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 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 28
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10 years ago Sunday....Page 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Stonecastle, you obviously havent looked at the criticisms properly or the evidence to support inquiry

Just on the collapse issue the steeel used could withstand twice the tempetatures present, plus only a tiny fraction of the buildings were on fire

So at best it would only explain the top half falling as it did, but once the rubble hit undamaged portions of the structure it would have collapsed far differently

I did infact watch those videos and several others but their no more compelling than the official stance and are infact just based on the official stance and dont take into account the (literally) thousands of structural engineers and professors who dispute that its even possible for a building to fall in that manner naturally no matter what damage it has.

Infact around 40 planes of that size have hit skyscrapers of varying sizes over the years, some of which have been completely engulfed in flames and even burnt for more than an entire day. Yet absolutely no other building, not one has EVER collapsed as a result and several were even refitted and continue to be used today despite far more aggressive fires than the ones in the twin towers

Those two are the ONLY two to have ever fallen, but were quite unscathed compared to many other similar disasters

The third WTC building that fell was also barely damaged and was a shorter much wider building but that one too also feel completely evenly and at near freefall velocity which is scientifically impossible. Not unlikely, just outright impossible
 Forrest Grump
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 29
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/10/2011 10:29:15 AM
I was at work when a friend phoned me. I rushed home to watch the TV.

I never was allowed to drive the hearse after this incident.

Forum rules don’t allow threads on 9/11. They apparently cause all the conspiracy theorists to come out. (Not that that would happen on the UK Forum!!)

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts5319495.aspx



 stonecastle
Joined: 2/14/2007
Msg: 31
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/10/2011 10:42:29 AM

Just on the collapse issue the steeel used could withstand twice the tempetatures present, plus only a tiny fraction of the buildings were on fire. So at best it would only explain the top half falling as it did, but once the rubble hit undamaged portions of the structure it would have collapsed far differently. I did infact watch those videos and several others but their no more compelling than the official stance and are infact just based on the official stance and dont take into account the (literally) thousands of structural engineers and professors who dispute that its even possible for a building to fall in that manner naturally no matter what damage it has. Infact around 40 planes of that size have hit skyscrapers of varying sizes over the years, some of which have been completely engulfed in flames and even burnt for more than an entire day. Yet absolutely no other building, not one has EVER collapsed as a result and several were even refitted and continue to be used today despite far more aggressive fires than the ones in the twin towers
All the 9/11 conspiracy theories have now been thoroughly debunked by several sources, such as Popular Mechanic's book "debunking the myths". The twin towers of the world trade centre were 110 stories tall, they were made of steel girders covered with fire proofing, a lot of which was knocked of when the planes hit them. They did not contain a reinforced steel concrete core like most other steel skyscrapers. Also no other skyscraper in the entire world has ever been hit by a boeing 757 - one of the largest airliners ever to fly. It was two of these planes which hit the world trade centre towers.
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 39
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/11/2011 9:36:53 AM
I've noticed a lot of reference to unborn babies or young babies dying in the attacks and my first point is although we are both genetically and socially disposed to react differently to an infant why are they any more or less significant than an actual adult that died?

But if we accept that what happened was as described for a moment, that terrorists did it and killed those people that was hardly a "first strike"

In gaza thousands of babies, children and adults have died year after year as a result of jewish practices in the area. On a daily basis non jews that live in Israel are refused urgent medical treatment and die as a result

In Iraq US/UK instigated UN backed embargos denied basic food and medical supplies to the entire country to try and force them into rising up against sadam which is estimated to have killed hundreds of thousands of babies and children and an estimated 3 million lives in total in the years between the two invasions by the denial of basic foods and medicines

That 3 MILLION deaths compared to 3,000 in an act of retalliation for that 3 million innocent deaths

And yet we have all this fuss about 3,000 people and 3 million deaths gets no memorial and no recognition and people think that is noble in some way?

if you believe the official version of events that led to 9/11 then the people to blame for US citizens dying is the US government for their foreign policy and interference in countries they had no business being in and to have any elected or appointed US official present at any memorial service is an insult to the people who lost their lives and their families
 xxmistyxx
Joined: 6/18/2009
Msg: 40
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10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/11/2011 9:57:30 AM

In Iraq US/UK instigated UN backed embargos denied basic food and medical supplies to the entire country to try and force them into rising up against sadam which is estimated to have killed hundreds of thousands of babies and children and an estimated 3 million lives in total in the years between the two invasions by the denial of basic foods and medicines


And Sadam did not steal millions from and deprive his people of food and medical supplies...? He was of course a pillar of society .. Yeah sure he was ! He never killed innocent people in their millions ?

This thread was supposed to be about remembering those that died on 9/11 2001 ..

I will always remember that day with horror and disbelief ..

R.I.P all those that died that day!
 xxmistyxx
Joined: 6/18/2009
Msg: 42
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10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/11/2011 12:06:34 PM

I wonder if the 10th anniversary of the Boxing Day Tsunami (which killed over 200,000 people and left countless more homeless) will attract such media attention. Or will people be too hungover or thinking about the sales?


Tsunami was an act of nature... a natural disaster.... 9/11 was murder. by terroists..

I do not remember a disaster appeal for 9/11 but sure do remember millions being raised ( rightly so ) to help those rebuild areas and lives where the tsunami hit...

If there is an anniversary event I will watch that like I did today but I do not need to be told to remember because I will remember..

Today was and is about 9/11
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 46
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/11/2011 5:55:05 PM
That was actually quite funny, I didnt see that till the next day when someone posted it on youtube

But it does kind of put the whole fiasco into perspective possibly more than many other things infact

It should also be noted that the "surprise" attack was pre empted by US home office officials phoning round several governments telling them to warn staff not to turn up for work the next day which the German premier actually reported during a UN discussion on the occurence


As for whether Sadam was good or bad, how would we know?

We were being primed to support a war, soanything claimed about what he may or may not have done has to be taken with a pinch of salt

Even the claims by US and UK governments that he wasnt abiding by the requirements of UN weapons inspectors was completely false and in the 5 years before the invasion weapons inspectors provided reports stating he was being completely 100% compliant on a three monthly basis

But its a bit laughable to claim sadam was denying his population food and medicine when none was actually allowed into the country by us for him to deny in the first place

So we ARE complicit in those 3 million plus deaths , and its that (if you believe the official version) that caused the attack on the twin towers in the firstplace amongst other things

Even ignoring those deaths, the UN invasion has caused hundreds of thousands (officially) of deaths as collateral damage since being in Iraq and afghanistan. But chances are that also runs into the millions by now too.

And we are having a special day over a measly 3000 people who were killed by people who have lost millions of family members to US/UK forces?

You cant stomp around the globe killing millions of innocent people in hundreds of soveriegn states and then complain when somebody retalliates, you just cant its totally ridiculous

And even if apathy and ignorance means you werent aware of what it might have been a retalliation for to begin with, once you do theres no excuse for dismissing far FAR higher deaths of innocent non combatants by your (and our) governments actions

As for "act of nature" OMG, that really takes the biscuit

So 3000 people die and its a big deal because someone actually caused it, but hundreds of thousands dying is what? It sucks a bit but isnt a big deal because it was a natural disaster?

A death is a death, it doesnt matter how it happens and the cause doesnt make one life worth any more or less than another when youre talking about an innocent casualty

And 3000 deaths in the grand scheme of things and the death counts notched by the US itself in the last 100 years is such a miniscule and insignificant number its surreal to see the self absorbed pontificating over what a big deal its supposed to be seen as

The US alone is probably directly responsible for around 30 million documented deaths over the last 100 years and probably as high as 100 million when dictators they put in place, funded and worked with are taken into account as well as civil wars they directly caused, financed and maintained for their own profits via arms sales

This really is like Satan criticising someone for kicking a puppy when you compare the acrued death counts

Today for me isnt, or shouldnt be about those 3000 specifically, but should be a day where people reflect not simply on the deaths, but on the reasons the deaths happened in the first place with a hope that pressure from all those appalled by what happened 10 years ago will stop the same processes re occuring and leading to a future retalliation on a larger bio chem or nuclear scale

That is a far better focus for this anniversary than blinkered, narrow minded, self absorbed pontificating
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 48
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/13/2011 5:05:23 AM
Yup, its amazing to see people waving from windows right up until the collapse in a building with such a hot fire raging it could meld steel but not human flesh despite any source of air both feeding and drawing fire towards it in such situations

What I would give to know what suncream they were wearing that day.......
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 51
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/13/2011 11:43:13 AM
I cant really comment on the specifics of the JFK thing, but the one fact that is at the very least "interesting" about assassinated US presidents is that every single one of them has between a week to a month of their death publicly vowed to remove private banking influences from US government and limit their power going right back to Abe Lincoln who gave a long speech on why banks and financial institutions having power in government was a situation that needed to be reversed

Perhaps just a very big coincidence, perhaps not. But interesting at the very least
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 53
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10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/14/2011 4:39:56 AM
Re the pentagon especially theres lots of stinky bits

Firstly the two engings would have caused the most damage, but theres only one hole as the fuselage is lacking in wieght and rigidy compared to the solid metal engines which make up a huge percentage of the planes weight overall

Dozens of MOD staff (military personnel) distinctly mention the smell of cordite when exiting the building

Theres some quite extensive footage of Rumsvelt helping stretcher patients away from the impact minutes after it happened with no plane wreckage, luggage or bodies scattered over the lawn (super speedy clean up that one)

Because of the flight manoevres which involved a steeady smooth banked curve whilst also dropping several thousand feet at the same time an examination by over a 1000 US pilots and seasoned pilots of that plane trying to recreate it without flight tower support or navigational aids came to the conclusion that it was almost impossible to believe somebody who could barely fly a single engine cessna a couple of months earlier could have accomplished the manoevre

Several eye witness accounts from pentagon personnel exiting the building via the actual hole itself said they couldnt see ANYTHING to suggest a plane had crashed but none were included in the investigative report or were even asked to give evidence


It should also be noted that the actual place the "plane" hit just happened to be where the servers for MOD accounts were stored and all the information needed to investigate the 70 billion dollors of MOD funding that had simply "vanished" which was announced on the previous day in congress was lost ( a story that got barely any media time due to what happened on the 11th)

The absolute ONLY back up copy of that data (allegedly) was stored in WTC7, the almost undamaged building that was reported collapsing minutes before it actually did

Which left the government unable to have an enquiry into where the missing 70 billion dollars went

WTC7 collapsing also (allegedly) ended the investigations into Enron and the 80 billion dollar US power company fraud to name two of many as it was claimed only one copy of that data existed

But even fairly small companies have multiple offsite backups of all important billing and customer data usually done on a daily basis, its a pretty standard practise
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 54
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/14/2011 4:56:27 AM
Does it explain why the engines didnt cause two much larger additional holes to the reinforced bomb proof structure though?

Engines are pretty huge, and if they didnt dissapear into the building then a chunk of metal as big as a house would have been quite noticeable really
 xxmistyxx
Joined: 6/18/2009
Msg: 57
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/14/2011 7:54:03 AM

So while I feel sympathy over 9/11, I really don't feel the need to do a big song and dance over it. I think what we are remembering is not the lives lost, but rather the fashion in which they died - two massive jets flying into a skyscraper is certainly a strange site
hope you don't think I'm evil for this post :)


People are entitled to express their opinions but to assume what other posters are remembering is WRONG! What a choice they had burn to death, jump, or wait for building to collapse and die being crushed by concrete... Thousands ARE left with the aftermath.. People of America, the families of 67 uk citizens inc luding 2 who were working as firefighters in new York and families from 90 nations are reminded every minute of every day.....

If I wish to remember joe bloggs who died from alcholism or people who died from 9/11 .. I WILL! I do not tell anyone they must do the same ..EACH to their OWN!!!

If people are not happy with their governments and their policies.. instead of sitting and doing nothing .. do something..Nothing stopping anyone from entering politics..
 andy1961
Joined: 6/15/2006
Msg: 58
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/14/2011 11:51:06 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'll tell you what Mr Zeegary, you're the Google King on here, so google the link below. It's one of many, and it does show parts of the aircraft.

whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html - 312k

If American Airlines, Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, then where did it go? And what happened to the 64 people, including the hijackers, who died that day? Did these named people - mourned by their relatives - not exist at all?

I say truthfully, that I have a sister who lived and worked in Washington - very close to the Pentagon - at the time. Both her and her husband witnessed that aircraft - American Airlines 77 - flying into the side of the building.

I can assure you they're not lying.

All this conspiracy stuff is complete nonsense, spewed by people who've nothing better to do with their time.

 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 59
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 9/15/2011 7:37:26 AM
One of the most damning "facts" of 9/11 is the phonecalls made from the one that crashed in a field, some of which lasted over 20 minutes

First of all there were NO cell repeaters on any commercial airliners in the US till 2003 so all calls could only have been made via ground based towers

For the majority of the calls the plane was simply to high under ANY circumstances for the calls to have happened, but even accepting it might have been some fluke quirk of conditions the plane flew through 4 different cell tower areas and when passing from one to the next all calls would end and would have to be redialed

But despite that several pasengers somehow managed calls lasting between 15 and I think 28 minutes despite the longest consecutive call during that time frame being no more than 6 minutes based on air speed, and even that ignores the fact it was far too high for phones to have connected to a ground based cell tower



the list of inconsistencies is practically endless, and some "may" even have viable, believable explainations

but the problem is that the US government consistenty refuses to give any explainations for any of it even when petitioned and lobbied by the relatives of those who died


For me though, the main aspect of this, and one that doesnt seem to be mentioned very often is the timing coinciding with the announcement of the missing money from the MOD funds and the fact that the attacks ever so conveniently removed all of the records that could have explained where the money went not just from one location, but from both that had copies

Thats one coincidence too far
 stonecastle
Joined: 2/14/2007
Msg: 60
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/3/2011 4:15:22 AM
It is all explained here http://www.debunking911.com a great site which thoroughly debunks the 9/11 conpiracy theorists claims.

For example: "no plane hit the Pentagon because no plane wreckage was found there".
Wrong! 130 people witnessed a plane crashing into the Pentagon and plenty of plane wreckage from recovered from the area of the crash site.
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 62
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/3/2011 12:03:54 PM
Its funny how the ONLY eye witnesses that ever get to make it to the public enquiries are the ones whos testimony totally supports the official line

In Tower 1 there were dozens of witnesses in the lower floor and sub basement who were shook by explostions before the plane had hit some of which were injured by the blast and all made statements

At the pentagon, theres plenty of employees who have given statements about smelling cordite and one classic one who actually left the building via the hole from the impact without seeing any plane debris and didnt know it was supposed to be a plane that hit the building till later on

The phonecalls as I already mentioned arent even just for discussion, but couldnt scientifically have happened till a few years later when the first ever cell repeater was installed on a US commercial airliner

The list is very long, but the way the buildings fell is still the biggest stench with this overall, Especially the building with the FBI offices in it and the fact that 911 stopped a LOT of politicians and top brass military personnel from quite probably having to face criminal charges over the missing 40 billion dollars that had been announced the day before as the attack "allegedly" destroyed ALL data pertaining to it

How convenient eh
 stonecastle
Joined: 2/14/2007
Msg: 63
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/4/2011 4:24:47 AM

Its funny how the ONLY eye witnesses that ever get to make it to the public enquiries are the ones whos testimony totally supports the official line

In Tower 1 there were dozens of witnesses in the lower floor and sub basement who were shook by explostions before the plane had hit some of which were injured by the blast and all made statements

At the pentagon, theres plenty of employees who have given statements about smelling cordite and one classic one who actually left the building via the hole from the impact without seeing any plane debris and didnt know it was supposed to be a plane that hit the building till later on

The phonecalls as I already mentioned arent even just for discussion, but couldnt scientifically have happened till a few years later when the first ever cell repeater was installed on a US commercial airliner

The list is very long, but the way the buildings fell is still the biggest stench with this overall, Especially the building with the FBI offices in it and the fact that 911 stopped a LOT of politicians and top brass military personnel from quite probably having to face criminal charges over the missing 40 billion dollars that had been announced the day before as the attack "allegedly" destroyed ALL data pertaining to it.

All of which is totally debunked on this website : http://www.debunking911.com

I don't know why many people just cannot accept that muslim terrorists carried out those attacks! They successfully bombed the World Trade Centre back in 1993! See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing
 andy1961
Joined: 6/15/2006
Msg: 64
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/4/2011 6:37:52 AM

In Tower 1 there were dozens of witnesses in the lower floor and sub basement who were shook by explostions before the plane had hit some of which were injured by the blast and all made statements


Absolute nonsense!

Do you just write stuff for the sake of it?
 andy1961
Joined: 6/15/2006
Msg: 66
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/4/2011 6:57:06 AM

I've asked for their location on that morning, yet still await it. I'm particularly looking forward to learning why her husband was at her work that particular morning


They were in their car - don't know the exact location, but it was close enough to see a large passenger aircraft fly into the side of the Pentagon.

Her husband was driving her to work.

Where did I say in my post she was actually at work and that her husband was with her? As usual you are jumping to conclusions instead of reading posts properly.
 andy1961
Joined: 6/15/2006
Msg: 68
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/4/2011 7:19:25 AM

Apparantly to all the witnesses that were questioned no one saw a plane fly into the side of the building,, according to some of the firemen they said it was bombs that were planted in the building that caused it to blow up as they found eveidence of bombs ,,,


It didn't fly into the building. Okay, so where did American Airlines Flight 77 go then?

Who knows - maybe it's on the fVcking moon.

 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 70
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/4/2011 8:52:21 AM
Both the UK, US and several other air forces have been using remote guidance systems for flying transport planes into combat zones since the late 90s so its hardly "science fiction"

And some modern jet liners have the ability for ground crew to fly the plane from the ground too in the case of****it malfunction or flight crew incapacity

So for all we know the planes could have had nobody onboard but pilots and passengers but be being controlled from elsewhere

Had the flight recorders not ALL magically vanished or not been intact (a very unique occurence in plane crashes btw) then we would actually know

Hell, I dare say if a pilots family was threatened a lot of them would actually willingly have done it to ensure their wife and kids werent harmed

So theres three possibilities that are actually far more credible than a learner pilot who couldnt even fly a single engine cessna being able to expertly fly a very precise flight path on a very difficult to control passenger jet (whilst also miraculously still being alive afterwards too)
 andy1961
Joined: 6/15/2006
Msg: 72
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/4/2011 9:00:57 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Zeegary will be back shortly to tell us that Blair, Brown and Prescot flew it remotely into the Pentagon.

(After all, he blames the last Labour goverment for everything else)
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 73
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/4/2011 9:11:01 AM
Actually, the absolute MOST likely culprits for 9/11 if it was a staged fake attack would actually be the Zionist jews or Mossad which is actually quite surprising that they dont even seem to feature on the list of possible culprits

But a very large amount of people who had huge financial windfalls as a result of 9/11 are infact jewish, as too if I recall is the building owner too

Because anything that hieghtens interest and military action in the middle east both stregnthens Israels position and detracts attention from their illegal expansion programs into palestinian territory

But you'd kind have expected them to be a very likely suspect and yet barely a hint of a whisper of a rumour of a theory



The fact that bit of the pentagon was under construction isnt really the main fact though

its that its the bit where the DOD servers holding their financial information were located

If you google it the day before 9/11 the Rumsvelt announced to the senate that the DOD had "lost" I think 40 or 70 billion dollars, didnt have a clue what they had done with it, couldnt show what they had spent it on it was just "gone"

Some very high up heads "would" have rolled over that many of which were in the military and potentially the vice president too. But by pure absolute "coincidence" an attack carried out with precise military precision just happened to destroy ALL the data which would have shown where that money had gone

How lucky

It also managed to destroy all the financial and legal records for the Exon class action, the 70billion dollar power company fraud and many other ongoing cases totalling well over 2 trillion dollars worth of impending legal actions against large multinationals when the third (and barely damaged) building fell at the WTC

Meaning none of those cases could continue

WOW, is that just the biggest and luckiest coincidence in the world?

VVV well its no more nonsensical that claiming a bunch of barely educated untrained cave dwelling camel jockeys with a few hours of playing on flight sims could have done it really lol
 andy1961
Joined: 6/15/2006
Msg: 74
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/4/2011 9:14:31 AM

Actually, the absolute MOST likely culprits for 9/11 if it was a staged fake attack would actually be the Zionist jews or Mossad which is actually quite surprising that they dont even seem to feature on the list of possible culprits

But a very large amount of people who had huge financial windfalls as a result of 9/11 are infact jewish, as too if I recall is the building owner too

Because anything that hieghtens interest and military action in the middle east both stregnthens Israels position and detracts attention from their illegal expansion programs into palestinian territory

But you'd kind have expected them to be a very likely suspect and yet barely a hint of a whisper of a rumour of a theory


You really do talk absolute nonsense!
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 76
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History
10 years ago Sunday....
Posted: 10/4/2011 2:11:39 PM

so where did that embankment come from, and where did it go to?



Maybe it wasnt an embankment at all, but one of those mysterious and elusive grassy knowles .......(cue xfiles theme tune)
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