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 AUTHOR
 ~Hams~
Joined: 9/18/2008
Msg: 8
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
There was no need to knock anybody Iain who enjoys watching Eastenders or the X factor.

It would be a boring society if we were only allowed to be into or discuss politics and current affairs.

I don't consider the UK is an emerging police state as we are a democratic country and always will be.

Can you imagine living somewhere like in Syria where over 3,000 people have been murdered?

At least we can vote governments in or out whenever there is a general election every 4 years or so.

Its a sad fact that we are at war with Islamic fundamentalists at the moment who want
to destroy us and the west however it hasn't stopped some of them living here and claiming our benefits.
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 9
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/19/2011 12:34:09 PM
nowt wrong with a police state in fact if done in the right way i would roll out the red carpet and welcome it in and why?

look through the crime that is happening, would it be happening under a state that had the death penalty, european human rights etcs whilst those who drift outside the law as in go 35 mph in a 30 are punished yet shop lifters, anti social behavior and abuse is delt with less harshly?

for a person such as myself i expect the same as anyone else to live in peace and quiet, no crime, no worrying if your car is getting vandalized or clamped, goto work, pub the weekend without arseholes ruining for everyone ..... if it takes a police state to do this then gets my vote and support straight away.
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 10
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/19/2011 1:22:14 PM
I agree we are already living in a police state, we're just to busy believing what the papers tell us to believe to even realise it most of the time

And rather than living in a democracy first of all we DONT and never have lived in a democracy, infact there isnt a single democratic country on the planet as democracy is a null concept, and an ideology that cant function in the real world

We actually live in an oligarchy, which isnt that different to a dictatorship except that every so many years you get to democraticaly elect a new dictator. Once elected the democratic view counts for nothing as we see time and time again

And considering that all parties with any chance of ever being elected are funded at both a party and a candidate level by the same groups of companies and rich individuals irrespective of their claimed or alleged political leanings then who ever actually gets into power is irrelevant, as theyre already bought and paid for in advance anyway


One of the few countries in the world that actually has something still resembling any working form of democracy is the french, because if they dont like what their government is doing they actively take action and at least try to force them to change it which is why they have a far better level of public services, health care, employment rights and welfare system than us. Fairer taxation and stricter immigration controls

It really is a case of each population getting the governance that it "deserves", and the apathy and divisional spite we exhibit in the UK is what has got us exactly the type of government we deserve because we dont have enough backbone, pride or integrity to demand anything better
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 12
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/19/2011 1:30:58 PM

Thats called living in a dream world


but why should it be though? ...... i mean they bang on about human rights and yet some people just want the basics, goto work, quiet nights and a few drinks at the weekend. nothing thats out of jim will fix it program, just i dare say what the majority want in the county or is that to much for something to ask?
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/19/2011 1:51:37 PM
The death penalty only tends to be a deterrant for crimes of choice and greed, and even then it still comes down to the chances of getting caught

Crimes of passion and crimes bourne out of desperation or frustration will happen no matter what the penalty

And its often that which is overlooked when people wheel out the US to disprove the effectiveness of the death penalty

Despite being (effectively) one of the richest and most technological countries on the planet the US has around 60 million people (probably far higher now) who cant afford any type of healthcare, 1 in 6 people live below the governments own threshold of poverty, so chances are that a more realistic rather than a government decided threshold would put that percentage far higher

Immigration continues to push down the lowest wage rates, and while all this is going on freedoms are being systematically eroded and the richest 5$'s wealth is increasing rapidly


Thats why they have so much crime, and the death penalty alone doesnt address any of the reasons for having so much crime, it just punishes the symptoms more harshly
 MiaCat74
Joined: 3/3/2011
Msg: 17
Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/19/2011 4:49:45 PM
I think quite a lot of it is blown all out of preportion

Lots of people freak out about the idea of BB watching us
But for a long time I worked in data analysis and I know that there is no way that the government can actually follow the amount of data they are supposed to be gathering

CCTV I have no problem at all with - if you aint doing anything wrong then you wont even be noticed
and if they need to find what you were up to later it takes a massive amount of work to look for 1 person on CCTV

Sectarian stuff - about time it was clamped down on
Im in Glasgow

To be honest I am raging that I am stuck in traffic as people march for their supposed religious beliefs, football ties up a huge amount of the police and gridlocks the city - not to mention how intimidating getting a train or bus is when the fans come out

But the anual Zombie walk which has been great fun and no trouble at all has been refused this year because of fear of gatherings of people kicking off like happend in the summer

So yes in some respects we are too policed - but in many other ways the police are scared to actually do anything
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 18
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/19/2011 5:17:29 PM
Unless you worked somewhere like Joderal bank which obviously you didnt as even mentioning what role you held there, or even that you did work there can get you 10 years in prison if you pissed off the wrong people then you wouldnt know what ability for data manipulation there is or isnt in place

Software to track individuals by their face even when wearing a disguise has been in use for well over a decade, and within the same kind of period software that can recognise an individual by their gait and other mannerisms has also been in use

All major camera networks also have prioritised feeds to government agencies which includes traffic, bank and social surveillance systems and for a few years now the next stage in speed camera technology has been being trialed which will be able to track cars through any publicly accessible camera networks and then calculate the minimum speed for the entire journey similar to the average speed camera software being used on some motorways and roadworks

So although the processing power isnt yet high enough to track every persons movement the software and access we already have can track any "individual" that is flagged quite effectively just based on what is known to be in use, which tends to be a hell of a lot less than what is actually in use

As the OP pointed out, we have for several years had the ability to scan all emails, phone calls, and text messages and all service providers by law had to install secure routers to make this available

Most western countries also have restriction protocols in place which mean with one order all TV, radio,internet, land and mobile phone communication can be cut off instantly and that equipment has also been in place for quite a few years too

The problem isnt so much that you dont have to worry if you havent done anything wrong as that you might have to worry if you "seem" like you have done something wrong or seem like you "might" be about to as power tends to have an annoying habit of being overused and used incorrectly or for the wrong reasons as shown repeatedly throughout history
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/20/2011 6:25:44 AM
I was born in and spent many of my younger years in an largely Irish immigrant community with the most horrendous poverty, crime and depravation that could be found in the town where I was born. We learnt from an early age that the police were little, if any, different from the criminals. Many of the drugs sold in our community came from the police impound, most people took a kicking off them at one time or another and crimes were attributed to people who had clearly not committed them just so that the arrest and clear up rates looked better than they actually were.

Although I am over fifty, I have seen nothing since to change my opinion of them. They were used as a gang of vicious thugs against the miners and were partially militaried by the government then. They are used to this day as a semi militarty arm of the government to suppress dissent and protest as we have seen many times recently. There has been over 1,000 people die in police custody and not a single officer has ever faced charges as a result.

I don't trust the police and I never will........
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/20/2011 8:07:33 AM
Something that many people dont actually seem aware of is that any pubic service employee when the system if full up and running will be able to view your email history, bank and credit card histories, what bills you have, when you do or dont pay them, direct debits, what vehicles you own, whether theyre insured, taxed, MOT'd, what magazines you subscribe to, what clubs youre a member of, what crimes you have committed etc etc

And that information will eventually be available to any civil servant working in any department from the police all the way down to the person on the counter of the council tax office which is a marathon of steps too far
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/20/2011 4:50:20 PM
Actually, re the ability to declare a state of emergency, the US is still IN the same state of emergency declared after 9/11

Every 6 months the current president has maintained the initial declaration, and although the senate is bound by law to question the validity of it being declared between the 3 and 6 month perid its never been challenged so the current president still has the emergency measures to use if he wanted to that were invoked in 2001 unless its finally been laid to rest in the last 6 months or so which I very much doubt
 qedeshim
Joined: 4/18/2008
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/23/2011 9:49:16 AM
Maybe some ought to check the legislation passed during the Blair years. It might not be a police state, but don't push too hard as the authorities just have to implement the pre existing laws.

Remember we are just at best 2 weeks away from total anarchy. IF the BANKS shut, because their frauds made them insolvent, how long before the money ran out, the businesses could not restock, food became scarce and the rest.

The fuel strikes a few years ago almost took up to the brink of both economic and social collapse, or did you miss that?

The banks, as Brown states have two kinds of accounts, one you sort of are aware of, and then there are the OFF BOOK accounts as our Prime minister stated. So two sorts of debt, where the mugs, the citizens, the taxpayers, to zombies allow themselves to be ripped off and the money given to the bankrupt banks?

Who runs the economy the government or the banks, Who runs the money supply, the government or the banks?

The banks would never allow the people to have a real say, and would use the machinery to defend their position. Money has no conscience!
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 10/25/2011 7:27:35 AM
Another key aspect of a police state is where the police rather than being servants of the PEOPLE, start to become a force to enforce the governments will against the people and where said government erodes basic civil rights and liberties so the police are legally allowed to outstep their origional remit

Its where freedom of speech becomes the freedom to say what the governments wants people to say, and where anything else becomes criminalised

Where the freedom to support any legal and legitimate political party can lead to discrimination in the workplace

Where the basic meaning of words is altered to suit political ends and to criminalise viewpoints by incorrect useage and modified definitions

Where privacy becomes a null concept and where being held without charge becomes commonplace

And more importantly, where governance becomes as transparent as stone to the people being governed
 Soul Union
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 33
Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 1/17/2013 11:42:29 PM
First of all we DONT and never have lived in a democracy, infact there isnt a single democratic country on the planet. --- mikewm


Well done, Mike.

I was beginning to think everyone was blinded by this 'we live in a democracy BS,' but I see someone has the ability to see through the veil.

Here in New Zealand, where I live, unfortunately, we live in a democracy. What does it mean? Shit all. That's what it means. The only democratic ingredient you have is the tyrant you vote into Parliament. From then on you do as you are told. If they put the tax rate up, you pay it and shut up. If they tell you not to spank your out-of-control child, you do as the Government tells you or go to jail and lose your children. If they put property taxes up, you pay it and shut up. If they increase GST (VAT in Britain) you just pay it and bite your lip. If MPs decide to put their salaries up yet again (and it happens here at an alarming rate) there's nothing you can do. If they take their wives, children and Uncle Tom Cobley and All with them on their taxpayer-funded holidays, you keep your mouth and don't make waves. You don't have a voice. You think you do because you 'live in a democratic country,' but that's just an illusion. The facts speak for themselves.

The amount of people who are leaving New Zealand to relocate to Australia is, quite frankly, frightening. The number is at a record, all-time high. Agreed, Australia is not exactly the land of milk and honey it used to be, but my God, it's far and away a better country than this dump, this democracy, where the tiny minority rules the majority and tell the rest of us how to live.

Oh yes, here's to democracy.

- Soul.

["In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."]
--- George Orwell
 algha
Joined: 2/8/2007
Msg: 37
Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 2/10/2013 4:10:55 PM
It seems too many people here have been influenced by media interpretations of what a police state really is. Where populations are generally ill informed such a process can be advanced with speed, but in the UK for instance that would showing one's hand too soon. Too soon would result in failure, therefore with a better informed population one introduces it through stealth.

One takes advantage of situations, pretending to protect the population normally based on a past incident, which becomes a present and potential threat in the future. One manipulates through utilising fears, fear of the unknown, the possible. So over a couple of decades or more, laws are modified, ideas of crimes revised, keeping the potential threat, to persons, way of life and civilisation itself, in the forefront of people's minds. Thus the constructed threats become accepted as normal.

We need crime in this country to frighten the voters, who are the educated classes in the main. Policy makers reduce police numbers, reduce the income to the unemployed, needy and poor, thus incentivising some of them to make up the balance. The threat is encouraged, allowing new laws to deal with the threats which were created by authorities to begin with.

It is easy to blind people with misinformation, making opinion seem facts, and lie consistently enough about anything, and it becomes a reality. We can all look back to the 45 minute threat Blair knew was a lie, but it was encouraged to stimulate fears, with obvious media complicity. The sheep did nothing, although the largest demonstration in history occurred, it was brushed aside by certain interests, as it was not seen as a threat to their authority.

What I am attempting to state is that lies are the norm, and realised one has been duped after the event, is too late. Nothing can then be done. One either attempts to prevent crime, or allows it to happen, and thus we are then all complicit, part of an unspoken agreement, to be ruled by our betters. Sadly our elected betters are worse than we are, easily corrupted by money as the expensed scandal exposed. We are now trust liars, cheats, and frauds, who run the economy, worry about our health thus slowly destroying health and education, all for our benefit of course, as we like the animals in Orwell's "Animal Farm" mutter at best, and allow the corruptions to continue.

When government and corporations collude to defraud the people, as has been done in the UK, then what we are experiencing is more soft fascism. Its not overt with people being dragged at night from their homes because they criticised their government or were influencing others into detrimental thinking. That is far in the future, as the foundations have to be laid first, and these foundations are psychologically shaping opinion, and that takes time.
 phonixmusic
Joined: 1/4/2013
Msg: 38
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 2/10/2013 5:09:12 PM
get yourself a little army together and try overthrow the goverment.tis better than whinging and gobbing off aboot somthing you cannot change.


The thing is we CAN change it. The powers that be WANT you to think you can't, therefore fostering a feeling of apathy. Do you really think they want everybody who can to go out and vote in elections? The more apathetic and passive the masses are, the easier it is for them to erode our rights and freedoms.
Mentioning Eastenders, X Factor and any other 'reality' (don't make me laugh) show and/or celebrity gossip are relevant, because they are expressly designed to keep us preoccupied with meaningless trivia/tittle tattle while they go about making decisions that will have a major impact on ALL our lives literally unnoticed.

Arguing over which 'personality' fronts whichever political party, is an exercise in futility. It matters not who is the leader of whatever party, the puppetmasters always win every election.
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 39
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 8/20/2016 2:25:04 AM
well this thread is from a few years ago, and boy has the country changed, including my own views ....

only have to read a couple of stories in the paper for that to happen

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3749612/Dragged-classroom-Shut-cell-day-Not-allowed-call-parents-did-police-lock-schoolgirl-word-fantasist.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3748527/Shunned-family-living-woods-Sex-ban-father-two-forced-tell-police-24-hours-liaison-despite-cleared-rape-goes-court-challenge-order.html

a person whose never been convicted has to give the police 24 hours notice before he has sex with someone? i accept his fantasy's are not the usual run of the mill but who are people to judge, especially if his partner enjoys that as much as he does?
 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 40
Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 8/20/2016 4:35:25 AM
The oft-trotted out reason 'it's for the public good' is facile in the extreme.
This is about control, not law & order.
I'm old enough now to have watched the crawling rise of State Power
for long enough to have a fair idea of where this is going, and we will
sleepwalk in to it ..............

 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 42
Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 8/20/2016 7:12:08 AM
I'm guessing that she's already had enough of conversations with Authority to last a lifetime.

 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 43
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Posted: 8/20/2016 7:15:53 AM
The polis are now more acting like an occupying army rather than public servants. I mind reading this in the tory supporting magazine the spectator. It is quite chilling that some daftie is being paid to monitor what folk say online.

Folk being jailed in scotland for singing a song. I do not like rangers or their fans. They are called the huns with good reason. But. Jailing over a song!!!!!!!...........


"A Rangers fan who was arrested for sectarian singing while on his way to attend a game against Celtic has been jailed for four months.
Scott Lamont, from Glasgow, was heard singing the words of the Billy Boys song on Cathcart Road on 1 February."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-31856341


And mind your tweets up here folks because someone at somepoint in the future may take offence.............


"Times in which the state’s officers – for such is McPlod – believe they are entitled to monitor your every conversation, your every outburst, your every opinion for evidence that someone, somewhere in Scotland might be offended by your views. Nor is it too extreme to observe that this satisfies, in its essentials, the definition of a surveillance state.

Notionally, there is “a high threshold test to be met” but when you look at it this threshold is so low a Dachshund could clear it. Thus, “In some instances the context in which the comments are made will weigh in favour of prosecutors being so satisfied, for instance where comments are made following a particular incident, national tragedy or catastrophic event.”

I remind you that the law as written and enforced allows for the creation of entirely fictitious or imaginary people who might have been offended had they existed and had they been present to hear the alleged criminal offences (songs, chiefly) being committed. You may think I exaggerate. If only that were the case. To wit, the High Court has ruled that:

[T]he sheriff does not appear to have considered the effect of section 1(5). That subsection provides that for the purposes of section 1(1)(b)(ii), behaviour “would be likely to incite public disorder” if public disorder would be likely to occur but for the fact that […] persons likely to be incited to public disorder are not present or are not present in sufficient numbers.

Remember, too, that a Scottish government minister was forced to clarify whether singing the national anthem might be reckoned a sectarian offence under the terms of this fat-headed bill."

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/01/scotland-no-country-for-free-speech/
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
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Posted: 8/21/2016 4:47:13 AM
its almost the same down here vlad with the football, remember the uproar of the yid army songs?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/fa-probe-tottenham-hotspur-fans-5423685

again not my team but shows how the state and establishment are taking over and the british public are wondering around in a day dream ..... i would of thought the establishment would take heed after the eu vote, and even thought it would of been rigged to do so, think the british elections cant be rigged? just look at the postal/proxy system, again will the police investigate it? or even send some owe to jail over it? .... not really!! but dont pay your council tax/tv licence etc and the state comes down on you big style.

as for the young girl in the mail article, im sure her admiration of the force is gone for good, same as the family and friends wont regard them highly in future, that im sure.

if you want some really interesting reading and watching, watch this, even though its american it shows how power is held over the public and we are all drones, plebs etc. brought up to do as the state says, get the big house, 2.4 children and 2 heavily financed german cars on the road with the holiday twice a year for being good.

http://themindunleashed.org/2016/03/a-must-see-message-for-the-masses.html

at some point you have to ask whose controlling the state? after all they have orders to carry out and its not from the primeminister or parliament i promise you? is it from the rich list? .... nope, the ones who control it all are not on the rich list, think about it? where are the rothschilds, rockerfellas, jp morgan, goldman sacs on the rich lists?
 JustinElle
Joined: 4/11/2015
Msg: 45
Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 8/27/2016 8:21:20 AM
So in the discussion so far seems to involve the loonies who want a quick laugh, and those that provide evidence to back up their arguments....sadly the loonies are not really to be blames, as informative education it mainly through the media, and tabloids that peddle the educational propaganda they are so fond of repeating like well trained parrots.

Another question to further this discussion is why we are becoming an official police state, or as it is for others either an emerging or a covert police state. We have been informed by our tabloid friends we have choices, we are free to watch TV shows we like, and buy stuff we can afford, which is free enough for their interesting lives.

There is a need for the tools of the state, used through police enforcement to exercise more control. Who or what runs the state? Might it be wealth, personal and corporate, and we all know that wealth and the exercise of power are linked.

We live in society ruled by the power of money. What you earn, allows people different freedoms, such as in education, health, housing, and goods. For most people wages have been static or have noticeably fallen since the banks rigged and crashed the markets. No one has been held accountable or gone to prison for this disaster, or the billions paid in fines for the many frauds of the financial establishment. So there are legal freedoms for some that are above the law and in some cases draconian penalties for the rest of us.

So who pays the piper calls the tune. The pipers are the politicians, the media, and corporate interests pay the piper, and we the rest dance to their horrendous tunes of food banks, poor education, restricted access to health, lack of social amenities. What is called affordable housing is really propaganda for being in debt. Debts are the new form of chains people are encouraged to shackle themselves to. This now starts at the age of 18 where university education is now more a business model than providing opportunity to real career jobs. The amount of quality jobs, work that pay good wages with a future, is declining fast, as the university debt interest increases for the profitable privitised student loan institution. Student debt is the only debt that bankruptcy cannot and does not clear.

So the debtors, the financially challenged, require a police force to enforce additional charges against miscreants. Society at large must not overtly complain as it might educate or make others aware of the real social situation. Those that escape into their own form of happiness through alcohol or drugs are criminalised, helping the increasingly privatised corporate legal and incarceration industries flourish, which provide minimum wages for those lucky enough to find employment looking after or creating criminals.

People getting together to discuss the state of society are automatically seen as the enemy within, as ideas need to be controlled, some crushed, and thinking aloud these day is far more dangerous than in previous generations. The wage slaves monitor, regulate the airwaves, telephone and data, records are stored indefinitely as it can or could be used against an individual in the future. Those that have nothing to hide, have children, relatives, and are thus open to blackmail by any authority as we are all interlinked. So lots of opportunities to exploit the minimum wage, in our surveillance culture watching and controlling the great unwashed.

So its the corporate control of all our lives, protecting profits through poor wages, while exploiting the rest in a multitude of different ways. It is thanks to the Nazis, the East German Stazi who both provided the blueprint for total social control, where efficiency, control of wastage, time management, and other bureaucracies are now the new revised corporate management models for increasing profits and exploitation of both individuals and state. We all need watching, we all have to pay, cheating for ordinary people is subject to punishments, thus increasing further revenue and profits for the private sector. For an example of one aspect of corporate exploitation, Parking, speeding, motoring competence, all need monitoring to exploit it through fabricated legal constructs for corporate profit. Its all about robbing the poor and watching the money and tax money we all pay go into corporate coffers so the those at the top can gloat at their ingenuity at screwing the rest of us.

So its why a police state is required, not where we are in the creation of a police state...SURELY?
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 46
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Do You Think the UK is an Emerging Police State?
Posted: 8/27/2016 10:01:28 AM
applaud you greatly for you post justinelle and enjoyed reading it :)

but your right of cause and if people realise whats happening, maybe the state would be controlled by the people .... though has if ever been? not in this country and dont think it ever will.

there was a quote from the film cliff hanger from the villain something along the line of "kill one man, your a murderer, kill a million men and your a conquer .... go figure" which is indeed correct, people want evidence?

one man goes in to the local marks and sparks and nicks a couple of items, he gets caught, up before the beak and given punishment.

one man controls the banking industry, rigs the markets, gains millions and up before the queen, gains a knight hood.

try explaining that to a child how its all fair?

could even go as far as asking basic questions, why does the state/councils/police spend resources at people parking incorrectly, living in a different school area or installing cctv any way possible ..... yet do nothing again to those that set up ponzi schemes, robbing the taxpayer with wink wink contracts and share fiddling.

wonders what it will be like in 30 years time, all micro chipped, no cash, every transaction going through the banks as will be law to do so, all those who oppose with have transactions taking off them and cast aside etc
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