographer and I have multiple drives with all my images stored in my office, my safety deposit box and at my office, I'm sure if he says he deleted them or did it in front of you they may still exist. Even with negatives they can still exist because they can be scanned to digital.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 67
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 12:56:57 AM

I filed a report with the police, it is on file and that is it.

Then you hosed yourself. The existence of the photos is now a matter of record and if you really are a public figure, all anyone has to do is run across that police report to know where to go for the photos. I really doubt the public figure story. If you were a public figure and this mattered, you would have known to seek the advice of an attorney before filing that police report.
 butterflie_1207
Joined: 2/8/2011
Msg: 68
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 1:12:46 AM
I agree with M14shooter, even if he deletes them from his phone, you have no way of knowing how many copies he may have of them.

It is a violation and he had no right to do that without your consent. If you were to contact a lawyer or file a police report, he may fear prosecution, but in the long run it probably wouldn't make any real difference.
 orionids4ever
Joined: 8/14/2011
Msg: 69
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 7:49:11 AM
You are thinking way too high in matters of public figure. I am not a politician. I am a nobody that would get fired if my pictures shows on the net. That is all. I am done with this now.
 MarTini0102
Joined: 6/19/2011
Msg: 70
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 4:33:15 PM
k ... sleeping with some one after 3 mth ....you can not tell me that you know some one after 3 month ... that is all I have to say
 bt99340
Joined: 8/26/2008
Msg: 71
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Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 6:44:12 PM
No one can control what another person does....Next time make sure the person you sleep with is truly a good person. If he were a good guy he would respect your request..
 mysteriosa
Joined: 5/19/2006
Msg: 72
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Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 6:50:18 PM
His behaviour was poor and a breach of trust, if you did not give permission for those pictures. Once he realised you weren't happy about it, he should have deleted them. It could be he just thought you were beautiful and wanted to capture pictures for himself, but he should have realised pretty quickly that you were unhappy about it and sought to put things right.

The fact that he justified himself and still wouldn't agree to delete the pictures is worrying. It isn't normal to do what he did. It is a breach of trust. I don't suppose you want to take a legal route over this but I would be tempted to write to him by email (keeping a copy) and make it clear that I wanted him to delete any pictures he took of me without my permission. In fact, I would probably tell him that what he did was illegal and he needs to resolve this issue. Whether he will or not is another matter and of course you need to consider whether you want to continue on speaking terms with him or not. If you were happy about it at the time and are only now complaining because you've split up, that would be a bit unfair. However, even so, he should respect your wishes if you ask him to delete intimate photos of you now that you are no longer together.

If he definitely took pictures of you and has refused to delete them despite your complaints, then why not report him to PoF? I don't know if they can do anything but shouldn't PoF be informed if people are using this site to meet people and then doing this kind of thing? Maybe the threat of doing so will make him think twice.
 Laha Math
Joined: 7/15/2010
Msg: 73
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 7:14:32 PM
OP: I don't think you have to pay a lawyer. Call your local police station, describe what happened, and get an opinion. Then just tell the guy what he did was illegal and if he doesn't delete the photos in a way you are satisfied they are gone you will report him. What he did is most likely sexual harassment or sexual assault under today's liberal legislation in many jurisdictions.
 sexymind85
Joined: 8/10/2011
Msg: 74
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 8:14:09 PM
Wow. I just got done reading through this whole thread. I'm amazed at the way some people interpret the law. You all need to take a lesson on how to read criminal code before telling her to sue over 'dissemination of voyeurism' or anything else!!!

Let's leave this poor OP alone. She already said she's done. And if she needs legal advice she can go get it from someone who knows how to read the laws.
 3xsacharmsotheysay
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 75
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/7/2011 8:24:31 PM
Yes seek legal advice and if what your saying is true this guy needs to be reported to POF so some other woman is not taken advantage of as well!!!
 RandomScause
Joined: 8/16/2011
Msg: 76
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/9/2011 5:10:01 PM
Silken Fire, I am curious. In this case the proper reading of the law shows clear evidence that privacy was not expected. But like you say, very rightfully, a case can still be heard.

What are the chances (in your opinion as a paralegal) that the defence may ask the court to throw the case out because it is "frivolous" (meaning a waste of the court's time and the only purpose it would serve would not contribute to a decision or to justice)?

Perhaps a precedence of conviction in an essentially similar case exists since the law had been ratified. The plaintiff may cite that. In that case the hearing would continue.

I am not even near to being a lawyer. I am curious, however, what circumstances would allow a judge to bring down a verdict in a case, this case a criminal case, in which the written code has been proven to not have been violated?

In other words, if a law says thou shalt not do X, and a person is charged under this law, despite it being obvious to everyone that he has not done X; then what are the possible instances in which the case can proceed?

I am asking this question removed from our OP's situation. I would like to know, if you would be so kind as to tell me, with your impressive background, that in a case where "guilty beyond any reasonable doubt" is needed to be proven, what are the chances of a process if a person about to be accused has not broken the law, by 100% probability?

I am not a lawyer, and you are not either, I appreciate that. If you can't come up with a situation, illustratively hypothetical or real, then fine, I shan't press the point. But if you can come up and show me one, I would be very interested to read about it.

Remember, the crux is that the evidence as presented by the plaintiff must show an already committed action by the defendant, which action forms the basis for the case, and which action, as described by the plaintiff himself, did not contravene any of the rules and laws of the criminal code, and the trial is a criminal trial.

Please show us, by example; hypothetical or otherwise.
 RandomScause
Joined: 8/16/2011
Msg: 77
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/9/2011 5:16:21 PM
I don't think we should be saying things that are to impress others, when deciding a purely intellectually decidable debate. We should stick to facts and logic. Stating background and accumulated expertise, may be of service to the debate in other cases, but in this debate I think that sort of tools of argument can serve no useful purpose.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 78
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Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/9/2011 6:35:43 PM
If I were the OP:

If I don't see any proof of my sleeping nude pictures, I won't make a big deal with it.

But if I get my hand on the picture as evidence , I'll nail his stupid azz in court...
 AintNoDeal
Joined: 2/3/2010
Msg: 79
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/9/2011 7:16:02 PM
= For those who missed the post, the OP has stated and re-iterated that she did indeed see the photos as displayed in the camera's memory and asked immediately for the photos to be deleted, whereupon the S.O.B. (my emphasis) refused to do so. =

She didn't wake up a week later, and try to re-envision the night, she made it clear those pics were unauthorized.
 pasmal
Joined: 2/24/2010
Msg: 80
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/11/2011 10:00:20 PM
Tried to skim thread. I hope you made a police complaint, dating the incident. You might need it for a restraining order, as this creep has a screw loose.
I'd assume you broke up.
The lawyer letter or a certified letter by you detailing the violation, including the dates and situation would be good, should he harass you or whatever.
You would have to sue him should he continue to violate your privacy.
Maybe that threat will make him crawl back in his hole.
Ignore anybody telling you to get over it without doing anything.
When people violate you, you don't just try to feel ok about it, you do something.
 Rhychus
Joined: 7/23/2009
Msg: 81
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Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/13/2011 6:04:15 AM
I'm curious... your post seems to say that there was time between when the photos were taken and when you broke up with him. How long a time?

At any rate you should file a complaint with the police and send a letter to the accused from your lawyer threatening legal action. If nothing else you begin a paper trail. If he repeats such behavior with others then their complaints will have exponential strength against him.
 CraftyPeaches
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 82
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/18/2011 12:57:28 PM
Sometimes it's a mystery as to why a person is single, while others make it painfully obvious. I think we know into which category your guy falls. He's a creep, plain and simple. The only circumstance that I can think of where taking pics of you sleeping naked would be okay, is if you had discussed it ahead of time and gave him the go-ahead. Clearly that was not the case.

Write him off and steel yourself for the day the pics surface. It very likely will happen and all you can do is explain that your trust was betrayed.

Good luck, hun.
 cubangent
Joined: 6/5/2010
Msg: 83
Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/18/2011 2:17:58 PM
it is against the law what he did, so you write him a return receipt letter and an email, so u keep record, and if pics ever appear anywhere, u can take him to court and he will have the ride of his life, it is illegal period so he better delete them lucky ur not my sister, he is a coward and a punk..
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 84
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Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/18/2011 2:49:56 PM
Its hard to really form an opinion on this without more information

Could you ask him to email them to me so I can make a decision about my views about this so I can then post?

 Cynderella
Joined: 3/8/2007
Msg: 85
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Deep sleep nude photo shoot
Posted: 9/18/2011 2:55:14 PM
Ouch...I would be a little upset as well.
I think this is one you chalk up to "Outta my Control"
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