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 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 651
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Occupy Wall StreetPage 27 of 53    (13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53)

Look at W. VA as the future of the US should the Koch funded union busting and deregulation scramble prevail.

But at least we'll have some great music to look forward to?
Tennessee Ernie Ford.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joo90ZWrUkU
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 652
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/14/2011 4:21:51 PM
(earthpuppy) Iceman..
The Massey crime scene was the result of many factors, not the least of which was the union busting of recent decades. The UMW remains in W. VA. as a token entity and has very little power. W. VA. operates in many ways like a banana republic. Miners are turned against miners, miners are turned against communities that are tired of the terrorism of big coal, and the regulators, law enforcement, and politicians are tidily in the pocket of corporate interests there.


No one, Iceman least of all, is arguing that there ISN'T plenty of blame to go around, and that the unions are Black Hats while the corporations are pure as the driven snow. People (well, BALANCED, RATIONAL people, anyway) are saying that the labour unions are not blameless, nor are they (especially today) neutral in their political beliefs and involvement. Big difference. Of course, ideologues are notoriously good at ignoring facts that don't fit their biased preconceptions. This makes them boring and predictable, and (occasionally) amusing.

Arlo...
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 653
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/14/2011 5:33:43 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect


The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to recognize their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority


Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

1.tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
2.fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
3.fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
4.recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they can be trained to substantially improve.


 VGLGuySksFun
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 654
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/14/2011 6:49:36 PM
"This whole rich republican thing is so far from reality that it is just obscene. I can't understand why you hate your grandparents. Why do you hate your neighbors? Why do you hate people that have been able to have some level of success...? What is worse is quite a lot of the people who speak like this are themselves well off and successful. It’s a hypocrisy that I cannot understand. Bill Maher is rich, hell... Al Gore is rich; there isn't a single union leader that isn't rich. Do you see these guys lining up to donate their wealth to the government or anything... It's all a farce by rich liberals so they can connect with the lowly serfs... Every single liberal making more than 200k a year needs to donate all of their money to OWS... Once there is a massive donation by liberal media and liberal wealth to all of the things they claim rich republicans don’t do there is zero credibility."

Now here is ABSOLUTE AND TOTAL BULL SIHT

Over the last 43 years, total net worth and, worse, financial worth have been grossly transferred from the bottom 80% of the population to the top 20%. This doesn't simply happen by the top 20% working harder or only being smarter than the bottom 80%... on such a vast scale across the entire population, it only happens through laws that unfairly stack the deck in favor of the 20%. One can always select one or even a sizable group of individual examples in an attempt to confuse readers... but, when you consider this took place across 300 million people, the facts are undeniable.
The national debt BEFORE Obama, stood at $ 11 trillion. Most of this debt was accrued in the prior 28 years... since Reagan... and most of the transference of wealth took place at the same time. Republicans held the Presidency for 20 of those 28 years and the only time we had a balanced budget was while the Democrat was President. So why we don't allow the Republicans to pay off the $ 11 trillion first. How about we simply let the top 20% pay off the $ 11 trillion since they obviously benefitted most from the over expenditures.
 VGLGuySksFun
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 655
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/14/2011 7:21:57 PM
"'What do the OWS protesters want' and reading several articles, I still don't have a clue. They seem to want everything from social and economic equality, end corporate greed, corruption to jobs for everyone. That is all well and good...wouldn't anyone want these things? But the questions is how...what changes are to be made. There is no one voice, no leadership, no true goals"

i appreciated your post so i thought i would respond with my own thoughts on this issue. First, since the OWS has no single voice or leadership, you have to expect you're going to get a variety of answers on issues and no single position on any issue.
Second... i suspect the American Dream has in fact been stolen from them. It's not about the amounts of money people currently have, it's the gross transference of wealth which has taken place over decades. At present, we have comparatively very high corporate tax rates and VERY LOW personal income tax rates. In my opinion, when you peel back the onion, this combination supports a particular set of behaviors:
1) outsource labor to nations that have lower wage rates thereby increasing corporate profits... that's capitalism... but it doesn't take care of the nation...
2) each time we lower the personal income tax rate is a signal to business executives to take profits for their own personal gain... why take risks and invest in new technology or opportunities when you can take the profits cheaply for yourself... that's individual capitalism (aka "greed"). Do i blame them for doing it? Heck no... those are the rules in place! there are examples of this all over the business world... i believe the CEO of Verizon just took a $ 23 million annual bonus while laying off 10s of thousands of employees. Simply ask yourself, what did he do that was so great that he deserved that bonus?
3) the U.S. used to have a vibrant manufacturing sector... many of those jobs were outsourced to other nations. For a long time, real estate and construction took up the slack providing meaningful work for folks that didn't want to go to college. Now, with the collapse of the real estate, many of those jobs are gone too. The unemployment rate for people between 19 and 25 is over 16% ! If they filled every available job, regardless of where they are in the country, including all minimum wage jobs, the overall unemployment rate would still be over 7% and for those under 25, unemployment would still be well over 10%... depression levels...
4) not everyone is cut out for college but, we've made going to college a requirement and big business. So people are going to college... even less expensive state schools... and when they come out, they haves some amount of debt and there are NO jobs!
5) The U.S. annually spends more on defense than all other nations in the world combined and we have done so for decades! Simply stated, we spend 30% of total annual expenditures on the current military, 18% on retired military, and another 6% on other department defense (e.g. homeland security, state dept, etc). Think about that... we spend 54% of our total expenditures on the art of WAR.

At the end of the day... we need laws, taxes, and allocations that NATION build. Capitalism in the U.S. will thrive if the 80% are provided a growing opportunity to simply have a decent life and a sense of contribution and accomplishment.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 656
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/14/2011 7:30:42 PM

At the end of the day... we need laws, taxes, and allocations that NATION build. Capitalism in the U.S. will thrive if the 80% are provided a growing opportunity to simply have a decent life and a sense of contribution and accomplishment.


This is great. I'm glad you agree with the tea party and the general concept that the government tends to get in the way of this rational objective desire to uplift all and not just a small segment of the population. When left only to the government they really just tend to screw it up.

Who's your candidate?
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 657
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/17/2011 6:43:29 PM
just watching sky news from new york

thats some hiding the polis are giving the protestors

its saying they were going to disrupt the underground and
block the brooklyn bridge tonight?

in what way does disrupting the underground or blocking a bridge
enhance their protest? i would think that folk would just get pissed off
at not being able to get home from work.

we have a protest in st andrews square in edinburgh and all seems
to be going ok. no violence and ordinary edinburgers are just getting
on with their daily business and ignoring the protesters

anyway a few split heads on sky news just now
 carptopus
Joined: 11/9/2011
Msg: 658
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/17/2011 9:35:45 PM

Wall Street protesters may be on to something. A study of more than 43,000 transnational corporations and their links reveals that just 147 companies control 40 percent of the wealth in the entire global economy.

I wonder how much "global wealth" there is now than there was 50, 100 years ago.
I mean 40% of 100 trillion dollars is nothing much compared to 40% of 100 million dollars, depending on general purchasing power parity.
Also, how much of that "global wealth" is just accounting numbers on a book created by said companies pushing numbers around. Because part of that "global wealth" is still some of the shit companies like Enron put out there.
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 659
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/18/2011 5:46:59 AM
Occupy Drum Bang gets advice and support from a terrorist. This is why the Real 99% have little empathy with the mopes who are blocking traffic, diverting police assets, polluting their "occupy" sites and screaming against the evil corporations that a good number of the Real 99% either work at or are affiliated.


http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Controversial-Professor-Bill-Ayers-Speaks-With-Occupy-Chicago-Protestors--134045388.html?dr#ixzz1e1FGcQZO

I'm hoping that Bill Ayers, now in that 1% so hated by OWS, donated the majority of his wealth to the "collective". Somehow, I think he stands with Michael Moore: their wallets are sealed but not their lips.
 Bishopboat
Joined: 9/3/2010
Msg: 660
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/18/2011 6:55:34 AM
Occupy Wall Street = Marxism = Death
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 661
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/18/2011 9:24:39 AM

(Vlad Dracul) its saying they were going to disrupt the underground and
block the brooklyn bridge tonight?

in what way does disrupting the underground or blocking a bridge
enhance their protest?


Who benefits from this?

Arlo...
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 662
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/18/2011 11:06:51 AM
Obama benefits
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 663
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/18/2011 1:27:52 PM

Occupy Drum Bang gets advice and support from a terrorist. This is why the Real 99% have little empathy with the mopes who are blocking traffic, diverting police assets, polluting their "occupy" sites and screaming against the evil corporations that a good number of the Real 99% either work at or are affiliated.

I see you're still getting your news from La La Land. The various Occupy groups have been circulating lists of known infiltrators and have been attempting to stop them from stirring up trouble. Some non-protesters have commented that the real problems in not being able to drive through certain areas haven't been the Occupiers, but the massive turn out of the police - it's the police vehicles that have created the biggest traffic jams. And in some places, the police outnumber the protesters - and they are collecting all that lovely overtime, too.

Then there was the policeman who specifically targeted a pregnant woman who was simply standing on a sidewalk and pepper sprayed her. And the policeman who did the same to an 84 year old woman. One can only wonder what kind of threat she posed.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 664
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/18/2011 1:42:22 PM

massive turn out of the police


Yup. Seems we are finding out exactly who the police force works for, and it's not the 99 percent of us.
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 665
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/18/2011 1:51:57 PM

in what way does disrupting the underground or blocking a bridge enhance their protest?


Who benefits from this?


It gives the superficially minded unanalytical types something to focus on, so there is an obvious benefit. They can then have dull-witted conversations with their semi-vegetable friends and ask each other peripheral questions that have little to do with the issue and thereby gain a false sense of importance.

All the better if some simple answer springs to what they call their 'mind', because then they can just blurt this out unreflectively and further gain an illusory feeling of actual participation in the wider society that no doubt often seems impenetrably complicated.


Obama benefits
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 666
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/18/2011 2:01:38 PM

Obama benefits


If so, I only hope he keeps "benefitting" as long as possible from the spectacle these people are putting on. People who revile and scapegoat Jews, disrespect law and order, regard other people's property as their own, and want to dismantle our system of government, Alinsky-style, aren't yet a majority of Americans. We'll find out next November how popular they and their abettor-in-chief really are.
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 667
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/18/2011 4:25:59 PM
kari...


I see you're still getting your news from La La Land.


I will have to tell my friend, La La Land, that she is all wet. She was just imagining that she was stuck at LaSalle and Wacker (in Chicago) by a bunch of mopes in blue jackets who were sitting on the LaSalle Street bridge. When the police did finally make them move, traffic and people got going again. That La La; she's always getting the liberal fact wrong.

What does you commenet have to do with Bill Ayers, by-the-way? He was not an infiltrator but a welcomed and revered guests of the Drum Bangers.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 668
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/19/2011 4:11:28 AM

I will have to tell my friend, La La Land, that she is all wet. She was just imagining that she was stuck at LaSalle and Wacker (in Chicago) by a bunch of mopes in blue jackets who were sitting on the LaSalle Street bridge. When the police did finally make them move, traffic and people got going again. That La La; she's always getting the liberal fact wrong.

While you're at it, ask her how she feels about that young Marine in Oakland - you remember, the one who was shot in the head with a rubber bullet? He died. Two tours in Iran, and he's killed by US cops in a US city with a 'non lethal' weapon. I guess it's only non lethal some of the time.

Then there's the NY State Supreme Court justice who was slammed into a wall by the police at Wall Street, when she "expressed concern over the mistreatment of a protester" - http://freakoutnation.com/2011/11/18/supreme-court-judge-shoved-against-a-wall-at-ows/

Enjoy life in your happy little world.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 669
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/20/2011 8:01:19 PM
Some things are just so funny. Here's like a top ten list of the crazy stuff the occupy people are saying and doing in my city. It's just meant for a laugh. Is it even possible to take this seriously anymore?

10) guy with a heat sensing camera goes downtown on the first cold night and finds no one is actually occupying the tents.

9) We don't care if you leave the public restrooms open at night or not. It's for your benefit not ours.

8) the government charges too much for its video lottery terminals and doesn't provide a big enough payout to the people.

7) my welfare only covers the essentials like rent, utilities, food and other bills.

6) 21 year old protester complains about his $500 fine for dropping his cigarette butt because he only gets 1180 a month in assured income for the SEVERELY handicapped..

5) I could get a job anytime I want but you think I'm gonna work my ass off and then give 20% away so other people can get rich?

4) Occupy kids tough it out for a night but burn their tent down trying to stay warm.

3) Protester gets fired from his job at Starbucks, writes a fraudulent letter signed by his boss to the newspaper saying he was fired because of his involvement with Occupy Calgary and then spells his boss's name wrong at the end.

2) Occupiers demand electricity so they don't burn any more tents down. Perhaps water and sanitary services would be nice too. Maybe natural gas. Maybe a permanent house too. A mortgage and property taxes would be fun as well.

1) We're not going anywhere until our credit card debt and student loans are wiped clean.

I just hope this goes on a bit more. Great fun.
 Ailliss
Joined: 3/16/2010
Msg: 670
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/20/2011 10:25:27 PM
I see you're still getting your news from La La Land. The various Occupy groups have been circulating lists of known infiltrators and have been attempting to stop them from stirring up trouble. Some non-protesters have commented that the real problems in not being able to drive through certain areas haven't been the Occupiers, but the massive turn out of the police - it's the police vehicles that have created the biggest traffic jams. And in some places, the police outnumber the protesters - and they are collecting all that lovely overtime, too.

Then there was the policeman who specifically targeted a pregnant woman who was simply standing on a sidewalk and pepper sprayed her. And the policeman who did the same to an 84 year old woman. One can only wonder what kind of threat she posed.~kari135, msg 788

ask her how she feels about that young Marine in Oakland - you remember, the one who was shot in the head with a rubber bullet? He died. Two tours in Iran, and he's killed by US cops in a US city with a 'non lethal' weapon.~kari135, msg,793


Seems that Kari also gets her “news” from La La source.
The actual facts as they relate to her statements:


Scott Olsen, vet hurt at Occupy Oakland, discharged
November 15, 2011|Will Kane, Chronicle Staff Writer
(11-14) 07:10 PST OAKLAND — (11-14) 07:10 PST OAKLAND -- The Iraq war veteran who suffered a serious head injury after a violent Occupy Oakland protest last month has been released from the hospital.

Scott Olsen, a 24-year-old Marine Corps veteran, was rushed to the hospital by fellow protesters on Oct. 25 after police raided the Occupy Oakland encampment in the early morning.
Olsen suffered from a fractured skull and had trouble speaking, friends said.
"I'm feeling a lot better, with a long road in front of me," Olsen posted on his Google Plus account Sunday. "After my freedom of speech was quite literally taken from me, my speech is coming back, but I've got a lot of work to do with rehab."





Little sympathy for 84-year-old woman pepper sprayed at Occupy protest
Dorli Rainey is an activist who has supported liberal causes in the Seattle area for decades.
Pepper spray was deployed only against subjects who were either refusing a lawful order to disperse or engaging in assaultive behavior toward officers
," Seattle Police spokesman Jeff Kappel wrote on the department's blog.Among those getting a face-full of pepper spray was 84-year-old grandmother Dorli Rainey, a well known local activist.
Police spokesman Kappel says protestors assaulted several officers, including several trying to arrest a 17-year-old woman who swung a stick at police.
But 97.3 KIRO FM's hosts Ron and Don argue the police response was extremely restrained, pointing out the officers were in normal uniform and not riot gear and tried repeatedly to verbally break up the protest rather than taking a stronger physical action.
"They're lucky they didn't get bean bagged, they're lucky they didn't get rubber bullets, didn't get Tazed," said Don O'Neill. "I don't care if you're 8 or 84. If a cop tells you not to sit in the street, don't sit in the street. The 84-year-old woman had it coming."What are they supposed to do, let a bunch of protestors who don't have a permit take over a major downtown intersection, blocking people and leaving people trapped in their cars for hours at a time just trying to get home to their families?," "



Nathalie Rothschild
Freelance writer; Correspondent, spiked
This Preoccupation With Playing the Victims of Wall Street Is Pathetic
Posted: 11/18/11 09:58 AM ET

It all shows that today's radical left-wing activists are happy, not only to display great historical ignorance, but also to revel in an image of themselves as put-upon underdogs.
Why else would the new poster-girls for the amorphous OWS movement be an 84-year-old lady, a pregnant teen and a disabled woman -- three people who all got caught up in the tumult in the past few days? These are all figures many will recognize as fragile and innocent and so they are pushed to the forefront to demonstrate how vulnerable the protesters are.

My sentiments as well.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 671
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 2:46:26 AM
wow one of the great analytical types of a generation
came down from super analytical mind mountain to throw
a hissy fit at my post.

im made up big time

but they still never super duper analyticaly minded to answer
the question.

if you disrupt ordinary folk getting to and from work or about their
lawful business how does that endear your protest?

now maybe some of the more dull witted like myself would like to offer
an answer?

but please try not to use big words because being dull witted and only having
what is known as a mind i may not understand.

pity there were not 2 addional forums, one for the dull witted unanalytical
like me and another for the greatest analytical thinkers of a generation.

vlad dracul (still chuckling at the 9.2 on the hissyfitometer post and away to the library to get some books on how to become super duper analyticaly minded so i can join the ubermensch on analytical minded mountain)
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 672
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 3:31:51 AM
Ailliss:

Having myself been on the side of both ends of the political spectrum at various times in my life, AND being someone who reads extensively all the time, I know that just as the folks you are opposing might have gotten THEIR version of the story from a prejudiced source, so might YOU have.

These days, more than ever before, there are powerful, wealthy people and organizations, out trying to directly control the "news" that is reported. Fox might be the most blatant offender, but they are not alone.

It's clear that all of YOUR favorite sources, are written by people who DISLIKE the protesters, and so will believe and write as fact, anything negative that they hear about them.

In short, though you might think you have closed the book on who was right and who was wrong in each case, you have not. Replacing a set of left-leaning unsubstantiated versions of reality with an equally crafted RIGHT wing set of unsubstantiated opinions, isn't clarification. It's just counter-propaganda.
 Ailliss
Joined: 3/16/2010
Msg: 673
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 3:43:21 AM

if you disrupt ordinary folk getting to and from work or about their
lawful business how does that endear your protest?.~vlad dracul, msg 796


It does not help their protests.
I believe I answered your question in my recent message. Which also explains why an elderly person is just as subject to obeying law and commands from the police, who are merely trying to maintain civility and permit most citizens to go about their necessary routines, as anyone else.
 Ailliss
Joined: 3/16/2010
Msg: 674
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 4:20:04 AM

In short, though you might think you have closed the book on who was right and who was wrong in each case, you have not. Replacing a set of left-leaning unsubstantiated versions of reality with an equally crafted RIGHT wing set of unsubstantiated opinions, isn't clarification. It's just counter-propaganda.~IgorFrankensteen, msg 797


I do not see how you can state this.
“In short” what you are actually saying is that you would prefer to see lies spewed as fact as long as they favor your agenda. Truth matters not if it is not favorable to your leftist leaning.

Were you writing just to be argument? Seems so. Show me please where my statements are unsubstantiated. I addressed unsubstantiated rabble rouse with facts. If you think mine are merely propaganda then please cite your sources to counter my facts (as I did).

BTW I have no agenda in this as you apparently have. I merely corrected what were false statements submitted as fact.


I know that just as the folks you are opposing might have gotten THEIR version of the story from a prejudiced source, so might YOU have.

Sorry, but just your word is not good enough. Show me, cite your source for the death of the Marine. There was no prejudice in my post. Just facts.


These days, more than ever before, there are powerful, wealthy people and organizations, out trying to directly control the "news" that is reported. Fox might be the most blatant offender, but the are not alone.


Well thank you Igor. Were it not for you I might have remained ignorant as to the deliberate leftist leanings of main stream news media. IMO Fox is about the most reliable news source; why despite the many other sources of news they remain number one as the most watched news station. BTW none of my above quotes came from Fox news, you did see that didn’t you?


It's clear that all of YOUR favorite sources, are written by people who DISLIKE the protesters, and so will believe and write as fact, anything negative that they hear about them.


You have no idea as to my favorite sources of anything.
The news source I quoted regarding the Marine is apparently from the local Oakland news. Not a source I am familiar with but if you would like to goggle Scott Olsen there are hundreds of different sources all posting the identical facts.

The truth has nothing to do with whether or not one likes the protesters except in your eyes.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 675
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 4:53:41 AM
I keep seeing all of this left vs. right posting going on in this thread.

The facts appear to be that these are people of all walks of life occupying Wall Street and all of the other sites being occupied.

They appear to have gotten over the "I must be a Republican or a Democrat" syndrome and are working together towards REAL freedom instead of fighting each other to no avail.

The best tactic used to keep the status quo is to keep people fighting amongst themselves then they have no time left to actually see what is really going on.

It's a shame so many people STILL fall for it everytime.

What some of you see as an intrusion or silliness where occupiers are concerned is actually history being made. You can choose to stick your head in the sand and say "well it isn't me affected" or you can recognize that ALL of us are just one disaster away from being in financial troubles ourselves.

Wake up everyone.

This is a movement. I'm sure you remember reading about such things as the "Women's Rights Movement" and "Civil Rights Movement".

Why is it so hard to accept that there are people willing to put their safety on the line to protect you, your children, your grandchildren, your friends from perishing from this earth?
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