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 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 27
megalithic constructionPage 2 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)

It seems funny to me that the scientific world isn't completely blown away by this stuff - leaving engineering mysteries to archaeologists who may be good at what they do - but really do not have the background to analyze these things. I am a curious cat lol but this stuff really fires the 'need to know' in me and I wonder if the archaeological world may be too comfortable with their paradigms and rote theories to look beyond the box.


Well like you said, if something does not make sense to them then it does not exist. The issue is if you ignore something, it does not make it go away.


I think it's noteworthy that at some point seeing our ancestors as less intelligent than ourselves was a function of ego... and it fit in nicely with an early understanding of evolution - but it's obviously inaccurate.


IMO i think you are starting to wrap your mind around something that many in the science field would refuse to even consider. They see savages with sticks and vines and animals as the only possible way for a civilization that old to have been able to do anything. Like we are a far superior civilization much more advanced then they could have ever been.

I see the possibility that we have been down these roads before and failed as a global society once before.


The other question is WHY? Even if they had the ability - the expenditure of wealth, time and manpower to create such things is ridiculous.


Ok, Here is how my mind wraps around it. I do not assume the people were dumb farmers and slaves. The facts denote they mastered flight and quite advanced designs as well that we didn't start creating till the 1950's and 1960's.

Lets just think about what we would do if the world stopped spinning or started slowing down all of a sudden.

Gravity would lessen, the air currents would change, Atmospheric density would change, Ice sheets would expand from the polar regions and extend closer to the equator, The ocean tides would change, and since the centrifugal force would be lessened on the surface layer of the crust i am sure some continent shifting would take place.

Just because the earths rotation slowed down. Our bodies likely would not survive very long in such a harsh rapid change.

So what would we do? We would likely try to find a way to increase the earths rotation. You know since we are a superior society after all. Not likely to just toss in the towel and wait to die.

Ok so assuming again that they back then also had some pretty smart folks that were not willing to just roll over and die as well.

Maybe they would randomly take a guess that if they somehow channeled a large amount of energy that was floating around in the atmosphere into the earths crust that they might just be able to shift the poles in such a way to speed up the earths rotation.

So taking advantage of all that reduced gravity they needed to build huge structures as fast as they could to get them high enough in the air to act as huge lightening rods with the ability to channel that energy as deep in the crust as they could get it.

They had this cool stuff that we call gold and silver that is quite good at conducting massive amounts of of energy without turning to carbon and disintegrating.

but dang it they did not have enough of it to just stack it up for use so instead they needed platforms to be constructed that were capable of supporting the weight of that much of their conductive materials which allowed for the least amount of gold and silver to be utilized by getting it as high in the air as they could manage with enough thickness to handle the massive amounts of power that would be funneled through it into the earths crust.

So that ancient race of people trying to save themselves got busy and using the means of air travel and mathematics available to them as well as astrological markers for correct alignment they Positioned them in the correct spots at the time to allow for the greatest effect on the earth magnetosphere.


Hey its just a thought. Remember you were the one who asked.

As for what happened to them after... maybe that isn't any of our business, or maybe we are not ready to discover those things yet.

Just my opinions. Yours may be different.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 28
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/10/2011 1:42:25 AM

My question is, considering the scope of these works, the tools we know they had and the time involved how the heck did they accomplish these things? Personally I think we are missing some essential piece of this puzzle.

Structures like the pyramids weren't built overnight. With 100,000 people and several decades, you can do quite a lot, even without much technology.
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 29
view profile
History
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/10/2011 6:24:06 AM
dreamer

I looked into the idea of vibration and I found something interesting. There is at least one referral (Phoneician I think) about the 'ancestors' using 'magic words' and 'songs' to build things. Sound is vibration.. I'll find the referral for that

That is fascinating... and I think a valid point of inquiry.

The Great Pyramid - sure there could have been a workforce of 100,000 but I did the math before - 26 multi-ton blocks AN HOUR - 365 days a year (I do believe the Egyptians had a number of festivals or holy days as well - would they have worked on these?) to have completed it in Cheops reign. Not that that isn't possible but it's pretty staggering.

cheers
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 30
view profile
History
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/10/2011 10:08:44 AM
I give the man credit for seeking an alternative solution... but.. it isn't accurate.

http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.archaeology/2008-01/msg00764.html

The blocks are quarried limestone, not geopolymers.

"The Nabta circle was built by the circle makers of Atlantic Ireland who built the henges and circles and tumuli in Ireland."

From Ireland? in 5000 - 3000BC? Citation?

"An assembly of huge stone slabs found in Egypt's Sahara Desert that date from about 6,500 years to 6,000 years ago has been confirmed by scientists to be the oldest known astronomical alignment of megaliths in the world. Known as Nabta, the site consists of a stone circle, a series of flat, tomb-like stone structures and five lines of standing and toppled megaliths. Located west of the Nile River in southern Egypt, Nabta predates Stonehenge and similar prehistoric sites around the world by about 1,000 years, said University of Colorado at Boulder astronomy Professor J. McKim Malville."

"Interestingly 60% of the people of Switzerland share the same DNA as Tutankamun aka Tutankaten son of Akenaten." Citation? Have the genetics been mapped for this claim?
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 31
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/10/2011 11:09:23 AM
"Structures like the pyramids weren't built overnight. With 100,000 people and several decades, you can do quite a lot, even without much technology."

Nonsense ... The tolerances of the building methods and tunneling is so for beyond the ability of 100000 "helpers". Same can be said for other sites as well. The stone cutting technology suggests a very advanced culture. Many people today believe we have been on a linear progression forward especially those who worship science. I think we have been rising and falling many many times. Our current status is not the pinnacle necessarily, far from it IMHO.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 32
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/10/2011 12:32:56 PM

The tolerances of the building methods and tunneling is so for beyond the ability of 100000 "helpers". Same can be said for other sites as well. The stone cutting technology suggests a very advanced culture. Many people today believe we have been on a linear progression forward especially those who worship science. I think we have been rising and falling many many times. Our current status is not the pinnacle necessarily, far from it IMHO.


That entire post is...opinion. Not a shred of actual, supportable evidence for your blanket and rather chauvinistic assertions!
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 33
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/10/2011 6:18:01 PM
Star mumbled ....That entire post is...opinion. Not a shred of actual, supportable evidence for your blanket and rather chauvinistic assertions!

Smiles....

OK Star, how did they move the the stones at Baalbek (Trilithon), whose weight exceeds 1000 tons each (1,000,000 pounds) and then lift and place them with precision . These great stones vary in size between sixty-three and sixty-five feet in length, with a height of fourteen feet six inches and a depth of twelve feet.

http://www.biblelandstudios.com/nuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=34
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 34
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/10/2011 6:30:17 PM

1000 tons each (1,000,000 pounds)


is it your math or my math that is wrong? 1000 tons = 2,000,000 lbs doesn't it?
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 35
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/10/2011 6:45:03 PM
whoops :) of course your right, my error. I think they might have moved these from the quarry with a huge vibrator :)
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 36
view profile
History
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 7:35:16 AM
Okay.. let's move on to ropes since that question has been asked (men, ropes, horses, etc...)

Marlinespike - Rope Breaking Strength

Each type of line, natural fiber, synthetic and wire rope, have different breaking strengths and safe working loads. Natural breaking strength of manila line is the standard against which other lines are compared. Synthetic lines have been assigned "comparison factors" against which they are compared to manila line. The basic breaking strength factor for manila line is found by multiplying the square of the circumference of the line by 900 lbs.

(900 lbs. X circumference2 = breaking strength)

When you purchase line you will buy it by its diameter. However, for purposes of the USCG license exams, all lines must be measured by circumference. To convert use the following formula.

Circumference = p PI (3.14) X diameter

As an example, if you had a piece of ½" manila line and wanted to find the breaking strength, you would first calculate the circumference. (.5 X 3.14 = 1.57) Then using the formula above:

1.572 X 900 = 2,218 pounds of breaking strength (close to a ton)

So is anyone better at math than I am and could do the calculation for the amount of rope, and the diameter of the rope needed to move a 400- 600 ton stone (let's take the middle ground here 500 tons) that is 60 feet long and 30 feet wide. Let's just set aside the manpower, etc.. and look at this one factor.


Just some interesting facts:
A construction management study (testing) carried out by the firm Daniel, Mann, Johnson, & Mendenhall in association with Mark Lehner and other Egyptologists, estimates that the total project required an average workforce of 14,567 people and a peak workforce of 40,000. Without the use of pulleys, wheels, or iron tools, they used critical path analysis to suggest the Great Pyramid was completed from start to finish in approximately 10 years.[46] Their study estimates that the number of blocks used in construction was between 2 and 2.8 million (an average of 2.4 million), but settles on a reduced finished total of 2 million after subtracting the estimated volume of the hollow spaces of the chambers and galleries.[46] Most sources agree on this number of blocks somewhere above 2.3 million.[47] Their calculations suggest the workforce could have sustained a rate of 180 blocks per hour (3 blocks/minute) with ten hour work days for putting each individual block in place. They derived these estimates from modern third-world construction projects that did not use modern machinery, but conclude it is still unknown exactly how the Great Pyramid was built.[46] As Dr. Craig Smith of the team points out:

"The logistics of construction at the Giza site are staggering when you think that the ancient Egyptians had no pulleys, no wheels, and no iron tools. Yet, the dimensions of the pyramid are extremely accurate and the site was leveled within a fraction of an inch over the entire 13.1-acre base. This is comparable to the accuracy possible with modern construction methods and laser leveling. That's astounding. With their 'rudimentary tools,' the pyramid builders of ancient Egypt were about as accurate as we are today with 20th century technology." [48]

[46] a b c Civil Engineering magazine, June 1999 url=http://web.archive.org/web/20070608101037/http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/0699feat.html

[47] "Khufu's Inside Story". Nova online. PBS.org. 1997. Retrieved 2007-04-13.

[48] DMJM Solves the Riddle of the Sphinx...Okay, Well, its Neighbor

It sort of pisses me off when one asks legitimate questions and they are pushed aside by non-cited comments, non-researched opinion, and then associated with crackpot theories. It is NOT the same to query, or reject pat answers as it is to be throwing out wild speculation like 'aliens must have done it'. I find it insulting that reasonable questions are associated with mental instability because the answers aren't simple or because the simple answers don't work.

This was a point I have made several times within this post. We DON'T know how this was done - it isn't apparent how the ancients did theses feats - not to the archaeological community, not to engineers... there are many problems with the construction of these structures. To say that we have all the answers is arrogant and uneducated and patently false.

I'm not touching 'huge vibrator' with a ten foot pole lol

However the idea of using vibration is a valid concept. But what way would they originate the kind of vibration needed? Are there calculations for this - has anyone tested this hypothesis?
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 37
view profile
History
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 7:37:50 AM
Tall,

Unfortunately, if one only takes the great pyramid, the time needed, the tools available (that we know of) and the ability to move some of the larger stones... not it's not sufficient. The smaller temples and such.. sure - but the larger structures? It's an enigma.
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 38
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 8:48:31 AM

Okay.. let's move on to ropes since that question has been asked (men, ropes, horses, etc...)


Well you started out your query with an assumption and then asked a citation for what type of ropes were used.

I have never seen any evidence provided that ropes were even used at all. So don't you think that is putting the cart before the horse to even attempt to understand tencile strength of the ropes that they used when there is not even any evidence that they used ropes to begin with?

Here is your answers boiled down to a simple statement. You are never going to find any evidence because they didn't leave any evidence behind. They cleaned up their mess. It is a trait that we value in today's construction standards.

Think about it.. If you called a contractor in to remodel your bathroom or kitchen and when they were all done they just walked off and left all their tools, construction waste, and etched their step by step account of how it was done in your counter tops then you would likely be a bit pissed off wouldn't you?

Don't you see? That is what you and others are expecting to see. You are looking for construction waste to figure out how they built them.

This too is an assumption but, you are not going to find it on the job site.


"The logistics of construction at the Giza site are staggering when you think that the ancient Egyptians had no pulleys, no wheels, and no iron tools. Yet, the dimensions of the pyramid are extremely accurate and the site was leveled within a fraction of an inch over the entire 13.1-acre base. This is comparable to the accuracy possible with modern construction methods and laser leveling. That's astounding. With their 'rudimentary tools,' the pyramid builders of ancient Egypt were about as accurate as we are today with 20th century technology."


It is an assumption that just because none were found that none were available. Don't you see that it is not any different to say that they had a modern day bulldozer onsite as it is to say that they didn't even have an iron hammer? any evidence would not be left behind in either of those assumptions.

A construction worker does not leave their hammer behind when they are done and a dozer operator does not leave their dozer behind when they are done either. So when someone in that field makes a statement that if they used those things then their would be evidence that they were there is just a very narrow view of construction workers.

Anyone skilled enough to tackle such a task to begin with would be skilled enough to clean up their mess after it is done as well...

I am just saying....

Call any contractor today and ask them if they would build you a huge brick structure. Then ask them if they would be so kind to leave all their equipment and tools behind when they are done so that 10,000 years later an academic somewhere might be able to figure out how they build that building for you.

Make sense? That is what you and others researching it are expecting to find.

Instead, I make the assumption that nothing like that would be found onsite since they were completed projects.


It sort of pisses me off when one asks legitimate questions and they are pushed aside by non-cited comments, non-researched opinion, and then associated with crackpot theories. It is NOT the same to query, or reject pat answers as it is to be throwing out wild speculation like 'aliens must have done it'. I find it insulting that reasonable questions are associated with mental instability because the answers aren't simple or because the simple answers don't work.


I had always figured you were a pretty smart lady when conversing on the religion forum section. In My Opinion it is perfectly acceptable to have conversation here on the forums about topics like this however, you can not expect to find anyone on these forums able to supply you with any proof of anything having to do with those structures because the time that passed between completed construction and first discovery by modern man was such a time frame that even modern day steel would have succumb to the elements and turned to dust.

Machinery from just a couple hundred years ago has been disintegrated away. So unless they made their machines out of solid rock then it is just silliness to expect to find any evidence at all.

So unless you have a satellite in orbit capable of time travel to be able to observe the event from orbit without interacting with that timeline then it is not likely to yield you any understanding.

Without any records being left behind, no physical evidence, no possible way for any evidence to even survive the ravages of time, and not even a way to duplicate it using modern technology, you are left with nothing but assumptions and guesses.

Bottom line... Don't get pissed off over it. Just have fun with it. There is not a single person on this planet that could EVER claim to have figured it out and capable of offering any evidence because it is not possible. All anyone would ever have is assumptions and probabilities. So have fun with it. Use it to expand your mind and use it as an attempt to understand something from this planets past.

Don't try to claim some type of authority and/or advanced understanding and knowledge about it because it does not make someone any different than the people that say that aliens built them.

The available evidence for both camps of thought have the same grade of evidence available. Speculation, assumptions, and an attempted understanding of methods using biased information.

Just my opinions and assumptions
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 39
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History
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 9:39:51 AM
Dreamer

That's interesting... I AM open to any and all possibilities, the fact that what we KNOW of their tools is limited to whatever we HAVE found, anything else is speculation - but reasoned speculation is the beginning of a working hypothesis.

I realize this doesn't mean we can say that's ALL they had. It's the fact that science assumes that they were capable of doing this with ONLY the tools we know they had, that baffles me.
Some of these cultures did leave extensive records, paintings and other clues - no machinery, that I know of has been discovered in these, but there is always the possibility that it is missing from the record.

Ropes are shown in ancient egyptian wall paintings tied to stones that are being pulled by people - that's where I get my assumption that they used rope.

I have no advanced knowledge or authority - which is why I asked the question. But I can look things up and find out stuff.
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 40
view profile
History
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 9:54:45 AM
I am not sure how many theories are out there - more than I am aware of I'm sure. Most are probably pretty crazy.

One is that they could be the remains of a much more ancient civilization - since we don't have any real evidence of this other than the megaliths themselves - it's an unsupported hypothesis.

#3 I've never heard of.. but it's kind of funny lol

For me 'aliens' would be the very last one I would consider - maybe just because it's too easy and it does infer that humans are not capable of solving these problems without outside intervention. It's like people who don't understand evolutionary science and can only go as far as - "it's amazing - God musta dun it" sort of thinking.

I don't know how they did it - no one seems to, not really, and I'd like to explore it - rationally. That's it, that's all

thanks
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 41
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 9:56:19 AM

So is anyone better at math than I am and could do the calculation for the amount of rope, and the diameter of the rope needed to move a 400- 600 ton stone (let's take the middle ground here 500 tons) that is 60 feet long and 30 feet wide. Let's just set aside the manpower, etc.. and look at this one factor.


I would not say i am better at math but if i myself had to pull something that had a single pull item (huge block) yet multiple pulling points (meaning either people, animals, machines) then a single rope is not the ideal choice. You would use a net instead. That way the point of pressure is spread out over multiple points on the block and then the contact points for people, animals, or machines are spread out since they all could not be in one single contact point.

This also dissipates the total load to multiple points and spreads it out throughout the whole net.

Basically put, using your example above detailing the limits of a 1/2 inch rope. Using a single 1/2 rope would limit its ability but using that same half inch rope to construct a net would be capable of a LOT more of a load. The exact load capability would change depending on the type of net construction utilized and how efficient it is at spreading out its load..

Now you asked the question of how they could have moved them. I listed before that impact vibrations could have made it possible to reduce the weight. Using a net could have made any type of rope cable of withstanding the loads (depending on net construction of course) now lets look at how even a vibrated rock could be pulled that high in the air.

A pendulum swinging back and forth with a massive boulder on its end just might allow enough leverage to reel in a net using a pinch point fulcrum. as the pendulum swings down it pinches the net and pulls the block a few feet. It reaches its apex and releases the net. the people or animals pull it tight to keep tension while the pendulum swings back to the other side again. Another down swing and pinch and another few feet. like a ratcheting strap setup but using a pendulum for the force instead of a lever.

Make sense? Such a machine would not be that difficult to build or transport.

Just my opinions
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 42
view profile
History
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 10:13:17 AM
A net would be a lot more efficient

It would be interesting to see that in action

:)
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 43
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 10:55:36 AM

A net would be a lot more efficient

It would be interesting to see that in action

:)


Well you could always spend a couple days in a 3D simulator assembling all the primitive shapes needed, about a week arranging them and scripting their movements, and then another few days setting up and programing a machinima sequence to move the views around those models.

That is like 2-3 weeks of work just to be able to see a speculation in action. That is also assuming you have those skills and abilities to begin with. If you don't then there would likely be a cost associated with it unless of course you convince an undergrad or sucker to do your work for you for free...lol

You have about as much chance of that happening as you do in finding proof of how someone could build the sphinx. lol
 good_dreams
Joined: 9/14/2011
Msg: 44
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 12:07:09 PM
Very interesting thread OP. Thanks for posing the question. It makes me wonder though, if our current civilization were to disappear and 10,ooo year afterwards a more intelligent race discovered it and studied its remains... might they be left wondering how we achieved some of the great feats of engineering that we have?
If the technological advancements continued to progress at the same rate, and realistically it is likely that technology could progress at an even more exponential rate, then they would certainly be left thinking that we had very simple types of technology available to us. But yet we were able to travel and set foot on the moon? Would they be not only wondering how, but why?
I also agree that their are many pieces of the past that we have yet to discover, many mysteries to be solved. I guess my point is that all these megalithic sites are all explainable, no aliens or anything of that sort. Just people doing what they have always done... using their intelligence and ingenuity to create great things with the technology they have available. That is human nature.
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 45
view profile
History
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 12:20:29 PM
I have auto-cad and some 3d programs (benefits of being a designer) - but setting up the actual scripting to do that - it's beyond me.

However there may be some genius programming nerd out there with those skills who would colaborate - it's possible!
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 46
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History
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 12:29:06 PM
I agree... there was a question earlier in the science forum about wanting to be a fossil. I imagine that future people would get a LOT of things wrong about us by what we leave behind.

It's very difficult to extrapolate about a culture on only archeaological evidence.

Cheers
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 47
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 12:30:14 PM
Prehistoric Construction Techniques.
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/constructiontechniques.htm

Water erosion of the sphinx is yet another clue of the age of this site.

http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/sphinx.html
 good_dreams
Joined: 9/14/2011
Msg: 48
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 12:35:47 PM
Now this post has me interested in learning what the most current and widely accepted theories are regarding how the great pyramid was constructed. Can anyone point me to where I might look for that information? I would appreciate it!
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 49
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 1:11:39 PM

It makes me wonder though, if our current civilization were to disappear and 10,ooo year afterwards a more intelligent race discovered it and studied its remains... might they be left wondering how we achieved some of the great feats of engineering that we have?


Name one. The bridges and buildings we build crumble apart needing constant maintenance after just 50-100 years so clearly they won't be around after 10,000. Those are some of the biggest things our generation is capable so please i would love to know what we have built that would survive 10,000 years.


. I guess my point is that all these megalithic sites are all explainable, no aliens or anything of that sort. Just people doing what they have always done


just people doing what they have always done? what have people always done? Eat, sleep. shyt, and find way to eat, sleep, and shyt easier?


using their intelligence and ingenuity to create great things with the technology they have available. That is human nature.


I am not trying to argue here but that is not human nature. Human nature is the things we do without thinking about it. It is our animal instincts. The things you describe are NOT human nature those are the things that separate us from animals. Those are the things we do to NOT be a human nature oriented society.

Breathing is human nature.
Eating is human nature.
Sleeping is human nature.
Breeding is human nature.
Protecting our offspring is human nature.
Teaching our offspring to survive is human nature.

Plus many more things that come naturally to us without any complex thought dictating those outcomes.

Building a house is not human nature. That requires complex thought.
Building a bridge is not human nature.
Building a car is not human nature.
Building a machine of any kind is not human nature.

Basically put... human nature are the things that we do without prior generations passing along their learned wisdom to maintain future generations. Human tendencies however ARE those things that we pass along from generation to generation that require complex thought that as a result we pass them along so that the next generation does not have to reinvent the wheel so to speak by redoing everything.

You think we are an advanced society? We are far from an advanced society because just about everything we build has to be torn down and rebuilt with every new generation. Nothing lasts. so we are only one generation away from the stone age.

Don't see it? Stop maintaining a bridge for 50 years and see how much of that bridge is left.

An ADVANCED society is one that can ADVANCE. We are not that society. We are stuck in a loop of repetition. Build an electrical grid that could last 2 generations without basically being replaced one piece at a time allows for advancement. Building a road that can last for at least 2 generations without needing to be redone every few years is an advanced society.

I see what you are trying to say however. You consider our technological advances to mean we are advancing but that is not really what i would consider an advanced society is as i said, future generations do not have to keep rebuilding the things prior generations have built.

the people that built those pyramids built you something that has managed to last 10,000 years... THAT is a human achievement and advancement.

Maybe it isn't a human achievement at all and it is a message instead. A goal for humans to strive for. A level of competence that must be achieved before humans could be considered an advanced civilization.

Humans are a race of people that build and engineer everything for a specific purpose with specifications that are just barely good enough to get the job done.

It does not matter if humans are going across the country or out into space. The vehicles built are capable of just making the trip that they were designed for.

The next generation will just have to build their own. So instead of just being able to add to it to enhance and advance it, that next generations has to keep starting over from scratch.

That is an advanced society? A society that has to keep starting over repeating the same steps over and over and over again?

Nope. I do not see it.

Until humans discover the ability to build something using materials that become more durable over time instead of less durable then there is no advancement.

Until our computational devices have the ability to be enhanced over time while no longer being replaced every few years then technological advancement can not be claimed.

Until something, anything we do or build is designed so that future generations will be able to build off from it and use their time and skills to enhance it instead of figuring out how to replace it them I am sorry I do not see humans as an advanced society because there is not much room for advancement only replacement.

What do you think is more likely? That we as a species has a greater chance to advance, or to be replaced?

Personally i think it could go either way. Our species is at a crossroad point in history because almost everything is in need of replacement. at least here in the US it is. Now is the time, This is the generation that must choose the path future generations must walk in.

Just my opinions and observations.

Lots of smart words floating around out in this world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtSAIhP1-5s&NR=1
 swingarm1966
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 50
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 1:25:52 PM
Man Moves Huge Blocks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pCvx5gSnfW4#!
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 51
megalithic construction
Posted: 10/11/2011 1:48:11 PM
I have auto-cad and some 3d programs (benefits of being a designer) - but setting up the actual scripting to do that - it's beyond me.

However there may be some genius programming nerd out there with those skills who would colaborate - it's possible!


I have friends all over the world i collaborate with to build things. We use Secondlife.com

It allows rapid assembly of things like this that detailed schematics are not needed for construction.

I work with primitives to give shape to things and then i am also an LSL programer which provides interaction as well as primitive movement. Basically put, I am the guy that can make things and then make them do what they are suppose to do. I am not the guy that can make them pretty (yet)

I lack the proper software for those purposes. I use GIMP for my textures but in 3D a flat texture gets wrapped around the 3D shape with all its contours. Drawing on a flat canvas in GIMP that then must be wrapped around a 3D object sucks.

Instead i just focus on improving other things till Adobe photoshop CS5 becomes more affordable. Since i use my time and tools to earn money (even if they are small amounts) that excludes being able to utilize the educational version of it, and the full version is in my opinion WAY overpriced.

That program has a nice plugin for it that allows the sculpt maps to be imported into it to then paint directly onto the 3D surface which can then be flattened and exported to later be uploaded and imported into SL so that when wrapped around the primitives created from the sculpt maps everything lines up perfectly and looks great...lol

Maya is another one but that too is out of the reach of most people unless the cost can be justified which for most people it can't.

Thus why i keep my day job still...lol

You might find a nerd somewhere out there board that likes seeing their name associated to projects. I am more of the kind of guy that does things for other people so that they can put their names on it as I slink away off to the next one. Most of the people that know me in that place know i am not one to try and steel their lime light... I just get it done hand it over and let them do with it as they see fit.
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