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 AUTHOR
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 951
Occupy Wall StreetPage 39 of 53    (13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53)
Couldn't have said it better Ice!!!

Your 100% correct, you don't have a credit score 700 and you can kiss most major things goodbye! Yes they do pull your score for margin accounts! I have an RVP/DVP set up so they never check, but for joe average(who by the way shouldn't have a margin account) good luck.

He11 I took a trip, for a weekend, the hotel wanted a credit card imprint, even though the bill was prepaid. I said OK I'll give you cash, 100, 200, 400, what do you want. The girl looked at me like I was talking greek!

Well I covered the rate thing earlier, but I saw something today that made my hair curl! As I said credit interest is an interesting thing. I can get a short term loan at my bank for 1 1/2% over prime.(I know most can't) But on credit cards, most charge anywhere from 18 to 25%, it seems. BUT we have cards for the credit impaired, it costs 79%!!! plus a hefty fee to open the account.

Now if that doesn't knock your socks off maybe this will. I heard about these things called "pay day" loans, where you borrow an amount of money against your next pay check!(OY VAY!) Now the rates on these vary, but run 300 to 600%!!!!!!!!! Who needs broken nose louey to loan you money, these guys are as bad as any loan shark I head of!!!!!!!!!!

I sit in fascination of how people abuse themselves by putting themselves in such straights. Frankly I frightened by what I see. It used to be you get 1 or 2 new credit card invitations every week, that seems to have stopped for most. I still get 4 or 5 each week. Why bother? I didn't apply 2 weeks ago, 1 month ago, or any of the twelve months prior, I ain't gonna do it.

Now today they are advertising a new TV show called "Virgins" a new reality show! WTH is wrong with people? Why sit on your couch and watch life rather than live it?

Or use your time productively to learn something new. But whatever, they will do what they will do, we are just howling into the wind of, "I want it now, and I want it fast!"

edit to add: another wah wah alert! Reading comprehension shot! "went from up to 23 to 28%" in that sentence means that percentage went from positive to negative value from the purchase price. As for if they rode it out 15 years, who's to say they have 15 years? Who's to say they want to? They may want a short sale and write off the loss(if they have the cash). Jump into the market where prices may appreciate faster. They may know the supply including foreclosures is 20 houses, that will hold down values for ??? years. Since all comps will be based on prices of the most recent sale.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 952
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/1/2011 3:25:02 PM
So a guy I know has a few credit cards...goes to the casino...buys some stuff...pretty soon he's racked up $100k of credit card debt...screws up and misses one payment...that card raises his rate to 24%...then the other card issuers get wind of the missed payment and raise their rates to 24%+...he calls the card companies...they won't budge...he says f you and files bankruptcy...voila no card debt.

BTW...he's a staunch conservative republican.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 953
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/1/2011 4:03:58 PM

When one needs biohazard suits to clean up after their protests, pretty safe to say its over


The occupation of streets and parks may be temporarily over, but the movement isn't over, not by a long shot. The reason for using those biohazard suits to clean up most likely is due to the fact that one of the one percenters has a contract with the mayor or a municipal department to provide the suits.


The Occupoopers got traction ? Really ? Last I heard they are pretty much done.


Done? The goal of raising people's consciousness to the reality in which we live has been accomplished, and the vocabulary that the movement introduced into our society is here to stay. From now on you will have to deal with a much larger segment of the population that are much more aware of the economic disparities.


Camps Are Cleared, but ‘99 Percent’ Still Occupies the Lexicon

By BRIAN STELTER

Most of the biggest Occupy Wall Street camps are gone. But their slogan still stands.

Whatever the long-term effects of the Occupy movement, protesters have succeeded in implanting “We are the 99 percent,” referring to the vast majority of Americans (and its implied opposite, “You are the one percent” referring to the tiny proportion of Americans with a vastly disproportionate share of wealth), into the cultural and political lexicon.

First chanted and blogged about in mid-September in New York, the slogan become a national shorthand for the income disparity. Easily grasped in its simplicity and Twitter-friendly in its brevity, the slogan has practically dared listeners to pick a side.

“We are getting nothing,” read the Tumblr blog “We Are the 99 Percent” that helped popularize the percentages, “while the other one percent is getting everything.”

Within weeks of the first encampment in Zuccotti Park in New York, politicians seized on the phrase. Democrats in Congress began to invoke the “99 percent” to press for passage of President Obama’s jobs act — but also to pursue action on mine safety, Internet access rules and voter identification laws, among others. Republicans pushed back, accusing protesters and their supporters of class warfare; Newt Gingrich this week called the “concept of the 99 and the one” both divisive and “un-American.”

Perhaps most important for the movement, there was a sevenfold increase in Google searches for the term “99 percent” between September and October and a spike in news stories about income inequality throughout the fall, heaping attention on the issues raised by activists.

“The ‘99 percent,’ and the ‘one percent,’ too, are part of our vocabulary now,” said Judith Stein, a professor of history at the City University of New York.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/us/we-are-the-99-percent-joins-the-cultural-and-political-lexicon.html

The complete article is found at the link above.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 954
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/1/2011 4:23:52 PM
Am I the only one to find it amusing [to put it quite kindly] viewing the occupations of some of those here trying to excuse those that conciously facilitated the making of bad loans by trying to blame the largely trusting [fiancial professionals are supposed to be professional after all] and under-educated folks that took advantage of that which was put in front of them? We're all paying for this kwap, and after trillions in recent bailouts how much did Wall Street bonus their schmucks last year?

As countries like Mexico narrow their wealth gap we widen ours. How much has executive compensation increased compared to that of average Americans in recent years?

So what customers are folks like Goldman Sachs gonna set up to fail in the future? You? Me? Us?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 955
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/1/2011 5:22:17 PM
Ya'll are going outside of your talking points. Frank would be disappointed at you. Stay true to the party meme.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/republicans-being-taught-talk-occupy-wall-street-133707949.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Republican Governors Association met this week in Florida to give GOP state executives a chance to rejuvenate, strategize and team-build. But during a plenary session on Wednesday, one question kept coming up: How can Republicans do a better job of talking about Occupy Wall Street?

"I'm so scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I'm frightened to death," said Frank Luntz, a Republican strategist and one of the nation's foremost experts on crafting the perfect political message. "They're having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism."

Luntz offered tips on how Republicans could discuss the grievances of the Occupiers, and help the governors better handle all these new questions from constituents about "income inequality" and "paying your fair share."

Yahoo News sat in on the session, and counted 10 do's and don'ts from Luntz covering how Republicans should fight back by changing the way they discuss the movement.

1. Don't say 'capitalism.'

"I'm trying to get that word removed and we're replacing it with either 'economic freedom' or 'free market,' " Luntz said. "The public . . . still prefers capitalism to socialism, but they think capitalism is immoral. And if we're seen as defenders of quote, Wall Street, end quote, we've got a problem."

2. Don't say that the government 'taxes the rich.' Instead, tell them that the government 'takes from the rich.'

"If you talk about raising taxes on the rich," the public responds favorably, Luntz cautioned. But "if you talk about government taking the money from hardworking Americans, the public says no. Taxing, the public will say yes."

3. Republicans should forget about winning the battle over the 'middle class.' Call them 'hardworking taxpayers.'

"They cannot win if the fight is on hardworking taxpayers. We can say we defend the 'middle class' and the public will say, I'm not sure about that. But defending 'hardworking taxpayers' and Republicans have the advantage."

4. Don't talk about 'jobs.' Talk about 'careers.'

"Everyone in this room talks about 'jobs,'" Luntz said. "Watch this."

He then asked everyone to raise their hand if they want a "job." Few hands went up. Then he asked who wants a "career." Almost every hand was raised.

"So why are we talking about jobs?"

5. Don't say 'government spending.' Call it 'waste.'

"It's not about 'government spending.' It's about 'waste.' That's what makes people angry."

6. Don't ever say you're willing to 'compromise.'

"If you talk about 'compromise,' they'll say you're selling out. Your side doesn't want you to 'compromise.' What you use in that to replace it with is 'cooperation.' It means the same thing. But cooperation means you stick to your principles but still get the job done. Compromise says that you're selling out those principles."

7. The three most important words you can say to an Occupier: 'I get it.'

"First off, here are three words for you all: 'I get it.' . . . 'I get that you're angry. I get that you've seen inequality. I get that you want to fix the system."

Then, he instructed, offer Republican solutions to the problem.

8. Out: 'Entrepreneur.' In: 'Job creator.'

Use the phrases "small business owners" and "job creators" instead of "entrepreneurs" and "innovators."

9. Don't ever ask anyone to 'sacrifice.'

"There isn't an American today in November of 2011 who doesn't think they've already sacrificed. If you tell them you want them to 'sacrifice,' they're going to be be pretty angry at you. You talk about how 'we're all in this together.' We either succeed together or we fail together."

10. Always blame Washington.

Tell them, "You shouldn't be occupying Wall Street, you should be occupying Washington. You should occupy the White House because it's the policies over the past few years that have created this problem."

BONUS:

Don't say 'bonus!'

Luntz advised that if they give their employees an income boost during the holiday season, they should never refer to it as a "bonus."

"If you give out a bonus at a time of financial hardship, you're going to make people angry. It's 'pay for performance.'"
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 956
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/1/2011 6:54:05 PM
"It's over"

Wanna bet!!!!

They still have an occupy in San Francisco, OWS had a march today in union square park in NYC, they have an Occupy in Boston, even with a court order to let them stay.

They have an Occupy in Washington DC, on Park Dept land and they have been told they are welcome to stay.

There is still an Occupy in Oakland, although no campsite.

Today another pepper spray incident in Phoneix(figures!) but it's unclear if there will be a campsite after today. There are probably other cities I didn't mention that have active pieces of this, not sure about Wisconcin.

There are any number of occupy movements on campuses all over the country.

Occupy Raleigh interupted a speech by Stump CEO of Wells Fargo in NC.

There are any number of people moving onto other causes and issues raised by the group. Including the occupied amendment effort to get corporations and unions out of campaign finance by constitutional amendment.

Some are working on the robo signing mess in foreclosures.

There is still an Occupy Atlanta movment.

Yeah, we get it, you want to call these people dirty, lice ridden, drug users and makers of trash. You don't like them, in point of fact, you don't understand them, so like all things most people don't understand, they fear it!

Fear on folks, we ain't goin no where!!!

Or be smart, learn and understand what the movement is about, you may even like it. Maybe more than American Idol!
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 957
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/1/2011 7:16:59 PM

Am I the only one to find it amusing [to put it quite kindly] viewing the occupations of some of those here trying to excuse those that conciously facilitated the making of bad loans by trying to blame the largely trusting [fiancial professionals are supposed to be professional after all] and under-educated folks that took advantage of that which was put in front of them? We're all paying for this kwap, and after trillions in recent bailouts how much did Wall Street bonus their schmucks last year?
I guess that was a dig at me since Im a financier, but so what? and who says I excuse or condone what Wall street did? Im a financier on Main Street not Wall street, Ive never worked on Wall street, could of even had a position set up with Goldman Sachs in the mid 80's but chose a Canadian firm instead, having said that I dont put the entire blame on wall street even though some of them were bailed out, the operative word " SOME".

You can blame Wall Street all you want, Im just more realistic than the majority of 99% protesting , I don't blame Wall Street entirely every one has a hand in this , except My neighbor Dog, the Pope and Halle Berry .

The government will punish those in Goldman, if they have the balls that is, They should fire the entire SEC group and find some folks that has balls and will do their job, these are the same losers that knew about Madoff and did shit, Rating agencies, Legislators you name it .

This nonsense about the poor minority being taken advantage of? a few from crooked mortgage broker/bankers yes , but NOT ALL, but again Ive asked and none of you answered my question, who put a gun to their heads and told them to sign?
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 958
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/1/2011 8:31:23 PM

As countries like Mexico narrow their wealth gap we widen ours.


This wouldn't be because many of their poorest citizens are here illegally would it?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 959
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/1/2011 8:43:25 PM
This wouldn't be because many of their poorest citizens are here illegally would it?


Nope, absolutely wrong...it is because much of our manufacturing is done there in Mexico.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 960
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/1/2011 9:11:59 PM
Nope, absolutely wrong...it is because much of our manufacturing is done there in Mexico.


Really? And yet millions of their citizens still come here looking for work. Odd isn't it?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 961
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/1/2011 9:15:03 PM

Really? And yet as many as 20 million of their citizens still come here looking for work. Odd isn't it?


Did they all come last year, month, week???? How's about something to support such a claim...like some third party validation that actually makes sense????
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 962
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 12:30:40 AM

Did they all come last year, month, week???? How's about something to support such a claim...like some third party validation that actually makes sense????


Yeah, they all came last week. It was a mass exodus from Tijuana.

I'm talking about the ones who are already here. If there are so many jobs in Mexico, thanks to American corporations moving their operations there, that it is actually causing the gap in income disparity between the "haves and have nots" to close, then why are 9-20 million of them still here where the rich & evil corporations (except those who are apparently making life south of the border quite cushy!!) are trampling all over the 99%?
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 963
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 8:23:06 AM
Morning all! Employment numbers a little better today, unemployment fell below 9%!

OK so what happened hmmm:

"They should fire the entire SEC group"

Ahhh, Ice your gonna luv this! Not unlike the rating agency mess, where they are paid by the bankers, who bring them the deal to rate. Then if you don't rate them well, no more biz. Well the SEC hires young and talented professionals, but as you can guess, they get paid bupkis compared to the people they regulate.

Generally not unlike most governmental agencies and the industries they regulate, after a period in government service, they seek a job, IN the industry they regulated!! This is no different at the SEC!

So generally a number of those who regulate wall street, end up with a resume that starts at the SEC and winds up at one of the folks they regulated. So unless your caught with 10 pounds of 100's in your fist, a lot of minor infractions are corrected and forgiven, without citing. The ones like cited earlier in this thread, is the size of a mountain in the Alps, and can't be swept under a carpet. Those they prosecute, but as always "without confirming guilt or innocense".

Then they can exit the SEC after a period or wait out their 20 for pension and still get a 6 digit job on the street. Then use their intimate knowledge of the staff when they left, to curry favor for their new boss!

Interesting enough, labor laws prevent a hard and fast rule about prohibiting anyone from making a living, so you can't force someone to NOT take a job in that industry.


Now onto our pals and Mexico.

So let's look at our southern neighbor without all the hoopla! First the flood of Mexican illegals, stems mainly from 1994 onward when a devaluation in thier currency took place. As recently as 2009, 50% of the population lived at or below the poverty line. 18% can't afford to feed their families.

I think this speaks for itself. While their unemployment rate is estimated at around 6% or a little lower, wages are not all that and a bag of chips.

While I am not condoning illegal immigration, I am saying that if ANY OF YOU, were faced either with your family starving or living in squalor, most of you would do what it took to improve their lot. So maybe I'm wrong, but I think if you were a healthy teen 20 something or 30 something, and positions were reversed, you might consider a trip south of the border to feed your folks, is all I'm saying.

The fact that it is so bad, is also reflected in the rise of the drug cartels and the violence.

For much of the last 16 years since the devaluation, it wasn't a problem. They took jobs most americans didn't want, busboy, lawn worker, migrant farm worker. The menial jobs, then with the construction boom, unscrupulous builders would hire illegals to do the grunt work for $50 to $75 a day(a day being when they picked them up and dropped them off usually near home depot could be 12 hours in the summer).

Now an American would at least want $10 an hour or more, especially skilled labor, so the builder saved at least 20% maybe much more. Also no workers comp in cases of injury. No matching payroll taxes such as SSI.

Now don't kill the messenger, just look at and understand the problem.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 964
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 9:02:46 AM

Not unlike the rating agency mess, where they are paid by the bankers, who bring them the deal to rate. Then if you don't rate them well, no more biz. Well the SEC hires young and talented professionals, but as you can guess, they get paid bupkis compared to the people they regulate.

Generally not unlike most governmental agencies and the industries they regulate, after a period in government service, they seek a job, IN the industry they regulated!! This is no different at the SEC!

So generally a number of those who regulate wall street, end up with a resume that starts at the SEC and winds up at one of the folks they regulated. So unless your caught with 10 pounds of 100's in your fist, a lot of minor infractions are corrected and forgiven, without citing. The ones like cited earlier in this thread, is the size of a mountain in the Alps, and can't be swept under a carpet. Those they prosecute, but as always "without confirming guilt or innocense".

Then they can exit the SEC after a period or wait out their 20 for pension and still get a 6 digit job on the street. Then use their intimate knowledge of the staff when they left, to curry favor for their new boss!

Interesting enough, labor laws prevent a hard and fast rule about prohibiting anyone from making a living, so you can't force someone to NOT take a job in that industry.
Brother Oy Vay, nothing surprises me any more my friend absolutely nothing.
And you wonder why I have no faith in regulators and folks ( the 99%) wants more regulations? yeah that makes sense eh......
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 965
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 11:34:46 AM
Well before responding to wah wah, how about something new?

Let's talk a small but significant case shall we, MF Global. Mr. Corzine former Governor and Senator from NJ, who once headed the evil empire of Goldman Sachs.

Well he and his minions decided to take a flyer on some of that ugly Eurpoean debt to the tune of $6.3 billion. No one is sure of the actual size of the loss, at least I haven't seen it. But it was bad enough for him to resign, and the firm to shut it's doors.

Next thing you know $1 billion or so of customer assets(something these guys are supposed to segregate) have gone missing. Well the regulators a whole kettle of alphabet soup are involved, SEC, CFTC, FASB, FINRA and a few others.

Seems this investment was carried off balance sheet, now where have we heard that before..hmmm, can you say Enron, can you say Lehman! Yes a new poster child for hiding shit, under accounting rules, and now all the alpha bets are pointing fingers at everyone.

The best is next week, we will be treated to Senate testimony from Corzine, who hasn't made a peep since his resignation a few weeks ago. We can expect a litany of "under my right under the 5th amendment..." because criminal charges can be attached to this.

Well onto wah wah!

"I know that you must have gotten a woody"

No you don't, since you don't know shit about me! isn't that the words you use when I tell you something about you? So play your horseshit games with someone else!

"there are over 350,000 that have stopped looking for work"

Now that is a crime! I can't think of anything much worse than this. 350,000 so dispondent that they just give up, or have no way to change it.

But don't you worry, you conservatives will turn those frowns upside down, next week when Newt or one of the other buttholes will accuse these people of being lazy and not wanting work. Just like he did today when suggested children should mop bathrooms in schools!

"I would love nothing more than to have the unemployment rate drop to under 4%"

Your full of shit! You might want that, BUT not until after next November.

You conservatives got to make up your minds. The president doen't make jobs, he can't order anyone to give someone a job. he can propose something, like a stimulus, but even then it must be passed by congress, who says they don't want to, end of story.

You may have a business, lower unemployment maybe good for your business, but frankly outside of you, does anybody give a shit? Why not give a call to any of the large corporations in California, ask for the CEO, ask him why he is not hiring?

Yeah right! He'll tell ya he's too busy counting his millions, having his accountants find loopholes, and shipping jobs offshore cause he can pay $10 a day instead of $10 an hour!

Any government sponsored program should be short term in length, effective enough to carry those jobs until the recession is over. The power to create jobs lies in the private sector, NOT the government.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 966
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 2:10:46 PM
pk, look this maybe strange but lets see if you can grasp the concept.

Maybe I wasn't clear. When PK Inc. is doing badly(not that the corporate world is doing badly with good earnings, and 2 trillion in retained earnings) but U, your little company. You don't hire. Riiiiggghhhhtttt?

Now in those odd instances, where the economy looks like the Titanic(1929 and now) just like FDR did with the WPA, the government can and should(IMO) hire workers to build roads, repair roads and bridges. NO, those are not long term jobs, they have a shelf life, of whatever number of months.

Now when things let up, the economy is doing better, PK Inc is kickin ass, then you hire! Riiiiggghhhtttt?

Those are LONG TERM jobs in the private sector. Then in theory(given the stupid politicians we have, I don't know) the increase in normal tax revenue, can go to pay back the deficit(that was run up, doing that stimulus) and make the government whole.

During that last stimulus, didn't the president, ask for "shovel ready" jobs or projects?

Was it his fault that congress and local officials said "oh!!! A big pork barrell for us to stick our snouts in!"? Was he supposed to leave the white house and go and see everyone of those projects to make sure they were "shovel ready"?

Is he in control(line item veto) of reducing the spending AFTER the projects are complete and the congress decides "oh well, we'll not pay the deficit back, we'll just keep on aspendin!"

BUT all things considered, even if the program was a failure, if only 50,000 got jobs, that's still 50,000 that had work and weren't on unemployment. I agree that price was too high, but the intent was different than the result. It's nice that everyone has 20/20 hindsight, but that doesn't solve the problem.

The basic concept is business won't spend on jobs until people buy their shit. People can't buy their shit WITHOUT a job! Worse is if you build that shit, offshore cause you can get away with paying $10 a day, instead of $10 an hour.

Get it?

edit to add: Ya know one more thing there wah wah. Did your friend with the construction business turn in his buddies using illegals?

Irish, it's always the way, why would they pay americans to do it for $10 an hour or even minimum wage +$1? No they would rather not have the liability and expense, they are too busy paying these guys $50 a day and saving on workers comp!
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 967
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 2:26:43 PM
Oh...OY...California must have gotten boatloads of stimulus money....when I was out there driving from Newport Beach to Palm Springs last year...nearly every turnpike had construction being done on them and an Economic Recovery Act sign announcing where the money came from to do the construction...

A friend of mine took me on a boat tour thru Newport harbor....15000 sq foot palaces with 120 foot motor yachts in front...and the only ones around were all the mexican help....While I was playing golf at Pelican Hills and Monarch Beach I looked at all the palaces surrounding the golf courses...looking at all the new construction...and the funniest thing I noticed...the golf course grounds crew-all mexican....the maintainance help bustling around all the palaces-mexican...the workers building the newest palaces-mexican...

It seems that the bastians of the American dream on the California gold coast only hire mexicans.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 968
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 3:03:16 PM
Ok Paul, what's the freakin answer???????

"What you don't get, AND NO SURPRISE THERE"

So I guess I shouldn't call names but you can make snide remarks, is that it bunky?

So what you are saying is that we either live with the republicants way, pass a RX bill, that we pay for indefinitely, for their pals in the big pharma industry. Or live with a chicken or egg situation, which mean I won't hire until I sell, and you won't buy until I hire?

So you have "ALL" the answers, so what would be better?

Those 350,000 your heart bleeds for will go on welfare, which lasts a year(as far as rent goes) then live on a few hundred a month and food stamps. Maybe they should go live under an overpass that's half built, right?

SO WHAT'S THE ANSWER???????

"DO MORE OF THE SAME"

Yeah, I guess, maybe learn from your lesson and do it better! Or have it your way and do NOTHING!!!

You will read(I predict), xmas season ain;t all that and a bag of chips about poor sales for christmas, and what sales they did make, will be offset by a rise in shoplifting. Or a good part of it.

I'm sorry you don't get it, no answer or doing nothing is NO ANSWER AT ALL!!
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 969
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 4:21:35 PM
Wow, this thread is up to 46 pages now. I've been following this since the start. I've been noticing a trend.....

I am wondering if POF is a cross section of political views? I mean as far as liberal/conservative? If it is a true representation of the opinions and views of folks in the US, Canada, Great Britain then what does that mean? The OWS movement is worldwide. And if so, what about all the other blogs and sites that are politically opinion oriented?

I mean, I've read soooo many opinions here. And, I can see the point of many posters here too. Both conservative and liberal. I've also noticed that most are OK with things as long as "It's not their ox being gored". Or, Not in my backyard. Or, pointing fingers at foggy,institutionally run entities that are running the world. The Government, Corporations, Wall St.

So, if we can hash over all these opinions and we can all point fingers of blame in every direction why cant we use the internet to find problems, that a majority of folks do indeed agree are problems....Discuss solutions.....Then fix the problems?

I'm far from a computer expert. I know there is also a lot of crappola online but it seems a lot of people realize there are problems on both sides of any issue. It seems we're having a hard time agreeing upon what is best for all....And no, I am not in favor of ditching my American right to individuality or privacy....But the very fact that I am writing this on a site connected to the "Worldwide web" means this "Occupy" movement is indeed worldwide. The planet is shrinking and our cyber abilities can either make us smaller or uplift us...... We are as people gaining the technological ability to to change lives for the better, or not....All we need to do is agree which path we'll take....... Maybe a "worldwide" site connected to our world govts.?Any that would care to participate, at least. People could offer solutions to problems if they had any.

Hey, at least it's an idea that may help. Of course, there are those that think any Govt. is the problem..... Gee, what else can everyone in the US or most anywhere agree upon? Usually that our Govt's can use some work. Or, if they're tyrannies that they need to be abolished.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 970
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 4:58:29 PM
stilllookin, an interesting idea and observation.

Perhaps a thought for a different "off topic" thread, referencing this one. I would be happy to join the discussion.

The only problem I see with your solution or idea is the parachocial nature of man. For the last 2000 years, we have schooled in nations, different languages, different customs,different forms of government, different religions. We as a world society tend to view things through the myopic view of "us". Whatever us that would be, would always tend to see things through the narrow lens of our focus.

A case in point is the EU. 17 nations, 17 different languages, 17 varying forms of government, 17 cultures and the problem 1 currency. There the problem of culture seems to be at odds end with solutions. The Germans with a strong work ethic, a total focus on the job at hand. Compared to the different ways the Greeks, Italians, Spaniards approach and view life.

It would almost seem Germans live to work, while those others work to live. This is not meant to leave out the other countries that span the spectrum between the extremes.

The jury is still out on this recent development. Somewhat stylized a little like the USA, with seperate states and a central government, they have instead embraced seperate everything except currency and somewhat easier border crossings in the region. Well those are my initial thoughts anyway.

"The answers are that it needs to be made easier for business to expand to hire and to manufacture."

A wah wah answer if ever there was one! We could float an aircraft carrier through the holes in that one!

What possible issues is there with hiring? There's literally millions out of work, at all levels of skill, education and ability. As I mentioned earlier corporations are flush with retained earnings, with the exception of what they are using to bilk the stockholders out of money through buybacks, to increase the value of executive stock options, I don't see a problem for them there in expansion.

There are loads of empty factories all over the country, in fact many states will even give companies free land, or subsidize a corporate relocation, through regional grants or tax abatements.

The only easy business seems to want is less regulation, less taxes. So I guess you propose a return to a love canal incident or PCP's in the hudson river again. yeah that worked so well for us the last time. Nothing like the view of spontaneous combustion in the moonlight or fish that glow in the dark.

Or perhaps less taxes, so they have more profits to retain and not have to hire a soul. That way they can rest assured next years stock options will be more lucrative than this years!

Would you care to elaborate on that wah wah answer with specifics?
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 971
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 6:10:50 PM
Mr Oy, post 1146. I definitely agree with you that other countries all have their unique way of doing things. Sometimes these differences can lead to arguements on a worldwide basis. Heck, the good old USA is a perfect example of a worldwide mix incorporated into one world powerhouse. The US is one of the mightiest nations exactly because it has a piece of all the worlds people.Our system has it's drawbacks for sure.We almost never agree, but are free not to. When you consider it's united a world of people into one unit that is working together that says we must be doing some things right..... Immigrants think so, so do I......I say, let's export it.

I feel if we can expand our manufacturing throughout the world we ought to also expand our environmental,labor, and fair trade laws. Not one sided trade that benefits just a few but that would benefit people worldwide. Corporations are profit oriented for sure. That is capitalism and free trade. Many corporations are now holding their home states hostage by threatening to move overseas unless the state agrees to large tax breaks. This erodes the tax base and adds to the deficit. Not to mention what they expect their American workers to give up. We're being undercut by folks worldwide who make substantially less per hour as workers than us. Our Govt. needs to start protecting it's own workers with legislation and I think the OWS folks are down with this.

I guess what I'm saying is we need a worldwide standard of Labor, environmental, and free trade law. If you wanted to trade with us you need to adhere to our laws. I know we have nafta and other such agreements. However, these agreements deal with companies and not the people working for and producing these companies products.

Having a standard for worldwide worker treatment and pollution and safety would help to level the playing field.If this were the case maybe companies would be more hesitant to leave the USA.The main constant in this equation is not just profit but PEOPLE. People producing the products, shareholders [people]profiting from the shares of the company, and yes people buying the products. It's almost as if corporations have forgotten that people remember who wronged them. Do it enough and maybe folks will just choose not to patronize offending companies.The fact that our leaders signed these one sided "free trade"agreements makes a lot of folks feel like they've been kicked in the teeth.If nothing else at least OWS is drawing attention to what has been happening.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 972
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 6:17:35 PM
“Most people standing up to speak were troubled” by legislation to extend the payroll tax cut, said Representative Jeff Flake, Republican of Arizona. “There was a divide between the rank and file and the leadership. There was a lot of disquiet in that room.”

In December 2010, Congress temporarily reduced the employee’s share of the Social Security payroll tax by 2 percentage points, to 4.2 percent of wages. If Congress does nothing, the rate will revert to 6.2 percent in January.

Mr. Flake said, “We should not be extending the payroll tax holiday unless we have the courage to reform entitlement programs as well.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/us/politics/payroll-tax-exposes-rift-in-house-republican-caucus.html

So, the GOP feels that continuing the tax holiday for the middle class must be balanced...yet, there was no balancing when the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy were continued....the party of NO continues to say NO...at the expense of the middle class.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 973
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 6:52:01 PM
Here is a great question why is the "mainstream" liberal media not reporting about the OWS shooter?


White House shooter OWS member

The identity of the man responsible for loosing a few shots at the White House last week has been made public by the D.C. police but one little fact is being buried by every news report about this guy. He is linked to the Occupy movement. Yet the media refuses to make the connection explicit. Imagine how the media would be wailing if the guy was a Tea Partier! But that this shooter was part of the Occupy movement seems somehow unimportant to the Old Media.


http://www.drudge.com/news/150465/white-house-shooter-ows-member

As drudge reports points out if this was a TEA party member it would plastered everywhere and there would be cries to ban the movement.
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 974
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 7:23:50 PM

White House shooter OWS member

The identity of the man responsible for loosing a few shots at the White House last week has been made public by the D.C. police but one little fact is being buried by every news report about this guy. He is linked to the Occupy movement. Yet the media refuses to make the connection explicit. Imagine how the media would be wailing if the guy was a Tea Partier! But that this shooter was part of the Occupy movement seems somehow unimportant to the Old Media.
http://www.drudge.com/news/150465/white-house-shooter-ows-member

Unable to distinguish between an unsubstantiated blog entry and factual news story much?
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 975
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/2/2011 7:33:25 PM
WOW!! Just WOW!! That was a he11uva post stilllookin. Just one small mistake to my mind, I'm not a Mr., just a guy, who was very lucky, and made good. I'm no better than the guy who sweeps the streets, works the lathes, or does carpentry.

Yes in part your more than right. OWS or the movement has drawn attention to many of these issues. The fact is, several members in our little community of countries have said, the movement is there, sometimes ignored, sometimes without notice, BUT it's there!! It's a start.

Let's take a moment to understand what has happened in our large world. As communication and travel advanced, places opened up that were before the backwaters of the world. Places where life's value was measured in far less monetary terms than here. Limited forms of education, made them the raw power, that here we use machines for.

Places like in India where they actually haul huge ships ashore and break them up for scrap, BY HAND, using only a hammer! India is also a place where english is a second language, so call center work can be done. Also a place where the smarter can do computer coding. Ahhh, but here's the rub, in India the cost of living, the cost of labor is so much less than ours, that it behoves some companies to relocate entire units of companies for a 1/10 of the cost.

Take China as well, they had no infrastructure at all 20 or 25 years ago. No roads, bridges or telephone lines. The latter was the best for them, instead of all that bricks and mortar, miles of cable and switching stations, all they needed due to advancement in communication, was a power source, cell towers and a computer. Then BANG! They have phone service all over the country.

Just examples of what we are up against.

Let's look at the fore-runner of OWS. The people who every few years show up at remote places around the globe, to protest the WTO. The World Trade Organization, pirates by any other name. It was under their not so gentle prodding that things like NAFTA came to be.

Why build it there when you can build it here, for 1/100 of the cost? A bean counters dream, based on a short sighted goal and an even shorter sighted end result! The short sighted goal was pure profit. The shorter sighted end, that we face now is that who will buy those products, if we don't have jobs?

But did that stop anybody in upper management from embracing it? He11 no! Did anyone company think that every other company would follow them around the globe in a never ending, chase for profits?

Now there comes another view of the issue. In 1947 we invented the UN, to try and settle country disputes. To possibly establish what you envisioned, world wide standards of living and possibly government standards of people treatment. But we have the rights of Soverign domain, each countries right to set their own standards.

Don't forget, what we have here is unique. One man, one vote and a bill of rights. For many in this world, it is a dictator or a sham of an election that leads to a small group of men, running the lives of millions. If you had nothing yesterday, and today you have $10 for the day, which would you prefer?

While I hardly wish to throw cold water on your idea, I think we need to put our own house in order before we can export to the world such radical ideas of fair play, and a decent wage when no such thing existed before for them.

Now what I will say probably will sound trite. In the last 25 years, we have moved to an era of "me"! He11 you see it on here! You see it on here every day, why don't "I" get any emails, why don't they like "me"? We now have Facebook, where you can run your own little TV station about you and your likes. We have Tweeter where you can update your activites moment by moment. We have episodes of the Kardisians, who seem to me just some spoiled rich kids from California. We have American(or for that matter other countries examples)Idol where you can become an instant star!

24 years ago when I did a bit part in a movie, how was I to know that a line from that very movie would become the harbinger of things to come "Greed is good." became not only a household phrase, but a very way of life for some.

Gone are the "we are union" or we are... The american dream of working together for a common goal has given way, to a generation of "I want mine, the he11 with the rest of you"

I'm really not sure what we can do, to get back to that.

And that my friend is where we need to go. To go forth from greed to solidarity and working as a team. It even shows in our sports. Guys trash talking, or who gets the biggest contracts.

JMHO
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