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 AUTHOR
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 1026
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History
Occupy Wall StreetPage 42 of 53    (13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53)
I completely agree that the rape analogy is totaly off base. It's not even close. If waking up in the morning and finding out your "mate" is really ugly or is in some way physically disappointing and then screaming rape is actually rape, then the analogy works.

The people I feel sorry for are the ones who still own their houses, who have lost their equity and who still make the payments. They're the ones being drug down by the irresponsible ones. Don't for a second think most of the people who have lost their homes weren't blinded by the shiny new kitchens and bathrooms the bank said they have the ability to own.


You don't need a law degree to use a lawyer or a medical degree to use your doctor, do you?


That would be the best case scenario. Short of a degree, you should know everything about your situation otherwise you leave yourself open to shenanigans. I've used enough lawyers and spent enough time researching now that I instruct them and they actually prefer it. I once had food poisoning and was diagnosed with chrone's disease, cancer and cholera. This is what common sense and a bit of research will help you with. Not even research. Just common sense. Bad shell fish at a bad restaurant. Let's wait on that surgery for just a second or two.

I became a real estate agent because I didn't trust other people with large purchases. Then I became a mortgage agent for the same reason. You can't deny that people acted blindly, acted out of greed and stupidity when signing mortgage papers. It's just that those granite counter tops were so nice.
 lotustemple
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 1027
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/6/2011 9:32:24 AM
A stupid person(for want of a better word) CAN be misled(RE agent), a mortgage broker can outright lie, nobody is watching him.


The broker can lie all he wants, if someone isn't smart enough to take a contract that will be dictating much of their life for a long long time to an attorney first before signing, then that person has just learned a very valuable lesson. Isn't that what life is about anyway? Growth. And yes he/she has the responsibility to find an adequate attorney. We have brains that can be used.

Just like OWS, we are being called to grow up. We need new models and to stop complaining, it's time to create a new paradigm. How do you think it should look?
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 1028
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/6/2011 10:06:08 AM

You north of our border, have a different attitude, different practices and standards. I've been told many times, it's harder to buy RE in Canada, than the USA. That is a major reason, the blowback, did not hit Canada.
Partially true, its harder to buy RE in Canada vs the US. Having said that Ive bought and sold RE in Florida ( thanks to my Uncle relocating there) but still I had to learn the rules, I wouldn't take any recommendation from any Realtor, I had to do my home work.


In this country, the RE broker's fiduciary responsibility is to the seller, NEVER the buyer.(strike one) The mortgage broker(a neccessity for those without adaquate assets or income) is not licensed in any way. It's as simple(or was) to go down to Kinko's and print some business cards and bingo! your a mortgage broker, and again have no standards or rules.(strike two) Many, many people utilize lawyers recommended by RE agents, these are RE factories, who's primary legal work is closings, it's their bread and butter. If this group of agents, reccomends the same lawyer, he can as easily fall in line, despite his fiduciary responsibility to clients.
That is true, but it comes down to basic common sense, Im not going to or will ever take recommendations from a Realtor to use this lawyers, appraiser, home inspector etc in any country, Im aware of who they work for and what Fiduciary duties they CLAIM to have.



You know your lawyer, you trust him(her) right? You've used them for a while, and in different situations. I have the same thing(unfortunately, fuking lawyers!), although I respect them, they do tend to complicate life down here in the most litiguous society in the world. Now I don't know about Canada's lawyers, but here we've had our share of ones who would bend the rules.
same thing here we have idiot and crooked lawyers , but we have a saying up here, when in doubt sue ( litigation ) is a wonderful thing, If I have a lawyer that messed up and cost me money, his ass belongs to me.

I tell all my clients if you're going to get into real estate, get to know a nasty litigation lawyer/attorney, because if any one in the Real estate industry fu cks, screws you, perpetrates fraud you name it, then you can sue his or her ass and nail it your wall as a trophy.

Yeah I trust my lawyers because they've earned it, best advice Ive ever received was to find 3 lawyers bring them the same documents let them review it and see what they say, and you will see what type of lawyer you have ..

I Know clients that dealt with the Country wides, Washington mutual's etc, but was smart enough to have a lawyer/attorney look out for their best interest and NONE of them accepted any recommendation from any realtor, mortgage broker/banker etc.

It just goes to show you that some People( borrowers) are just as greedy as the broker, bankers, NOT all, but a lot were greedy and paid a huge price.

Never get into something you don't understand, I don't care if you live in America, Canada, the UK, China or Xanadu , Ive invested in the stock market and guess what? I wont touch any resources stocks or companies because I don't understand the industry, I have a friend who is a C.F.O of a company and she is teaching me about the industry her hubby is a accountant that works in that field and I'm slowly beginning to understand but not enough to put any money into it to me that is speculating and gambling, it doesn't appeal to me.

This is why Ive been saying about MOST of these OWS protesters, who is to blame for your financial situation or lack of financial knowledge? Im not talking about the guy or gal who works hard to make ends meet , ended up losing their jobs because of idiot management, has a mortgage, doesn't live on credit cards, does all the right things and got screwed in the end, yeah those folks has the right to be upset and demand changes and I would stand and fight with them, not the ass hole that gambled, speculated and lost and wants to take a chunk of others that didn't do what they did and wants the wealth redistributed to them when they dont deserve it.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 1029
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/6/2011 1:06:55 PM

Sorry... the VAST majority were subprime loans bought with ZERO down and even the escrow costs were added into the original loans so many walked into new homes with very little ( if any) out of pocket expense. No need for mortgage insurance because we will get your 20% down with another loan and simply call it a second mortgage.

How soon we forget, remember the NO DOC loans ???? You were not obligated to offer ANY financial information what so ever to back up your so called income amount OR assets.... and the feds backed up these loans all thanks to Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. Sure, maybe a very few ignorant people were talked into it but the VAST majority knew exactly what they were doin whether they could afford it or not. They took a gamble and lost..

You might want to put the pipe down there. First, it's almost 2012, not 2008 anymore. So that "vast majority" (snicker) that you're talking about - well, anyway, the people who couldn't afford their mortgages because they didn't have jobs lost their houses 3 years ago.

The ones who are paying their mortgages despite owing more than the home is worth are people who got screwed by the shenanigans the banks were playing.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 1030
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/6/2011 1:23:58 PM
I think was talking about Prior to the Crash of 2008 , and its still going on today, people are still losing their home, and most of it due to here it is ... SUB PRIME MORTGAGES, repeat .... SUB PRIME MORTGAGES, those that were dumb enough to get into and gambled and lost well no sympathy from me, its too bad so sad, read the fine print next Rumpelstiltskin.... Mind you lot of folks took advantage of sub-prime and they are not hurting so it works both ways.

Those that want to play Donald Trump in real estate should of learned the game first.



The ones who are paying their mortgages despite owing more than the home is worth are people who got screwed by the shenanigans the banks were playing
If they are paying their mortgages and they didn't lose their homes and the values of the home dropped, how is that the fault of greedy bankers/fraudulent bankers/brokers? I don't see the connection.

Yeah there are folks that bought and put down 20% of their own money and the asset declined, but they still have a roof over their head and has to hold on to it longer, its not like those that bought with zero percent down and over leveraged themselves hoping to make huge profits and lost, that is what he is talking about.

We are Not talking about the hardworking honest individual(s) who did it the RIGHT way, didn't over leverage and ended up losing their jobs because of market down turn, idiot and corrupt management and the penises with ears on Wall Street in bed with the lobbyist, politicians and other losers on capital hill.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 1031
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/6/2011 1:25:02 PM

You might want to put the pipe down there. First, it's almost 2012, not 2008 anymore. So that "vast majority" (snicker) that you're talking about - well, anyway, the people who couldn't afford their mortgages because they didn't have jobs lost their houses 3 years ago.


Wrong. Subprime forclosures are an ONGOING & CONTINIUOS menace. Those who lost out in 2008 were the weakest of the weakest. Those who were able to fend off the initial crunch are falling systematically ...even today. Its not even halfway over yet.


Foreclosure Crisis Isn’t Even Halfway Over, Analysis Finds
By ANN CARRNS
November 30, 2011, 2:53 pm


A new analysis suggests that the tide of home foreclosures isn’t going to recede soon.

The report from the Center for Responsible Lending, “Lost Ground, 2011,” finds that at least 2.7 million mortgages loaned from 2004 through 2008, or about 6 percent, have ended in foreclosure and that nearly 4 million more home loans (roughly 8 percent) from the same period remain at serious risk.

Put another way, “The nation is not even halfway through the foreclosure crisis,” says the report, which analyzed 27 million mortgages made over the five years.


More at:
http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/30/foreclosure-crisis-isnt-even-halfway-over-analysis-finds/?ref=foreclosures

 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 1032
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/6/2011 3:15:47 PM

Why don`t you be a little more precise and specific and tell us all here exactly what these shenanigans were

Again, put down the pipe. If you don't know what the banks did then you've been stoned for the last 3 years.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 1033
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/6/2011 4:00:31 PM
Well we have some new info on some of the Wall Street folks!

Seems Mr. Corzine did a little lobbying of his own, last year(2010) and managed to keep a new rule from going forward into force. The rule now called the MF Global rule, has to do with what you can invest customer money in, while holding it as cash, acting as clearing agent.

One of the excluded items was soverign foreign debt, that was questionable in value. I'm sure all can get their google on, and check out the rule.

Seems CFTC chairman Gary Gensler, said in early november of this year, tht "he was not participating in the investigiation of futures broker MF Global", the firm Corzine headed and resigned from, when it bellied up. Seems they made a rather large investment in bad soverign debt(6.3 Billion) during this period.

Now this rule would have gone into effect in 2010, under the watchful eye of the CFTC.

Gee, I wonder who would have the power to stop such a rule at the CFTC?

Seems as well neither Mr. Corzine or Mr. Gensler are talking much, to ANYBODY!!

Oh and one last thing, both worked at Goldman Sachs at the same time and held prominent positions. Ain't life grand!
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 1034
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/6/2011 4:36:07 PM
hahahaha



Corzine has participated in meetings of the secretive Bilderberg Group, a network of the world’s leaders in the fields of politics, business, and banking, from 1995–1997, 1999, 2003 and 2004.

http://goo.gl/O8shI


The tin foil hat crowd can be entertaining. Just a few leaders of industry getting together for a little bit of talks about what’s up in the world today. No big deal. Just a friendly little get together between government leaders and business men. No problem... Don't really make any decisions on public policy... Just hanging with some buddies.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 1035
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 7:23:06 AM
Gawd, I didn't blather, I stated as clearly as I could, you in California, CHOSE to embrace Prop 13!

When the fixed side of the average tax equation is low, and the variable is high(income and capital gains) you will be subjected to short falls when your state encounters a recession. If you don't understand, you don't! It means that since Californians CHOSE to pass costs to the state, but not pay for them entirely with property taxes.

It's not a question of too low, it's a question of unbalanced. You can't change taxes or tax laws like shirts, you know that. So if the variable part of your state's income varies with economic conditions, you will be short money to pay the bills. THAT is what the current recession is doing to you.

As for the unions, I'm sorry, I don't know their contracts. But what I have read is about a number of officials making extremely good money. That one town manager who was making 700K for a tiny town. That would upset me more, than some teacher making an extra 5K.

SOME of the only Californians? How about everybody up north, in San Jose and Palo Alto? They seem to be getting paid quite well in silicon valley. The problem there is they get paid millions or tens of millions, but get it in stock!

The only way that gets taxed is if they sell the stock. They can borrow against it, even write off the interest and pay LESS taxes than california needs. In the meantime they own 10 or 15 million dollar houses they are undertaxed on, in the sense it is too cheap compared to what they would pay in other states were the tax system more balanced.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 1036
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 8:51:15 AM

Gawd, I didn't blather, I stated as clearly as I could, you in California, CHOSE to embrace Prop 13!

When the fixed side of the average tax equation is low, and the variable is high(income and capital gains) you will be subjected to short falls when your state encounters a recession. If you don't understand, you don't! It means that since Californians CHOSE to pass costs to the state, but not pay for them entirely with property taxes.




43 of 50 states have a budget deficit in this recession. California is #4 on the list of budget deficits in the US. behind Nevada, New Jersey & Texas. These states are far ahead of California in percentage of deficit spending. Proposition 13 seems to have nothing to do with it.

If it did, California would be #1. It's not even close.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 1037
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 1:11:09 PM
My point was and is the same, if you are expecting $20 in revenue, as a state, $10 from property taxes, $10 from income and capital gains. Then you plan your budget accordingly, in a recession, you end up with a shortfall, due to a drop in income tax, due to unemployment and high earners making less.

With higher property taxes, lower income taxes, you will still get a shortfall, but the difference will be less. While California may not be the top of the list, they are none the less near the top of the list, due to this logic and approach.

As for the rest of the white noise you post, who cares?

The city manager, maybe just the one position, but over how many years? If he was paid a fair amount(what's fair? I dunno maybe 100K) that would make up for a lot of the difference. Much more so than 20 union employees who are union.

How many rich people do you know, who live in normal tract housing? Don't believe me, check out the houses in or near Palo Alto, where they live. I doubt Michael Dell, Bill Gates and the boys of google, microsoft and FB, live in shacks! But as usual, wah wah knows better than I.

My point on income was simply and will always be, rich people have more options than a wage per hour guy, or some salaried person, union or not. If part of their compensation is stock, they can borrow against it, without a state income tax, taxable event.

As for my comment on union workers, how much are they paid? You would know, I don't follow california contracts, they don't affect me or the investments I make. What do they pay a teacher, what is the highest rate of hourly workers? I know the scam some are capable of, loading up on OT, just before they retire(cops do this), I don't know if that applies to the ordinary worker for a county, state or municipality.

If you can't follow the reasoning, then your argument is bogus, if you can't supply details, again your argument is not actual. I'm sure California has a shortfall in their pension system, I never looked. Funny as I mentioned earlier, NY state has a fully funded pension and it has as many workers as Cally does I'm fairly sure.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 1038
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 6:19:44 PM

6. If the grievances are not redressed and solutions implemented within a reasonable time, the National General Assembly will reconvene electronically or in person and organize a new independent political party to run for all of the 435 House seats and 33 Senate seats in 2014.


Wait... I thought it was the corporations... I thought the tea party proved that once it was funded it was corrupt. I thought the problem was that government no longer represents people and only represents corporations.

ugggg... Hypocritical much?


Sorry, can only respect the 99% now if they do nothing. They were so against the political process and how the country is designed to work that joining it can only mean a total sell out of ideals and corruption.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 1039
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 7:03:37 PM

They were so against the political process and how the country is designed to work that joining it can only mean a total sell out of ideals and corruption.

That's what you took from it?

Just out of curiousity, where did you get that idea? The whole point was that the political process has been corrupted - unless you think "how the country is designed to work" is that corporations get to write the laws that govern them.

That's such a bizarre statement that I just had to comment on it.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 1040
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 8:17:20 PM

I never looked. Funny as I mentioned earlier, NY state has a fully funded pension and it has as many workers as Cally does I'm fairly sure.


We can see that you never looked at it.

California has nearly 2 million public employees, compared to roughly 1 million for New York.

California has just about2 TIMES the population of New York, & roughly 2 TIMES the number of public employees, but has 3 TIMES the pension cost of New York.

http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/initiatives_detail.aspx?initiativeID=85899358839

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California's average public employee salary & retirement benefit is at least 10% higher than New York.

http://www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2007/0305stlocal.htm


I'm sure California has a shortfall in their pension system,


California ranks 15th out of 50 states for highest funding percentage at 81%. The US average is 78%.

35 states have worse funding percentage numbers than California.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 1041
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History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 9:54:37 PM

Just out of curiousity, where did you get that idea? The whole point was that the political process has been corrupted - unless you think "how the country is designed to work" is that corporations get to write the laws that govern them.

That's such a bizarre statement that I just had to comment on it.


And? You agreed with me and that’s bizarre?

The .99%ers believe that entire system is corrupt. That means if they join they will be corrupt as they would then be part of the system. It's basic liberal hypocrisy... Everyone else is flawed but 'me' and everyone else is just 'doing it wrong'.
 Viper1E
Joined: 11/30/2011
Msg: 1042
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 10:28:42 PM

Occupy Wall Street


Works!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/07/us/occupy-wall-street-job/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Ex-Occupier now holds Wall Street job
By Chris Knowles and Raelyn Johnson, CNN
updated 9:00 PM EST, Wed December 7, 2011

New York (CNN) -- The occupiers of Wall Street have been portrayed by some as radicals, young kids without focus, ne'er-do-wells who'd do anything but get a job. But one woman used her time in at Zuccotti Park differently, and as a result she has gone from Occupy Wall Street to occupying an actual office on Wall Street.

In the gathering of the so-called 99%, Tracy Postert had no idea she would be the one who would be working for the 1%.

"There were some days it was a carnival, or lots of music, drumming, costumes, marching, protesting," said Postert, describing the weeks she spent demonstrating at the park in downtown Manhattan.

Frustrated with the economy, Postert says she jumped right into the Occupy Wall Street movement -- all in -- banging drums and washing paint- and dirt-covered sidewalks.

She sounds like the protester stereotype, but she isn't; she has a doctorate in biochemistry.

In the past few years, the biochemist said, she had found herself at times unemployed or underemployed. Until a few weeks ago she decided to change her protest sign to a "Job Wanted" sign and hunkered down in Zuccotti Park with a handful of résumés.

"Passers-by would say, 'Get a job,' and I didn't have a really good response to that," Postert told CNN.

"I wanted to say, 'Well, I'm trying to get a job,' but you know you can't really prove it." Postert said. "So I said, why don't I make a sign (and prove) that I am actively looking for a job?"

Within two days, she said, someone spotted her. They exchanged e-mails, and an offer followed.

That someone was a top executive at a Wall Street financial firm -- in other words, the enemy.

"It might sound like it's a fish-out-of-water story -- (round) peg in a square hole -- but it's really not," said Wayne Kaufman, a market analyst at John Thomas Financial.

"She was standing there. She had her sign, she had her résumé, and I just passed by her and I chatted with her just for a brief few seconds. And she was obviously an intelligent person," Kaufman said.

"The résumé spoke for itself, it was very impressive," he said. "So, I sent her an e-mail the next day and ... she responded almost immediately.

"I asked her if she wanted to come in for an interview; she said yes. I told her what I had in mind for her according to her skill set, and the rest is just history."

For now, Tracy is researching early stage biotech companies for John Thomas Financial. She says she plans to take a test that would allow her to become a broker, and thus a full-fledged member of the 1%. So what are her former Occupy Wall Street compatriots saying?

"I have been accused of being a traitor to both sides. Some people are saying that the whole time I was at Occupy Wall Street I was really a Wall Street insider," says Postert.

She said she plans on keeping her sign. She pledged to protest again when she finds something she feels is worth protesting.
***

Leave the protests to the ones that don't get a paycheck Buttercup...

Just sayin'..
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 1043
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 10:38:02 PM
This is so bizarre. Is that really the spin that the right wing media is putting out? That the protest is that democratic participation is the problem?

I know you have to believe some pretty weird shit to be an American right winger, but this is so stupid on the face of it that I can't believe you could actually post it.

For the record, democracy isn't the problem. It's the lack of democracy that's the issue. The US is becoming an oligarchy - and that's a bad thing. Increasing disparity of wealth is just a symptom of the problem.
 Viper1E
Joined: 11/30/2011
Msg: 1044
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 10:48:37 PM

This is so bizarre. Is that really the spin that the right wing media is putting out? That the protest is that democratic participation is the problem?


CNN? Right wing..???

And your last drug screening was when?
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 1045
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/7/2011 10:52:02 PM

This is so bizarre. Is that really the spin that the right wing media is putting out? That the protest is that democratic participation is the problem?


Did you get lost in the past 40 something pages?

Or are you just conveniently forgetting that the 1% is the wealthiest people they were protesting and how they have manipulated the system to unfairly profit from them... or did you understand it to be something different...

BTW it’s total BS (in case you don't understand my right wing sensibilities) the 1% are very well defined and they are not only the mega wealthy. They are government officials. I can show you a list of names in case you actually had a question. It changes every year. Those special people with the right kind of influence, although some have been there forever.

However, most of the focus was on ‘wall st. and the banks’ but the real message was the unfair influence of corporations on GOVERNMENT.

Did I miss something important?
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 1046
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/8/2011 6:03:15 AM

This is so bizarre. Is that really the spin that the right wing media is putting out? That the protest is that democratic participation is the problem?

I know you have to believe some pretty weird shit to be an American right winger, but this is so stupid on the face of it that I can't believe you could actually post it.

For the record, democracy isn't the problem. It's the lack of democracy that's the issue. The US is becoming an oligarchy - and that's a bad thing. Increasing disparity of wealth is just a symptom of the problem.
Oh I see, says the left wing socialist loving capitalist haters , so your solution is to strip the wealth of the 1% and distribute among the 99%? yeah okay... whats on tap today?

By the way America isn't a democracy its more a republic ,but that is another topic. Democracy okay, so breaking the law to protest is okay?
 VGLGuySksFun
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 1047
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/8/2011 6:51:58 AM
"the fact that the public unions drove California to the brink of BK"

come on Paul... who negotiated and accepted the union contracts? Answer... the governments and the business... so they are just as culpible for the outcome as the unions. Everyone has to accept responsibility for the outcome.

How about we simply revert to Nazi Germany and blame the Jews? Or perhaps we could blame the blacks? Hey i know, let's blame all illegal immigrants trying to escape abject poverity in Latin America... it's all their fault!
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 1048
view profile
History
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/8/2011 8:34:40 AM
The story of the lady getting a job while protesting, is just ANOTHER example of what I've been saying from the beginning: the OWS protesters are NOT a homogeneous group of anti-capitalists, or money haters, or people looking for a free ride, or any of the other nasty things the right wingers have ignorantly thrown out about them.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 1049
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/8/2011 8:40:27 AM
Well I see it is back to our usual rants from our usual suspects! Calls of communism and socialism and wah wah's!

Thank you nepoli for supplying the facts on the California versus New York numbers.

I was a little surprised by the disparity, but as your facts pointed out, they have 2 times the population. Another surprising fact was their salary & retirement benefit is at least 10% higher than NY.

That they are 15th out of 50 states, is about where I expected. Yes that leaves 35 states worse, but still is far from what you would expect of a state the size of California.

Now what does it mean? Well for one thing, the shortfall in their projected income caused them to not fully fund in a number of years. I would assume due to recessionary issues related to expected revenue income shortfalls. Again it is easier to project expected revenue, in a fixed income(property taxes) environment, than a variable income(income taxes and captial gains) environment.

Still in all, the Governor and state legislature accepted the budget, the contracts and approved them. My point in showing NY versus CA, was to show change is needed to solve their problem. NY was in as bad a shape or worse, back in the 70's and changed the way they operated, in order to achieve a fully funded plan, why can't Cally?

Are you trying to tell me the unions have THAT much power, that they can out-vote the entire registered population of the state? Be that as it may be, this is about OWS.

As for the border war that broke out over to participate in the election process. What is the surprise about? Or don't those on here recognize that first you call attention to the problem(demonstration), then set about solving it(election of alternative candidates). I've never seen any OWS campaign material about seceding from the union, so this is a natural evolution in thinking.

It becomes putting teeth behind the words they were using in their protests.

As for wealth stripping or redistribution, c'mon guys, that dog won't hunt!! Are there outliers in the movement who adovcate extreme change? Of course there are! Suppose we attribute the radicals with guns in militia movements to all tea party members. Because they show up at rallies and agree with part of the tea party agenda. That would be the equivalent of saying this about OWS.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 1050
Occupy Wall Street
Posted: 12/8/2011 8:56:37 AM
Geeze OY...I always thought CaLPERS was the largest and best run public pension in America:

August 12, 2011


External Affairs Branch
(916) 795-3991
Robert Udall Glazier, Deputy Executive Officer
Brad Pacheco, Chief, Office of Public Affairs
Contact: Clark McKinley, Information Officer
pressroom@calpers.ca.gov


CalPERS Gets "AAA" From Fitch Ratings

SACRAMENTO, CA – The California Public Employees’ Retirement System (CalPERS) today announced that Fitch Ratings has reaffirmed its highest rating for the pension fund’s Credit Enhancement Program.

Fitch Ratings, a leading global rating agency, gave CalPERS its “AAA” rating for the System’s funding of retirement benefits, financial condition, and available liquidity.

“This rating validates the financial strength of CalPERS,” said Joe Dear, CalPERS Chief Investment Officer. “Our members and employers can be proud to be part of such a sound organization.”

CalPERS rating was based on several factors in Fitch’s assessment, including:

The System’s high liquidity cushion;


Adequate funding even after applying Fitch’s conservative discount rates; and


CalPERS prudent underwriting guidelines for its program.


CalPERS credit enhancement program was approved by the pension fund’s Board in February 2003. It is designed to help municipalities around the country that want to sell bonds to the market by getting backing from the “AAA” rated pension fund. CalPERS in turn charges a fee for lending its good credit. Fitch Ratings gave its highest possible F1+ rating for CalPERS short-term component.

“Our program provides support for California municipalities and others across the nation while adding value to our investment portfolio,” said Dear.

CalPERS has assets of about $222 billion. The retirement system administers pension benefits for more than 1.6 million active and retired California state, public school, and local public agency employees and their families, and health benefits for more than 1.3 million members, on behalf of 3,000 California public employers. The average CalPERS pension is $2,220 per month. More information is available at www.calpers.ca.gov.

http://www.calpers.ca.gov/index.jsp?bc=/about/press/pr-2011/aug/aaa-fitch-ratings.xml

In fact, CaLPERS has a better rating than the United States.
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