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 runningman40
Joined: 5/26/2010
Msg: 26
Occupy Wall StreetPage 2 of 53    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
I remember going to a couple protests back in college. Don't remember what I was protesting for or against. I was probably trying to get some girl or other. My guess is that most of these protesters are just following along.
Millionare douchebags are a good target. ***k Wallstreet! is a good rallying cry.
But these demonstrations aren't as significant as the ones we saw in Wisconsin a while back where the protestors were coming out in bad weather week after week with an actual agenda.

If these protesters are ignored for a little while, they'll wander off.
Of course, that's probably what Mubarek said in Cairo about a year ago.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 27
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 8:16:01 AM
Funny how when the Teabaggers were stomping around with their Assault Weapons, they were left alone and unmaced.

Not so much with the OWS folks.

I agree the protest needs a unified idea to focus around, but the Tea Party wasn't much more organized in it's inception either, was it?

The three basic tenets that they should be concentrated on are:

1) Prosecution of the Banksters who defrauded and gamed the system, requiring us to bail them out. (Whereupon they paid themselves huge bonuses and bought up MORE banks.)

2) Introduction of serious regulation to prevent this from happening again.

3) Reversal of the Citizens United Decision. (If corporations are people, why can't they be put in jail?)
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 28
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 10:11:31 AM

Reversal of the Citizens United Decision. (If corporations are people, why can't they be put in jail?)


I can only hope these people adopt your suggestions, so the whole country can hear them. I wonder, though, how corporations like the New York Times, or the Daily Kos, or Media Matters could keep their rights to free speech if Citizens United were overruled. Maybe the Court could say that "good, wholesome, and righteous" corporations have First Amendment rights, but "bad, mean, and greedy" corporations do not.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 29
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 10:33:50 AM
Like most things, the message will take time to gel. For anyone to be disparaging the movement at this point in time is to ignore history and recent world events. Characterizing the participants as nothing more than dope smoking hippes skipping class is disingenuous and manipulative. It'll come back to bite them in the ass.

Stop the Looting and Start Prosecuting is a GREAT idea, which sadly, Obama and "Place" Holder will never move on.


I wonder, though, how corporations like the New York Times, or the Daily Kos, or Media Matters could keep their rights to free speech if Citizens United were overruled. Maybe the Court could say that "good, wholesome, and righteous" corporations have First Amendment rights, but "bad, mean, and greedy" corporations do not.


Wow, you just can't not take the cheap shot at anything liberal, can you? How sad. Tell you what, you show us how MM is as blatently and unrepentantly evil, grasping and greedy as say, Bank of America, and I'll happily rip them a new one as well.

How about we just treat coporations equally until they show themselves to be bad actors (Bank of America) and then slap the taste out of their mouths when they get out of line, and lock up the bosses?
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 30
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 11:49:58 AM
Historically, corporations and the wealthy for that matter, have always had to justify their actions as being in the public interest. The typical meme was that increasing the wealth increases the divide. More wealth means more for everyone. Obviously this didn't always happen, but there was an unspoken obligation to define your interests as being good for the whole.

That changed in my lifetime. Acting in narrow self interest became a good in its own right. Look at Bhopal. The company was warned of imminent catastrophe, to the point that the safety officer resigned out of protest. A decision was made to roll the dice with the lives of thousands to slightly increase the profit margin. That's the norm in boardrooms everywhere. Google's corporate philosophy (do no evil) is actually seen as weird and radical to institutional investors. They like the stock and the company because it makes so much money, but they really hate the mission statement.

The protest is an expression of frustration over the disconnect between the people that provide the means for companies and banks to make money, and the completely unconcerned actions of those companies to the people. The social contract seems to be only binding on one party; the people have to bail out the banks and investment houses when they fock up, but those same entities expect to be able to act without interest in their own society when things are going well.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 31
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Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 1:06:11 PM

How about we just treat coporations equally until they show themselves to be bad actors (Bank of America) and then slap the taste out of their mouths when they get out of line, and lock up the bosses?

Speaking of Bank of America, one of the many video interviews I've seen lately was one of an older black man who, along with many others, decided to withdraw the funds from his accounts. He appeared to be a respectable man, decently and soberly dressed, close to being - if not already - retired. He'd called earlier to see if the branch he used would be open and said he wanted to close his accounts. No problem, they said, come on down. He went down, and was met by a SWAT team and not allowed entrance. He was carrying his debit card and proof that he had money in the bank, and they would not let him in. Some people were allowed in, but there didn't seem to be any kind of rhyme or reason behind who was and who wasn't allowed through the doors, and there was a small group of people along with this man who were also denied entrance. This was in St Louis MO, btw.

I also have a BoA credit card, but no other account with them. I will say the interest rate on that card has nearly doubled in the past 5 years, and they've added an annual fee. I don't use it anymore, I simply pay and watch the balance go down. I doubt if I'll ever use it again, either.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 32
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 5:25:42 PM
You have to understand the difference between rational protesters and the Tea Partiers. To the latter, everything is a gun control issue, the hammer for every ill of any thing left of uber-conservatism. No proof whatsoever needed in the allegation that Obama and anti-corporate crusaders don't mention "gun control" as part of the list of grievances...just the allegation is supposed to discredit a democracy movement, more focused, peaceful, and sizeable than the far right hissy fits when the black guy took the White House.

From what I have seen, the 2nd ammendment focused folks of the far Reich have only served to ensure that the left is equally armed to deal with Joel's Army, Perry, Palin, Bachmann, and the other Reconstructionistas that want to boldly lead us into the 17th century with their witch and book burnings. Compared to the tiny tea party inssurection, this one is non-violent, intelligent, targets the real enemies of democracy, instead of being created by and paid for by, those folks, and there is more consistency in principles. So far.. The division has gotten so out of hand, than even well meaning folks, with enough COINTELPRO intrusions and subterfuge, can be lost in their messaging and forced to respond...flail, and be doomed by forces far more funded and focused. Hopefully years of experience will prevent this from happening again.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 33
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Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 5:39:28 PM
Wow, you just can't not take the cheap shot at anything liberal, can you?


I questioned something you called for, and now you complain I took a cheap shot. You want to change the subject because you can't answer the question I raised.

You're the one who said the Citizens United decision should be overruled. Citizens United is a corporation which funded a documentary attacking Hillary Clinton. The Supreme Court rejected a challenge to this documentary, holding that the First Amendment prohibits government from outlawing spending by corporations in elections.

The news outlets I mentioned are examples of other corporations. What would justify treating them any differently, under the law, from Citizens United? You don't explain why, if government could make it a crime for Citizens United to fund an attack in a political campaign, it couldn't do the same to these media corporations. Maybe you think the Constitution should only protect corporations you approve of.


Demand fourteen: Ban all firearms in America except for loyalty proven police and military.


I don't know how many of these protesters subscribe to that notion, but if they are typical, it's great news. That would show, for everyone to see, just what crackpots these people are. Anyone who would call for something so ridiculous can't be taken seriously.

In two decisions during the past few years, the Supreme Court has held that the Second Amendment applies to both the federal and state governments. Here's what that means: No law, anywhere in the U.S., can prohibit private citizens from keeping and bearing arms.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 34
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 7:23:43 PM
Who the hell is so stupid to actually believe that the 14th demand was actually written by a protester? I mean, come on - it's pretty much exactly what the stupidest tea bagger believes about the left. I didn't even read it in the original post since I realized long before I got to the bottom that the whole list was clearly just some nonsense the poster had found on the internet. But that last "demand" is so clearly made up by some idiot on the right that even someone who is sinking all their money in gold ingots has to recognize as bullshit.

Oh, and speaking of crackpots - nah, it's too easy.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 35
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Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 8:02:14 PM

Those who despise the protesters, seem in most part, to have lucked out thus far in this economic meltdown and have yet to be exposed to the worst level of economic inequity since the last crash.


I can't believe you've gotten away with this quote for as long as you have in this thread. This opinion is exactly the cause of your country's economic struggle. People who fail to save money, fail to get steady, reliable employment, fail to create their own employment, rely on unions to fend for them, live beyond their means, entitle themselves to nice cars and houses, and generally screw things up, must simply be unlucky, while those who do accomplish these things are just lucky. Sad sad world you live in.


The three basic tenets that they should be concentrated on are:

1) Prosecution of the Banksters who defrauded and gamed the system, requiring us to bail them out. (Whereupon they paid themselves huge bonuses and bought up MORE banks.)

2) Introduction of serious regulation to prevent this from happening again.

3) Reversal of the Citizens United Decision. (If corporations are people, why can't they be put in jail?)


Canada has "seriously regulated" banks that easily weather economic downturns. None of our bankers are in jail. Our elections act limits corporate sponsorships much more so than in the US. Our tax rates are pushing 50% in the highest brackets (128k and up). We have a corporate tax structure that places us in the top ten of countries in the world for business and investment. We have tax free savings accounts that will soon be the single most valuable vehicle for growing wealth. We've got a really crappy socialized medicine system but hey, it's free. We even have a third party to vote for on occasion. So my question is, what are we protesting here again?
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 36
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Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 8:10:09 PM
Another comment I just saw in the OWS:

"I served in the US Army.
I served 16 months in Iraq.
Now I deliver pizza.
I am the 99%."

But hey, he's just another whiner who doesn't want to work for a living...
 Sportsfreak89
Joined: 12/28/2010
Msg: 37
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 8:52:07 PM
I am in full support of this movement. Trickle down economics has failed us time and time again and is failing us yet again. I applaud those who are standing up to the big corporations and the super rich as aristocracies have also failed time and time again (in other countries too might I add). It's time to stand up to the Republican and Corporate Hypocrisy that is tarnishing America's legacy and destroying democracy. The Democrats are no special prize either but right now they are the lesser of two evils and are more likely to be fighting for us than the rich who paid for Republican campaigns.


DOWN WITH THE TEA PARTY!
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 38
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 10:00:45 PM
Ginned up, George Soros supported, Moveon.org, spoiled middle class kids and young adults who have no idea of what the real world is all about, camping out with buds.

The guys are going in hopes of a hook up with leftie babes and the leftie babes are going with the hope of hooking up with the leftie babes.


Hippies and Yippies of yore questioned authority; these drum bangers want more authority controlling every aspect in their lives, and they never, ever question the authority of government.


Bang a drum, get it on. Oh, yeah.
 LinuxD
Joined: 12/6/2008
Msg: 39
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Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 10:22:46 PM
Easy solution to everyone who wants total freedom from govermental oppression and a police state, corporate cronyism and everything else the malcontents are yelling about...


It's to the south and east (west,if you prefer to go that route and even north I suppose)

It's a country that has thousands of miles of beautiful coastline, gorgeous sun rises, and a burgeoning industry... in lawlessness the country? SOMALIA No govermental intervention.. about ANYTHING.. there has been none for 20 yrs or so.. Total freedom to make and KEEP your hard earned dollars ,, if you don't get shot or killed.. Total freedom to practice what ever religion you wish to,as long as the local warlord says you can, the freedom to have what ever type of house and or lifestyle you wish, until some religious zealot decides to drag you from it and gives you the ever so gracious choice of join us or die,and if not die, be maimed.

Wait.. thats not it! Take your children to a hospital.. but walk there.. 120 miles as a mother did.. and die from Cholera as she did.. 11 days after getting her child to safety.. Stiil thats not good enough for FREEDOM from governments POLICE and TAXES? pay a group of men to PROTECT you while you walk the streets.. and depending on if someone else pays them more.. you may or may not make it thru the day.. as you worry about your daily food rations being highjacked by a warlord..


Govenment and regulation is BAD.. I am telling you.. Somalia has the right idea.. DOWN WITH GOVERNMENT


*SMMFH*
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 40
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 11:18:38 PM

these drum bangers want more authority controlling every aspect in their lives, and they never, ever question the authority of government.


Read about the dopes who supported National Socialism in its early days in Germany, and you would swear these people were their reincarnations. Just as dumb, just as gullible, just as resentful, and just as intolerant.
 LinuxD
Joined: 12/6/2008
Msg: 41
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/7/2011 11:40:59 PM
The NSDAP were pretty effective in the speeches they gave... Tell them what they want to hear,whip them into a frenzy and instill a belief they were wronged and oppressed.. that is the way to the "TRUTH" And they had a charismatic front man.. who was a nobody.. but was a great orator..


i see a lot of jawboning going on and agitating.. hmm maybe history repeats it's self..
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 42
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/8/2011 6:16:43 AM
LinuxD...

Wait.. thats not it! Take your children to a hospital.. but walk there.. 120 miles as a mother did.. and die from Cholera as she did.. 11 days after getting her child to safety.. Stiil thats not good enough for FREEDOM from governments POLICE and TAXES? pay a group of men to PROTECT you while you walk the streets.. and depending on if someone else pays them more.. you may or may not make it thru the day.. as you worry about your daily food rations being highjacked by a warlord..


Govenment and regulation is BAD.. I am telling you.. Somalia has the right idea.. DOWN WITH GOVERNMENT


I totally agree with you! We need the government ambulance to take the child to the government hospital and treat the mother with government drugs, all the while she gets safe passage from the government police.... in a dream.... in a "fair nation", North Korean and Cuban dream.

In reality, here is what happens: the government ambulance is broken down due to lack of parts, and even if the mother and child could get to the hospital there is no room for them because it is the only hospital in the city, because all the other private ones were closed down due to government regulations, and the government police who are charged with protecting her are taking bribes from the warlords because there is no more money to pay them as the taxpayers are maxed out, so the mother and child are left to die at the side of the road next to the broken ambulance. After she dies the local politician comes along and picks the contents of her purse.

Nobody is suggesting that there is not a need for government, but how much government do you want? The moronic drum bangers who blather on about freedom want the government to run their lives and control nearly every aspect of daily living. I find that ironic.
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 43
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/8/2011 6:24:14 AM
shyindm...

US Senator Bernie Sanders: "The Occupy Wall Street demonstrators are shining a light on one of the most serious problems facing the United States: the greed, recklessness and power of Wall Street. Now is the time for the president and Congress to follow that light – and act. The future of our economy is at stake."


I don't know about you, Mr. Shy, but no Wall Street banker has ever taken a cent of my money unless I freely gave it to him.

All levels of government, however, have taken, at various times, up to 50% of what I have earned on a yearly basis. Then they spend that money on companies that make windmills or solar panels that either hurt the environment or are cons for wealthy and connected Democrat supporters. If I don't pay the government I lose my house or I go to jail. If I don't give a cent to a Wall Street banker nothing happens.

Who is greedy and reckless? Who has the power? Duh!
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 44
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Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/8/2011 7:02:01 AM

Read about the dopes who supported National Socialism in its early days in Germany, and you would swear these people were their reincarnations. Just as dumb, just as gullible, just as resentful, and just as intolerant.


You nailed it, if indeed you were referring to the Tea Party pawns, their rallies, their candidates, and legislative agenda since. They are manipulated and comandeered by ALEC/Kochs and adhere to the same values as your National Socialists in Germany then, and among neo-nazis and white nationalists today.
Or, as the Stormfront people put it,

One thing I noticed about the Tea Party crowds is that they are 99% WHITE!
These are my people and they are your people as well. Just because they haven’t fully awakened doesn’t mean that they are our enemy. The polls on these people is that they do not support any (R) or (D) candidate, but instead support the person who is more constitutional.
My suggestion to all you do-nothings is that you join your local Tea-Party at make changes from within instead of criticizing from the outside. I love my fellow white neighbor and deep down these good Tea-partying white folks want the the basic same freedoms and rights as we all do. I say we establish ourselves in there before the filthy frikin joos do.

I don’t give 2 ****s about the RINO’s or the libs but the majority of the tea party people I’ve met are now at least willing to listen to the WN viewpoint. I’ve converted several of them (especially on the Jew issue) and the immigration issue is a no brainer.

I’ve attended a few of the Tea Party gatherings and have found quite a few racially aware folks in attendance. I use these gatherings to wake folks up to the ‘Jew’ problem in this country with many leaving say “Hmmm” and following up with me via email for further mentoring on the subject.There are people I met during the Ron Paul campaign who were “clowns”, and now are active White Nationalists. I’m not willing to pass up any opportunity I have to make more of them. It only takes me a few minutes a day to make either subtle or blatant racially-aware posts on forums filled with Tea Partyers. If I make even one new White Nationalist, it was worth it.


And if ya'll wanna whine about paying taxes, why were so many of you "victims" silent when trillions were given away to the wealthiest via tax cuts, tax breaks, bailouts, and subsidies to corporate America. Where was the outrage when $3 Trillion was casually and carelessly tossed into the oil wars for our oil companies? Why was there so much silence when various trade agreements enabled and emboldened corporate America to quickly outsource jobs overseas and south of the border? Why did all this outrage suddenly surface when a half-black man was elected?

The Occupy Wallstreet folks that I know of are every bit as disappointed in the conservative, Wall Street friendly agenda of the Obama adminsitration as many of you are now, but they were also outraged for over a decade as this economic meltdown was being orchestrated.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 45
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Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/8/2011 10:20:10 AM

I don't know about you, Mr. Shy, but no Wall Street banker has ever taken a cent of my money unless I freely gave it to him.

All levels of government, however, have taken, at various times, up to 50% of what I have earned on a yearly basis. Then they spend that money on companies that make windmills or solar panels that either hurt the environment or are cons for wealthy and connected Democrat supporters. If I don't pay the government I lose my house or I go to jail. If I don't give a cent to a Wall Street banker nothing happens.

Who is greedy and reckless? Who has the power? Duh!

If you pay your taxes, quite a bit of your money has indeed gone to Wall Street bankers. Or did you forget about the bailouts?

As for what some of the rest of the posters have said, sure, there are probably some youngsters out there who just wanna have fun and get laid. But I also remember how idealistic youngsters that age (college) can be. Some are definitely idealists, hoping their bit will help. And not all of them are youngsters, not by a long shot. There are a lot of middle aged and older people out there demonstrating as well.

No one wants total freedom from government, what they want is a much tighter rein on what government can or should do. There's an old quote, which I'm not going to look up, to the effect that a government that can give you anything you want can also take everything you have.
 DartmouthRunner
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 46
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/8/2011 11:47:20 AM

I don't know about you, Mr. Shy, but no Wall Street banker has ever taken a cent of my money unless I freely gave it to him.


Who bailed out Wall Street bankers? The government. Where did the government get the money for the bailouts? Taxes. Do you pay taxes? If yes, then you have given money to Wall Street bankers.

So yeah, it is safe to assume they are greedy and reckless when they can come up with insane and stupid products (sub-prime mortgages) and the government will cover the tab when the bottom falls out.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 47
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/8/2011 1:08:08 PM

You nailed it, if indeed you were referring to the Tea Party pawns, their rallies, their candidates, and legislative agenda since.


There is no "Tea Party"--it's a loosely organized movement of conservatives. Their political philosophy is much the same as that of the men who founded this country. Pretty radical stuff, all right, from Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Hamilton, and the rest of them.

I don't know who you're quoting, but true conservatives condemn anti-Semitism and tend to support Israel very strongly. We leave the Jew-hating to Mr. Obama and his leftist friends.

Jeremiah Wright and his good buddy Louis Farrakhan once travelled to Libya together to hobnob with their fellow anti-Semite Moammar Khadaffi. But, of course, that may have been one of the endearing things about Wright that Mr. Obama never noticed during those twenty years of listening to his sermons about "God D--- America" and 9/11 being America's fault.

The Obamas' close friend and frequent dinner companion in Chicago, Rashid Khalidi, was one of the greatest boosters of the terrorist murderer Yasser Arafat and his PLO. When last heard of, Khalidi was professing his anti-Semitic tripe at some eastern university, and in his spare time working with his wife to help supply the Hamas terrorists in Gaza. Hard to murder Jewish civilians without money and weapons.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 48
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Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/8/2011 1:23:48 PM

But, of course, that may have been one of the endearing things about Wright that Mr. Obama never noticed during those twenty years of listening to his sermons about "God D--- America" and 9/11 being America's fault.

I am not an admirer of Obama - or any other professional politician - but it still irks me that that bit of a speech taken completely out of context still has the power to stirr people. One - just ONE news broadcaster ever showed the entirety of it that I ever saw. No one was interested in the fact that it was a highly edited YouTube video that left out about 3/4 of the entire speech, and cut off most of that sentence in particular.

Instead, how many years now has it been discussed to the point of nausea? It's like discussing a fantasy while ignoring the fact that fantasy is not reality. Or maybe discussing the merits of the cartoon critters in a commercial as if they were 'real' animals instead of deftly animated graphics.
 junipermoon
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 49
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Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/8/2011 4:12:55 PM

Who bailed out Wall Street bankers? The government. Where did the government get the money for the bailouts? Taxes. Do you pay taxes? If yes, then you have given money to Wall Street bankers.

So yeah, it is safe to assume they are greedy and reckless when they can come up with insane and stupid products (sub-prime mortgages) and the government will cover the tab when the bottom falls out.


thank you for phrasing so well what so many of us know.
 Coyotefeller
Joined: 8/1/2005
Msg: 50
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 10/8/2011 11:03:01 PM
Let's face it, the fecal matter hit the
ventilating device quite a while back
and most of us just want to ignore the
resulting stench of it all.....but in the
end we'll all have to go wash off.....trouble
is to find the frickin soap and enough
water to clean the damned mess up !
.....and if the 1% think their's don't stink
it's just sinus problems !
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