Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Occupy Wall Street      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 326
Occupy Wall StreetPage 14 of 53    (13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53)
This thread is really a snapshot of the US (and world) as a whole.

Most of the world, on an individual level, as can be expected by human nature, is jealous and will never miss the opportunity to covet -- and take, now by law-- what they do not have. They somehow think that wealth is finite, that those who have accumulated wealth have done so at their and the country's expense, and that people who cannot find employment or riches outside of politics, are going to set the course right. These people are always disappointed in the end, because of human nature. The ruling political elite, which is what the beggar-thy-neighbor crowd is willing to entrust with their earnings and very existence, are the same grubby, greedy creatures they are: up from the swamp and out to get what's they believe they should have, everybody else be damned. Tax the rich! Tax the rich until there are no more rich! That is not going to make the lives of the envious any better, because they will not receive a cent of it. Rather, the ruling political elite will squander it away on themselves.

The other part of the world believes that wealth is not finite, that it can be made by honest production and work and investment, and that taking from their neighbor will not help them.

The US at one time had a greater population that believed the latter. There has always been corruption in the system, and it is not the wealthy that cause it. It is human nature. Change the system from capitalist to socialist, corruption. Change it back from socialist to capitalist, corruption. However, in a capitalist system that functions in a representative democracy vs a socialist command and control economy, there is a better chance that those who represent the worst of human nature can be voted out. But when the political elite are controlling the purse strings and decide -- ala Solyndra-- who gets what, than lawful opposition is much harder.

The Occupiers have half the story right, and are going about it the wrong way, led on behind the scenes by those who believe they should be the elite and in control.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 327
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 7:02:40 AM

What began as the gathering of just a few US Marines has now become a major organized movement to get Marines and military personnell of all branches to Occupy America nationwide. You can thank Marine Sgt. Shamar Thomas for that. His actions last week have inspired service men and women across the country to take a stand for the American people and join the Occupy protests.


http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/10/22/semper-fi-occupy-marines-bringing-reinforcements-to-occupy-the-nation/
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 328
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 7:55:04 AM

i see now, how stupid of me. its CORPORATE AMERICA thats the problem. the same CORPORATE AMERICA that won world war 1 and 2 , korea, would have won vietnam were it not for the idiots, and every other conflict since then.

'Corporate America' saved the world? pfft.
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 329
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 8:19:37 AM

if i remember the rules right, what are canadians doing commenting about ANYTHING in america?

What on earth are you talking about? What 'rules'?


do i get involved in canada, a second world country? not!

do i care what happens in a country thats one of the biggest in the world and has a population of that of 1700's america? that has little to contribute to the world other than its vast natural resources? it certainly doesnt develop any new drugs, medical breakthroughs, or advances in any other area of life besides energy.

lets give it credit for maple syrup, great hockey, great skiing, but after that? who gives a flip and why are canadians acting like they know ANYTHING here when they dont know SQUAT?

This part of your post reads like an advertisement for the necessity of improving public education.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 330
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 8:28:25 AM
What on earth are you talking about? What 'rules'?


He's just mad that OWS started with a Canadian organization...Adbusters. He's still living with the notion that all original thought and ideas, good or bad, must have their genesis in the good ole US of A.


it certainly doesnt develop any new drugs, medical breakthroughs


Oh, what the heck. Here's some free education to boot....

http://www.canadianmedicinenews.com/2007/11/canadas-greatest-medical-research.html
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 331
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 9:36:00 AM


if i remember the rules right, what are canadians doing commenting about ANYTHING in america?

do i get involved in canada, a second world country? not!

do i care what happens in a country thats one of the biggest in the world and has a population of that of 1700's america? that has little to contribute to the world other than its vast natural resources? it certainly doesnt develop any new drugs, medical breakthroughs, or advances in any other area of life besides energy.

lets give it credit for maple syrup, great hockey, great skiing, but after that? who gives a flip and why are canadians acting like they know ANYTHING here when they dont know SQUAT?


If you are a product of the American education system, I can see why you are pissed off with them.

Just a guess here, but I think he's referring to the rule that only residents of specific countries are supposed to post in their county's forum on POF. I don't think he gets the concept of "Global Forums" at all.

Not all of us are so utterly ignorant of what Canada does and has to offer, either. He probably missed all that because of sick days back in school...

I also don't think he actually understands where First World, Second World, and Third World came from, or that the US seems to be slowly (or not so slowly) sliding into a mishmash of First and Third World combined, or what it will mean for the US when the yen or the Euro dominates world finances instead of the US dollar.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 332
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 10:28:00 AM

ok ms k, why dont you edumucate me?

I think at this point it's too late for you. You'll believe whatever you want no matter what anyone else says. In fact, you're probably one of those who wouldn't believe anything contrary to your opinions even if Jesus Himself told you otherwise.

As for the commies, do you remember Joe McCarthy and HUAC? I do, vividly. Almost anything would be an improvement. I do know McCarthy didn't actually have much - if anything - to do with HUAC, but they were used synonymously at the time and McCarthyism was used more often than HUAC by most of the people I knew. And blacklisting was prevalent to the point where people were afraid to talk to their neighbors, beyond the most commonplace exchanges.

But here's a link regarding Canada and OWS:
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/canada/111016/occupy-wall-street-returns-canada
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 333
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 11:11:06 AM
Don't feed the trolls, folks. There is actual discussion to be had.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 334
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 11:28:02 AM
Specifically, multinational corporations — including Cisco, Pfizer and Qualcomm — want a temporary “tax holiday” that would allow them to bring foreign-held earnings back to the United States at a vastly reduced tax rate.


Would that satisfy everyone?

It meets SOME of the OW goals...no? (important 'base problem' ones too)

But the National Bureau of Economic Research, the Congressional Research Service, and private researchers concluded that the last tax holiday, enacted in 2004, largely failed to spur investment or job growth. Companies spent most of the repatriated $300 billion on dividends and stock buybacks, enriching executives and shareholders.


Those companies should be fined with a larger than competetive tax rate..no? Their execs should be jailed or fraud/grand larceny for SURE. (Use grand larceny; it hurts more)

If they wish to sulk, and take it out on employees; their days as an American or N.A. Corporation are numbered. Employees could even quit and goto those who are mentioned in the first paragraph., and their ilk.

These days, corporations are flush with $2 trillion in cash that is not being used for hiring


Only some of them. Some are just DYYYYING to spend spend spend and hire leagues of new people. Yet; they are more interested in adding to their numbers....through aquisition. (Taking down or competing against another 'corporate person')

The Senate panel said 7 of 19 companies that participated in the first tax holiday repatriated between 90 percent and 100 percent of their profits from offshore tax havens, like Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Panama and Ireland. The subcommittee also found that corporations that repatriated large sums under the first holiday have since built up their offshore funds at a greater rate than before.


Is that a recipe for the SUCCESS the US has found in past....or the FAILURES?

I'm not an economist; but it does seem like a method of attaining riches.

You NEED that money at home now....no?

WHO'S in the bank system knowledge, say in the Dominican, Costa Rica, Argentina or the like?

You would know better than I would. ;)

Similarly, the bipartisan deficit reduction supercommittee, reportedly hamstrung in its quest for trillion-dollar budget cuts, might also try to use the short-run revenue gain from a tax holiday to mask the depth of spending cuts. Or Congressional Republicans may demand passage of a tax holiday in exchange for extending federal unemployment benefits, which expire at the end of the year.


See; that is where my lack of Wall Stret trainng betray me.

Less taxes equals a Governmmental.....revenue....gain?

Hu?

I like the fact that they want to use excess funds to build and re-open their employment centres and tide the people over until they do; THAT...I understand.

But...how does that work?

Maybe the richer corporations who want to SHOW their love for: employees, America ,and such, should bring that money back home, and open new job centres AND agree to higher taxes for the short term. In return; this would put them in line for the premium tax increases and infrastructire grants in future......AND perhaps give them credits towards uber costly green movement regulations. (could work?)

if i remember the rules right, what are canadians doing commenting about ANYTHING in america


-largest trading partner
-family and friends live there
-you're the closest country to ours
-our markets are entertwined

Frankly; like it or not (as many Cdns also do..or do not); we're almost family.

it certainly doesnt develop any new drugs, medical breakthroughs, or advances in any other area of life besides energy.


See; America keeps the attenton off of us!!

:)

One word: "Banting"

[I'll reserve and bite my tongue on any other "words"]

lets give it credit for maple syrup, great hockey, great skiing,


Ah yes; good times, good times.

if it started with canadiens, why arent they demonstrating in canada, and if they are demonstrating, demonstrating against WHAT, exactly?


The Toronto Maple Leafs new Jerseys. (stay out of it, it's getting nasty)


oh, i missed molson golden ale..........pretty good


Really?

Do we even get that up here in Canada!?

Try Moosehead! :)

Cheers.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 335
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 12:48:33 PM

how do you know the ows started with canadians? george soros told you? brother rachel? you suck up your news from two faced GE who promotes msnbc and then the opposite type of news on business cnbc, and then cuts back across the grain again to promote communism on nbc? the same GE that shipped all production overseas and paid their tax lawyer 43 million last year to find the loopholes so they paid NO usa tax? zero?

if it started with canadiens, why arent they demonstrating in canada, and if they are demonstrating, demonstrating against WHAT, exactly?
Communists eh? Good Lord do you actually know what communism is?

I will give you a tip, find a few citizens in your area that are from the former communist country and ask them do they think America is communist?

Well the next time I'm in the jungle in Canada running with a bone through my nose Im going to ask a cheetah why he or she thinks Africa is communist or is America communist I will be curious on what the answer will be.... Since according to you Canada is a second world country

Im going to give you another tip Slick, GOOGLE, or better yet assuming you have a passport and you're not a criminal, visit Canada and actually see for your self what Canada is all about, the technology, the medicines and things we have actually created.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 336
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 3:02:51 PM
Iceman...The bar in the US is moving so rapidly to the far right, that anything left of Reagan is a commie. Eisenhower, Goldwater, and Nixon would all be labeled commies in the current environment, given the litmus test of the moving bar.

While Kalle Lassen was among the first to just set a date to start to do something, the international response has been in the making for some time now. The Arab Spring had as much to do with lighting the global fuse as anything. When a fire is lit, many unsavory things are exposed in the shadows.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html


AS PROTESTS against financial power sweep the world this week, science may have confirmed the protesters' worst fears. An analysis of the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations has identified a relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy.

The study's assumptions have attracted some criticism, but complex systems analysts contacted by New Scientist say it is a unique effort to untangle control in the global economy. Pushing the analysis further, they say, could help to identify ways of making global capitalism more stable.

The idea that a few bankers control a large chunk of the global economy might not seem like news to New York's Occupy Wall Street movement and protesters elsewhere (see photo). But the study, by a trio of complex systems theorists at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, is the first to go beyond ideology to empirically identify such a network of power. It combines the mathematics long used to model natural systems with comprehensive corporate data to map ownership among the world's transnational corporations (TNCs).

"Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it's conspiracy theories or free-market," says James Glattfelder. "Our analysis is reality-based."

Previous studies have found that a few TNCs own large chunks of the world's economy, but they included only a limited number of companies and omitted indirect ownerships, so could not say how this affected the global economy - whether it made it more or less stable, for instance.

The Zurich team can. From Orbis 2007, a database listing 37 million companies and investors worldwide, they pulled out all 43,060 TNCs and the share ownerships linking them. Then they constructed a model of which companies controlled others through shareholding networks, coupled with each company's operating revenues, to map the structure of economic power.

The work, to be published in PLoS One, revealed a core of 1318 companies with interlocking ownerships (see image). Each of the 1318 had ties to two or more other companies, and on average they were connected to 20. What's more, although they represented 20 per cent of global operating revenues, the 1318 appeared to collectively own through their shares the majority of the world's large blue chip and manufacturing firms - the "real" economy - representing a further 60 per cent of global revenues.

When the team further untangled the web of ownership, it found much of it tracked back to a "super-entity" of 147 even more tightly knit companies - all of their ownership was held by other members of the super-entity - that controlled 40 per cent of the total wealth in the network. "In effect, less than 1 per cent of the companies were able to control 40 per cent of the entire network," says Glattfelder. Most were financial institutions. The top 20 included Barclays Bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co, and The Goldman Sachs Group.

John Driffill of the University of London, a macroeconomics expert, says the value of the analysis is not just to see if a small number of people controls the global economy, but rather its insights into economic stability.

Concentration of power is not good or bad in itself, says the Zurich team, but the core's tight interconnections could be. As the world learned in 2008, such networks are unstable. "If one [company] suffers distress," says Glattfelder, "this propagates."

"It's disconcerting to see how connected things really are," agrees George Sugihara of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla, California, a complex systems expert who has advised Deutsche Bank.

Yaneer Bar-Yam, head of the New England Complex Systems Institute (NECSI), warns that the analysis assumes ownership equates to control, which is not always true. Most company shares are held by fund managers who may or may not control what the companies they part-own actually do. The impact of this on the system's behaviour, he says, requires more analysis.

Crucially, by identifying the architecture of global economic power, the analysis could help make it more stable. By finding the vulnerable aspects of the system, economists can suggest measures to prevent future collapses spreading through the entire economy. Glattfelder says we may need global anti-trust rules, which now exist only at national level, to limit over-connection among TNCs. Sugihara says the analysis suggests one possible solution: firms should be taxed for excess interconnectivity to discourage this risk.

One thing won't chime with some of the protesters' claims: the super-entity is unlikely to be the intentional result of a conspiracy to rule the world. "Such structures are common in nature," says Sugihara.

Newcomers to any network connect preferentially to highly connected members. TNCs buy shares in each other for business reasons, not for world domination. If connectedness clusters, so does wealth, says Dan Braha of NECSI: in similar models, money flows towards the most highly connected members. The Zurich study, says Sugihara, "is strong evidence that simple rules governing TNCs give rise spontaneously to highly connected groups". Or as Braha puts it: "The Occupy Wall Street claim that 1 per cent of people have most of the wealth reflects a logical phase of the self-organising economy."

So, the super-entity may not result from conspiracy. The real question, says the Zurich team, is whether it can exert concerted political power. Driffill feels 147 is too many to sustain collusion. Braha suspects they will compete in the market but act together on common interests. Resisting changes to the network structure may be one such common interest.

When this article was first posted, the comment in the final sentence of the paragraph beginning "Crucially, by identifying the architecture of global economic power…" was misattributed.


The top 50 of the 147 superconnected companies

1. Barclays plc
2. Capital Group Companies Inc
3. FMR Corporation
4. AXA
5. State Street Corporation
6. JP Morgan Chase & Co
7. Legal & General Group plc
8. Vanguard Group Inc
9. UBS AG
10. Merrill Lynch & Co Inc
11. Wellington Management Co LLP
12. Deutsche Bank AG
13. Franklin Resources Inc
14. Credit Suisse Group
15. Walton Enterprises LLC
16. Bank of New York Mellon Corp
17. Natixis
18. Goldman Sachs Group Inc
19. T Rowe Price Group Inc
20. Legg Mason Inc
21. Morgan Stanley
22. Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group Inc
23. Northern Trust Corporation
24. Société Générale
25. Bank of America Corporation
26. Lloyds TSB Group plc
27. Invesco plc
28. Allianz SE 29. TIAA
30. Old Mutual Public Limited Company
31. Aviva plc
32. Schroders plc
33. Dodge & Cox
34. Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc*
35. Sun Life Financial Inc
36. Standard Life plc
37. CNCE
38. Nomura Holdings Inc
39. The Depository Trust Company
40. Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance
41. ING Groep NV
42. Brandes Investment Partners LP
43. Unicredito Italiano SPA
44. Deposit Insurance Corporation of Japan
45. Vereniging Aegon
46. BNP Paribas
47. Affiliated Managers Group Inc
48. Resona Holdings Inc
49. Capital Group International Inc
50. China Petrochemical Group Company

* Lehman still existed in the 2007 dataset used
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 337
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 3:03:54 PM
http://www.realnews24.com/the-corporation/

Amazing insight into the "Corporation as a person" legislation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not even an economist; and I saw it clear as day.

That piece is 100% correct.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 338
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 3:19:28 PM
Then I would suggest if the bar is moved so far that they think that is communism, I would say the education system failed them completely.

Nothing is more annoying then reading people living in North America ( Canada or the United States) born here, educated here has never lived in a country like Cuba, North Korea, the former Soviet Union, Hungary, the Former Yugoslavia and many others countries, and throw around words like " communism"

Find people that lived in those countries and escaped to find a better life in America, Canada , the UK etc they will educated you big time what life was like there under a communist regime.

People flock to America for the American Dream, they are not flocking to Cuba for the Cuban Dream, or the North Korean Dream or even the Russian Dream, you can forget about the Iraqi Dream.

You guys seem to be pissed at the big corporations, the big banks, but where did they get their power from?

I can post every regulation for every situation in the crises we face today
Subprime
Housing
Banking ( Wall street)
Corporations paying less taxes
Billionaires and Millionaires paying less taxes( tax rates not amount)
Housing bubble
stock bubble
why corporation are sitting with huge cash reserves on the balance sheets
and letting go the little guy ( worker)
Why some corporations are not paying taxes to the IRS
Hedge managers and their tax loop holes

You name it I can post every legislation and the reason why it happened.

But you guys want to blame the corporations and call them greedy bast ards , while a few are, most of taking advantage of the regulations the Feds set out, take a peek at some of the regulations and see if they make sense to you?

We don't need more regulations from the idiots in congress and law makers, we need more TRANSPARENCY and to plug up the loop holes, we need to regulations that limits lobbyist has friends in the congress and government legislative bodies , we need tougher rules for fraud, problem is nobody can say what or who is doing the fraud.

Guilani tried that in the 80's with the stock market fraud and manipulation cases, yeah it got him attention but guess what ? most of the perps WALKED in the end, it was good headlines for Rudy, got him the Mayor thing years later.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 339
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 3:54:02 PM

Nothing is more annoying then reading people living in North America ( Canada or the United States) born here, educated here has never lived in a country like Cuba, North Korea, the former Soviet Union, Hungary, the Former Yugoslavia and many others countries, and throw around words like " communism"

Many of my friends and acquaintances over the years have come from easter Europe, a variety of Third World countries, including East Berlin before the Wall came down. I remember when Castro was hailed as the savior of Cuba after Bautista. When I was still in grade school I listened to Radio Free Cuba, just to get some practice in understanding spoken Spanish. My first stepfather was addicted to the soldier of furtune type of magazines, and I read each and every one he got before I finished grade school - I think there was a time I knew more about the French Foreign Legion than some of the Legionaires did. After I moved to Alaska, I met quite a few Vietnamese immigrants who'd managed to escape - all of them very well educated, none of them able to practice their chosen careers after the war ended.

I grew up in one of the Civil War border states, where a hundred years later part of the state celebrated the federal Memorial Day and the other half celebrated Memorable Day a week later.

I take nothing for granted. I am grateful that I don't have to spend 3 or 4 hours standing in a line for the opportunity to buy a few groceries, only to find out when it's finally my turn, there's nothing left.

I take nothing about the US for granted. But I am also a realist, and I can see the changes sneaking up bit by bit. I figure my kids can handle themselves whatever happens, but I would certainly like to think the world my grandchild finds when he grows up is the best one possible, and not one that is in constant turmoil with increasing terrorist activity, or a country that is so divided in social class that there is no longer a middle class, just the haves and have nots.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 340
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 5:01:07 PM

you guys want to blame the corporations and call them greedy bast ards , while a few are, most of taking advantage of the regulations the Feds set out, take a peek at some of the regulations and see if they make sense to you?

While I see what you're saying, the issue I have is that you draw a distinct demarcation between corporate power and government power. There is no such demarcation; corporations and politicians are in a mutually beneficial relationship with eachother, and the loser is the citizenry.

When corporations were first chartered by the government, they had strict limits put on them. Ever since then, teams of corporate lawyers have been scheming ways to loosen those limits, and they have been very successful at it-- the results of which should be obvious today for anyone who is paying attention.

Now, government looks after the interests of big business more than anything else because corporations have skillfully made it so. It seems that only a Constitutional amendment can even begin to turn the tide.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 341
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 7:03:32 PM

It seems that only a Constitutional amendment can even begin to turn the tide.
Ive been saying that for soooooooo long, I practically say it in my sleep, If I sleep walk and talk its coming out of my mouth.

I agree with a lot of the things you say except that I would change corporations and politicians to SOME corporations and politicians are in a mutually beneficial relationship, hence the term crony capitalism
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 342
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 9:19:41 PM

~earthpuppy........what a shitty list!

where is apple? GE? a little favoritism perhaps, for obama's favorites, as usual?

ally bank?

which communists put this list together, leaving out their own specific donors?

Are you capable of reading comprehension? Are you completely unaware that many of these companies are based in other countries? Any and all of them are more than capable of swallowing Apple or GE without a hiccup. These are international companies, not ones limited to the US. I found the same link in the Australian edition of International Business Times. In fact, I posted the link a few pages back, but I guess I should have included the text, too...

Have you ever considered counseling for that tunnel vision in your brain?
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 343
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/24/2011 9:42:58 PM
I do agree with Iceman, the problem has been getting worse for years, the coupling of government and corporations, too much greed all around and any individuals that try and make a difference or suggest change are silenced pretty quickly.
In Canada we have been lucky that our financial system have made sound conservative investments, kept in check by government regulations and individual savings are protected by the government up to 100,000 dollars, so it can be done.
I'm not sure what can be done at this point, maybe voters need to band together and promote those individuals/independents that want financial reforms, remove tax loopholes, adapt policies the reward corporations/small business that hire locally and are completely transparent about their campaign contributors, start locally and move on up, cleaning house as the go, make politicians work for your vote.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 344
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 4:56:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2qqRFYv3ao

Dude in the video outlines my opinion of Occupy Wall Street protests very succinctly...
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 345
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 5:52:46 AM
Lint I just watched that video I was laughing so hard , HE IS 100% DEAD ON BALLS, I couldn't of said any better, Ive been saying that all along he just added some great points, got to love these protesters and their warped thinking, I guess the Protesters will keep certain corporations going, speaking of that time for a Latte at Starbucks, time to send some text's on my I PHONE.

Time to watch Sportscenter on my Flat screen TV
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 346
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 6:21:52 AM

Time to watch Sportscenter on my Flat screen TV
Do me a favour and pass the Orville Redenbacher popcorn please.

I'll be back in a bit with a Canadian Club Rye from Hiram Walker and Sons distillery and Coca~Cola Bottling Corporation's Coke™.

 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 347
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 6:30:08 AM

Do me a favour and pass the Orville Redenbacher popcorn please.
I shall Lint, after I microwave it in my new GE spacemaker Microwave, shall I bring the glasses I bought at Canadian Tire for the Canadian Club Rye, maybe I will barbecue some steaks I bought from the grocery store and transport them in my car which needs Gas that I have to BUY from a gas station.

EDIT for below

I don't watch FOX news, so im not sure what you are tying to say Flyguy?
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 348
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 6:48:42 AM
All you guys are proving is how much corporations are an undeniable fixture in our daily lives-- and yet you're trying to maintain that they don't have too much power and influence? More power than this country's founders ever intended? That they haven't drowned out the voices of the citizens (actual, real people)?

Cdn Iceman, just when I thought we were finding some common ground here, you go all-in with a wannabe Fox News pundit who is saying, "Hey, realize you can't beat 'em; you might as well join 'em!"

Edit:
^^^^ OK, then. Substitute "wannabe Fox News pundit" with "shmuck." It's only a small part of my response, wouldn't you say?
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 349
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 10:06:05 AM
From today's NY Times:

Big business has clearly decided that the economic crisis is too important to waste. While Washington debates how to create jobs and cut the budget deficit, major corporations — read major campaign contributors — are pushing Congress for an enormous tax cut on corporate profits. Lawmakers seem all too eager to grant their wish.

Specifically, multinational corporations — including Cisco, Pfizer and Qualcomm — want a temporary “tax holiday” that would allow them to bring foreign-held earnings back to the United States at a vastly reduced tax rate.

A bill in the House would tax repatriated earnings at 5.25 percent, a fraction of the usual rate of 35 percent; a bill in the Senate would cut the rate to 8.75 percent, or 5.25 percent for companies that added jobs.

The corporations say a tax holiday would help to create jobs, mainly by giving them money to hire and expand. But the National Bureau of Economic Research, the Congressional Research Service, and private researchers concluded that the last tax holiday, enacted in 2004, largely failed to spur investment or job growth. Companies spent most of the repatriated $300 billion on dividends and stock buybacks, enriching executives and shareholders.

These days, corporations are flush with $2 trillion in cash that is not being used for hiring. As long as the economy is weak and consumers aren’t spending, tax cuts will add to the cash pile, not create jobs. A tax holiday also would add to the deficit, in part because companies rush to bring money home, rather than repatriating the earnings over time at the usual rate. According to Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation, another tax holiday at 5.25 percent would increase the deficit by nearly $80 billion over 10 years; a rate of 10.5 percent would cost $42 billion.

A report by the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations leaves no doubt that tax holidays encourage tax avoidance — as companies use accounting maneuvers to shift profits offshore and then wait for the next tax holiday before bringing the money back.

The Senate panel said 7 of 19 companies that participated in the first tax holiday repatriated between 90 percent and 100 percent of their profits from offshore tax havens, like Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Panama and Ireland. The subcommittee also found that corporations that repatriated large sums under the first holiday have since built up their offshore funds at a greater rate than before.

Yet, in the warped politics of Washington, a second tax holiday is a distinct possibility. Senator Charles Schumer, a Democrat of New York, and other Democratic senators have floated the idea that a tax holiday could be used to establish an infrastructure bank. They are focused on the short-run revenue gain from a tax holiday and playing down the substantial revenue loss over time. Mr. Schumer says he would not support a rate as low as 5.25 percent, but even a higher rate would be a big revenue loser.

Similarly, the bipartisan deficit reduction supercommittee, reportedly hamstrung in its quest for trillion-dollar budget cuts, might also try to use the short-run revenue gain from a tax holiday to mask the depth of spending cuts. Or Congressional Republicans may demand passage of a tax holiday in exchange for extending federal unemployment benefits, which expire at the end of the year.

The White House has rightly opposed another “one-time” tax holiday, but politics are pulling in the other direction. Unless President Obama leads the fight, this wrongheaded policy is too likely to become the law of the land. The evidence is there. A corporate tax holiday won’t create more jobs. What it will do is raise the deficit.

Whether you think a tax holiday is a good idea or not, it's pretty clear why the Occupy movement is growing. The fact that Corporate America can get Congress to dance to its tune means that it has way too much influence.


The money they are referring to is not some secret funds tucked under the rug like many seem to think. In a global business model you have income from other places on the globe.

People like the dems would like nothing more than to have the ability to tax a company based on total income even if that money was earned outside of the US borders.

People like these movements do not understand the system in my opinion. you would be surprised how many people think they are entitled to have a great life just because they are American citizens.

I have said before in other threads that Obama is not the sharpest tool in the box. Men like him are motivational speakers. They are really great at getting people to hoot holla and agree but at the end of the day people like him require yall to do all the work for them.

Yall asked for change.... that is what a man like him was capable of giving you... change as in leftovers from a dollar after the bulk of it has been spent. Shoot i am not in politics but even i am smart enough to know that you do not piss off the segment of the population that is responsible for things like Jobs, employment numbers, or even something as simple as having enough raw materials. (which are all key parts to any economy)

It is double silly to do it during a motivational speech firing up the people by telling them that you would work hard at offering them those things.

I wish to put an image in your mind for a moment. Think about money or rather the movement of money around the globe. picture each dollar like a little bug and then sit back and watch those move around the globe. Like little swarms moving around all over. Wherever the highest concentration of them are is where the most multiplication of them is taking place.

Money really does work similar to that. So since that is the case then the job of the top person should be in figuring out how to call in those swarms. Calling them into your borders with the requirement that they will have a 40% loss rate upon entry is not very appealing considering they are breading just fine right where they are.

Everyone in the country benefits when even one more dollar is floating around within these borders. The more dollars there are floating around makes it easier to catch some for yourself.

As for the part that corporations should not be a part of politics...

Why shouldn't they? Most of the money comes from them. I look at a chart of who is taxed the most and by taxed i do not mean the people that get tax refunds since just because taxes are deducted from your paycheck does not mean that you actually pay taxes.. you get them back at the end of the year.

The brunt is shouldered by corporations and the upper middle class. What I noticed though is that the upper middle class are employed by the very same companies that are taxed as well.

That means when those companies shift their jobs out of these borders not only does the US lose the taxes from the reduction of business being done within its borders it also loses the income taxes lost from those upper middle class workers that either move out with the company or take a lower paying job which means they also pay less in taxes.

My thought is simple... It may sound real good to fire up a group of people and get them behind you but if after they have been fired up the only change you are able to offer is pocket change then it only takes a few years to see through the bullshyt.

Had Obama been a business man like our founding fathers were he would have understood this concept. There are 7 billion people on this planet and just 300 million of them are here in the US. That means 6.7 billion other potential employees, customers, and consumers are out there for those swarms of dollars to propagate at.

I love my country. I love it so much that it pains me to see when someone as blatantly ignorant as who is in charge now runs it into the ground.

The only jobs he can offer are in segments that he attempts to get the government to take over. That however does NOTHING to help call in those swarms of dollars floating around in the rest of the world. That is what we want as a nation. To be listed as a breeding ground for dollars to come and find their matches and multiply making more and more dollars.

Money really is like breeding animals, incests, plants or whatever. You plant the seeds nurture them, protect them while they grow, and then once grown you use them to seed in other spots to keep them multiplying.

Just my opinions and observations
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 350
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 10:20:34 AM

Why shouldn't they? Most of the money comes from them. I look at a chart of who is taxed the most and by taxed i do not mean the people that get tax refunds since just because taxes are deducted from your paycheck does not mean that you actually pay taxes.. you get them back at the end of the year.

That's fine in theory. The last chart I looked at showed a tax rate of 35% for corporations. Right... but Bank of America and Exxon (I think it was Exxon, wouldn't swear to it now) paid in actuality - nothing. Zero dollars. Zilch. Who actually did get paid? The CEOs and shareholders.

What good is a tax rate, when there are so many loopholes and exclusions that the tax rate is nothing but something to use in a political campaign?
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Occupy Wall Street