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 FreschFisch
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 134
First Date Expectations - Over 50Page 5 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
Id never do this myself but..

I do know guys who operate that way. No I don't approve..

Some men actually believe it increase their chances and believe it when I tell you that there are many women out there that are fine with it because thats all they want you to do!

How does a guy get his tongue down your throat if you aren't kissing him on your first date? Im not suggesting just asking.. Are you sending signals? Maybe pre-date sexts? Lots of girls do that. I think its pretty retarded before I meet you but I'll play back. Wouldn't dream of pursuing it though in reality unless it was indicated in person. Some just don't know the difference between sexts and real life.

Sorry for your bad experience. Hope it doesn't happen often.
 nativerock
Joined: 10/16/2010
Msg: 136
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/19/2012 2:17:58 PM

Its getting to a point where you either wear battle iron or just give up on dating altogether.Sigh.........


Have to agree since more than half the men I met I needed armor.. I no longer date off the internet because I was really developing a very negative attitude.. Nothing like getting new baggage you really did not want.. Luckily my new baggage did not last more than a few months and I was ready to date again.. However this time it was not going to be with anyone I met online.. Now I just date those I met a various parties and functions. I get to see them first and talk to them in person, which is a huge plus point.. None of them expected dessert at my place after dinner..
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 138
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/19/2012 4:01:49 PM
We have to use common sense when dating anyone we meet in any situation, not just online dating. I have had meet and greets and lunch/dinner dates with a few dozen men I met online and I haven't run into a single one that had any overt expectations or groped me or said anything untoward. I think this is more the norm than thousands of cads out there.

As Vallievoom has pointed out in hundreds of posts (under different names and ages) all men online are cruisers, losers and users is untrue. This is like making a general statement that all women online lie about their age by 10 years, are frigid, only want men for their money only to toss them aside when they get what they want. One or two bad apples in an gender should not tarnish the rest.

I agree with some posters that we need to pay attention to the little details, ask questions and hone our picking skills. This goes for both genders.
 onehappyfellow
Joined: 9/21/2008
Msg: 139
view profile
History
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/19/2012 6:37:28 PM
I used to teach self defense including a course for women on how to handle boors. A very attractive lady friend - worked in cosmetics - used to have a guy would sit next to her in the company cafeteria and put his hand on her upper thigh with an inappropriate and unwelcome squeeze. He persisted in this behaviour in spite of being told hands off.

I showed her a two finger pick up and let her practice on me. I gave because I knew it would be painful.

He came into the cafeteria sat down beside her with his usual gesture, instead of objecting she move in closer to him as if reaching for his hand, took two fingers and threw him across the room. She was somewhat embarrassed because she didn't expect it to be that effective. He also was embarrassed but never did it again.

One for the ladies.
 classicone09
Joined: 12/20/2011
Msg: 140
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/20/2012 3:00:15 PM
Well you should have kneed him, slapped him, or walked away. Just dont hold it against us. Not all men are that way!
 That_girl*
Joined: 9/29/2008
Msg: 141
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/21/2012 11:47:48 AM
it's not just a certain age range or race trust me 18yr-80yr theres all kinds of men who will say or do all kinds of stupid things wether it be first date or many years later in a relationship...
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 142
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/21/2012 12:09:23 PM

That_girl*:
It's not just a certain age range or race trust me 18yr-80yr there's all kinds of men who will say or do all kinds of stupid things whether it be first date or many years later in a relationship...


That's not a Male or Female trait, but a human trait. On a first date there may not be a second, but in a LTR, you work through those times if you want to save it.
 risingmist
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 143
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/28/2012 6:56:09 PM
Unwanted touch is 3rd degree assault and actionable. It is illegal. That man is a predator freak and most likely does much worse when there are no witnesses around. I had a horrid date with a man who drank alot at the cafe and kept reaching across the table to bop me on the arm! I told him to stop touching me and he said I was a "hater." I got up and left.

Sorry you had that experience. Woudn't it have been nice to empty a can of mace in his face?

Good grief, what a monster.
 risingmist
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 144
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/28/2012 7:03:29 PM
I went to dinner with an older man once. It wasn't fun, he spent the whole dinner talking about his mother! He then revealed he lived with her! So afterwards I was beelining to the door. As we said goodbye he dived at me trying to kiss me. Had enough time only to turn my head so he got my cheek. I stopped and let me walk ahead of me, etc.
 risingmist
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 145
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/28/2012 7:17:17 PM
I was talking with a man the other day and it was a good conversation. Then he suddenly asked me how many men I had had sex with. I responded that I don't discuss that topic with a stranger. He then asked me if I wanted to go to dinner and I said no and why. It is hard to imagine the thought processes of these people. I mean, they wake up and think "how can I cope a feel today, hmmmm...?" Hurl!

One of my college roommates was raped on her first date with a friend of the family, someone everyone had known for 15 years or more. She became pregnant and it was altogether horrific. This man fooled everyone and no amount of pre-knowing him, indicated he was capable of this. It was her first sexual experience, with an insane rapist.

It is a shame that some men think that simply because a woman agrees to meet a man, that that indicates it is open season!
 risingmist
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 146
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/28/2012 7:29:07 PM
I ran for the bathroom once to avoid a hidious (and huge) man and was stunned when he began to bang on the door (in a very crowded coffee shop) and call out my name! I stayed behind the locked door until it got quiet then emerged with my cell phone plastered to my ear and headed out the door. I have found that some behavior can be stopped by raising the phone and calling out 911, 911, 911. The indicator that these perv balls know what they are doing is wrong, is when it stops immediately with the threat of police action.

I have also turned to people around me to ask them directly if they will help me get safely out the door. And they assist. One man offered to stand there until I was in my car, which was great.
 TryAgan
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 147
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History
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/28/2012 7:38:08 PM
^^^
It seems that you are meeting disproportionate number of bad guys. Either too many dates or poor screening.
 gagn1
Joined: 11/24/2008
Msg: 148
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/28/2012 8:09:45 PM
WE men either suffer from ED or we are pervs! Go figure.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 149
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/28/2012 10:49:40 PM

risingmist
To many problem dates to quote.


I have to ask, "what's the common denominator in your equation?" You seem to have problems with lots of men, but I bet it's all someone Else's fault. But we come back to that simple question. Why do you attract all these problems?
 BlackLady1953
Joined: 5/27/2011
Msg: 150
view profile
History
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/29/2012 7:06:47 AM
I find it creepy that any man (or woman) would want to have sex or suggest it -- with someone they just met on a "first date." Anyone like that -- kick 'em to the curb -- because if they don't have any concern for their own sexual health, you know for damn sure that they don't care about yours...
 russell5417
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 151
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/29/2012 9:05:25 AM
You should have had him arrested..... sounds like you were on a date with a sex offender.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 152
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/29/2012 1:41:08 PM
Well I might as well get in trouble today! I have a different take on this thread! I had some time this afternoon, so I went through the WHOLE thread. I like to understand how people think.

Personally I would rename the thread, "the trained seal" thread! Instead of "First Date Expectation- Over 50"

No I don't think groping is OK on first date. He11 I don't think groping is appropriate until both parties want to do that sort of thing. Let's face it, sex is part and parcel of dating, the key is when will that happen and who wants what and when. I doubt for the vast majority of daters, sex doesn't play a role somewhere in their thoughts.

Obviously there are men who think this behavior is appropo, and will do it anytime they get the opportunity. I imagine they lack social customs and norms. Probably very unlucky dating IRL. Online they are able to get to a place where they can get a date, then try their shenanigans.

Anyway, the reason for going through the thread, was to see reactions and try and understand them. The results of the 7 pages, 160 posts is this:

10 women had this experience
6 women said they didn't
49 women condemned it, but made no mention of an incident.
1 woman said she had many experiences, or friends had, while nobody groped her, it was all men over 50 who were disgusting.

On the mens side we had a universal reaction, of dismay, horror and of course denial.

Of course, as the invictives grew stronger,the men became more apologetic for their sinful brothers, OR acting like trained seals, begging for a fish(or date in this case).

While that maybe 10 women to many, given the number of posts, the number of views(since I think most women who read this and had the experience, would have a visceral reaction and post) I found the thread to be just another way in which women choose to punish ALL men, for the sins of the few.

Rarely through this whole diatribe, did I see a woman say "most men are good", no they just continued to lament and bash the various descriptions of pig, garbage, and all the other choice descriptions they had for men.

So please someone(woman) explain to me, what this changed? Do you think those gropers will change their ways? Do you think the men who apologized profusely, made any of those groped women feel any better for the experience they suffered?
 TryAgan
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 153
view profile
History
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/29/2012 2:06:37 PM

10 women had this experience
6 women said they didn't
49 women condemned it, but made no mention of an incident.
1 woman said she had many experiences, or friends had, while nobody groped her, it was all men over 50 who were disgusting.


And so far - over 10,000 lurkers in total (or page impressions)

Thank you for breaking it down, OyWay.
We could use such a summary on each thread (although, I bet the ratio wouldn't change much).
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 155
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/29/2012 3:31:13 PM
So please someone(woman) explain to me, what this changed?


It CHANGED nothing.

However, it allowed the OP to vent,it gave other participants(of both genders) who've been the target of unsolicited groping-a place to vent.
It gave other people food for thought/something to be aware of. For those who have (thus far) managed to miss the dubious delight of being pawed by a stranger in a public place,it gave cause to thank their lucky stars.


had some time this afternoon, so I went through the WHOLE thread.

I hope that you did not come away with the impression that Adventures in Modern Dating is overrun with creeps,idiots and ditzy females. I hope you were not unduly traumatized by the experience.


as the invictives grew stronger,


If I don't do it, I bet Gwen will-I believe the word you want there is"invective. I'm not sure what invictives are.I do know of a pretty good poem -"Invictus"-by W.E.Henley- surely you remember it...
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
....?
ah, but I digress-


another way in which women choose to punish ALL men,


Oh, no. Oh HELL no-punishing all men would be way too much like work for very little cause. Again, I think one function of this thread was a venue for venting by the OP and others who've had similar experiences.


Rarely through this whole diatribe, did I see a woman say "most men are good",

Perhaps some of us presumed that that was a given-that it went without saying. I'm not going to read back thru the whole thread, but off the top of my head I don't recall a definite concensus that the OP should immediately stop trying to date unless she was prepared to accept being groped-or worse-because ALL men are horndogs.

Nobody expects this thread to change anything.

If causing change is a requirement for a thread,they might as well shut the forums down.
It's a place to share experiences. If the OP is like a lot of the women here, she doesn't have a lot of female friends who are single and dating, to check out the veracity of the offenders' claim that
C'mon. You're no virgin. What's with the games??"
was the norm,or whether it was something that women over 50 must accept. Maybe she just wanted to know if she needs a firearm( or bear-strength pepper spray) for her dating adventures?

I suspect that mostly she wanted to VENT.
Perhaps she hoped to also pick up some insights and I bet she certainly hoped to hearn that her experience is NOT the norm in dating. Of course its' not-she simply happened to connect with a clinker.

In fact, in the OT she does NOT mention having met the man here on PoF or any other dating site. I suspect that this is the case,but we don't know that,do we? His behavior certainly seems to be that of someone who still thinks all internet dating is about hookups, not real dating. But again, the OP didn't specify.
Cindy O
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 156
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/29/2012 3:46:01 PM
I apologize for the spelling faux pas, sorry I thought I had proofed it all.

I understand venting, as you are all too aware of, I do it all the time! Along with adding the occassional opinion. Funny though we embrace that legal concept of "presumed innocent until proven guilty", it rarely comes across that way on the forums by the tenor of the posts.

I try and see both sides of any issue. Given that, I also try and encourage those who act correctly from time to time.

While you may take exception to what I wrote, I will stand by what I said. No, I am never traumatized, usually just disappointed.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 157
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/29/2012 4:09:35 PM
Back before I met my late wife I was pretty heavy in the local bar scene and there were a few women I met during that time. I would dance with them and they would invite me back to their group. Many times they would 'dirty dance' during slow songs, make out with me including using their tongue, and grope or fondle me. All actions they would initiate, but come closing time, leave me there with 'blue balls'.

It happens to enough guys that they have a term for those women, we'd call them 'pr!ck teasers', but we didn't going crying about them. Those women were just the 'price of admission' if you wanted to play those games or hang out at those places.

I'm not a woman and I don't understand what they got out of playing their games. It sure wasn't a lot of money spent on them, and I don't think it was enough to get them off.
 1388SmartBlonde
Joined: 5/15/2011
Msg: 158
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/29/2012 9:33:11 PM
Dear OP:

1) Groping you without your consent is sexual assault (date rape)...Next time that happens, tell him to stop right now or you will call the police and have him charged with assault. That will either get his attention or it will get him arrested.

2) Cell phone and pepper spray or a stun gun...don't leave home without them. One in four women are sexually assaulted...date rape doesn't just happen to college girls.

3) If he tries to shame you for saying no, tell him you don't have sex with animals and end the date.
 Plenty_of_FreeTime
Joined: 10/26/2011
Msg: 159
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 2/29/2012 10:06:05 PM
To the OP,(didn't read all 7 pages),but was this a POF generated date?
If so,the D-bag s/b outed to protect other potential victims.
 Darkbutcomely
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 160
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 3/1/2012 1:45:33 AM
It's also technically a class A misdemeanor, at least in Texas.


NOW you tell me.
 NarcissusTemple
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 161
First Date Expectations - Over 50
Posted: 3/2/2012 10:27:39 AM
This thread is fascinating in that it represents the two divergent styles of male/female communication detailed in Deborah Tannen's research.
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-09-23/news/vw-1412_1_author-deborah-tannen

Oyvay asked what this thread has changed. IOW, is the problem being solved?
Probably looks like a male-bashing party without the "most men are good" position being unrepresented.
This is a very typical male agenda--to solve problems.

Lady4c nailed it as a venting thread.
This is a very typical female agenda--to bond through blabber--support, share stories.

Men typically view the female communication style as lacking results.
Women typically view the male communication style as lacking sensitivity/understanding.

Here's another possible perspective on this genre of threads:
After having been broadsided by a drunk cyclist while driving, I had an irrational fear that cyclists were waiting in the wings ready to charge through intersections.
The experience was confusing and traumatizing. I thought it might have been me who made the mistake and hit him.
But he was drunk and rode through the intersection on a red light.

Similarly, the OP was shocked by her date's insolence.
I can understand her questioning men in general, however irrational it is to extrapolate to the whole.
She was violated, then accused of prudishness. Add insult to injury--the guy was a complete @ss.
She came online to check in with others' experiences.

So to the OP and Oyvay, MOST men will not behave this way.
And if your experience is repeated over and again, then, more likely, it is YOU who is picking rotten people.
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