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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 226
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline DelayedPage 10 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)

Um, I didn't say anything against solar and wind. I don't think you needed to add the smart azz comment about facts. But carry on.


You said there where no alternative sources and I quickly showed that you where wrong.

No need to get testy when someone points out your errors now.



And I don't know about you but my car doesn't run on wind or solar and neither do the other gazillion vehicles on the road right now.


Which is because oil won the propaganda battle many moons ago, and since then the tax payers have been giving oil an advantage.




Cars like the Tesla make up a very, very small market. I don't see too many houses with solar panels either...there are some and more all the time as well as more wind turbines on the landscape. They're just not everywhere.


They are not everywhere because they are not afforded the same advantages and subsidies that oil is.




When the likes of David Suzuki give up flying around the world and give up their mansions...all the while preaching "green"...I will think about getting an electric car. Meanwhile I will keep putting gas in my small car and motorcycle.


When you understand that one less person on a plane makes no difference because that plane is flying anyway, you will well on your way to understanding how stupid your comment is.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 227
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/22/2014 2:47:45 PM
Boy, you're just Mary Fvcking Sunshine aren't you.

Nowhere in my post did I say there was not an alternative to oil. Not once, not in any post. Nothing, zip, nada and so no error and not testy.

And don't assume I don't understand that one less person on the plane makes no difference, just pointing out the hypocrisy in folks like Suzuki. My opinion. You know, when you spend time trying to make people look stupid, you end up just looking stupid yourself, which is your MO, I get that. You pretty much get ignored anyway so it works out.
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 228
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/22/2014 3:00:46 PM

And don't assume I don't understand that one less person on the plane makes no difference, just pointing out the hypocrisy in folks like Suzuki.


Well if you do know that one less person in a plane makes no difference, then where is the hypocrisy?




You know, when you spend time trying to make people look stupid, you end up just looking stupid yourself, which is your MO, I get that.


This coming from the person that claims they will not buy and electric car because of a meme, really shows you are the smrt one in the room.

Please carry on.
 kj521
Joined: 8/8/2012
Msg: 229
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/22/2014 3:28:49 PM
"one less person in a plane makes no difference,"



Depends on what kind of difference you mean. :)
 MNSeeker
Joined: 9/19/2010
Msg: 230
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/22/2014 3:29:12 PM
Forget all of the pros and con of this issue. Think of the following question:
How long would it take to build this pipeline, who has to pay for it, and who will benefit?
Then think how much technology will change during construction to operational phase of the pipeline. I just read that Toyota is working on a hydrogen fuel cell car and wants to build service stations in California. Meanwhile BMW or Porsche claims to have the first ready to sell and drive production hydrogen fuel cell car.

This is today and what will the technology by the time the pipeline is finished?
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 231
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/22/2014 4:37:35 PM
And how's your electic car working for you smart azz? I only know two folks that own one - one rich retired guy in Vancouver who doesn't drive out of the greater Vanvouver area. And another wealthy lawyer that has one as a ""toy". Although both of these guys think their car is cool, both own Tesla's, both say they are impractical of travel unless they're just bopping around town.

If I could easily and quickly get from Vancouver to Calgary to see clients and if the car was cheaper, I'd consider it. It's just not practical for many.

The hypocrisy ? I could get behind Suzuki if he lived in 800 square foot co-op housing, shared a vehicle, and practiced what he preaches. He's a huge consumer, no different than anyone else...maybe worse. It's like marching in a rally supporting PETA and wearing leather boots.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 232
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/22/2014 6:01:01 PM

Much or most of the oil piped to Texas refineries is anticipated to be sold on the foreign market.
Which will be burned regardless of where it "lands". My problem with the whole thing is the pollution when mining it and then the triple pollution when burning it.

... the piping route goes through one of the largest reserves of fresh water in the world.
So what? The guys who got paid to support it don't care. They can afford to live out of range of the pipeline area so they don't care if the rest of us have safe drinking water.

So, while piping petroleum may be one of the safest methods of shipping, it is not without the risk or potential for spill.
It also goes through a lot of land we use for growing crops that we need since it not only feeds us, but a lot of others in the world.

And frankly, the spill record for Keystone 1 sucks.
Again, not the problem of those getting the big bucks for supporting it ... they can afford to buy food anywhere in the world so why do they care if the poorer people can't afford to feed themselves.
Message 231 ...
Msg 227: Well I think using Canadian crude would be safer, cheaper and longer lasting for the American people ...
Sure ... as long as we can make enough gas masks to go around for future generations. But I see it's likely not a concern for a person who has no children who might inhabit the world at a later date when there is no more fresh air to breathe because we crudded it all up with burning the highly noxious oil.
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 233
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/22/2014 6:39:26 PM
bluemoon....I agree with your posts and as far as that poster? You have handled him quite well. See, we can agree on things!
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 234
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/22/2014 10:07:27 PM
An electric care would be fine for me, but I can't afford one, I don't see a big difference between the pollution from making a gas engine and making huge batteries and plugging them in and using up all that electricity to run them. And I don't know the difference, there may be a big difference, but from my uneducated view, I don't see any. Making batteries is going to cause a big footprint, batteries and electricity don't just magically show up while someone is thumbing their nose at car that uses gas. I don't know when green is a reasonable idea or when it's just a different form of the same problem but you can sell some people all day long on an idea if you market it well. I do not know if changing one thing to fix something, will or will not cause an equal or larger problem. Many of these so-called better things are not really being implemented, they are just fodder to get votes for your side. George Bush Sr. took a lot of flack for saying we could be up to our necks in owls if we just willynilly save the owls. I tend to see it that way too, not that I want to lose the owls they were speaking of, but that I do not know if your answer is going to make things better. We could end up with electric cars everywhere and trying to work out all the problems they cause. The fact is as long as we live & breathe, even if we'd never made a gas engine at all, we'd still be polluting the hell out of our planet.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 235
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 2:46:47 AM
^^^^
Exactly,plus the batteries have to be disposed of.I guess the Halifax smartazz didn't bother reading the link to Germany's trillion dollar gamble on renewable.A trillion plus higher electricity rates which some businesses are fleeing from.Those turbines kill a lot of birds and bats as well.

Yeah,North America will make itself even more uncompetitive while China doesn't even turn on their scrubbers.
 Olwhatzhisname
Joined: 11/18/2014
Msg: 236
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 6:03:17 AM

I guess the Halifax smartazz didn't bother reading the link to Germany's trillion dollar gamble on renewable.A trillion plus higher electricity rates which some businesses are fleeing from.


Certain groups of people love to point to Germany leading the way via solar, & how they love to throw around the cherry-picked fact that Germany has 6000% more solar usage than the USA.

Sounds impressive, & its SUPPOSED to make you feel guilty.....kinda like the bogus claim that mining tar sands will cause 3X the pollution, yet we burn about 400 MILLION gallons of diesel fuel per year hauling this stuff in thousands of railroad tankers, rather than piping it through a pipeline.

I (nor my grandchildren)don't want to have to run around in gas masks due to the locomotive pollution caused by burning hundreds of millions of gallons of diesel fuel hauling this crude & spewing its thick exhaust throughout my town, let alone the chance of a railroad accident that would cause spills right here.

Anyhow, when you peel away the agendist blogsite factoid about Germany's solar, you see the real facts....what does "6000% more solar usuage than the USA" mean??


The German solar PV industry installed 7.5 GW in 2011,[2] and solar PV provided 18 TWh of electricity in 2011, about 3% of total electricity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany

If we just simply matched Germany, it would cost tens of billions of dollars initially, then tens of billions of dollars per year to maintain, and would account for less than 1% of our total production yet would nearly double everyone's electricity bills due to the exhorbitant cost of this not-nearly-perfected, highly expensive & technologically mediocre inefficient product . Way to sock it to the poor people, by doubling their utility bills.

Another multi-billion dollar goverment-subsidized program that would have virtually no impact whatsoever, other than making a few people feel good about going green while lining the bulging pockets certain selected congressmen/senators with lobby $$$ from these multi-national pet corporations(think SOLYNDRA).
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 237
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 8:31:10 AM

(think SOLYNDRA).


Yeah about that whole Solyndra thing, but hey do not let facts get in your way of showing everyone that you have no idea what you are talking about:


How Washington Bungled the Solyndra Story
The former head of the Energy Department loan program corrects the record.
By Lucia Graves

November 17, 2014 Most people have heard about the Solyndra program only in the context of scandal. And to hear Republicans yelling about it a few years ago, you'd think the Energy Department's loan guarantee program, which provided financing for Solyndra, was practically synonymous with failure.

And yet no smoking gun or any real evidence of "crony capitalism" ever emerged. Even the claim that the government was picking political losers was wrong in context. Solyndra represented just 1.3 percent of an otherwise strong portfolio, and now that message is coming home to roost. Last week, the department revealed its much-maligned loan program has started turning a profit and is on track to make taxpayers $5 billion or more, according a first-ever estimate of gains.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/can-we-finally-put-solyndra-to-bed-20141117


Exclusive: Controversial U.S. energy loan program has wiped out losses
By Nichola Groom
Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:02am EST

(Reuters) - The controversial government program that funded failed solar company Solyndra, and became a lighting rod in the 2012 presidential election, is officially in the black.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/13/us-doe-loans-idUSKCN0IX0A120141113?irpc=932
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 238
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 9:17:11 AM

The German solar PV industry installed 7.5 GW in 2011,[2] and solar PV provided 18 TWh of electricity in 2011, about 3% of total electricity.


Gee, it seems as though Germany doubled its PV electrical consumption since your the time of your old news:


In 2013, PV-generated power totaled 30 TWh [AGEB6] and covered approximately 5.7
percent of Germany’s net electricity consumption
(final energy, see section 20.8). Taken
as a whole, renewable energy (RE) accounted for 29 percent of net electricity consumption,

while the proportion of PV and total RE in Germany’s gross electricity consumption
stood at 5 percent and 25 percent respectively.
On sunny weekdays, PV power can at times cover 35 percent of the momentary electricity
demand, and on weekends and holidays up to 50 percent.
The total nominal power of PV installed in Germany rose to 35.7 GW, distributed over
1.4 million power plants, by the end of 2013 [BSW]. With this figure, the installed PV
capacity exceeds that of all other types of power plants in Germany.
 Olwhatzhisname
Joined: 11/18/2014
Msg: 239
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 9:23:26 AM

And yet no smoking gun or any real evidence of "crony capitalism" ever emerged.


Yeah about that whole Solyndra thing, but hey do not let facts get in your way of showing everyone that you have no idea what you are talking about:




Between January 2009 and June 2011, when it shuttered its federal lobbying operation, Solyndra spent $1.09 million on lobbying, according to research by the Center for Responsive Politics.

The company’s lobbying expenditures peaked in 2010 at $550,000, when it hired 11 federal lobbyists — all of whom had passed through the revolving door between government and the private sector at some point of their careers. In addition to in-house lobbyists, Solyndra also hired lobbyists from Mcallister & Quinn, McBee Strategic Consulting and Washington Tax Group.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/09/solar-company-solyndra-rising-star/

Crony capitalism at its finest, dumba$$ agendists not wearing their smart glasses. Another multi-billion dollar goverment-subsidized program that would have virtually no impact whatsoever, other than making a few people feel good about going green while lining the bulging pockets certain selected congressmen/senators with lobby $$$ from these multi-national pet corporations(think SOLYNDRA).


Gee, it seems as though Germany doubled its PV electrical consumption since your the time of your old news:


Good for them. Makes sense, since they have no virtually oil fields, no natural gas wells, & refuse to add more plants that generate nuclear electricity or burn coal. That is their only choice.

Again, considering Germany is about the size of Wisconson, & it has less than 1/4 the population of the US, if we matched Germany panel for panel, it still would supply less than ONE PERCENT(1%) of our electricity, & double the utility bills for poor Americans.

Considering that, the solar lobby $$$ would still find its way into the pockets of our elected officials to try to make it happen.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 240
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 9:29:05 AM
Continued drilling hasn't been the answer to our energy needs for decades, conservation has. Before Fuel injection became widely used in our autos technology existed for a carburetor to power a two ton Cadillac 70 MPG.

For us to even begin to move towards a multi puzzle piece cleaner energy solution there has to be a big loser, and that loser has to be big oil. But with patent acquisitions, nefarious speculators, Cheney's Haliburton trying to screw the Taliban on an Afghan Pipeline, etc., its clear big oil will not go down without a fight. As long as so many of us accept their deceitful "no easy solution" mantra we're going nowhere. The fact any sane, well meaning, and informed person knows is that REAL conservation would end our "crisis" in a relatively short period of time. Instead we continue to be discouraged from saving and to just keep consuming at all costs. That cost is something that ultimatelyonly benefits truly powerful special interest like big oil. Despite the disgusting, deceitful assertions of resource extraction interests we can indeed employ people with a ken to the future instead of the inane compulsion to continue the mistakes of our past.

The last stimulus, in response to the biggest financial crisis of our lifetime, was tiny in the opinion of most reputable economists. Just like Immigration all Republican leadership has had to do to get an energy bill to move forward is what they used to do before Bush 43 was elected, compromise and move to the middle where America has always thrived. If you think Dems haven't been open to compromise you're ingesting the drivel of propaganda. Remember when this Administration offered 10 bucks in spending cuts for every new dollar of revenue?

Why did Southern California tear down a world class public transportation system and replace it with freeways? Why do oil companies and manufacturers fight most every public transportation proposal out there? Why do we tolerate such obviously greedy conduct so obviously contrary to the public good? Because we let others do our "thinking" for us.

"Think! It's very Patriotic!" Especially when done critically.
 Olwhatzhisname
Joined: 11/18/2014
Msg: 241
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 9:37:58 AM
.....
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 242
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 11:10:25 AM
^^^^ Hey nipple guy, that's the best post you've had so far. Keep it up and maybe you won't get deleted again.

Msg. 242, John, every once in a blue moon stange things happen...maybe a solar flare or something...or Tis' the season.

I'm sort of confused regarding our "dirty" oil...what about the US production and use of coal? Those nice black smoke stacks puking out pollution look lovely on the landscape.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 243
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 11:54:02 AM
@DC #249

70 mpg caddies eh?.Make sure the power windows are all down to clear out the smoke in case you get stopped.
Water injection is good for minute improvements under controlled conditions.The diesel guys try messing with that,any droplets and the liners get scuffed in no time and you have your fancy truck at the dealer for a week.Check what CAT does with stationary gens,no water injection.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 244
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 12:11:29 PM
Calguy,

I am referring to gas engines of the early 1970s that worked quite well and cleanly with the carburetors that's patents were bought out and never brought to market. Kid in Minnesota wasn't the only one that came up with working technology that would have plummeted oil company profits.

Psyched for Keystone? Look at the horrible history of the Bakken Field in North Dakota:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/11/23/us/north-dakota-oil-boom-downside.html?emc=edit_th_20141123&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=35706076&_r=0
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 245
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 12:44:56 PM

Senate will vote for the pipeline in a couple months. Not to worry.



I personally hope so. Oil keeps a lot of my friends fed and in warm homes. More jobs are more jobs, for both countries.



And therein lies the biggest "reasoning" a lot of people have for the rape and pillaging that is going on in Northern Alberta. Kinda cool isn't it. $$$$$$$$ So we can keep our big homes warm so our fat bums can keep all comfy. Won't help if you can't breath the air, or drink the water will it. Basic needs. Kinder Morgan,(another one of those yank companies) have found many loop holes in their business actions to make sure they don't pay what they should using Canada's land to get what they want. So, we, as Canadians take the risk, and a tiny piece of the pie, and most of us are "happy" with it. Kinda like watching your Mom take it in the bum, though you still got 20 bucks in your hand. You would think you would be asking for more?????


People are getting less and less funny as each day passes.

Now, please carry on with this verbal diarrhea. It speaks volumes.
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 246
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 1:47:45 PM
You know Walt, I supported the loggers in B.C. too a number of years ago, about 15 years or so ago, when folks were b1tching about all the trees being cut down. I just asked "what is your house made of?" People who live in wooden houses shouldn't throw stones at loggers. The same applies to all of us who drive cars, heat our homes with gas, throw a trout on the bbq, etc.

As a child growing up on Vancouver Island pretty much 90% of the men I knew made their living with trees, including my father....cutting them, planting them, mills, pulp, etc. Then I lived in Alberta for years and a lot of my friends make their living in oil related businesses. Yes, oil keeps them warm, feeds their children and puts a roof over their heads.

I'm not a fool so I don't believe all the PR about doing the work cleaner, make it better on the environment, less damage to the land...but both the logging industry and the oil industry are trying and yes, they have a long, long way to go...they have to, too much b1tching from the public and too many eyes on them now. We, the people, need to keep hounding them to work cleaner and do a better job. Oil will not be replaced any time soon, your grandchildren and mine may well end up working in the oil industry and feeding their families. So hopefully, our verbal diarrhea will still help to make things better .
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 247
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 1:57:15 PM
The oil will still be moved no matter if by rail or pipeline, the pipeline is safer. We all want better ways but when you have some politicians like Hillary "wall street" Clinton, you will never see much change when money talks.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 248
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 2:12:51 PM
^^^^^^ It's the process. As with "logging" of yesteryear, "profit" is generated with how fast things can "get done". You should know, personally, that the loggers were the "last" in line to benefit from the raping of the island. A lot of wallets were filled on the backs of those loggers. And yes, I too know about the oil sands and it's ways. If I had accepted anyone of the offers I have had to go there, I would now be retired. I'm not, because I made a choice. Harper has now shoved NEB down on throats saying it is the process of which we have to follow, which is a joke in itself.

And no, the industry isn't "trying". If they were "trying" the poor lads in Edmonton a couple of years ago wouldn't have had to make the decision to override the valves(more than once) to shut off the Kalamazool. We had the technology that would/should have eliminated human error completely. But, that cost $$$$$$. The industry is just trying to
feed the PR machine, and it is slowly failing. Which sucks for them, cause they are scared if the "process" slows at all, the $$$$$$(profit) will not be as good as yesterday could have been. They know it's a race against time. Right now, Keystone is a biggie, cause BCers are causing enough havoc the path thru here has slowed down. I believe the numbers are 50,000 litres a day going doing south. With Keystone it would be something like 800,000 litres which would pump up production up in Northern Alberta by a third. The shiat show up there, is not ready to pump it up a third. Not "safely" anyways. But, hey it's all relative isn't it?

The crude isn't staying here!!!!! All I say, or should I say, ask, is why not slow it down a tad?Maybe even figure out how to refine(efficiently) and keep it here for North American use? Or is our part in the "global economy" so important?
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 249
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 3:04:11 PM
@Walts
They should be refining,I think you would have to point a gun at a politician to get a straight answer on that one
@DC
Hydrogen electrolyzers only work marginally,they allow a more complete burning of fuel.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 250
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History
Decision On Keystone XL Pipeline Delayed
Posted: 11/23/2014 6:15:31 PM
Message 245 ...
... yet we burn about 400 MILLION gallons of diesel fuel per year hauling this stuff in thousands of railroad tankers ...
As has been pointed out many times, that's just not true. LMAO ... no matter how many times this gets repeated, it won't make it so. It's the same kind of stuff this poster pulls in other threads. Nothing new.

... locomotive pollution caused by burning hundreds of millions of gallons of diesel fuel hauling this crude & spewing its thick exhaust throughout my town ...
If your profile is correct (this time) then that's still a lie because the trains that go through Columbus, Ohio are all electric. Oh dear ... I just blew all your lies and fake outrage. Too bad that what you write about it just is not true.

Message 251 ...

.....
^^^^ Hey nipple guy, that's the best post you've had so far. Keep it up and maybe you won't get deleted again.
He'd just come back as "someone else" in still a different town spewing the same lies.

Message 255 ...
Then I lived in Alberta for years and a lot of my friends make their living in oil related businesses. Yes, oil keeps them warm, feeds their children and puts a roof over their heads
Yes, it's a shame that such industries take advantage of people. They know people need to eat and keep a roof over their heads and they're suckers for the great money.

It's great money for them because we give the good old rich boys so many tax breaks and they make out like robbers because so many of us are such energy hogs. They're making money on both ends of the stick and laughing themselves to death all the way to the bank.

The people in the US are the biggest energy hogs in the world. The "dumbing down" of our nation by the teabaggers is paying off big time. They dumb the people down and teach them that there is no such thing as too much "air pollution" or "global warming" or "polluted waterways/oceans" and they just keep thinking of more and more ways to gobble up more and more energy.

We (the government) bails out an auto company and instead of investing that into building more energy-efficient vehicles, they turned around and built more fvcking gas guzzlers ... bigger, more thirsty cars and trucks. It's disgusting. Figures, "Dumb - Dumb" Bush makes a deal that eventually bogs the nation down with more pollution. When the government bails out a company that plays that big a role in "pollution", there should have been some stipulations on how that money is spent. How about putting it towards developing more "pollution-free" vehicles instead of bigger gas guzzlers?

I see (for example) Chrysler is about to double it's production of the 2015 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel ... apparently 1 in 5 trucks will be "Diesel" ...
Diesel exhaust is a complex mixture of thousands of gases and fine particles that contains more than 40 toxic air contaminants. These include cancer-causing substances such as benzene, arsenic and formaldehyde, as well as other seriously harmful pollutants.

The microscopic particles in diesel exhaust are less than one-fifth the thickness of a human hair, small enough to penetrate deep into the lungs and bloodstream, causing inflammation, asthma attacks, heart attacks and strokes, and worsening lung disease in the elderly and young. The World Health Organisation says long-term exposure to these particles — called PM2.5s because they are just two-and-a-half thousands of a millimetre across — alters the way children's brains grow and could make them less intelligent.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2617425/The-deadly-diesel-deception-We-bullied-buying-diesel-cars-help-fight-global-warming-Now-experts-say-green-fuel-killing-thousands-us.html#ixzz3Jwp2EFDa


Hmmm .... the perfect opportunity for the teabaggers to continue the dumbing down of our nation. If you can't "pollute" their minds with your stupid propaganda, then "pollute" their minds with the actual pollution.
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