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 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 451
Occupy Wall StreetPage 19 of 53    (13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53)
Paul...



It seems like all of these power struggles go on and have always gone on, and the power shifts a bit from to the other, and then back.


The shift back to "the people" has been on a long downward slide in this country and the rest of the world. Look at the EU: a bunch of unelected, smelly drones in Brussels can dictate how the French are supposed to make bread. Presidents here have been on a power grab since FDR.

Obama effectively nationalized the student loan program when he decided that private banks should not be getting a "profit" on the loans. Now the student loan program is the Freddie Mac of housing, and we all know how successful that has been.

The Drum Bangers will probably think this a good and grand thing, but all it does is give government more control of an individual's life. But I think, really, this is what they want. Daddy Obama cares and will take care of us. Right. Soon as he gets back from Martha's Vineyard.
 HappyDip
Joined: 9/13/2011
Msg: 452
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/27/2011 7:03:34 PM

I don't know whether those in a position to put a stop to the student loan bill were just not on the ball, or they just didn't see it as a fight worth fighting

I don't think a majority of them read it.
I mean wasn't it Nancy Pelosi that came out and said something about finding out what's in it after it gets passed.
I wonder if that's just what happens with most things that go through. One or two people that are responsible for it know what's in it, or parts of it, and the rest just want to know what they are going to get (politically or financially) if they vote for it.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 453
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/28/2011 4:51:39 AM

Obama effectively nationalized the student loan program when he decided that private banks should not be getting a "profit" on the loans. Now the student loan program is the Freddie Mac of housing, and we all know how successful that has been.


Wrong...the new student loan program has nothing to do with private bank student loans...it has to do with the consolidation of federal student loans-only



I don't think a majority of them read it.


I don't think the last 2 posters read it. So, here's the link to the White House fact sheet on the new student loan program:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/10/25/fact-sheet-help-americans-manage-student-loan-debt

 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 454
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/28/2011 7:14:11 AM

Yes, there are private loans available, but what idiot would take one when the government will guarantee a deferment and will reduce the payment if you work in social service of some kind and will forgive the loan in 20 years or so?


Exactly lets put some numbers to that......A 200k student loan with the 10% of salary cap on payments would allow the "student" to pay back as little as 28k.

With the "government" eating the rest.

Remember the "government" is "WE THE PEOPLE."
OBOZO.....is doing a end run around the Constitution.

As one poster stated this would be the Fanny Mae/Freddie Mac of student loans......and we all know how well the Fanny/Freddie deal worked out for the housing market.

The government has no business conducting business that can and should be done by the privet sector.

The government is there to protect us NOT PROVIDE FOR US!
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 455
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/28/2011 7:22:42 AM
mjyawn67,

Except that part where it says, y'know, "to provide for the common good" or somesuch.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 456
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/28/2011 8:11:30 AM

Except that part where it says, y'know, "to provide for the common good" or somesuch.


Here is actually what the Declaration of Independence says....


The Declaration of Independence reminds us that all people have inalienable rights—among them, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. To secure these rights, the U.S. Constitution creates a government of the people to “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.”


Do you see anything about guaranteeing a level of living....NO!

This is a statement of responsibility of protecting the people of the USA.
Making sure the people have the opportunity to have life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

It is up the each person to achieve their own happiness. To pay the debt they freely make and to be good people contributing to society.

Again this is NOT a mandate for society through the government to provide for the ones that want it handed to them.

So you have the words of the Declaration of Independence wrong.

Please read it in context and you might begin to understand the forefathers intent for this great nation.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 457
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/28/2011 9:16:00 AM
Some of you guys crack me up!! You're all free market until the free market reaches into your jeans, if it's someone elses jeans NO PROBLEM!!

The problem as I see it is free markets are NOT free! Especially in today's environment. The only "free market" that seems to encourage competition and is better for consumers(meybe?) is the airlines.

Even then I wonder. I question how much better things will get. With prices forced down airlines resort to artifical things to make money. Everytime they raise prices, some newbie enters the market, and works labor costs lower, leases used planes and forces the big guys back down. The only reason they are profitable at this point is baggage fees!

But look at any market and it's not free. We remove the usury laws and the banks gice each other a wink and a nod, interest rates on credit cards explode from 10-12% to 20 to 40%.

Student loans the same thing, government guaranttees and then they let the banks in and the rates explode. Now remember, tuition and costs have also gone way up. In fact the old ivy covered walls are doing their own sham. In order to get more juice out of the students, they now change books for classes EVERY year. No it's not that there is new material to cover, it's just better for the school book store. New books no longer cost $50 each, they cost $250 a copy. New books mean the kid can't sell last year's text book to this years new students.

Now what exactly is free about that? Does the kid have a choice about which text book he buys, no!

Please educate me about all these "free" markets we keep heaaring about, that will improve service and costs, and show me a few that actually saved the consumer money? You know the ones shrub and other republicans said, "competition will improve pricing". Yeah right!
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 458
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/28/2011 10:37:29 AM
Couple of things,,,
Oy, you mentioned term limits, those are meaningless. We voters can term out any elected official if we choose to. Term limits can be a trap, because an A-hole politician leaves one post, then takes another, and so on, it never ends. If they are doing good, don't you want to retain them?

Next, the student loan thing. I read , it lowers the rate from 15% to 10% of "discretionary" income. What does that mean?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 459
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/28/2011 10:44:52 AM

Next, the student loan thing. I read , it lowers the rate from 15% to 10% of "discretionary" income. What does that mean?


What that means is the monthly payment will be lower...better enabling repayment...as time goes on and discretionary income goes up...then the monthly payment follows upward.

Discretionary income is described as:

Eligibility is based on something known as “discretionary” income, which the federal government defines as anything above 150 percent of the poverty level. The poverty level depends on your state and the size of your family. The big idea here is to only allow people to qualify whose income makes it hard to afford their full federal student loan payments. (Private loans do not factor into income-based repayment.)

All of this is outlined in plain English on IBRinfo.org, a Web site maintained by a nonprofit group called the Project on Student Debt. Your lender or the company servicing your loan will decide whether you’re eligible.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/your-money/student-loans/explaining-new-federal-student-loan-rules.html
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 460
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/28/2011 11:20:49 AM
Well Clooney, yes and no!

One thing that bugs the sh1t out of me, is seeing an election where we are offered a xerox of what we have already, when we want change. This doesn't relate to republican or democrat, both are guilty of the SAME thing! Times change, issues change, challenges change, people change, politicians NEVER change. They offer the same claptrap they did 4 or 6 years earlier.

It can be a new guy, who cares? He offers the same views as the old guy did, with a slightly different spin on it. As to your point about "We votrs can term out any elected official if we choose to." I'm afraid doesn't hold water. There are so many who just vote the party line and never consider the issues, it can make you ill.

I always luv the guy, who would rather see American Idol than learn about an issue in a debate. Never mind that when elected, something he fervently believes in, goes away, because he couldn't be bothered to learn where the candidate stands on the issue.

As fo good guys and wanting to retain them, what I seem to see, from either side of the aisle, is power corrupts. Eventually it seems most spend more time trying to get reelected than doing the people's work. That's usually when the sh1t hits the fan, they will accept money from donors that don't match the people's desires. Case in point, the pharma and insurance lobby's.

Those 2 groups are equal opportunity contributors! They give to both sides, hoping that they can hold sway over issues that might impede their business model. Nice huh?

So everyone can look at each other and say it was bi-partisan even when it was a bought and paid for group that simply gave the nod and wink to their largest contributors cause.
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 461
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/28/2011 12:28:07 PM
Oy, those are different issues.
I'm only saying that term limits don't guarantee anything, just as changing the faces doesn't guarantee anything either.
 bodypro88
Joined: 10/15/2011
Msg: 462
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/29/2011 7:56:14 AM
"Since you live in Canada, I wouldn't expect you to know any of the geographic or political details of the US."

Really? It might be a good idea to know what your powerful neighbor that you share the longest border in the world with is up to.

Besides Canadians take delight in complaining about the supposed ignorance that Americans display towards Canada. Like we live in igloos and the usual cliches.
 HappyDip
Joined: 9/13/2011
Msg: 463
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/29/2011 8:51:29 AM

"Since you live in Canada, I wouldn't expect you to know any of the geographic or political details of the US."

I knew a 22 year old stripper from Canada that could (on the back of a placemat) draw a map of the continental U.S., then draw in each state, name the state, and it's capital.
She'd give free dances to guys that could do the same just for the provinces and main city of each for Canada. She said she has never had to give a free lap dance.

IME you can just as easily say "Since you live in the U.S., I wouldn't expect you to know any of the geographic or political details of the U.S.."


Like we live in igloos and the usual cliches.

I saw Strange Brew, so I know all about Canada.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 464
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/29/2011 9:30:50 AM

Really? It might be a good idea to know what your powerful neighbor that you share the longest border in the world with is up to.

Besides Canadians take delight in complaining about the supposed ignorance that Americans display towards Canada. Like we live in igloos and the usual cliches.

That was not - repeat, NOT - intended as an insult in any way, shape or form. You think a lot of Americans display ignorance - it's no better (worse, actually) if you live in Alaska. It's the igloo thing, the 'do you have electricity there,' and the 'do you have cars and roads and why can't you just get on the ferry and go to the city (Anchorage) for a day and come back the same night?' It got even more confusing for my family when I had a dog team and sled, and it took me years and a lot of photos to convince them the dogs weren't my only transportation.

When I made that original comment, I was thinking more of the numbers of people here in the US who don't know diddly squat about the state they live in. There are so many quirks to local and regional areas that even the locals don't know sometimes, it's really frightening to realize some of them vote and procreate. And I am so not gonna get into the state of the educational system.... one of my favorite soap boxes that frequently bores people to tears and has nothing to do with the OP anyway.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 465
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/29/2011 12:48:51 PM
Unions are bad for America or any other Country.


Only ones which have forfeited their orginal goal to benefit self, at others overt expense. Some of these tyrannical unions are out there; while other unions are very mujch required and not tyrannical.

*Yawwwn*

Same as CEOs......

Tighten legislation; make it harder to become a tyrant, drink a beer/wine/soda or whatever floats yer boat, *shrugs*, you know...

Labor Unions are not about wages or benefits, despite what is popularly told.
Labor Unions are about dignity and working conditions.


Wasnt it easy when they all actually.......were?

Go look at some of those bloated out of control unions; and tell me where you see "dignity".

As far as unions go, labor unions, Corporations at one time may have been started because of a lack of porta potties, but they are going the way of the dodo bird because of GREED on the part of the upper management


Well hey; we've now got it down to base fact. (I added one word)

You think tightening legislation is going to make it harder to become a tyrant?


Yaa; I do


and you will see none of them have unions which means no high legacy cost,


You may also see that they do not have in N.A, well, a legacy..... period.

No past workers to take care of; nope, not so many.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 466
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/29/2011 12:51:35 PM
You think tightening legislation is going to make it harder to become a tyrant?
 viper1j
Joined: 11/30/2005
Msg: 467
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/30/2011 12:45:36 AM
If it's a game of chess, OWS just pulled a killer move..

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/29/should-kids-be-occupying-wall-street/#comment-135344

Should kids Occupy Wall Street?

By Nicole Rojas, GlobalPost

Who said protesting was for grown ups? As these photographs show, kids are joining the masses at Occupy protests around the world.

The protests, which began in New York City as hundreds gathered in Zucotti Park to "Occupy Wall Street," have spread to cities all over the world.

And, the adults, some of whom have made the Occupy camps their home, are bringing along their little ones. Many believe they have must seize this "teachable moment" to educate their kids on income equality and the right to protest.

In Zucotti Park, a Brooklyn mother organized a sleepover for more than 80 parents and their children. A makeshift library within the park has a collection of children's books for parents to use.

Now that Occupy Wall Street has entered its second month, police in various cities are demanding that protesters leave their camps and increasing the use of violent means to remove them. And as some protests turn violent, the question remains, is it still safe to bring these tiny protesters out to demonstrate?
*******
REALLY smart move..
I have nothing but pity for the cop that pulls a Scott Olsen on a small child..
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 469
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/30/2011 9:06:55 AM

REALLY smart move..
I have nothing but pity for the cop that pulls a Scott Olsen on a small child..

I find it difficult to believe that any serious journalists have just noticed the children. There have been children in all of it from the beginning - more in some places than others, but still there. One judge in Nashville TN told the police they had no lawful basis to arrest peaceful protesters. And more, a lot more. It's interesting to see who's being swept up in some of the arrests, too - like Bo Diddly's son was arrested in the park that was named after his father. Nice.....
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 470
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/30/2011 1:28:31 PM
The coverage of the protests has been extremely slanted.

I saw an example in the Washington Post (yes, the paper regularly derided by the extremist right as a "liberal rag"): When the police moved in on Occupy Oakland there were a lot of images of citizens beaten, gassed, arrested and of course one marine with a brain injury. The Washington Post ran a photo of a policeman picking up a kitten that had been "abandoned" by those kitten-hating nogoodniks on its front page.

The 99% will be always ridiculed and attacked by the instruments of the 1%.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 471
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/30/2011 3:02:39 PM

I saw an example in the Washington Post (yes, the paper regularly derided by the extremist right as a "liberal rag"): When the police moved in on Occupy Oakland there were a lot of images of citizens beaten, gassed, arrested and of course one marine with a brain injury. The Washington Post ran a photo of a policeman picking up a kitten that had been "abandoned" by those kitten-hating nogoodniks on its front page.


And of course the ones arrested, gassed and beaten did nothing to provoke the law officers.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 472
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/30/2011 3:14:07 PM
Sorry again, "provoke the law officers", peaceful albeit loud protests, are supposed to be controlled, or deesculated, not beaten!

Did you see the macing of the marchers, earlier in this protest? They clearly showed the protesters were following instructions, walking on the sidewalk. Still a senior officer maced them and was then walked away. As though his image wasn't captured by the cameras.

Same with when the officers, in another day of demonstration, kicked one of the protesters, while some officers put their hands over the TV camera lens.

It's obvious, the cops have had their fill of overtime, believe these are subhumans, and want to get back to stealing apples, instead of watching the OWS crowd!

This is a no change thing, in history. Let the tea party march, and hate the people who oppose the status quo.

As for the "changes" I talked of earlier. Anyone can say or poo-poo the changes I suggested. The problem is the status quo is broken. No change invites the same ol same ol for the foreseeable future. Sorry if you have better ideas, I'll listen, but to do nothing will just tell these freakin idiots, it's OK to do what you want.

In fact, it tells them, you can go further, you didn't ruin things enough for anybody to really give a sh1t enough to try and change things.
 VGLGuySksFun
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 473
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/30/2011 5:38:20 PM
the problem with OWS is that the GOP and the Tea Party have no answer for it...

According the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics... We have 14 million people unemployed with 9.3 million people involuntarily working part time and only 3.9 million total jobs available. So even if we filled 100 percent of the available jobs, we still have 10.1 million people unemployed and still 9,3 million people working part time. If you're under 25 years of age, the unemployment rate is about 20 percent!
The very short is we've had republican presidential leadership for 28 of the last 43 years and at the end of the day we have a financial industry, too many lawyers, and a HUGE military... and that's about it.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 474
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/30/2011 7:03:37 PM

Sorry again, "provoke the law officers", peaceful albeit loud protests, are supposed to be controlled, or deesculated, not beaten!


What should you do when "protesters" don't leave? Violence is an inevitable conclusion when your attitude is defiance.

The ows protest in my city is getting in the way of other groups who have rented the park. They've cost the city 40k and counting so far. With winter coming they're going to create a liability problem if they're "allowed" to stay. So they gotta go. But they won't. Hmmm.

There are no protesters left anyway. They're all homeless people who think it's pretty cool being able to camp out in downtown. Ask them what their demands are now and everybody just shrugs.


We have 14 million people unemployed with 9.3 million people involuntarily working part time and only 3.9 million total jobs available. So even if we filled 100 percent of the available jobs, we still have 10.1 million people unemployed and still 9,3 million people working part time. If you're under 25 years of age, the unemployment rate is about 20 percent!


Every single American should watch this video. ...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/Occupy+Calgary+takes+some+heat/5627921/story.html

You'll love it when our homeless occupy guy goes off about being able to get a job right now but no way is he paying $2 in tax for every $10 dollars he earns.....


I'm not lazy. I can get a job right now. I'm going to work my ass off to make other people rich? I don't think so.


That's the spirit. I'm sure Oakland's finest would love a wack at that guy.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 475
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/30/2011 9:08:51 PM
"You'll love it when our homeless occupy guy goes off"

So a few homeless guys blend into the crowd. Are you really surprised by that?

There's food, entertainment and a bunch of people, you don't think that's a draw to a guy who sleeps in an alley by himself? You know this homeless issue has been growing for over 25 years, though no one can solve it. Is it drugs, or mental instability, or just a person having given in to the cruelty of the world. I don't have a clue, but to tell the truth, I'd rather the government invest a few bucks in finding the reason, then to pass some pork barrell legislation that gets some company a couple of billion, a few lawyers their bucks and some sleeze ball lobbyist another Benz!

So it's great the tea party morons come with their banners, a few saying to shoot the president( a crime if you don't know it) and everything is hunky dory!

If they are costing government soooo much, why not listen to what they want and maybe look into reforming some of the issues? OH NO!!! That would upset the status quo, let the bonuses keep rolling, the lobbyists keep making back room deals, and these idiots we elected keep doing what they want, instead of what we want!

Take a look at the polls. No matter who's poll you look at, people are tired of business as usual in DC, or in fact, the lack of the people's business being done. The republicans in the house should be ridden out of town on a rail.

Gawd help the OWS folks, winter in NYC, is not something to be taken lightly, especially in that park. The wind whips up from the river and it can get very cold.

But because you don't agree, just arrest them right? What was that poem, or essay?

First they came for my neighbor, I should have said something but didn't.....until it's today they came for me, but nobody was left to object! That's what happens when society allows the police to bully people away, than demonstrate. Then the people in charge can get back to stealing in peace!
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