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 AUTHOR
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 376
Occupy Wall StreetPage 16 of 53    (13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53)
Steel, even a stopped clock, etc....Duke, tho he cannit help but rant his hateful screed throughout his paper, does make some coherent points.

If you didn't know it was Duke and omitted his Jew hating nonsense, the rest of his points stand up just fine. Sad, but true.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 377
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/25/2011 2:18:43 PM
"those disparities always existed."

No they didn't, you guys are always about the "olden days" being so much better. They didn't exist in the 50's, workers were paid better in terms of percentages. CEO's who did make the big bucks, paid 90% in taxes.

But let's not even go that far back, in the 80's there was still a kinda parity. It's only since "fair trade" agreements, and the WTO that we shipped entire industries to other countries.

Blah blah blah "does what it does", it can only do that when you whiners say "abolish the EPA" I guess you guys want a return to Love Canal where rivers catch fire for no reason. Or "limit the scope of Dodd Frank" so you guys enjoy paying 25% interest on credit cards? Or those pesky charges for using YOUR money when a bank sends you an ATM card so they can fire 500 tellers.

Why is it you people(gawd I could get banned for sure if I actually said what was in my head) can only name barney frank(no s, but with you it's to be expected) pelosi.

Why not name zippity do dah orange face from ohio, or that little twirp Cantor, who I'd give anything to catch on a dark street one night! How about those dual smucks shrub and darth vader(aka Chenny).

I'll never get you guys if I live to be 1,000. You keep sending these same azzhats back to washington no matter how many times they screw you over. They pass laws that enable their buddies to butt fuk you, block legislation that helps you and STILL you can't see it.

But hey, who am I to complain! I will continue to make mine, trading stocks, bonds and options. Everytime they game the system in my favor, I win, you lose!!
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 378
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/25/2011 2:34:27 PM
Show me....thanks for confirming what we thought.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 379
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/25/2011 2:57:08 PM
I always find it a bit pathetic how the right, the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps," the cut entitlements, the "corporations pay their due" crowd are so silent about corporate welfare. Of course, you all know it exists, you just don't want to admit how excessive it has become over the decades. Getting welfare is just another way they're like people-- except better.

http://www.corporations.org/welfare/
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 380
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 3:09:23 PM

"I have never turned my nose up at employment"

Well that might change if you lost your job, couldn't find an equivlenat new one, and had to work at Micky D's while paying off student loans. "Can I supersize that for you?" at $8 an hour!
You underestimate me... first of all, I have no debt of any kind so I wouldn't be paying any kind of a loan. Furthermore, the absolute only way I would lose my job would be if the company folded... and when the last company I worked for folded, I went from managing to bartending and auto detailing. I don't mind hard work or callouses on my hands and as I said, I don't see a job as beneath me.

"also believe that the men that "own" the company I work for deserve to get thelions share of the profits"

Where did I talk about a private company, these are owned by shareholders. The executives(with the exception of bill gates) have bupkis in terms of stock. The only thing they have are "stock options" and most are exercised and sold only when a profit exists.

The stock holders get crumbs as well. Only the CEO's and their buddies make the big bucks!
My bad... I should have referred to them as the Board of Directors consisting of President / CFO, COO, CEO and the CIO. The restructuring was done a few years ago but I don't often think of it as I have open access to each of the gentlemen in question.

Not for one second will I ever begrudge a penny they earn from the company... after all, they started it as a private company before it exploded into the current corporation that it is today. They also treat each and every employee as an individual... it's something I greatly admire about them...

But hey, who am I to complain! I will continue to make mine, trading stocks, bonds and options. Everytime they game the system in my favor, I win, you lose!!
Now I'm going to call bullshyte on this one... you wouldn't complain nearly so much about the system if you didn't feel you were getting screwed.

Oh, and the more you laugh, the more I see a man trying to hide that he's profoundly struck by the things that are said on the forums. I don't think you're laughing at all, I think you're almost purple with rage... careful, you gotta watch that blood pressure.

 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 381
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/25/2011 3:29:40 PM
Sorry Show me please, you don't know what you're talking about, Kind of tired of reading left wing conspiracy theories on corporations and CEO's blah blah blah.

I'm going to assume you work for a living? which means you work for a company whether its private or publicly owned, you work for someone, you as a employee I get that you feel like you're getting screwed by the corporation.

But you don't know what a CEO does? you think most of them are overpaid ass holes but do you understand why they get paid for what they get paid do you understand the role of the CEO?

Successful CEOs are indispensable to their companies, Most of them earns there rewards

How big an influence can one man have on the fortunes of the entire corporation? Consider the impact of Jack Welch on General Electric,and look at GE now? Before his tenure as CEO, the company was a bloated giant, floundering under its own weight. Splintered into dozens of distinct and inefficient business units, GE was scarcely making a profit. Welch turned it around. He streamlined and reorganized the company's operations and implemented a sound business strategy yielding more than $400 billion worth of shareholder wealth.

In business, success requires long-range thinking, CEOs must project a strategic game plan in terms not merely of a month or two, but of years and decades Can the average worker do that? Hell no.

In order to be successful in the long range, the CEO's strategy must encompass countless factors, He must devise a plan to grow the business in the face of competitors, not only from within the United States, but from any and every region of today's global economy. The CEO calls the plays for a team of tens (and sometimes hundreds) of thousands of workers. All of the actions of every employee and every aspect of the business must be coordinated and integrated to produce the cars, computers or CAT scanners that yield profits to the company. It is the CEO who is responsible for that integration.

To successfully steer a corporation across the span of years by integrating its strengths toward the goal of creating wealth requires from the CEO exceptional thought and judgment. Excellent CEOs are as rare as 20 game winning pitchers or A superstar NFL quarterback.

Given the effect a CEO can have on a company's success, I can understand why their compensation packages can be so high. One way employers reward excellence is through bonuses, For many CEOs, bonuses amount to a large portion of their earnings. Some CEOs are paid a token salary, but are rewarded with stock options , the CEO's pay package is calculated with an eye on the competition, Companies pay millions of dollars to a valuable CEO, one who they judge will produce wealth for the shareholders, in part so he or she will not be hired away by a competitor.

Can you say that for the average worker? unless that worker is valuable to the employer, this is not to diminish what the average worker does, every one is important, but those that can help a company profit gets rewarded vs those are employed to do a task set out by job description from their employer.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 382
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/25/2011 3:55:56 PM
Fly, you'll appriciate this:

Success is the national religion, and almost everyone is a believer. Americans love winners. But that's just the problem. These guys on Wall Street are not winning – they're cheating. And as much as we love the self-made success story, we hate the cheater that much more.

...

In a larger sense, the TBTF banks all have the implicit guarantee of the federal government, so investors know it's relatively safe to lend to them -- which means it's now cheaper for them to borrow money than it is for, say, a responsible regional bank that didn't jack its debt-to-equity levels above 35-1 before the crash and didn't dabble in toxic mortgages. In other words, the TBTF banks got better credit for being less responsible. Click on freecreditscore.com to see if you got the same deal.

...

Defenders of the banks like to talk a lot about how we shouldn't feel sorry for people who've been foreclosed upon, because it's their own fault for borrowing more than they can pay back, buying more house than they can afford, etc. And critics of OWS have assailed protesters for complaining about things like foreclosure by claiming these folks want “something for nothing.”

This is ironic because, as one of the Rolling Stone editors put it last week, “something for nothing is Wall Street’s official policy." In fact, getting bailed out for bad investment decisions has been de rigeur on Wall Street not just since 2008, but for decades.

...

When was the last time the government stepped into help you "avoid losses you might otherwise suffer?" But that's the reality we live in. When Joe Homeowner buys too much house, essentially betting that home prices would go up and losing when they drop, he's an irresponsible putz who shouldn’t whine about being put on the street.

...

The point being: if you miss a few home payments, you have a very high likelihood of colliding with an armed police officer in the near future. But if you defraud a pair of European banks out of a billion dollars -- that's a billion, with a b -- you will never be arrested, never see a policeman, never see the inside of a jail cell.

Your settlement will be worked out not with armed police, but with regulators in suits who used to work for your company or one like it. And you'll have, defending you, a former head of that regulator's agency. In the end, a fine will be paid to the government, but it won't come out of your pocket personally; it will be paid by your company's shareholders. And there will be no admission of criminal wrongdoing.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-street-isnt-winning-its-cheating-20111025
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 383
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/25/2011 4:36:25 PM
Blade, I don't defend most of the banks on wall street, hell no
The ones that took the bail out money, and then distribute it among the executives while diluting share prices is not what I call productive in my opinion.

I'm for the banks on Main street, that didn't take the bail out packages, the ones that did the right things and didn't screw tax payers.

By the way did you know the big banks on Wall street are starting to figure out ways around Basel III as they did in Basel II, and the Feds are sitting there with their thumbs up their asses and doing nothing about it.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 384
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/25/2011 4:42:24 PM
WOW! This will be a long post!!

To my buddies "you wouldn't complain nearly so much"

My bad, guess you don't know my story, posted some or all in different forums. I grew up in one of the worst neighborhoods in NYC, dirt poor. My mother was a waitress and worked 2 or 3 jobs. I went to work on wall street and went to CCNY at night. I make no apologies for what I did or who I became. I was getting up and out!

Yes growing up I was raised a liberal, so what? Does that mean I can't succeed? Or for that matter sympathize with those who couldn't get out? I see there struggle and know what it is to be at the bottom. So in my head, you walk your side of the street I'll walk mine.

I can always figure out how to make money, no matter what rules they impose. We from wall street are like roaches, we would survive nuclear winter. No matter how you change the game, there will always be a way to beat it, no matter what laws they pass. The only way we go away is to end the game, THAT will never happen! Aside from that, you will never get it, unless you have been beat by the system and almost EVERYONE gets beat by the system.

As for your CEO and executives, the board, "IF" the company is public and they are voting themselves raises, perks, stock options. They (depending on the amount) are stealing from the stockholders!! Most of that money should be paid in dividends, to the rightful owners, the shareholders.

Now onto my next buddy, so you want to discuss "neutron jack" huh?

Well I'm sure they are singing his praises in places like schenecktady, hudson falls, fort edward, erie, pittsfield and bridgeport among other places! Bad management is no better than poor management.

First he closed all these plants around the country, laid off 100,000 workers, moved the facilities to anywhere in the third world that would build GE's sh1t, for no money, no environmental concerns.

Back here, stymied legislation and clean up laws about PCP's and other polutants for 25 years. Even getting the government to fund some of the clean up. Yeah great guy!

Had I don't know how many lawsuits against him for various discrimantion acts. Like the woman he interviewed for a sales position by asking "will you fuk a guy for a million dollar contract"! Oh a real peach!!

Funny isn't it, i don't know the numbers, but for each 10,000 there are so many criminals. yet in the fortune 500, it seems we have 1 in 20! Hahahaha!

Koslowski, the Enron crew, Adelphia, the list is endless it seems.

But we have so many examples of bad management we don't even need to look at the crooks. Take your pick, GE, GM, FORD, US Steel, Bethlehem Steel. Most of the railroads from the 50's to the 80's.

GE mismanaged their business so badly the only way to get past it was too shut most of it down. But you could have rebuilt it here, but that $5 a week labor rate in the third world was too good for jack to pass up!

GM and the car mfgrs, same thing, they gave and gave into the unions and passed on the cost to those smucks buying the cars. Why bother, they were still getting their stock options and bonuses. then along comes Japan who starts eating their lunch. So they take a page out of Neutron's playbook and ship the mfg to mexico and anywhere they can get labor for next to nothing.

Who cares if 500,000 are out of work, right?

Now as a businessman, I can't understand your thought process when you say "I can understand why their compensation packages can be so high." Well maybe for an inovator like Jobs, BUT even he shipped the work offshore. But for some of the more average, huh? No one returned a comment on the guy running Netflix? Why is that? Cause he was a dope! BUT he will get his whatever millions for running the company into the ground. Instead of a million more subscribers this quarter, he loses 800,000. Yeah great job!!

As for you "CEOs are paid a token salary" comment, I told you, average CEO pay for the fortune 500 is 11 million, that's some token!

One thing I will say about wall street, until the past few years when banks muscled into the biz, pay was phenomonially low. Most made around 500K to 1 million, then got paid in bonus if the company did well.

All of your arguments are bogus. IF these guys were as good as they say they are. They would have no problem forgoing huge salaries and getting paid on the back end by performance. But they won't, 1 million wouldn't make their lives as cushy, further if performance stunk, they would get bupkis, now that wouldn't sit well with them right?

whew!! enough of all this tom foolery. You people really need to know more facts, or at least what the story REALLY is.
 OMGyaa
Joined: 3/21/2011
Msg: 385
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/25/2011 4:47:42 PM
I am sure the banks already had figured out loopholes before it was incorporated. It is too easy to manipulate systems on a grand scale and governments are not equipped to implement solutions in a timely manner .
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 386
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 5:52:45 PM
They get divorced as well (corporate division split offs)They can even have babies... (Sub corporations)They can grow their own food (by seeding other companies to produce specific parts for something they need to survive)They can even be sued just like any other person.


Give em a premium tax rate time out. ;)

P.s. That was creepy my friend. Talking about robots as people is one thing, talking about a set of buildings and papers and charters and such as a person.....well...

No other Major American city falls under Congress.


Libyan ones did.



they're the ones that took the chance and risked capital,


But not their own, just shareholder and public capital..that was gifted them as a job perk.

But who's keeping track

You underestimate me


*sigh*

Trying to incorporate or get bought out hu. {either that; or you are a corporate lawyer)

No worries; we understand


They also treat each and every employee as an individual...


So; not as one part of the person called the corporations anatomy; but.....as an individual?

Ooo; probably best not to name brands chief.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 387
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 6:28:28 PM
It is the CEO who is responsible for that integration.


And he does it AAALL himself. Uses no middle management that has been there for 20 times as long as himself nor does he utilize the company knowledge of corporate secretaries, or engineers who brought in or cretaed design patents etc etc. While everyone plays solitaire, or dice in the plants, the CEO is getting er done!!



hu? Me no right?

I do NOT begrudge CEOs, as someof them are worth WAY more than any of us workers for SURE. However; that #, I would hazard, is a percentage smaller than 20% Those who build the company from their own vision, and take a small proprietary firm or partnership huge...absolutely. (to a point when they have delegated....well..everything)

Mercenaries for hire? (Maybe 2-5% are worth that much more; perhaps more)

NONE that lose the money, or jobs of everyone else involved.......deserve any bonuses. Mind you; they dont care.

They are barons/robbers, they know they are barons/robbers, and well, deal with it if you can.


And as much as we love the self-made success story, we hate the cheater that much more.


*shrugs*

So what...
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 388
mr adaptable.
Posted: 10/25/2011 8:01:24 PM
Hmmmm, interesting!?!

That was a couple of interesting posts! Glad he's on your side Ice, I wouldn't want him on mine!

Gee, I don't even know where to start. so much material, so little time. I guess youse guys, know your stuffs!

Well let's let the commie give it a go, shall we?

"one of bush's biggest mistakes"

Well from my POV, the biggest Bush mistake was senior not letting W be a blow job! Errr, sorry couldn't resist!!

"one of bush's biggest mistakes was not getting in front of the tidal wave"

Now are you talking about Katrina, or his economic policies? Oppps, sorry couldn't resist again! Sorry, but this is too easy! Let's see, first we have the crash of 9/11. The air got sucked out of the economy, they needed to do something, Greenspan admitted he made a mistake, made credit to easy. caused the housing boom. Those were simple words, I hope all can follow.

So let's see what followed. Well anyone who was breathing could walk down to kinko's and have business cards printed that said "mortgage broker", no test or license needed!

Then all the mortgage companies like "we cheatem and how mortgage brokers" could sell this bag of drek to a bank. The banks then packaged them in tiddy bundles with a piece here and a piece there, and sell them to unsuspecting pension plans and investors around the world!

With me so far?

Now during this time, "hit em and wham" real estate brokers, took those nasty poor people to their office and said "have I got a deal for you, and I even know the head broker from we cheatem and how mortgage brokers." So then they failed to disclose we will arrange a mortgage on the property that is sure to bankrupt you in 3 years, unless you sell the house first! After all you know these willy poor people, they have accountants, lawyers on staff to review their every decision.

So let's just see who wound up in the poor house. Well ms. real estate broker got her fee from the seller. The mortgage broker got his fee from the mortgage company. The bank got a fee for packaging the mortgage and sellin it as a CDO or MBO. The only loser was the schumk who bought the house, then couldn't sell it when the bottom fell out of the market!!

"but by then the soros bot and paid for media wouldnt utter one single positive word about bushie(cute) and the repubs"

Gotta admit for a dufus shrub tried his best! Not only did he encourage Greenspan and the banks to turn on the tap. He also started "2" not one but "2" wars to try and get the economy jump started! Now ya gotta admit that took hutspa! Hahahahaha!!

Now the only problem with this posters fairy tale is George Soros, doesn't own media, you are confusing him with that other idiot Murdoch! Who supports the republicans, and does their sh1t work.

The only "chips" that fell were cow chips on the head of anyone who bought a home from 2006 on.

As for the rest of your bigoted diatribe, I will not dane it with an answer.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 389
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/25/2011 8:07:11 PM

i agreed with you before, you fool. of course great ceo's are valuble, you meant to write this to one of the other commies here on this board. your humble apology is accepted
First thing I'm not a fool, your friend, colleague, associate nothingggggggg.

Second I didn't apologize nor will I apologize

Third, I don't see any communist on this thread, a few left leaning pundits and I don't see any commies/communist

are we Crystal Clear Slick!!!
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 390
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 8:08:21 PM
One way employers reward excellence is through bonuses,


hmmmm

And rob from those who hide it away instead of sharing, and believing. Governments.....or cabals. (and which...cabals) CEOs cash out; and become "BRAIN,......Trust"

"Trust"?

"Abuse of public trust?"

Not's prevalant right now; because each n every one of them, are being seen.....daily. (Leaks....Wiki......"leaks")

Promise; I think it leaked on me real fast, just recently. ;P (whaa)

So; the war on Ghaddafi's over....

So let's see what followed


Indeed.

With me so far?


I may be ahead of you; I really dont know anymore. I'm real stupid ya see; so I should probably just stop now and go backwards n check to see if I'm reading this right? ;P


we will arrange a mortgage on the property that is sure to bankrupt you in 3 years, unless you sell the house first!


The maths done. (Wicked Play)


soros bot


Greek net scanner?

I hear of this guy alot; HE'S big. (but....uh...who is he? Do I like him?) ;) [please excuse my ignoreance]


As for the rest of your bigoted diatribe, I will not dane it with an answer


:)

I had to bring out a calculator to just start creating an answer actually.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 391
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 9:12:54 PM
The movement definitely has its flakes, but at least they are taking a stand. And Elizabeth Warren just makes sense every time I hear her talk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK1MOMKZ8BI&feature=youtu.be
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 392
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/25/2011 9:23:07 PM
Sorry GTP, saw your earlier version of the post.

I am far from a "good guy", I am one of those people from wall street! Doesn't mean I don't understand fair, just means I did what I had to do! The game of "playing the market" is as complicated as trig or algebra. I don't justify what I did, just want others to understand how it work.

George Soros is a hedge fund operator, operating here in the USA. He buys and sells mostly investments in currencies, companies and futures contracts. He(not unlike myself) operates an investment company, that specializes in short term gains, based on economic models of supply and demand with socio-economic implications. In other words, he bets on people's grief!

Should you like him? Having met the man, no you wouldn't or shouldn't. He operates on the principal of what's best for me, or greed. Now that doesn't mean he can be all bad, nor will he be all good.

As for Ghadafi, Muburak, Huessain and all the rest( sorry for the spelling) why should any elected official from any country live well beyond what their people can, because he can kill them, or rule with an iron fist? Gawd only knows how much these three, plundered out of their respective countries. Literally hundreds of billions of dollars!

NEVER say your stupid! Say you're learning, that you care what will happen in the world is enough. For what I learned, what I did, I would burn in he11, if I believed in such a place. There is NO ONE on this forum, or in this world, who is beyond learning, if they want to.

Just the way it is!
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 393
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/26/2011 4:06:25 AM

No worries; we understand
From your post, it's obvious you don't understand; and from experience, it's not worth trying to explain them to you since you don't have the aptitude for learning that this requires.


As for the rest of your bigoted diatribe, I will not dane it with an answer.
Dane? Dane?... Or did you perhaps mean deign?

Gotta love when someone tries to be condescending and turns it into an epic fail...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What I don't understand is all of these people that expect the CEO's and such to take a pay cut... never in my life have I asked to NOT be given an increase in my wages nor have I said no to an increase in pay. I highly doubt anyone else on this forum has either, yet you feel it's acceptable to dictate that someone else should take a pay cut.

Odd... and more than a little hypocritical...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 394
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/26/2011 5:31:31 AM
Did you know the average senority of a CEO for a fortune 500 company is 6.8 years? And that the average CEO sits on the 1.5 board of trustees of other companies.

Meaning that CEO's vote on the compensation packages of their peers, thereby, perpetuating inflated and obscene salaries and compensation packages ...and that they have much less senority that the average working stiff in the company they head.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 395
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/26/2011 5:35:02 AM
I don't know who you were responding to, lint, when you opposed calling for CEO's to take pay cuts. I THINK I disagree strongly with you on it.

The reason I myself call for CEO's to take pay cuts, is NOT because they are paid a lot, it's because all too often, they are getting INCREASES in pay, as a reward for overseeing a SHRINKAGE of the companies they are running. I don't at all think that it is acceptable for anyone on the top to declare to their workers that "times are hard, so that your pay must be reduced," who do not ALSO accept that the very same logic should apply to THEMSELVES as well.

You appear to base your opinion that they should NOT contribute with a pay cut of their own, on the fact that many CEO's if not most of them, do not set their own pay. Most of them have their remuneration set by a Board, but that Board consists of OTHER CEO's, who tend to vote to INCREASE pay to each other.

I'm all about consistency in applying logic. If a CEO manages to INCREASE his company's value across the board, and not just as a percentage (the ones who shrink the companies and get rewarded, have usually done so in order to make sure that though overall gross receipts for the company have fallen off, that the PERCENTAGE of profit is either stable or increasing), then rewarding them for this accomplishment is valid.

The trouble is, that especially since the 1980's, that has not been the case. CEO pay has increased steadily, in spite of lower pay for workers, lower performance by the companies, and smaller gross receipts, and zero or even negative growth.

I have always agreed that dealing with change in the world will often require that sacrifices must be made, it's just that I don't think that it should ever be true that someone should be REWARDED for seeing to it that the sacrifices are all made entirely by OTHER people.
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 396
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/26/2011 7:06:06 AM
Bigbad...


Did you know the average senority of a CEO for a fortune 500 company is 6.8 years? And that the average CEO sits on the 1.5 board of trustees of other companies.

Meaning that CEO's vote on the compensation packages of their peers, thereby, perpetuating inflated and obscene salaries and compensation packages ...and that they have much less senority that the average working stiff in the company they head.


Did you know that the average NFL player is active for only 4.3 years? Do you know that they have agents that get them the most money possible. Do you know that the owners of the teams will pay or not pay them? Do you know what the average maintenance person who washes down the sweaty benches in the locker room makes? Bet it's under a million.

So what's your solution? Legislate how a CEO can make? Why stop there? How about how much almost retired financial planners can make? How about how much Payton Manning can make? How about how much Michael Moore can make? How about we all just make the same in UtopiaVille? And then we can wear cool Mao suites as well.

What if all CEOs made what the average ad-min made? How does that make your life any better?
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 397
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/26/2011 7:33:02 AM

sorry, iceman, i thought you had some balls, too. wrong there too.
rolling my eyes , yeah okay Slick Is this the part where Im supposed to go booo hooo hooooo




one is either a capitalist or a communist. its pretty easy here to tell who is who.
Perhaps this is a little above you, show me please, but people can feel this way about certain issues in life. Only simple minded people see every issue in terms of black and white.

Let me break it down for you, so you won't be scratching your head too much, actually never mind, you might not understand it.

I love it when people like you praise capitalism but doesn't understand it, do you own a business that has employees? or do you work for a corporation?

This whole commie kick is really laughable, you have no idea what communism is? to you its a word a punch line a word people like you uses because 1) you don't understand it and 2) you've been spoon fed this crap that some idiots in congress tells you. For the record I for one don't like or embrace communism or socialism, but I wont put people down that embraces it as much as I hate the aforementioned, I embrace, love capitalism but we dont have or live in a capitalist society I for one wished we did, we live in a plural society that embraces Capitalism, socialism, statism ( government controlled/meddling"crony capitalism" ) this is what the OWS protesters should be protesting "CRONY CAPITALISM" all the corporations that are in bed with the Fed's


sure, capitalism has its problems. its only the best system ever devised. communism, and its various forms, whether its red china, or greece, doesnt really seem to work in the long run.
That is the only thing you said that actually makes sense and I actually agree with.

Do you actually know what caused the financial meltdown? or are you just on your commie kick, I hate Obama bullshit , although Im not a fan of President Obama, he inherited a mess from the previous Administration

I'm betting you have no idea and you want to blame the "commies" for the meltdown.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 398
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/26/2011 8:01:57 AM

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need (or needs) is a slogan popularised by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Program.[1] The phrase summarizes the principles that, in a communist society, every person should contribute to society to the best of his or her ability and consume from society in proportion to his or her needs. In the Marxist view, such an arrangement will be made possible by the abundance of goods and services that a developed communist society will produce; the idea is that there will be enough to satisfy everyone's needs.


Sounds great on paper.....The problem is it DOES NOT WORK!

Not one socialist country has worked as well as capitalist America.

If you tweak that just a little and put it on a personal level and make it....... according to ones ability to supply their own need.......then you have the formula to be prosperous and successful.

If a person desires more in a capitalist economy they can work harder and achieve whatever they desire.

In a socialist economy they wait for the government to hand it to them because they are entitled to it.

Instead of being jealous of the ones making mega bucks and wanting them to share the wealth........Why not go work harder and make it for yourself?


amen, the man is a capitalist. the others are easy to see what they really believe in, the nanny state. the obama voters. ruining our country. congrats, commies, and useful idiots serving them.


This comment puts it in a nutshell......The ones that want a NANNY state doesn't want the responsibility of themselves.....They want the "government" to be responsible for their well being.

The problem is the "government" is the people not matter the form of government is in power.......America just states it's founding documents.

There are no guarantees in life.....The last great democratic president JFK said "Ask not what your country can do for you but ask what can you do for your country."

You can blame the bankers for the housing meltdown if you like.......IF the people that decided of their OWN FREE WILL to buy a house they knew was more than they could afford.......Had used a little self control and bought a house they could actually afford.

There wouldn't be so many foreclosures!

Economies rise and fall they always have and always will......Thinking you can make them have consistency is folly.

Each person preparing for these ups and downs is a much better plan than expecting the "government" to take up the slack.
 totalazzhole
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 399
protests that ended the vietnam war. and other bunk
Posted: 10/26/2011 8:04:49 AM
godless communists (USSR) basically defeated Hitler's armies, but the 'better dead than red" crowd could never admit that. at least 10 million Soviet military & civilians were dead..AND red (with blood) under the Nazi advance but finally repelled it.

most people who SAY they believe in 'capitalism' REALLY mean they believe in a system where the Gov. makes laws that favor THEM, and not their competitors, and gives them handouts or favorable tax rulings..thousands of lobbyists in Washington DC make a VERY good living doing this..CRONY capitalism..if the US were so ' pure capitalist' why are there more lobbyists in the US, currying gov. favor for corporations, than any other country in the world?
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 400
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/26/2011 9:02:15 AM
Dane versus deign? REALLY? All the information posted, not only by me, but by others as well. This is what you focused on? Funny, someone said never argue with conservatives, they never let facts get in the way of their beliefs! Yes you're indeed right, although it's evident who failed!

As for the capitalist/communist debate, who knows? Just like in this country capitalism has been perverted, allowing maybe less than 10,000 people to hold sway, over the vast corporate landscape. Many times boards are interconnected, with some members being on as many as 7 boards.

Now when you consider that there are 70 million stock holders in the USA, but only the elite 10,000(give or take) hold positions of power, decide what a CEO makes, done in secret by the compensation committees, that does smack of cronism.

Human nature is such, that it should be evident why communism failed. It failed because of 2 major reasons in my mind. 1 an arms race with the USA, that focued more resources on that than the people. 2 cronism by putting brothers, cousins and friends in positions that they never belonged in.

Now that last sentence rings true today, with corporate governance. Most boards are hand picked by the CEO. Are there disident slates? Absolutely, but few rise to power. Why? Because the 70 million stockholders in this country either send in their proxy for the board to vote it, or because the vast number of shares are held by mutual funds that vote with their purse NOT their brain.

"If a person desires more in a capitalist economy he can work harder."

Now for the most part, I repsect most of the people posting in this discussion. There are some who seem to have either a bias or lack the where with all, to discuss the issue.

It's the same with life. Some people can lead, others must follow. Not everyone has the brains, education and know how to be a CEO. The worst or most poorly educated are relegated to minimum wage jobs. Though in my head, you don't throw anybody away.

The republicans have for years, tried to remove the minimum wage. Are those people supposed to either die or live in the street? Is it right for a CEO like the guy from United Healthcare, who holds a small amount of stock, made 87 million last year, while most of the people who work there make 50K or less processing claims?

I guess in my head I would phrase it this way. So a company makes 10 million, the CEO pays the workers 1 million, the stockholders get 250000 to 400000, and he gets the rest? Simplistic I realize before my fans jump all over me. BUT the theory or thought remains, how much is too much?

Why couldn't that UNH CEO have made 17 million, a potrion to workers to increase wages, and the rest to stockholders in the form of dividends? That's still a HUGE amount of money, by most standards. Alas greed always wins!

It's not about working harder, sometimes the system works, and the person doing the work catches a break and is able to move up within the system. Many other times, it does not, and the executive sweet(kidding I know suite, but couldn't resist, needed to give one poster something to correct)barrs anyone that doesn't know the secret handshake, the wink or didn't attend the right school.

You can't play the game if they don't let you get a chance to bat.
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