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 AUTHOR
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 676
Occupy Wall StreetPage 28 of 53    (13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53)
Really, how are they protecting anything? they are ****ing because they have bills and can't find jobs, they are blaming successful people for their lack of success, they are setting a bad example for our children, being slovenly, lazy and whining because things aren't going their way...drug use, rapes, assaults, etc..all taking place in OW camps nationwide...that's a great message to send....NO ONE OWES ANYONE ELSE anything, what we do in this world is up to us..saying that you don't have a fair chance is a LIE...blaming "Wall Street" for the problems of the world is BOGUS....many factors contributed to the state of the Economy, from Government, to Businesses, to individuals making bad decisions....its cool though, they can hold hand sing Kumbya and try to change the world by not showering taking drugs and whining....
 VGLGuySksFun
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 677
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 6:59:27 AM
"Who's your candidate?"

Obama
 VGLGuySksFun
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 678
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 7:03:20 AM
"Leaving 1 out of every 5 people without the opportunity to simply have a decent life?"

The top 20% already have a decent life... in fact, it's been made far better over the last 30 years while the average lives of the bottom 80% have been made far worse... this is a fact as published by research conducted by the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics.
 VGLGuySksFun
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 679
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 7:19:10 AM
"I wonder how much "global wealth" there is now than there was 50, 100 years ago.
I mean 40% of 100 trillion dollars is nothing much compared to 40% of 100 million dollars, depending on general purchasing power parity.
Also, how much of that "global wealth" is just accounting numbers on a book created by said companies pushing numbers around. Because part of that "global wealth" is still some of the shit companies like Enron put out there."

I don't believe the amount of global wealth is the issue... at any given time, a dollar has the same buying power regardless of who is holding it. At issue is the distribution of wealth in percentages... and over the last 50 years, the distribution of wealth has steadily moved from the poorest 80% to the top 20% but, the most rapid transference of wealth has taken place over the last 30 years... since Reagan 1981.
 Home_for_30
Joined: 2/6/2010
Msg: 680
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 7:22:18 AM

This is a movement. I'm sure you remember reading about such things as the "Women's Rights Movement" and "Civil Rights Movement".


Those movements had leaders and a message...a goal. This 'movement' doesn't...and it doesn't by design. No leaders, no common message, no common goals. I have watched and read a good deal about the OWS protests...and the more I watch, the more I scratch my head. I totally get the protests about business as usual after running companys and finacial institution into the ground, and getting bailed out. But that's the end of any common message. No real demands, no changes offered...nothing. The only people getting any air time are the loons asking for their college loans 'bailed out'. No, it's not just the rich white republician news agencies reporting that...it's everyone. The one's that make sense get squelched out by the clowns demanding 90% taxes on the wealthy. If they want real change for the better...get a common voice, a common message with realistic goals...presented to people in power in a professional manner...and things will change. MLK created change...not the Watts riots.
 VGLGuySksFun
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 681
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 7:49:55 AM
"We'll find out next November how popular they and their abettor-in-chief really are."

And if the GOP prevails... i propose that we will take one more big step toward the socialist remaking of our government.
If we ignore the problem (and hence avoid any solution) and we keep believing that there truly is no issue... these people all over the world are simply lazy and misguided and they truly have no one to blame but themselves... then i think we should prepare ourselves for the inevitable outcome... perhaps not in the next presidential election but, it won't take long after that... and when the dramatic change comes, i have no doubt the supporters of the GOP will point the finger of blame elsewhere.
 VGLGuySksFun
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 682
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 7:59:05 AM
"If they want real change for the better...get a common voice, a common message with realistic goals...presented to people in power in a professional manner...and things will change. "

We better hope they do because, as things stand, if they continue to grow as they are and they maintain a disorganized fashion, they are FAR more dangerous to our current government... all they really need to do is vote.



"MLK created change...not the Watts riots."

Until he was assassinated by a right wing fascist fearful that he was creating too much change.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 683
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 8:25:11 AM
My daughter did a high school history report this past weekend. She came across this. And know I remember...

We are all idiots. We do not remember the past. All we do is repeat it over and over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know-Nothing_Riot_of_1856

Over 150 years ago the world was coming to an end. We were being invaded. Jobs being stolen. Elections rigged. Riots.

All we do is switch up the topics and change the names.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 684
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 9:17:13 AM
Message, message who's got the message?

This aside from the usual BS about smelly, lazy, drugs and whatever the reason du jour is, for hating OWS, seems to be everyone's issue. All anyone seems to be able to focus on is "what do you want?"

Instead of viewing the outrage, angst and outpouring, everyone just wants a reason and a label, so they can put this movement in a box, and have a good reason to hate it like all the other popular movements in this country. Oh and yes, I mean hate it like all the other popular movements, we have seen this time and again, so save your sanctomonius clap trap, for each other.

Way back before the revolution, we had a group of the colonists, who had a problem with how england viewed and treated the colonies. Clearly there was a group who were loyalists to king George, and those thought we should be a seperate entity. Not until the stamp act and tea party(the real one, not fat people on lounge chairs with tea bags stapled to their hats) did leaders emerge and a cohesive set of demands emerge.

Then we had the suffragette movement, the beginning of women's rights. Again I'm sure women longed to own land, have the right to vote and other rights we take for granted now long before there was a list of demands and leaders.

Despite the bloodiest war in our nations history, laws passed, rights alledgedly established, it took over 100 years for their to be a civil rights movement, with leaders and a list of demands to come forward. Do you really believe that black men and women did not feel oppressed or act out, in that 100 years? Do you think that they just twiddled their thumbs waiting for MLK to come along?

The Viet Nam war protests were again, railed against by the population at large, as smelly, pot smoking hippies, who although had a clear message and leaders the Hoover and the establishment hated, were viewed as complainers. Not until the mothers of some of those killed in action took up the cause were they taken seriously. Even then, prior to those mothers articulating the message, the young's voices were described as just "hippie freaks" who just didn't want to do their part, not ever allowing that it was an unjust war.

Now we have the tea party, funny this ones very different. While it started as an unorganized group, due to the Koch brothers money, it quickly became a machine to gain traction. Instead of random groups showing up and demonstrating. We had on point messages, printed flyers, port-o-potties at meeting locations, organized press coverage and focused rallies with specific candidates to support. THAT doesn't happen without MONEY and SOMEONE pulling the strings.

Today we have OWS, less than 90 days old, with disparate groups showing up not only around our country, but around the world. Like all the others(unlike the tea party) everything is happening helter skelter with seemingly no organization, just a message that there is a lot wrong. The few meaningful reports from sites of the demonstrations show people concerned with the actions of wall street taking the bailout money and then not loaning it out, that big business more concerned with profits would rather ship jobs overseas to sweatshops where they pay $5 a day than a living wage and a slew of other issues.

The angst is palpable, the energy is there and growing. But now we live in the world of the instant media. The media is stymied, they want their 2 minute soundbite to report before they break for commercial. They want a face to step forward and be the new MLK, Carey Nation, Thomas Payne or Abby Hoffman or the mother of the slain soldier who carried the placard to lead the movement.

While those on the other side, just like the bigots of old(that's right I'm calling you bigots) who rather than wait and listen to the message would rather think like you did during those other movements! You would be akin to the loyalists of King George, or the KKK or white people saying "why ain't they happy their free now", or the ones who said "she should be happy being pregnant and in the kitchen, why should she want to vote, own land or a business, that's mens work.

Change scares people, they don't like to plunge into the unknown, even if it would be better for them, their families and their childrens future. Instead of a natural curiosity of why are so many gathering, why are so many angry, why has this happened now? You'd rather damn them because it doesn't fit with your idea of what the world should be. They should do it this way or that way, or be cleaner, or be someplace else, because YOU want it that way.

So because the message of the slick tea party supported by millionaires who would dupe you of your rights, is closer to what and how you think things should be, these people should go to washington or china or anywhere but where it's in your face. So you can go back to your existance of drinking a beer in your barka lounger and letting the cool rays of American idol wash over you, allowing you to forget that Congress and big business is sticking it to you 24/7, 52 weeks a year.

Sometimes it takes all kinds, from grandmothers, to union members, to kids from college, to people out of work to anyone willing to join, to make the voice of those who see injustice to be heard. That they haven't decided on a leader for you to hate, or to have a cohesive list of demands you can immediately poo-poo, isn't up to you. It's up to them, and they have a constitutional right to do it that way, or anyway they choose to.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 685
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 9:39:41 AM
Injustice? now thats some funny stuff....the only reason one would call our economic system unjust is if that person hadnt succeded and was an advocate for Socialism or Communism...
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 686
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 12:36:41 PM
Still, too many posts are just folks attacking the straw men erected by their own favorite pundits. None of those posting attacks on the protesters (and on the folks here who are NOT attacking the protesters) has shown that they have themselves GONE to any of the protests, and interviewed any people, nor have any of the pundits that they have quoted done so. All they have done, and continue to do, is to restate old prejudices.

By the way, Ailliss, you are QUITE welcome. I am pleased that I managed to help you as you described.

As for myself, I KNOW that I can't accurately quantify what the bulk of the protesters stand for. I am neither taking their side, nor opposing them, because there IS no accurate information to go on.

The OWS thing is more phenomenon than political movement. Declaring the protesters to be standing for ANYTHING other than being upset about something to do with Wall Street, is absurd, and entirely without merit. No, you can NOT say that they all want handouts, or that they are all opposed to capitalism, or that they all want socialism, or communism, etc.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 687
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 1:18:08 PM

he right for the people to protest government is allegedly enshrined in the US Constitution. yest for many it seems to be a 'real' right only if those protesting people are philosophically aligned with THEIR beliefs


There's no "allegedly" to it. U.S. Courts protect the First Amendment right of speech--particularly political speech--as strongly as anything in the Constitution. The Constitution guarantees that right won't be unfairly abridged by federal or state *government*--not by other people.


right wingers think the Tea Partiers have every right to assemble but OWS does not;


Because conservatives believe in the Constitution, we believe in everyone's right to assemble peaceably and voice their concerns. Those are not absolute rights, though--government can regulate the time, place, and manner of speech and assembly. I'm very happy these people have turned out and shown the country what they stand for.


pick the reverse for left-wingers


I won't dispute that. Many of them combine a smug belief in their moral superiority, a pseudo-religious zeal, and a brownshirt streak. This makes them very intolerant of disagreement. And as their retreaded, discredited New Deal schemes have become less and less persuasive, they've relied more and more on personal attacks.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 688
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 2:57:01 PM
How about this guy? Would love to hear the reactionary demonization of a gent of this stature.
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/161545/retired-philadelphia-police-captain-ray-lewis-arrested-at-ows-calls-nypd-rationale-a-farce/#2
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 689
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 3:16:49 PM
I watched that video and its pathetic, a retired police captain from Philly protesting in New York city, does he think that Philly badge is going to get him a free lunch in the big apple? Im sure he was treated well when at the police station, that whole blue wall thing, he's not going to say if he was treated badly , I notice he didn't mention a thing about what happened to him at the station when he was arrested?

On topic, so what are the protesters protesting about? beside the perceived greed on Wall street and other Corporations? what do they hope to accomplish?

By the way Protesters I notice most of you use " Facebook" and " Google" kind of hypocritical that you're not protesting those companies , its a well known fact that they use " double Irish arrangement/tax loopholes and pays Zero percentage income tax to Uncle Sam, all those huge reserves and revenue and all uncle Sam gets is a portion under the license agreement?

What those companies hiding monies overseas certainly they have enough profits to pay taxes to Uncle Sam and hire a few more people but is anyone saying anything? NOOOOOOOOOO

So its okay to b1tch about Wall Street taking bail out money ( which the government gave them) they should of let them fail like they did with Lehman Bros,Bear Sterns, Washington Mutual and many other loser institutions at least those ass holes on Wall street isnt using the Double Irish arrangement to hide profits.

And I want to thank the morons from Congress on giving those ass holes on Wall Street the bail out money and paying out huge bonuses to the executive board, I for one will never be a shareholder in any institution that took bail out money because the days of making serious profits from Proprietary Trading is over and the days of over leverage is gone, finito, out with bath water what ever term you want to call it

I wish those OWS protesters would protest the morons that sit in Congress half of them (congress) couldn't find their ass with both hands on a good day.

 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 690
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 3:34:12 PM

ex-Marine Scott Olsen is now dead

Please cite your source.

According to Msg 795:

Scott Olsen, vet hurt at Occupy Oakland, discharged
November 15, 2011|Will Kane, Chronicle Staff Writer
(11-14) 07:10 PST OAKLAND — (11-14) 07:10 PST OAKLAND -- The Iraq war veteran who suffered a serious head injury after a violent Occupy Oakland protest last month has been released from the hospital.
Scott Olsen, a 24-year-old Marine Corps veteran, was rushed to the hospital by fellow protesters on Oct. 25 after police raided the Occupy Oakland encampment in the early morning.
Olsen suffered from a fractured skull and had trouble speaking, friends said.
"I'm feeling a lot better, with a long road in front of me," Olsen posted on his Google Plus account Sunday. "After my freedom of speech was quite literally taken from me, my speech is coming back, but I've got a lot of work to do with rehab."


I googled him. I don't see any reference to him being dead. Is he or ISN'T he?
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 691
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 4:01:06 PM
Hahahaha!! Different day, same tripe! The only thing that smells is the same old tripe!

"there are many others like me, that would need to know what "CHANGE"

and as I said, when the group gets a more defined presence, I'm sure leaders will emerge and some idea of what they want will be clear. One that has gathered traction and has over 100,000 signatures, is a movement to eliminate corporate contributions to candidates. Aren't you tired yet of having your laws swayed not by your opinions, but by a limited group of companies having politicians in their hip pockets when it comes to matters of legislation that affect their bottom line and your life?

"what you are saying is Trust ME/us, because we know better"

Hahahaha! Today Congress's super committee failed to achieve negoiated cuts, because the republicans won't raise taxes on the one percent! That fish your holding doesn't look like a marlin, that the one percent fish for! Line of crap indeed! They would rather cut your social security, your medicare, the schools your grandchildren attend, than to take a dime from a guy flying a private jet or making 87 million dollars!

Further more, are you that thick, to believe that this group of people can unilaterally enact laws you would oppose? Congress can't rein in spending, can't raise taxes on the wealthy, can't agree on anything that would be non-partisan but these people are gonna change the laws! Hahahahaha!

Maybe if they're lucky, they can persuade some much needed reform to existing loop holes, maybe get some of the regulation, already on the books to be enforced, so robo-signing foreclosures will stop, but much more than that will take many more people.

As for your distain for weed and the smell of feces, it has been duly noted, on many many occassions. I doubt anybody who has participated in this thread, doesn't know your impression of the 2011 version of Archie Bunker is how you feel.

As for my other pal, who believes they have a "smug belief in their moral superiority" when they never complain about you the citizenry, just those of positions of power, who left us in this mortgage mess, bank bailout, off shoring of jobs, lobbyist dominated legislations. As for the "pseudo-religious zeal" I think you are confusing them with the Bachman's, Perry's who were instructed to run by god, the Cain who is an a minister who ascribes his version of turning the other cheek to trite phrases of "your poor cause your lazy" and the rest of the republican candidates kissing the azzes of the extreme religious right.

As for you brwonshirt comment, I think you should reserve that for the police who keep pepper spraying passive protestors or beating them with clubs, at the behest of the neo-nazi right, who would shred the constitution except for the parts they like or can twist to their own regard.

Oh and 2 more things, those New Deal schemes you love to knock maybe the very reaon your alive today, if one is to listen to the grand and great grandparents who survived that depression. As for personal attacks, I don't see many righty's being pepper sprayed or clubed on TV. In fact in any number of occassions, it was these very same protestors who tried to thwart mobs of masked protestors from wrecking and looting area businesses.

I realize you have a difficulty with presenting the truth, or at least a balanced view, but in the spirit of conciliation let me leave you with a friendly greeting I know you guys embrace "zeig-heil"
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 692
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 4:41:03 PM

I realize you have a difficulty with presenting the truth


Thank you for making my points. I just knew I could count on you. The nasty, personal tone you take--once again--shows your desperation, but I can understand it. When you have no substance, vitriol is all you have to rely on.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 693
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 4:42:06 PM
Myopic much?

So all you got out of what I said, was "zeig heil"? Of course you convienently missed the other poster's reference to "brownshirts", nice!

Nothing changes with you guys, you can, but we can't. Got it.

No sense letting facts get in the way of hatred and a myopic belief. No point arguing with people who can't see the other side.

Why don't you two come back when you have some facts, and not personal dislikes.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 694
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 5:44:46 PM
Who said this:


I won't dispute that. Many of them combine a smug belief in their moral superiority, a pseudo-religious zeal, and a brownshirt streak.


As well as called every liberal democrat a socialist, marxist, communisti who distains the constitution and by extension is un-American...

Could it be this poster???


The nasty, personal tone you take--once again--shows your desperation



but I can understand it.


Some of us understand something different from what you understand.


When you have no substance


When you have no substance you, conservative statists, re-write the constitution thru shoddy supreme court decisions...pffft non live personage for one...citizens united for another....or call everyone who doesn't agree with your "version" of the constitution un-American.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 695
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 5:57:08 PM
To understand why arguing with idiots is useless. Consider the source ot the misinformation.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/poll-fox-news-viewers-less-informed-than-those-who-read-no-news.php
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 696
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 6:08:12 PM
So because people like me that doesn't agree with people like you makes us idiots? Im also not in the 99% crowd does that make in the corrupt crowd too?

By the way I don't watch Fox news, CNN heck I don't watch CBC news, If I do I would rather watch the BBC they have a reputation for telling it how it is.

EDIT, I'm okay with you Oy Vay, you didn't call me a idiot at least. I was referring to the Earth puppy poster above me
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 697
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 6:24:01 PM
OK cdn ice, don't be an azz! You and I have duked it out on this forum before.

You may not see everything as I do or Irish. I could barely make it into the 99% crowd..well maybe not.

But you and I agree on many things, bad management, paid for politicians, and other issues. You may not like OWS, but you are a helluva lot closer to us than those who act like the archie bunkers of the world.

You just committed the ultimate sin anyway, you don't watch FOX new or CNN. That makes you capable of independent thought, not a lockstep drone.

So be careful, you could end up with us, more than against us.
 soicat
Joined: 3/3/2010
Msg: 698
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 6:54:23 PM

I would rather watch the BBC they have a reputation for telling it how it is.


The BBC is also a propaganda machine, alas. Watch Al Jazeera and at least get some balance.
 SoBayNative
Joined: 10/30/2011
Msg: 699
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 7:05:00 PM
Ah yes, the Arab world is famous for it's fair and unbaised reporting. Brilliant.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 700
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 11/21/2011 7:13:24 PM

The BBC is also a propaganda machine, alas. Watch Al Jazeera and at least get some balance.


How in the ^&*() are we supposed to know what is going on anymore. It can be videotaped live in front an audience with a triple blind scientifically controlled studio and there is absolutely no ability to know if what is said is 'true' or not.

We have become a philosophical thought experiment. "If the truth happened would anyone believe it?"

If anyone happened to be paying attention over the last, unknown, amount of years... Everything in the 99% vs the 1% has been part of conspiracy theories for decades. But all that time they were considered crackpots. Now, all of the sudden, the nuts were right? So there really is a 1% of the 1% that controls the fate of nations.

Since everyone is now so absolutely sure the plan is exposed and we know who they are... Who are they? I for one have always loved the conspiracy theories. They have names, dates, linking events and impossible situations that have many consistencies, inconsistencies, and coincidences.

Personally, I like the conspiracy theorists better. At least they wanted to expose those in charge for what they were. Now it’s just a leading towards a witch hunt.

Two seconds of your thought experiment and look up Obama / Hilary Clinton and the Bilderberg’s. They both go in, and out comes the official nominee. Wouldn't that be the 1% that you’re looking for? Not exactly that guy who kicked ass opening laundry mats in urban areas....

Yeah, taxes… that will fix it.
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