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 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 176
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Time Travel-Is it possible?Page 8 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
...well, nonetheless, I commented that a vid with that mr. khaki-pants-mojo dude showing how we could do such-and-such with time and space wasn't really explaining anything very well at all and was relying too much, possibly completely, on metaphor, just making statements, such that for all we know it could be fantasy...and we got a nonsense rant (that is no longer there) which basically said that scientists should be allowed to rely only on their status and credibility, in a snobby way, as if nobody without their formal education could understand a better explanation...very "technical" things are explained all of the time, at least a bit better than that, to the "less educated" who don't have knowledge of higher math and terminology, and it's not that hard. I know for a fact that if I had the relevant and equilavent formal education, and agreed with these concepts in that light, I could explain them pretty darn good without having to use only higher-tech-speak, or only making the claims and using metaphors that require you to make an assumption and either believe me or not. This is the kind of thing that gives scientists a bad image, if and when they adopt the attitude of the rant poster.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 177
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/16/2014 5:59:28 PM
Andyaa:

Ok, now you sound like me talking. Did somebody put you up to that? That ain't funny fellas.

However, I'll beg to differ with you on one thing - Everything that you said is right. Period. End of that story. But, I have found it pretty easy to explain things, like evolution for example, to someone who is infected with these grave misperceptions and doesn't know of the basic concepts and dynamics involved...I have successfully explained it to them, without doing it in such a way that I'm basically asking them to just take my word for it because I say so or use cool metaphors which only demonstrate without anything to substantiate. I never tell someone that they're just shit out of luck because they don't know as much as me and I'm unable...unwilling...to bother conversing with them on anything if they don't already have a ticket to that special clubhouse. This kind of goes with the fact that my self-image isn't influenced at all by how smart or dumb I think I am, and also that I know how to learn as well from people who know more than me about something...they've successfully explained it to me, giving that I'm willing and have the right attitude, and given that that other person doing the "teaching" for that moment likewise has the right common sense, willingness, and attitude.

And, of course, now and then in here, you'll be entertained when someone shows up who has insecurity, hard-headedness, argumentative competitiveness, closed-minded lack of imagination, lack of objectivity or honest intentions, and doesn't want to learn, nor explain and teach, a damned thing.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 178
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/19/2014 9:50:03 AM
If you three aren't careful, you're going to all be right, and give everyone a proper education in these things.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 179
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/22/2014 8:48:35 PM
What he's saying is this -

10 is just a number.
4+6 is the theory. The explanation.
4, and the plus sign, the dynamic of addition, and 6, are the forces.

A box takes up a certain amount of space. How much space it takes up, is just how much it takes up.
The dimensions of the box, it's size, is the theory. The explanation.
The fact that an inch takes up whatever amount of space in space that it takes up, and the angles of the corners of the box, are the forces.

An apple is red. That is just it's color.
What makes it appear red is the theory. The explanation.
Light, and the dynamic of light behaving a certain way while interacting with the surface of the apple, are the forces.
 63T
Joined: 5/28/2006
Msg: 180
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/23/2014 7:04:54 PM
Faithdefender;

In scientific terms a theory is accepted as true until new evidence either disproves it or modifies it.

A theory can be accepted as "true" IF it agrees with all known experimental evidence.
The meaning of "true" as in the sense of supporting an hypothesis or group of hypotheses through repeated testing.
Since science does not make moral judgements, the theory is not "true" in a moral sense.
As well, a theory can never be PROVEN or TRUE in a sense of unquestionable absolution, moral or otherwise.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 181
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/23/2014 9:10:44 PM
Oh darn. Doh! Shoulda had a V-8.

Was just trying to put ya'll's issue with "what is stress" into another frame.

Ya'll are cracking me up.

...really, who DOESN'T read through these conversations sometimes and sit laughing till they can't breathe for about 10 minutes?
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 182
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/24/2014 3:36:36 PM
"drinkwiththesuninmyface"...hahahaha!! Luv it.

But so...is time travel possible or not already? I say - backwards, no...forwards, already happens naturally.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 183
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/29/2014 5:33:24 PM
andyaa-I understand your frustration with people who confuse theory and law.
Theory is based on conjecture, it is knowledge based guessing, similar to an educated guess, you get it right, but only based on knowledge of other things that led you to a correct answer.
It is NOT the same thing as law or fact.
Law and fact require concrete proof.
Ironically, with all the debating here, both sides are presenting theory's. Time travel will never be fact until it happens and there is proof.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 184
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/29/2014 5:59:08 PM
^ Well *grin* I say that forward time travel already happens all of the time. And there's "proof". And I say that backwards time travel is impossible. And there's "proof". However...in order to understand this, you have to know what time is in the first place...and you have to know what is really meant by "traveling forward or backward through time" in the second place.

I've jabbered about this quite a bit in this thread, and in two others. A lot. And what I say is dismissed as ridiculous. *bow/curtsey* Hehe. But...I haven't seen any of the dismissing to be based on anything real. I haven't seen an understanding of what I even say lying within someone's dismissal. I haven't seen anyone really show what's wrong with my idea. And I haven't seen any better explanation for what time is and what traveling through it would really mean.

Hehe...come and git me. I'm a matador. Ole'! Anyone want to try again to figure it out already?
 OTTO BONN
Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 185
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/30/2014 3:12:07 AM
I feel like a time traveler every time I set my clock back in the fall.

I don't care much for the spring time leap when I loose an hour.

No sir. I don't like it.

 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 186
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/30/2014 3:15:36 AM
Well, I'd say that backwards time travel is re-setting everything in the universe to a certain state and position, etc, which is why I think that it's impossible...so, could that be the same as you mean here? -

It was shown that backward time travel is mathematically possible. To cut a long story short you know the c squared bit in the equation, well throw that across the equals and you get plus or minus the square root... We can then explain it as plus or minus time travel. Trouble is you need infinite amount of energy and a particle which began existence traveling faster than SoL (a tachyon).

...because of how you'd need some magical other source of energy, can't draw on any in the universe itself, and of course a lot of it, to even to this.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 187
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 1/30/2014 10:31:26 AM
Andyaa:

Well if that happened, it would happen to you, you would therefore have no memory of it happening, so in your mind it never happened. For all we know it could be happening all the time, we're just totally oblivious to it

Yea I agree. That would make sense. So therefore it'd be meaningless to "travel back", unless you wanted to see the different way that things would happen. But who would be doing this to see though? I'd figure that it'd have to be a situation wherein a god is doing this. But, the one instance wherein this might not be pointless is if a vehicle or containment field could shelter one from the "re-winding" of everything else. Nonetheless...I think this is all pointless, as well as impossible, for us to think about doing, which is what all this ^ demonstrates.

without memory there is no such thing as time, only entropy

I'm not agreeing with this. Ultimately "memory" is simply any instances where some evidence of an event remains, like a crater left from an impact, and really I think that "memory" or "traces of past information exchange" is intrinsic in any and all energy transformation anyway, whether we as humans can see or interpret such.

Also, according of course to what I'm thinking time is, entropy and time are synonymous. But I'd just say that entropy is simply indicative of the "arrow" facet of time, or vice versa.

By the way, what makes you think that reversing entropy, it's going to follow the same path it came down?

I don't know, I don't think this. Did anyone suggest this? Yes on your statement about the butterfly effect.

But, on this note, I wonder what that would say about causal determinism? Oooh...interesting...
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 188
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 2/2/2014 12:28:53 AM




This allows you to post a previous quote.
But you can only post the quote, not quote the post.
As with time, this frame of reference is different from the one in the next box.
But as you moved to this box from the other one to read what's in this one, you experienced some dilation, as with time.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 189
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 2/3/2014 3:37:55 PM
Heh...my last post was a response to one that isn't there anymore. Maybe someone went back in time and changed history?

Traveling to the future - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM6LdcyinW8
 TOaks91360
Joined: 11/22/2013
Msg: 190
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 2/5/2014 10:47:27 AM
Google John Titor. He apparently traveled from the future. Hoax? Probably.

Researchers recently did an interesting experiment recently. They searched the internet for anything that referenced Comet ISON or the election of Pope Francis before the comet was actually discovered or the pope elected. They found no mention of these items before the dates of discovery or election. The theory was that someone from the future would reference these events in the past before these events occurred.
 basilisk123
Joined: 12/17/2011
Msg: 191
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 3/20/2014 10:15:16 PM
According to the Documentaries I have watched. It has to do with Einstein's theory of relativity. Foward time travel is true and all of us are doing it this instant. Things that go faster have time that ticks away slightly slower. To stop your time to a crawl, you would have to go near a black hole's event horizon without getting pulled in, or go close to the speed of light. Backward time travel is impossible due to a sort of feed back loop that will destroy anything that connects past with present. I think thats the bare bones of it.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 192
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Posted: 3/21/2014 2:57:02 AM
^ All of that is also my opinion and I agree with it...except for the reason that backwards time travel is impossible. It's not impossible because of any feedback loop, but it's impossible because of what time is in the first place, and so what it would take to travel backwards. To truly travel backwards in time, you'd have to "re-set" every single bit of matter and energy in the universe to a previous state - the "past" is not there right now as a place to travel to. It is nonexistent.

While, as you say, forwards time travel already happens all of the time naturally, because it is simply a matter of the relative rate of time's passage being different from one system to another, from one frame of reference to another. Forwards time travel doesn't need a destination of the future to already exist anyway, which doesn't. To the extent that someone imagines traveling forward in time to a certain future time...they would only be slowing down their own time until "arriving" at the future time to then just see what is going on then, but that's all they'd be doing. And there is no going back.
 basilisk123
Joined: 12/17/2011
Msg: 193
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 3/21/2014 3:17:17 AM
Ya, I got the backwards time travel from that documentary were stephen hawking explained the universe a while back. It does sound kind of wonky but made sense to me. The way he explained it was that any residual radiation or energy would be transported with you to the past, and still be there to get sucked up when it comes to the present just to loop once again taking all version of the same energy with it over and over again. It would flood the spot with insane amounts of radiation instantaniously, breaking down anything thats there until either the tunnel or the universe gives way, whichever comes first. Thats my understanding of what he was talking about. Strangely enough there is an exemption according to him. There is a type of particle that can respond to another over any distance simultaneously, at least theoretically.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 194
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 3/21/2014 4:36:38 PM
^ But I still don't get why you say that entropy and entropic moments are different than time - "...stop your time to a crawl, that strictly isn't true. What you are doing is changing the difference between entropic moments". When you speak of entropy, that is part of what time is. The only real importance of the "entropy" aspect specifically has to do with the fact that there is that arrow, that time is moving from higher states to lower states.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 195
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 3/22/2014 6:12:18 AM
Well, that’s the impression I get when you word things like this -


The point is that the rate or amount of energy transformation, or events, is what time is. This is what time is.
No, this is entropy


When you say, stop your time to a crawl, that strictly isn't true. What you are doing is changing the difference between entropic moments

I believe that you’re just making statements about the difference between what time is in general, and the difference between frames, dilation, and rates. But it’s been coming across to me as you saying that enropy has nothing to do with time, or with what time is.

An entropic moment on it's own isn't time. If you are the only remaining elementary particle left in the universe, which is a likely event, no change will happen. You need a 'third party' to record that moment

Wouldn't you only need any secondary frame, or one instance of relating, for time to "be"?

Isn't whether or not a third party is observing or recording a whole different matter from whether or not time is taking place?

It's like quantum events whereby you need an observer in order for the event to take place

You mean that a tree doesn't really fall in the forest if someone isn't there to watch it happen?

It matters not a jot if your elementary particle vibrates left-right or right-left, neither is moving backwards or forwards in 'time', it is just a change relative to the observer

Isn't whether or not the particle is doing this a different matter than whether or not someone is observing?

we just notice the difference as the third party and call it time

Yes, we notice it, and call it time. But if we don't notice it, and call it something, isn't it still happening?

I think one of the more interesting question would be why wasn't the universe created with time as an actual dimension.

Depends on what you mean by "actual" dimension. You mean spatial dimension? How could time possibly have been made a spatial dimension, and why? There are enough dimensions for things to exist. If we need, or could have, an extra dimension, or many extra ones, then we'd just have them. But none of them have to be time, do they? No matter how many we have, we then still have to have something like time, right? And so that's what we have, no?
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 196
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 3/22/2014 9:20:13 AM
Ok, I caught you again doing this...or I'm just not understanding and/or you're not trying very hard to explain...or, you're just messing with me, there's always that possibility -

No entropy is the change in state, time is the difference it takes to make this change relative to another. If the change happens quicker relative to the other, 'time' goes quicker

You need to make up your mind what time really is, or be explicit and concrete in what time is. "the difference it takes to make this change relative to another" is still coming out to be useless. It's possible that you really do mean something, and that what you mean is valid and/or true...but you're just not paying attention to how you're trying to communicate it - and hopefully you won't cop that attitude again that I just ain't smart enough to read your mind or that you aren't "here to teach".

You say that entropy is the change in state. Ok, fine. I'm saying that is what time is. Same thing. I'll say that time is energy flowing through different forms, which is synonymous with entropy, the changing in state...and then you'll say "but no". But what? Entropy is not time because entropy is time? Geezus krist.

And then you talk about the differences in rates of this energy transformation...entropy...change in state...between one system and another...dilation...relation...as if it demonstrates that one thing is true and another thing is false, but I don't know what the hell you're talking about, I don't know what the hell it's showing to be true and showing to be false.


Wouldn't you only need any secondary frame, or one instance of relating, for time to "be"?
Yes, hence the third party... The secondary frame as explained is a third party

Ok, are you telling me that 2 is actually 3? That when you have two, so that there is some difference in relation, a contrast, etc...that really there's 3 and not 2? Which the hell is it? Just like with this next part -


Isn't whether or not a third party is observing or recording a whole different matter from whether or not time is taking place?
No, without something to reference it to a tick to a tock is meaningless. It's the same principle as motion, how fast are you going? With reference to what? If you are the only particle in the universe you have nothing to reference your distance and speed to...

...you state that you need two, but only two is required at minimum, in order for motion or time etc to have meaning or be demonstrated, but then for some reason your 2 becomes 3 again. My question here was about a third party observer, which is different from the 2 relating to each other.

In QM until you observe!... See also the observer effect.

I think that you're confusing what the observer effect really is, just like how people completely misunderstand what the "butterfly effect" is really about. Remember, you as an observer are just another system within the universe. You are not "observing" something any more than any other system is "observing". When the observer effect happens...events being affected by you interacting with them...that's all that's happening - within the ecosystem of cause-and-effect, when you observe something, all that is really happening is that you are becoming part of that particular immediate vicinity of cause-and-effect. You're adding your events to the mix, affecting the ones in question. You don't make something happen a certain way just because you "observed" it, but just because you interacted with it. To you, your interaction is observing, but the universe doesn't care if your interaction has the meaning of observing to you...all that matters is that you interacted your system with another system. The fact that we as humans with brains interpret and contemplate things a certain way has no bearing.

See the anthropic principle and a biocentric universe. Where without humans or intelligent life the universe wouldn't exist and the fact the universe exists with parameters so intelligent life can view it

So, is this what's really going on with you? Is it hard for me to understand what you're trying to say, independent from being able to agree or disagree once I figure out what the hell you're trying to say, actually because you're talking about something else? Because you feel that "without humans or intelligent life the universe wouldn't exist" and "the tree has both fallen and still stands until someone goes to check"? Because you're really talking about observer effects, biocentric universes, anthropic principles, and schrodinger's cat...instead of what time is?

Is stuff like this just piddly arsed attempts to get me to use up my daily post quota so I'll stay out of other threads and not disrupt the wanna-be pimps and sex-groups hook-up code-talk and attempts to recruit the lonely and naive into these activities?
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 197
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 3/22/2014 10:33:53 AM

I'll say that time is energy flowing through different forms, which is synonymous with entropy, the changing in state.


^ I think you are just trying to put "time" into a nice little box, but it doesn't work that way.

You have entropy because there is time
you have time because there is space
It takes time to get from point A to point B

Space & time are essentially the same and go hand in hand
The universe is in a state of expansion, because space is being created in some way (thru dark energy perhaps?)
like time, space is not static.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 198
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 3/22/2014 11:30:56 AM
^ But we're still not getting anywhere with stuff like that ^. You haven't really said anything. I'm trying to put time into a nice little box. Ok. It doesn't work that way. Ok. Please tell why it doesn't work that way. Please tell what the nice little box is, and where I'm going wrong.

We have entropy because we have time. Another way of saying that is that since energy transforms, higher energy states are lost therefore entropy. And?

We have time because there is space. Well, ok. And?

It takes time to get from one point to another. Time to traverse distance...space. And? Energy transformations to move through space...across a distance...to shorten or increase a distance...hhmm, I feel a boggle coming on.

Space & time are essentially the same and go hand in hand...and? This means what, towards what's presently being discussed? What does this mean? That to define time, we say that it's space...and to define space, we say that it's time?

The universe is in a state of expansion, because space is being created in some way. Like time, space is not static. Well, ok, sure...put down the weed and explain what relevance this has, what this stuff means?
 TOaks91360
Joined: 11/22/2013
Msg: 199
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 3/22/2014 12:23:52 PM
If someone discovers going back in time, please let me know asap. All the money I could save and invest by avoiding marriage and investing in Yahoo. Thanks!
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 200
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Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 3/23/2014 7:45:57 AM
Well darn. All of that wasn't necessary. There isn't disagreement where you think there is. I understand all that...but there's also a sad miscommunication. "That isn't what I was talking about". Dagnabit.
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