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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Time Travel-Is it possible?      Home login  
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 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 326
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Time-Travel for Humans is IMPOSSIBLE!Page 14 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
andyaa - I think the misunderstanding lies here:

A couple posts above I explained that all I'm trying to do is clarify what many are thinking about when thinking of Time; The thing* that we perceive or experience which we just give the name of Time. What is often being thought about when we think of Time. Not that Time really 'is' such-and-such in a concrete way. Regardless of whether or not it's really 'this' kind of thing or 'that' kind of thing, and of what's really going on to produce that perception or experience on our part of Time.

* - the use of the word "thing" not to be misunderstood for meaning "an actual thing"...in whatever sense that we're trying to mean that something actually "is" in some way or another.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 327
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Time-Travel for Humans is IMPOSSIBLE!
Posted: 5/27/2015 6:39:11 PM
Ok, I understand what you're saying there.

But it might not be accurate to say that my clarification is wrong, because I'm just describing what I think many are thinking of or referring to with the word "time". What I'm wrong about, to go by what you're saying, is my understanding of energy and energy transformation.

And so I guess that you're saying that our (science's) understanding of these things is beyond the common notions of energy and energy transformation, and that thinking of things in these terms is wrong...that we have better descriptions of reality than what I'm using.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 328
Time-Travel for Humans is IMPOSSIBLE!
Posted: 5/27/2015 9:26:16 PM
You really need to read some textbooks. You will not understand this geometrically without some studying. As far as energy goes, energy is the thing that's conserved when physical laws are invariant under time translations. See Noether's theorems. Equivalently, it's the thing that's conserved when there exists a timelike Killing vector on the manifold.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 329
Time-Travel for Humans is IMPOSSIBLE!
Posted: 5/28/2015 10:26:19 AM
1. Subject line has been changed, so putting it back.


2. If time travel was possible, we would already know about it.


If you do not understand why we would already know about it, then you do not understand time travel.

Because the idea of someone from the future being able to visit the past means that the future has already happened and because no one has come back to change anything or announce anything then it must be concluded that:

"If If time travel was possible, we would already know about it"
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 330
Time-Travel for Humans is IMPOSSIBLE!
Posted: 5/28/2015 11:06:38 AM
2. If time travel was possible, we would already know about it.
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That's a good slogan, but it's not good enough to be an objection. Here's an article by Kip Thorne that explains the situation in some detail. I can't imagine claiming he doesn't have as good or better grasp on the subject as anyone.


http://www.its.caltech.edu/~kip/scripts/ClosedTimelikeCurves-II121.pdf
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 331
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/28/2015 11:15:41 AM

Here's an article by Kip Thorne that explains the situation in some detail. I can't imagine claiming he doesn't have as good or better grasp on the subject as anyone.


I do not have time to check his math and I am sure that he makes some great points, but the fact still remains, if time travel was possible we would already know about it.

Because even if people could time travel but not change events or warn others of impending disasters there would be a small group of people who would keep winning the lottery.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 332
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/28/2015 11:44:49 AM
I do not have time to check his math and I am sure that he makes some great points,
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That's not really an argument that dismisses anything.

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but the fact still remains, if time travel was possible we would already know about it.
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No, it only means that your assumption about the implications is overly simplistic.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 333
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/28/2015 12:21:29 PM

No, it only means that your assumption about the implications is overly simplistic.


If you could time travel, what would you do?
 TrentHillsLooking
Joined: 2/9/2015
Msg: 334
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/28/2015 12:55:06 PM

if time travel was possible we would already know about it.


I don't believe in time travel but how can you make this statement?


If you could time travel, what would you do?


Likely not get married to my children's mother. Love my kids, but she was a mistake.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 335
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/28/2015 1:14:48 PM

if time travel was possible we would already know about it

Not automatically. Not necessarily.

People yabber about the paradoxes of going back to your younger self or your grandpa, etc. But think about how you can't walk through a wall, or you have to walk 10 miles around a river to find a way over...

...if there were such a thing as the "time-landscape", if you will, that we're talking about, if a trip back in time that someone was about to take would result in some applicable changes in events, then the landscape simply wouldn't let you go back in the first place, or when you do it would land you sometime else other than where you aimed. Or something. Etc.

Now, again, this isn't something that I'm saying is reality...it is only a notion of mine having to do with what you're talking about, and I am only showing that if we're going to speculate on these things this way then we have to conceive of other possibilities instead of just saying "if time travel was possible we would already know about it" with absoluteness as if we already know all of the hypothetical details and possibilities.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 336
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/28/2015 4:33:42 PM
Past, present are but assumptions.
The flow of time, is but a presumption.
All of time, flows through you as you read this....
Simply because we are.... Time Machines!!!


Everything we're talking about here exists in our minds. Past, present, future..... As I write, the sands are flowing into the future. If you're having fun, time goes fast.... If you're experiencing a downturn, it can drag.It's all in your head. time inclusive.... And again this is all My Opinion...

IMAGINATION..... the best time machine we ever invented.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 337
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/28/2015 7:08:14 PM
If you could time travel, what would you do?
-------------------
No way to know without knowing what nature might allow. Nature ultimately determines what is and isn't possible. Science only discovers what nature allows.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 338
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/29/2015 8:42:29 AM

If you could time travel, what would you do?

Help develop an appreciation in Adolf Hitler's paintings and get them sold?
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 339
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/29/2015 12:05:26 PM

Help develop an appreciation in Adolf Hitler's paintings and get them sold?


Last I checked there are no unsold paintings by Hitler and in fact if one was to come onto the market I bet it would fetch a large sum.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 340
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/29/2015 12:38:08 PM
^ I'm talking about back before the birth of the Nazi party. However much he sold back then even...for him to not fail as an artist.

Unless he totally sucked as a painter, that is. Except that, I don't think they're too shabby.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 341
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/29/2015 4:38:32 PM

Unless he totally sucked as a painter, that is. Except that, I don't think they're too shabby.



Relevant

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/02/6f/58/026f581ad01b240db71904fcf69daf48.jpg
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 342
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/29/2015 6:47:18 PM
(the link)
And, well, if you went back in time and somehow caused him to be able to pursue his artistic interests more successfully and receive more appreciation and recognition...then certain things might not've happened and the implication at that link wouldn't be possible nor apply. You wouldn't be able to ridicule the idea of enjoying his artwork.

There have been a few speculative works written about how global history might have gone if WW1 never happened (let alone WW2). Some of them seem quite interesting, positive, and plausible.

If I don't remember wrongly, this is an area where Igor might have some informed input. I'd be interested in seeing what he has to say about it...
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 343
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/29/2015 7:01:42 PM
^^^

Maybe there was someone worse than Hitler and someone went back and took him out and this is what we got.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 344
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/29/2015 7:24:09 PM
@post 455


Nature ultimately determines what is and isn't possible.


Exactly, which is why Steve Hawking doesn't buy into time travel
CTCs (or CTLs) don't exist in nature, it is something that got conjured up; although it might be fun toying with,
we cannot forget that we live in a RATIONAL Universe (where cause & effect rule)
that does not permit the paradoxes & absurdities inherent with time travel (assuming that the past even exists at all)
Nature itself, has no use for the past as an entity (into which we can travel) thus it is very likely immediately extinguished; or it is set forth into a mono-dimension where it cannot be accessed ever.

Nonetheless, in toying with the notion of time travel could offer some fun & pass times
If possible, my idea of it would be like this:

A. You could not travel any further back than when you came into existence (doing so would be in violation of conservation of energy)
B. If you went back, you can only go back into your own life line from whence you came
C. In effect, you'd be immediately merged with your "younger self"
D. At that point, you wouldn't even know that you came from the future, because all that has taken place has yet to happen.
E. You would then live your life exactly as it happened before, so as not to alter the causes & effects that took place.

Thus in the above sequences, time travel would then be pointless (from nature's standpoint that is!).
which is why (for entertainment purposes) it is best left for Sci-Fi shows!
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 345
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/29/2015 11:47:35 PM
I have no qualms with the idea that the past doesn't exist hence we couldn't travel to it, because that seems to make sense...and don't really grieve the loss of relevant sci-fi...

...with one exception. Doctor Who. The Doctor must definitely remain always exempt from all this.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 346
Time-Travel for Humans is IMPOSSIBLE!
Posted: 5/30/2015 10:08:26 AM

HFX_RGB2
"If If time travel was possible, we would already know about it"

it's Classified ....

people can barely drive a car to their neighboring city without getting lost or having an accident and you want them to be zipping through a Black Hole....youtube would have to create an entire new site to handle all the lost in space lost in time videos

and the missing person list would explode ...have you seen this person ...his name is Frank Smith...he was last seen with a woman named "Jezebel" around 1700 b.c. in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah


HFX_RGB2
Because even if people could time travel but not change events or warn others of impending disasters there would be a small group of people who would keep winning the lottery.

would billionaires be included in that list


HFX_RGB2
If you could time travel, what would you do?

if one had the ability to time travel they would have to prepare to either become a psychopath or a sociopath ...during the history of existence supposedly billions of people have either starved, died in wars, suffered injustice etc. etc. etc....so are you going to help or ignore them....and who are you going to help or ignore ...either way you become God


Doremi_Fasolatido
Everything we're talking about here exists in our minds. Past, present, future.....

Everything that ever was or that ever will be, exist right now, at this exact moment, at this exact point in time in the subconscious.....funchess 3:16


Yule_liquor
we cannot forget that we live in a RATIONAL Universe (where cause & effect rule)that does not permit the paradoxes & absurdities inherent with time travel (assuming that the past even exists at all)

the Universe is under the jurisdiction of the laws of physics....and as we know...laws are made to be broken


Yule_liquor
Nature itself, has no use for the past as an entity (into which we can travel) thus it is very likely immediately extinguished;

reminds me of the television program "Forensic Files" ...how there is always evidence in the present and future of what have taken place in the past ...which is an indication that the past is not immediately extinguished and exist in some shape form or fashion in complete detail

the past being immediately extinguished was the concept used in the movie/book by Stephen King "The Langoliers" when there were strange creatures flying around eating up the past
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 347
Time-Travel for Humans is IMPOSSIBLE!
Posted: 5/31/2015 9:15:53 PM
^


the Universe is under the jurisdiction of the laws of physics....and as we know...laws are made to be broken


the only laws made to be broken are the (so called) laws written by men
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 348
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 5/31/2015 10:21:05 PM
Exactly, which is why Steve Hawking doesn't buy into time travel
CTCs (or CTLs) don't exist in nature, it is something that got conjured up; although it might be fun toying with,
----------------
Then, I suggest you submit your proof of that to reputable journal, immediately, since the proof for that has eluded everyone since it was conjectured and unfortunately, those appear even in reasonable solutions like the Kerr vacuum. Your proof of this would very likely lead to quite a lot of fame in scientific circles.

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If possible, my idea of it would be like this:
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How could you possibly have any idea of what it would mean?
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 349
Time-Travel for Humans is IMPOSSIBLE!
Posted: 6/1/2015 10:01:38 AM

yule_liquor
the only laws made to be broken are the (so called) laws written by men

whom else were the laws of physics written by but by Men ..unless of course God etched the laws of physics on a stone tablet using lightning bolts and gave them to Moses on Mt. Sinai

therefore it is Men that write/wrote the laws of physics....even Einstein wrote a law of physics claiming that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light ....heck I might as well write a law of physics ....

nothing can be created using the resources of the Universe that doesn't already exist within the Universe...funches 3:16

in other words ...Man does not actually create but only recreates that which already exist in the Universe/Nature ....if a camera can be use to record and view the past..why would the Universe be incapable of doing the same or is not doing the same using the same magnetic principle etc. behind that of a camera or perhaps a vcr....oops I meant a DVD player
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 350
Time-Travel for Humans is IMPOSSIBLE!
Posted: 6/1/2015 4:09:03 PM
@male


Then, I suggest you submit your proof of that to reputable journal,


Proof of what? that CTC's don't exist?
I think the burden of proof lies squarely upon those who say they do exist
You can formulate all the equations you want, but at the end of the day, you are gonna have to back up your claims experimentally as it did with Einstein's theory of R, and I don't just mean creating it artificially.

If there is indisputable proof already that they do exist in nature, then post some credible references and I'll take a look at them.

Btw, learn how to use quotations, it might you get your points across a bit better
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@ Fun


therefore it is Men that write/wrote the laws of physics.


Men do not "write" the laws of physics, they discover them and then they describe them usually using mathematical formulae. Galileo did not write the law of gravity, he described it by his experimentation.


if a camera can be use to record and view the past..why would the Universe be incapable of doing the same or is not doing the same


I didn't say outright that the "universe" is incapable of recording & storing the past in some way;
and if the past serves some use to the universe (and I could not think of what that would be),
then I'm sure that the universe would have a way to store it. Even if so, this doesn't mean that it can be accessed.

Bear in mind that recalling the past, or recording the past is not the same as actually storing the past.
If you believe that the U can store the past, then you will have come up with the proofs!
I'm sure a Nobel prize will be guaranteed
Don't forget to invite us to your bash.
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